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Hysidee Black Avatar Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.02.26 10:45:00 - [1] Hi guys After looking at the various different Motherships and there bonus's, i noticed a bonus on the nyx that the others dont get. The Nyx has a 10% bonus to fighters damage compared to the thanatos 5% bonus. Fair enough, it is a mothership after all, but i then noticed that the other motherships unique bonus is the same as there carrier counterparts (Wyvern and Aeon still have 5% bonus to resistances, and the hell has the same 5% reduction to transfers). Surely the other Motherships should have a slight boost to there unique bonus's or thge nyx should have its bonus reduced to the same as the thanatos?
Chronus26 Gallente Vale Heavy Industries SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.26 10:48:00 - [2] Originally by: Hysidee Hi guys After looking at the various different Motherships and there bonus's, i noticed a bonus on the nyx that the others dont get. The Nyx has a 10% bonus to fighters damage compared to the thanatos 5% bonus. Fair enough, it is a mothership after all, but i then noticed that the other motherships unique bonus is the same as there carrier counterparts (Wyvern and Aeon still have 5% bonus to resistances, and the hell has the same 5% reduction to transfers). Surely the other Motherships should have a slight boost to there unique bonus's or thge nyx should have its bonus reduced to the same as the thanatos? Its probably another typo. The Thanatos' bonus used to say 10% per level when it was really 5%. Its fixed now, maybe the Nyx got overlooked. Anyway, I'd much rather have 5% extra resists than 10% Extra drone damage anyway. -----
Hysidee Black Avatar Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.02.26 10:51:00 - [3] Originally by: Chronus26 Originally by: Hysidee Hi guys After looking at the various different Motherships and there bonus's, i noticed a bonus on the nyx that the others dont get. The Nyx has a 10% bonus to fighters damage compared to the thanatos 5% bonus. Fair enough, it is a mothership after all, but i then noticed that the other motherships unique bonus is the same as there carrier counterparts (Wyvern and Aeon still have 5% bonus to resistances, and the hell has the same 5% reduction to transfers). Surely the other Motherships should have a slight boost to there unique bonus's or thge nyx should have its bonus reduced to the same as the thanatos? Its probably another typo. The Thanatos' bonus used to say 10% per level when it was really 5%. Its fixed now, maybe the Nyx got overlooked. Anyway, I'd much rather have 5% extra resists than 10% Extra drone damage anyway. That i'm not debating, but for the Aeon and Wyvern maybe an increase in there resistance bonus (say 7.5%) would bring it back in line with the Nyx if that isnt a typo?
Pinky Denmark	Posted - 2007.02.26 11:57:00 - [4] Yeah sure - but wouldn't that make them much easier to tank and benefit much more than the increased fighterpower?
Gorion Wassenar Caldari Tsurokigaarai	Posted - 2007.02.26 12:20:00 - [5] I hate the carriers because they contradict the Prime fiction of this game. Caldari fighters was what allowed the Caldari state to cede from the Federation. Linkage "..the Gallente ships orbiting Caldari Prime were large and cumbersome, little more than shooting platforms ideal for orbital bombardment. The Caldari hoped their small, fast one-man fighters would run circles around the Gallente ships." Linkage "The Caldari were getting ever bolder and every few months they seemed to have a new and improved version of their nimble solo-fighters, which the Federation had few answers against." "Everything the Gallenteans tried failed - their attempts for their own solo-fighters were utter failure" "It seemed like every time the Gallenteans came up with something sleek and speedy and powerful the Caldari would soon respond with something even sleeker and more powerful." What the Federation did to counter fighters, much as it is today, is to use drones. Gallente drones should be rightfully the best, but their fighters should not. The Thanatos's and Nyx's drone damage bonus should not apply to fighters. If anything the Caldari Chimera and Wyvern should have the fighter damage bonus.... ----- results may vary
