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StonerPhReaK
AFK Inc.
410
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Posted - 2016.05.24 10:26:21 -
[61] - Quote
Text pvp is the most exhilarating form of pvp this game has to offer. This thread is proof.
Signatures wer cooler when we couldn't remove them completely.
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Mortlake
Devils Rejects 666
2121
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Posted - 2016.05.24 11:04:31 -
[62] - Quote
Not logging in is also pvp. To deprive one of a target, simply by not being there is practically the pinnacle of elite pew in EVE.
It truly is the art of fighting, without fighting.
Father to a murdered son. Husband to a murdered wife. Truth be told, I've been pretty unlucky.
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Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
1764
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Posted - 2016.05.24 12:06:54 -
[63] - Quote
Goddamn Nitshe threads, they're everywhere.
*turns on the firehose*
And yes, 'ganking'........aka......'ambushing'....is PVP. Guns get shot, ships blow up.
Next the damn carebears will be saying dropping a few dozen bombs on a drunkfleet sitting on a gate isn't PVP either......
"Oooooh, they didn't have a chance, the bombs, the evil bombs!!!"
Damn right they didn't have a chance. That's the whole point.
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
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ISD Fractal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1179
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Posted - 2016.05.24 13:16:17 -
[64] - Quote
Quote:34. Posting of inappropriate content is prohibited.
The posting of pornography, discriminatory remarks which are sexually explicit, harmful, threatening, abusive, defamatory, obscene, hateful, racially or ethnically offensive as well as excessive obscene or vulgar language, posts which discuss or illustrate illegal activity, or an instance of providing links to sites that contain any of the aforementioned is strictly prohibited on the EVE Online forums. I have removed a post for violating the above rule.
ISD Fractal
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2875
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Posted - 2016.05.24 13:35:34 -
[65] - Quote
Mike Adoulin wrote:Goddamn Nitshe threads, they're everywhere. *turns on the firehose* And yes, 'ganking'........aka......'ambushing'....is PVP. Guns get shot, ships blow up. Next the damn carebears will be saying dropping a few dozen bombs on a drunkfleet sitting on a gate isn't PVP either...... "Oooooh, they didn't have a chance, the bombs, the evil bombs!!!" Damn right they didn't have a chance. That's the whole point.
Pretty much this.
So your ship doesn't have guns, big deal. You have situational awareness. When flying unarmed your PVP objective is to not explode. It's not like you can't do anything about it. Simply not being there when the people who want to widen your orifices arrive is a win. You just pvp'd. Each player in each given circumstance has to define for themselves what 'winning' means.
If you fly blind into dangerous areas or AFK anywhere in space you are pretty much dropping trow and offering content to anyone who feels the urge to create it. Hell, I've done it myself in the past several times... I flew haulers into lowsex and nullsex areas without scouting and got my shizzle pushed in. It was MY fault for not taking measures to ensure my own safety. The guys who sploded me, they were just dying for someone to shoot at and I gave it to them.
So, yeah... gankers are pvp pilots as well. You don't win by blowing their ships up, that's gonna happen anyways. You win the pvp battle with them by NOT DYING. Use your brain, use your tools and don't fly around with most of your worldly possessions on your person and you can do just fine. Derps who don't get this don't deserve sympathy, they deserve what they get.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2996
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Posted - 2016.05.24 13:38:01 -
[66] - Quote
you dont put gloves on a toddler throw him in the ring with mike tyson and call it boxing
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID
Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
15968
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Posted - 2016.05.24 13:46:47 -
[67] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:you dont put gloves on a toddler throw him in the ring with mike tyson and call it boxing you don't watch toddler boxing?!
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Mortlake
Devils Rejects 666
2124
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Posted - 2016.05.24 13:59:03 -
[68] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Lan Wang wrote:you dont put gloves on a toddler throw him in the ring with mike tyson and call it boxing you don't watch toddler boxing?!
Mate. Three words.
Elderly jelly wrestling.
Yeah boy. You know you want to.
Father to a murdered son. Husband to a murdered wife. Truth be told, I've been pretty unlucky.
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Mortlake
Devils Rejects 666
2124
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Posted - 2016.05.24 14:00:06 -
[69] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:you dont put gloves on a toddler throw him in the ring with mike tyson and call it boxing
My six year old would whine him to death easily, before he got half way across the ring.