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.26 12:31:00 - [6] You know.. you are completely right! Fighters are supposed to be caldari not gallente thing!!! If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Chronus26 Gallente Vale Heavy Industries SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.26 12:31:00 - [7] Edited by: Chronus26 on 26/02/2007 12:29:02 Originally by: Gorion Wassenar I hate the carriers because they contradict the Prime fiction of this game. Caldari fighters was what allowed the Caldari state to cede from the Federation. Linkage "..the Gallente ships orbiting Caldari Prime were large and cumbersome, little more than shooting platforms ideal for orbital bombardment. The Caldari hoped their small, fast one-man fighters would run circles around the Gallente ships." Linkage "The Caldari were getting ever bolder and every few months they seemed to have a new and improved version of their nimble solo-fighters, which the Federation had few answers against." "Everything the Gallenteans tried failed - their attempts for their own solo-fighters were utter failure" "It seemed like every time the Gallenteans came up with something sleek and speedy and powerful the Caldari would soon respond with something even sleeker and more powerful." What the Federation did to counter fighters, much as it is today, is to use drones. Gallente drones should be rightfully the best, but their fighters should not. The Thanatos's and Nyx's drone damage bonus should not apply to fighters. If anything the Caldari Chimera and Wyvern should have the fighter damage bonus.... Well, my understanding of RP fiction of the game is probably not as good as yours, but the way I see it: The Caldari developed the technology of Fighters. To counter it, the Gallente developed drone technology. As the war progressed, the Caldari moved on from fighters, developing new technologies and ships based around them. Ie. Missles, Electronic warfare... Leading the Caldari pretty much to where they are today. The Gallente on the other hand chose to embrace drone technology as opposed to abbandoning it, and developed it further as a weapon. The years they spent researching and develping drones while the Caldari worked on other things now gives them the upper hand when constructing Fighters and Carriers. Just because sombody invents a technology, does not neccisarily mean they will always be the masters of it. If you get my point. If the game was set during the Gallente-Caldari war, you'd probably be right. However I believe it was supposed to have occured many many years ago, and times have changed. -----
Zyrtan Keb'Lektar 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.02.26 12:41:00 - [8] You can fit a scary, really really scary tank on an Aeon. Increasing the resist bonus would bring it totally out of balance. It easyly tanks 12000-15000 dps and well...and that without taking the armor resistance gangmod (or any other gangreleated gangmodules) in account. nyx dmg bonus is nice but nobody fields a mothership over a carrier in combat just for the 5% fighter dmg per level. -----------
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2007.02.26 14:03:00 - [9] if we're talking cost/dps efficiency nothing will beat the noobship
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.26 14:54:00 - [10] Originally by: Zyrtan Keb'Lektar You can fit a scary, really really scary tank on an Aeon. Increasing the resist bonus would bring it totally out of balance. It easyly tanks 12000-15000 dps and well...and that without taking the armor resistance gangmod (or any other gangreleated gangmodules) in account. nyx dmg bonus is nice but nobody fields a mothership over a carrier in combat just for the 5% fighter dmg per level. The resist gang mod is stacking penalized vs armor hardeners. A heavily tanked capital ship is likely to get a small fraction of a point increase in resistances, if any. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Chronus26 Gallente Vale Heavy Industries SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.26 14:56:00 - [11] Originally by: Hllaxiu Originally by: Zyrtan Keb'Lektar You can fit a scary, really really scary tank on an Aeon. Increasing the resist bonus would bring it totally out of balance. It easyly tanks 12000-15000 dps and well...and that without taking the armor resistance gangmod (or any other gangreleated gangmodules) in account. nyx dmg bonus is nice but nobody fields a mothership over a carrier in combat just for the 5% fighter dmg per level. The resist gang mod is stacking penalized vs armor hardeners. A heavily tanked capital ship is likely to get a small fraction of a point increase in resistances, if any. A small increase in Resists is better than no increse in resists. Never look a gift horse in the mouth. -----
JForce N.W.A Soldiers of the Forgotten Abyss	Posted - 2007.02.26 15:11:00 - [12] All I know is that MINMATAR CARRIERS AND MOTHERSHIPS NEED THEIR **** SORTED