Father to a murdered son. Husband to a murdered wife. Truth be told, I've been pretty unlucky.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
15969
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Posted - 2016.05.24 14:04:25 -
[70] - Quote
Mortlake wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Lan Wang wrote:you dont put gloves on a toddler throw him in the ring with mike tyson and call it boxing you don't watch toddler boxing?! Mate. Three words. Elderly jelly wrestling. Yeah boy. You know you want to. no mort , i know you want to though
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Mortlake
Devils Rejects 666
2126
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Posted - 2016.05.24 14:43:53 -
[71] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Mortlake wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Lan Wang wrote:you dont put gloves on a toddler throw him in the ring with mike tyson and call it boxing you don't watch toddler boxing?! Mate. Three words. Elderly jelly wrestling. Yeah boy. You know you want to. no mort , i know you want to though
I'm not ashamed to admit that I do, Ralph. We have closed groups but I have some influence. You're welcome to join us at any time.
Father to a murdered son. Husband to a murdered wife. Truth be told, I've been pretty unlucky.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
15970
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Posted - 2016.05.24 15:18:12 -
[72] - Quote
not touching that mort, not with a latex glove on someone else's hand.
interesting thought just popped into my head though, would the toddler boxing match be considered fair if say someone were to enter a pack of twins ? i say pack deliberately now, my two hunt in tandem its scary.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
36
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Posted - 2016.05.24 15:33:18 -
[73] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:you dont put gloves on a toddler throw him in the ring with mike tyson and call it boxing
In the late 90s ( possibly a bit earlier) there was a big movement to switch from traditional child raising to the new fad of no corporal punishment and positive reinforcement. Psychologists ( who ironically never raised kids) said positive reinforcement was better and that negative reinforcement could hurt the childs development.
This lead to many unintended negative consequences:
1) 18 year olds in the 1940s signed up to go to almost certain death to defend their country and those that live in it. 18 yr olds today need a safe place when their feelings get hurt.
2) The children, for the most part didnt learn consequences of their actions. They only knew if i do good i get rewarded, if i do bad or nothing, i dont get a reward. The realities of real life hit them hard. They whine and cry and complain and moan when they dont get their way because they dont understand how real life is which leads me to the next one.
3) Those young people today are the most confused of any generation that has come before them. They are confused by everything even their gender and made up a whole bunch of new gender types to try to describe it.
4) They want more for doing less. They dont understand things like hard work and ambition. Their version of ambition is protesting because mc donalds doesnt pay as good as skilled jobs.
Older generations are worried about the newer generations. Here in the US they havent been "hardened up" by their parents. So they get picked on at school, go home get a gun go to school and shoot a bunch of school mates. School shootings have went up exponentially the last 10 years.
That is the affect when you remove negative reinforcement from child development. Your not preparing them for life. Their is no controlled "hardening up". Then reality finally hits them and all kinds of crazy stuff happens.
Same with eve. You dont introduce them to the harshness of eve a little at a time and first high sec becomes carebear land then lowsec and finally null. Carebears get a foothold in highsec and they start their whining about "how hard it is". Under pressure CCP makes it easier and easier in high sec. Which only attracts more carebears. CCP becomes the enabling parent instead of the discipline teaching parent. Letting the kids dictate the rules.
Now only consensual pvp is allowed in high sec. No ganking, no scamming, and no stealing of loot. Wardecs must be approved by both parties.
The carebears push further. Now lowsec is consensual pvp only, but you are allowed to steal others loot. No pvp is allowed in highsec cause some carebears turn it on accidentally. No wardecs in highsec either as it interferes with carebears abilities to do mining and missions even when they arent involved. High sec pve now pays almost as good null with virtually no risk.
Little more time progresses. Now lowsec is just a version of high but with tougher rats. No pvp allowed here. Any ship lost in highsec for any reason is now automatically replaced as soon as you dock with all the fittings right down to the 1627 caldari scourge cruise missiles you had on board automatically. No need to file a ticket and wait. You can only take space in null from others by wardeccing them. cloaks are only allowed in W-space. Items on the market have lost a quarter of their value. You can now by a rattlesnake for about 375 million. Skill injectors? T2 mods are almost considered as worthless as T1 now.