Gorion Wassenar Caldari Tsurokigaarai	Posted - 2007.02.26 15:50:00 - [13] Edited by: Gorion Wassenar on 26/02/2007 15:47:28 Originally by: Chronus26 Well, my understanding of RP fiction of the game is probably not as good as yours, but the way I see it: The Caldari developed the technology of Fighters. To counter it, the Gallente developed drone technology. As the war progressed, the Caldari moved on from fighters, developing new technologies and ships based around them. Ie. Missles, Electronic warfare... Leading the Caldari pretty much to where they are today. The Gallente on the other hand chose to embrace drone technology as opposed to abbandoning it, and developed it further as a weapon. The years they spent researching and develping drones while the Caldari worked on other things now gives them the upper hand when constructing Fighters and Carriers. Just because sombody invents a technology, does not neccisarily mean they will always be the masters of it. If you get my point. If the game was set during the Gallente-Caldari war, you'd probably be right. However I believe it was supposed to have occured many many years ago, and times have changed. I would love to see a nation willingly give up a military asset where they had the edge so to speak. Until I see it written as prime fiction that the Caldari State did that I'm calling BS. An considering that the Caldari navy have been described as "The strategic doctrine of the Caldari Navy is simple: to be able to defeat any other navy in the world. Most experts believe it is." While the Federation Navy, the makers/users of the Thanatos and Nyx is described as "The Federation Navy has seen better days, since the end of the war with the Caldari and the thawing in relations with the Amarrians the budget for the Navy has been slashed severely. It still relies on its drone armada to defeat opponents, but ship wise the Federal Navy is lacking." Note it says drones not fighters and I seriously doubt that a navy with a slashed budget will have the most elite equipment. ----- results may vary
Andreya	Posted - 2007.02.26 15:55:00 - [14] all motherships are unbalanced untill they are scrammable :P
Prophetic Gallente Homeworld Technologies	Posted - 2007.02.26 15:57:00 - [15] Originally by: JForce All I know is that MINMATAR CARRIERS AND MOTHERSHIPS NEED THEIR **** SORTED Titan too tbh. Try fitting a shield tank on that thing. It's severely gimped in cpu.
Chronus26 Gallente Vale Heavy Industries SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.26 16:07:00 - [16] Originally by: Gorion Wassenar Edited by: Gorion Wassenar on 26/02/2007 15:47:28 Originally by: Chronus26 Well, my understanding of RP fiction of the game is probably not as good as yours, but the way I see it: The Caldari developed the technology of Fighters. To counter it, the Gallente developed drone technology. As the war progressed, the Caldari moved on from fighters, developing new technologies and ships based around them. Ie. Missles, Electronic warfare... Leading the Caldari pretty much to where they are today. The Gallente on the other hand chose to embrace drone technology as opposed to abbandoning it, and developed it further as a weapon. The years they spent researching and develping drones while the Caldari worked on other things now gives them the upper hand when constructing Fighters and Carriers. Just because sombody invents a technology, does not neccisarily mean they will always be the masters of it. If you get my point. If the game was set during the Gallente-Caldari war, you'd probably be right. However I believe it was supposed to have occured many many years ago, and times have changed. I would love to see a nation willingly give up a military asset where they had the edge so to speak. Until I see it written as prime fiction that the Caldari State did that I'm calling BS. An considering that the Caldari navy have been described as "The strategic doctrine of the Caldari Navy is simple: to be able to defeat any other navy in the world. Most experts believe it is." While the Federation Navy, the makers/users of the Thanatos and Nyx is described as "The Federation Navy has seen better days, since the end of the war with the Caldari and the thawing in relations with the Amarrians the budget for the Navy has been slashed severely. It still relies on its drone armada to defeat opponents, but ship wise the Federal Navy is lacking." Note it says drones not fighters and I seriously doubt that a navy with a slashed budget will have the most elite equipment. Correct me if im wrong, but wern't combat drones developed as a counter to the Caldari FIghters, and were eventually succesfull in doing so? The fact that your enemy has managed to counter your most effective weapon seems like a good enough reason to look for somthing new to me. A slashed budget wouldn't neccisarily mean sub-standard equipment. It's possible they choose to maintain a much smaller fleets while still affording modern hardwares. -----