More time passes. Need more room for carebears. ALL K-space is no pvp. Instead we will have battleground systems for those that want to pvp. Fights in these systems will be fairly evenly matched based on ship types and sizes and skill levels. The winners will be rewarded with special currency that can used to by "pvp gear"...gear that has a bonus when used against other players but is almost completely ineffective against rats. W-space now has local pvp is consensual. Its the only place you can kill another player outside of battleground and only with their permission. The market has tanked. You can buy a rattlesnake for 100 million now. veldspar will bring you 0.05 isk per unit. Freighters are a mere 250 million.
to combat these problems CCP moved all complexes and sites to highsec. 11/30-20/30 DED plexes were added to lowsec. and 21/30-30/30 DED to null. The new plexes require special unique abilities to progress such as you have to sensor damping this rat, hack that can, use missiles on this while using lasers on that one. Meaning you need a group of specific ships that all do specific tasks at specific times to proceed. Its no longer called plexing, its now called raiding. The "raids" are static and you are allowed to do each one once a day .the rewards are very powerful pve ships and mods! Ships that have such bonuses as 100% damage bonus against sansha.
Welcome to WoW in space.
Catering and coddling of carebears in a pvp game is like catering and coddling of children, Its going to turn out bad for everyone later. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2998
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Posted - 2016.05.24 15:42:16 -
[74] - Quote
i dont really know what thats gotta do with this conversation, im not against ganking in the slightest i just dont consider it pvp
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID
Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
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Nitshe Razvedka
846
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Posted - 2016.05.24 16:20:11 -
[75] - Quote
Mike Adoulin wrote:Goddamn Nitshe threads, they're everywhere. *turns on the firehose* And yes, 'ganking'........aka......'ambushing'....is PVP. Guns get shot, ships blow up. Next the damn carebears will be saying dropping a few dozen bombs on a drunkfleet sitting on a gate isn't PVP either...... "Oooooh, they didn't have a chance, the bombs, the evil bombs!!!" Damn right they didn't have a chance. That's the whole point.
Talking about fire hoses, Mike, you need a good enema to clean those gerbils. Das hamsters are smelling like crap. Let them out occasionally to see some daylight. Uranus is too far from the sun to count.
Ganking not PvP; Run back to Jim Jones for a new mantra. Your current script is obsolete like Code.
Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS.
Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.
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Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
1768
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Posted - 2016.05.24 16:51:31 -
[76] - Quote
Nitshe Razvedka wrote:yawn
*munches sandwich*
Hmmm?
Oh yeah.
You're the guy everybody ignores.
Vimsy, you know you aren't supposed to respond to the idiots, it just makes them feel special.
*goes back to munching his sandwich*
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
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Dom Arkaral
Axios
447
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Posted - 2016.05.24 16:51:55 -
[77] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:i dont really know what thats gotta do with this conversation, im not against ganking in the slightest i just dont consider it pvp then why are you here? you're losing any credibility you ever had by being a zombie repeating the same crap over and over...
your description is way too accurate lol, it's almost scary
Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r
Gł+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser
Gł+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
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Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
1768
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Posted - 2016.05.24 16:53:24 -
[78] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:i dont really know what thats gotta do with this conversation, im not against ganking in the slightest i just dont consider it pvp
Then you'd be wrong.
By your 'logic', pipebombing must not be PVP either.
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
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Nitshe Razvedka
850
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Posted - 2016.05.24 17:24:30 -
[79] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:[ Biggest Off Topic War n Peace novel this morning .
I feel ya Roenoky, always said you guys were girls blouses. Man of you to admit it.
Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS.
Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.
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Exaido
Fire Over Light
9
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Posted - 2016.05.24 17:33:53 -
[80] - Quote
Ganking being permissible and therefore PvP is a logic trap.
"All cats are mammals. Therefore all mammals are cats."
The definition hinges on your concept of 'versus' which doesn't presume context, it presumes the ability to present opposition. Ganking is a scenario, with the party being attacked cannot present any meaningful opposition against the attacking force.
That players are free to attack another player, more or less at anytime (with degree of repercussion depending on security status / sector), allows for ganking to occur, and ganking to be a viable game mechanic.
Ganking is Players Attacking Players (PaP) and that's fine. It's a form of warfare without 'rules of engagement' which is also fine because that is the Eve universe. But to call it PvP implies it is something other than a soft-target. |
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Exaido
Fire Over Light
9
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Posted - 2016.05.24 17:42:53 -
[81] - Quote
I should add, I have no issue with the presence of 'ganking', it makes the game more interesting, and the risk of ganking makes people better pilots, for those that don't rage quit.
There's even a branch of 'ganking' that I would respect, that is targeting the 'soft-targets' of enemies in war-dec or the like to break their supply-chains; that's good tactics. I might not even consider that 'ganking' because it requires coordination, targeting and study of the enemy.
But this likely isn't the ganking that we're talking about. |
Nitshe Razvedka
850
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Posted - 2016.05.24 17:43:12 -
[82] - Quote
Mike Adoulin wrote:Nitshe Razvedka wrote:yawn *munches sandwich* Hmmm? Oh yeah. You're the guy everybody ignores. Vimsy, you know you aren't supposed to respond to the idiots, it just makes them feel special. *goes back to munching his sandwich*
Vimsy aint gunna help ya Mike Hunt Adoulin. She's stamped her petite little foot n huffed off.
Now if you were ignoring me you would not have mentioned my name as you entered the thread. Logical as your ganking definitions.
Let me put a steamer in there so you can munch down again. Enjoy you lunch break.
Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS.
Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.
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Dom Arkaral
Axios
447
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Posted - 2016.05.24 17:43:43 -
[83] - Quote
Exaido wrote:Ganking being permissible and therefore PvP is a logic trap.
"All cats are mammals. Therefore all mammals are cats."
The definition hinges on your concept of 'versus' which doesn't presume context, it presumes the ability to present opposition. Ganking is a scenario, with the party being attacked cannot present any meaningful opposition against the attacking force.
That players are free to attack another player, more or less at anytime (with degree of repercussion depending on security status / sector), allows for ganking to occur, and ganking to be a viable game mechanic.
Ganking is Players Attacking Players (PaP) and that's fine. It's a form of warfare without 'rules of engagement' which is also fine because that is the Eve universe. But to call it PvP implies it is something other than a soft-target. What is pvp? Player versus player What is ganking? Player versus player What is pve? Player versus environment.
Ganking is a subset of PvP. So it's safe to say that all ganking is pvp. But pvp is not always ganking. ganking definition
Quote:Ganking is the process in which a group of charecters gang up on one or more players that do not have a chance to defend themselves Ganking happens in all area of spaces. So does PvP.
So; Ganking=/=PvP =false If PvP=Player_versus_Player
Kthxbai
Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r
Gł+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser
Gł+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
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Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
1772
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Posted - 2016.05.24 17:47:48 -
[84] - Quote
Anything can be 'ganked', soft target or not.
The Veldnaught could be ganked. Skiffs with over 120,000 EHP are ganked.
It's just a matter of bringing enough alpha strike damage.
In all cases, target is attacked, and either target explodes, or doesn't. In hisec, CONCORD kills the attackers, who most definitely explode. Unless reasons.......
Shots are fired, ships explode.
Welcome to PVP. You undock from a station, you can be attacked, whether you like it or not, wardec or not.
So-called 'non-combat ships' have numerous ways to defend themselves, ranging from being aware of their surroundings to armor, shields, EW, bulkheads, speed, cloaking, among others.
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
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Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
232
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Posted - 2016.05.24 17:49:18 -
[85] - Quote
Exaido wrote:Ganking is Players Attacking Players (PaP) and that's fine. It's a form of warfare without 'rules of engagement' which is also fine because that is the Eve universe. But to call it PvP implies it is something other than a soft-target. What... the... ****? I don't even. What? Are we just throwing random words together and calling them terms now?
Players Attacking Players (PaP) is not even a thing. But I guess it is hard to argue with someone, who can just come up with random terms on the fly in order to support their arguments.
Gotta love them internet arguments. |
Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
1772
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Posted - 2016.05.24 17:51:45 -
[86] - Quote
Nitshe Razvedka wrote:yawns
You're going to have to speak louder.
I don't think anybody is listening to you.