Gorion Wassenar Caldari Tsurokigaarai	Posted - 2007.02.26 16:13:00 - [17] Edited by: Gorion Wassenar on 26/02/2007 16:09:59 And how does that retroactively make the Gallente Fighters, carriers, and motherships do more fighter damage? It still leaves PF wise the Caldari with the best fighters countered though they are by drones. ----- results may vary
Chronus26 Gallente Vale Heavy Industries SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.26 16:19:00 - [18] Originally by: Gorion Wassenar Edited by: Gorion Wassenar on 26/02/2007 16:09:59 And how does that retroactively make the Gallente Fighters, carriers, and motherships do more fighter damage? It still leaves PF wise the Caldari with the best fighters countered though they are by drones. Although thay are not drone per-say, it is possible that many technologies developed by the Gallente for there drones could be adapted for use on their Fighters in order to give them an upper hand. -----
Gorion Wassenar Caldari Tsurokigaarai	Posted - 2007.02.26 16:24:00 - [19] So it comes down to "what counts as a drone?" That, unfortunately, can only be illuminated by CCP. I'm just of the mind that if the Gallente are the new holders of the best fighters write a fricking cron telling telling us! Otherwise I'm going to be staunchly objecting to the current "dominance" Gallente carriers and motherships due to their fighters. ----- results may vary
Chronus26 Gallente Vale Heavy Industries SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.26 16:37:00 - [20] Originally by: Gorion Wassenar So it comes down to "what counts as a drone?" That, unfortunately, can only be illuminated by CCP. I'm just of the mind that if the Gallente are the new holders of the best fighters write a fricking cron telling telling us! Otherwise I'm going to be staunchly objecting to the current "dominance" Gallente carriers and motherships due to their fighters. I guess it does. Although the 'dominance' of Gallente Carriers is a matter of oppinion... for a while everybody was running around exclaiming that there was no reason to fly anything but Gallente carriers, a lot of people listened to this and trained Gallente Carriers over another race. Many -like myself- fly exclusivly Gallente and enjoy flying drone-boats. Logically the next step is to fly a carrier. This probably accounts for the fact that there are many more Gallente Carrier pilots than the other races, but it in no way means the Gallente Carriers are 'the best'. The one major point the Gallente carriers have over the other races is drone bay size. This is something I don't particularly agree with myself. I'd like to see the other three races get a drone bay of equal size to Gallente. That would probably go a step towards better balancing carriers in relation to each other overall. -----
Waagaa Ktlehr Amarr Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.02.26 16:42:00 - [21] I wouldn't trade my Aeon for a Nyx. I like seeing a sieged dread wreck me for under 1k. :) - - One ship to jam them all, one ship to damp them. One ship to suck them dry and in the dark void gank them.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2007.02.27 02:38:00 - [22] Originally by: Chronus26 Correct me if im wrong, but wern't combat drones developed as a counter to the Caldari FIghters, and were eventually succesfull in doing so? The fact that your enemy has managed to counter your most effective weapon seems like a good enough reason to look for somthing new to me. A slashed budget wouldn't neccisarily mean sub-standard equipment. It's possible they choose to maintain a much smaller fleets while still affording modern hardwares. The Caldari created frigates to counter drones. As we can see, the Gallente still love their drones. And given that fighters simply wtfpwnd larger ships, there's not a snowball's chance in hell of the Caldari 'giving up' such an advantage. CCP likely gave fighter supremacy to the Gallente so that gallente drone users wouldn't cry and scream over it, but tbfh, I want my fighter supremacy, give them citadel torps or whatever. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Rooker Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.02.27 02:58:00 - [23] I read that bit of backstory once.... Weren't the "fighters" actually "frigates"? SAVE MWD FROM TUX!