And aren't you a Holeysheet alt?
Funny how he gets (hopefully) permabanned from the forums and you pop up again.
I believe using another alt to avoid a forum ban is in itself a bannable offense.
Can we get an ISD to confirm this ain't Holy?
*makes another sandwich*
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
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Exaido
Fire Over Light
9
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Posted - 2016.05.24 18:04:37 -
[87] - Quote
Maekchu wrote:Exaido wrote:Ganking is Players Attacking Players (PaP) and that's fine. It's a form of warfare without 'rules of engagement' which is also fine because that is the Eve universe. But to call it PvP implies it is something other than a soft-target. What... the... ****? I don't even. What? Are we just throwing random words together and calling them terms now? Players Attacking Players (PaP) is not even a thing. But I guess it is hard to argue with someone, who can just come up with random terms on the fly in order to support their arguments. Gotta love them internet arguments.
The actual term for Eve Player Combat would be called: 'Free For All'. |
Dom Arkaral
Axios
448
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Posted - 2016.05.24 18:12:54 -
[88] - Quote
Exaido wrote:Maekchu wrote:Exaido wrote:Ganking is Players Attacking Players (PaP) and that's fine. It's a form of warfare without 'rules of engagement' which is also fine because that is the Eve universe. But to call it PvP implies it is something other than a soft-target. What... the... ****? I don't even. What? Are we just throwing random words together and calling them terms now? Players Attacking Players (PaP) is not even a thing. But I guess it is hard to argue with someone, who can just come up with random terms on the fly in order to support their arguments. Gotta love them internet arguments. The actual term for Eve Player Combat would be called: 'Free For All'. No.
PvP
Holy mama we have some speshul bears in here that don't understand the simplest definition
Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r
Gł+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser
Gł+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
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Nitshe Razvedka
850
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Posted - 2016.05.24 18:14:49 -
[89] - Quote
Mike Adoulin wrote:Nitshe Razvedka wrote:yawns You're going to have to speak louder. I don't think anybody is listening to you. And aren't you a Holeysheet alt? Funny how he gets (hopefully) permabanned from the forums and you pop up again. I believe using another alt to avoid a forum ban is in itself a bannable offense. Can we get an ISD to confirm this ain't Holy? *makes another sandwich*
Sounds like the hamster life style has got you all buthurt Mikey.
No need taking it out on me. Ignoring me is good, so is the cold-sholder.
But, what you did is what we call a self-inflicted wound.
Suggest you dock up and see a proctologist in the next space station.
Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS.
Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.
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Exaido
Fire Over Light
9
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Posted - 2016.05.24 18:21:23 -
[90] - Quote
Dom Arkaral wrote:Exaido wrote:Maekchu wrote:Exaido wrote:Ganking is Players Attacking Players (PaP) and that's fine. It's a form of warfare without 'rules of engagement' which is also fine because that is the Eve universe. But to call it PvP implies it is something other than a soft-target. What... the... ****? I don't even. What? Are we just throwing random words together and calling them terms now? Players Attacking Players (PaP) is not even a thing. But I guess it is hard to argue with someone, who can just come up with random terms on the fly in order to support their arguments. Gotta love them internet arguments. The actual term for Eve Player Combat would be called: 'Free For All'. No. PvP Holy mama we have some speshul bears in here that don't understand the simplest definition
That criticism cuts both ways. The definition of 'PvP' versus 'Ganking' depends on 'your' definition of the term 'vs'. For me that implies opposition or context, a war-dec for example provides context.
Eve is the rare instance of a game, where 'ganking' is not a dissuaded dynamic, as in most other games it is mitigated by GMs or programmatically, to deter a kill where the opponent cannot present opposition.
By no means, am I saying, 'Ganking' is not a valid form of play-style. Though, CCPs changes to bumping in many senses proves, that a Gank where the player has no means of escape - is not PVP - which makes my point about resistance and PVP.
The best counter-argument to mine, is the one that people can provide defense against the gank through their fit - that's a good point, and it's how I fit my freighters, it's why I use blockade runners through Udema.
'Speshul' people can't discuss a definition, whereas I'm perfectly comfortable talking through a notion and gaining perspective, and accept that fit is a form of resistance to a gank.
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