Aegis Celestis Gallente Phoenix Wing Alektorophobia	Posted - 2007.02.27 03:37:00 - [24] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: Chronus26 Correct me if im wrong, but wern't combat drones developed as a counter to the Caldari FIghters, and were eventually succesfull in doing so? The fact that your enemy has managed to counter your most effective weapon seems like a good enough reason to look for somthing new to me. A slashed budget wouldn't neccisarily mean sub-standard equipment. It's possible they choose to maintain a much smaller fleets while still affording modern hardwares. The Caldari created frigates to counter drones. As we can see, the Gallente still love their drones. And given that fighters simply wtfpwnd larger ships, there's not a snowball's chance in hell of the Caldari 'giving up' such an advantage. CCP likely gave fighter supremacy to the Gallente so that gallente drone users wouldn't cry and scream over it, but tbfh, I want my fighter supremacy, give them citadel torps or whatever. Fighters are drones. they're not piloted ships, and they dont drop corpses. the skill is under the drones tab. and while we're at it, why dont we make the skill required to invent tech two railguns gallente encryption methods, and not caldari. ok, enough sarcasm. but honestly, fighters are drones. they appear under the "drones in space tab" go into the DRONE BAY, and require DRONE skills. is see absolutely no reason that caldari should have superior drones.
Foulis Minmatar Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.02.27 05:43:00 - [25] Originally by: Hysidee Originally by: Chronus26 Originally by: Hysidee Hi guys After looking at the various different Motherships and there bonus's, i noticed a bonus on the nyx that the others dont get. The Nyx has a 10% bonus to fighters damage compared to the thanatos 5% bonus. Fair enough, it is a mothership after all, but i then noticed that the other motherships unique bonus is the same as there carrier counterparts (Wyvern and Aeon still have 5% bonus to resistances, and the hell has the same 5% reduction to transfers). Surely the other Motherships should have a slight boost to there unique bonus's or thge nyx should have its bonus reduced to the same as the thanatos? Its probably another typo. The Thanatos' bonus used to say 10% per level when it was really 5%. Its fixed now, maybe the Nyx got overlooked. Anyway, I'd much rather have 5% extra resists than 10% Extra drone damage anyway. That i'm not debating, but for the Aeon and Wyvern maybe an increase in there resistance bonus (say 7.5%) would bring it back in line with the Nyx if that isnt a typo? And the Hel just says "no-one likes minmatar" ---- Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari NO WORDS IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE ARE SPELLED WITH THE NUMBER "8" IN THEM GODDAMNIT!
Snuff Dog Auroran PeaceKeepers Northern Regions Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.27 06:00:00 - [26] Originally by: Gorion Wassenar Note it says drones not fighters and I seriously doubt that a navy with a slashed budget will have the most elite equipment. It only takes one great idea, ideas don't come because you throw money at them (it helps) but it just takes some clever thinking to be able to outclass your opponent with brand new technology, how do you know that the press release saying that they have slashed it wasn't just them trying to trick their opponents into thinking they lack the ability to defend themselves. - - - - - -<Sig>- - - - - - "Why try, there is always someone better" Opposite "Why not there is always someone worse"
Tulisin Dragonflame	Posted - 2007.02.27 06:31:00 - [27] The slashing of the budget is only going to come into effect if you happen to encounter a Gallente Navy Nyx. Player alliance budgets have not been slashed, and as a result the things they build are top of the line.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2007.02.27 06:34:00 - [28] Originally by: Aegis Celestis Fighters are drones. they're not piloted ships, and they dont drop corpses. the skill is under the drones tab. Fighters are piloted ships, just look at the backstory, and look at the models. The Gallente one even has a clearly visible pilot. The only reason they're under drones is because EVE's game mechanics wouldn't allow it any other way. Rather than add a whole new fighter interface (just like the drone one) or add all the problems of player-flown fighters, they just put them under drones.
Irma Talley Caballeros	Posted - 2007.02.27 08:41:00 - [29] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Fighters are piloted ships, just look at the backstory, and look at the models. The Gallente one even has a clearly visible pilot. Actually, they nerfed the fighter models and you can no longer see all that cool stuff (IE pilots, directional thrusters, etc)... I'm not sure if they took it out, or just shrunk the models, but you just can't see the cool little buggers now.
Sokratesz Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.02.27 08:56:00 - [30] you cant zoom in as much as you used to Suicide is bad, hmkay? (clickety clickety)

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