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Cephelange du'Krevviq
Seventh Exploration and Engagement Command
0
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Posted - 2011.04.07 19:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
From reading the ECM portion of the EVElopedia, I have a basic understanding of how ECM modules work in EVE. I'm interested in knowing what the overall experience has been amongst the playerbase in PvP usage of ECM.
Is it worth using? Is it as effective a force multiplier as it its potential suggests? |
Feligast
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
4
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Posted - 2011.04.07 20:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cephelange du'Krevviq wrote:Is it worth using? Is it as effective a force multiplier as it its potential suggests?
yes and yes.
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Deen Wispa
Pilots of Epic
Roughneck Regulators
21
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Posted - 2011.04.07 21:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
It's a great force multiplier. I tell some of my Caldari pilots that Instead of flying Drakes during combat, to train EWAR and fly Blackbirds or Scorpions. If you compare the cost, it's 25-30M for a Blackbird where as a properly t2-fitted Drake is like 70M. You can fly 3 BBs for the price of 1 drake and still have more of an impact on a battle as well.
So, from just a value perspective, the lowlevel EWAR ships are way better alternative than fitting out battlecruisers for YAGT- Yet Another Gank and Tank fleet composition
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Cephelange du'Krevviq
Seventh Exploration and Engagement Command
0
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Posted - 2011.04.07 21:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:It's a great force multiplier. I tell some of my Caldari pilots that Instead of flying Drakes during combat, to train EWAR and fly Blackbirds or Scorpions. If you compare the cost, it's 25-30M for a Blackbird where as a properly t2-fitted Drake is like 70M. You can fly 3 BBs for the price of 1 drake and still have more of an impact on a battle as well.
So, from just a value perspective, the lowlevel EWAR ships are way better alternative than fitting out battlecruisers for YAGT- Yet Another Gank and Tank fleet composition
I appreciate that perspective; I was hoping that there was a little more depth to the PvP in EVE than the cookie cutter fits and fleet comps I've seen discussed so far. |
Belid Hagen
Shade.
Penumbra Alliance
0
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Posted - 2011.04.07 21:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:It's a great force multiplier. I tell some of my Caldari pilots that Instead of flying Drakes during combat, to train EWAR and fly Blackbirds or Scorpions. If you compare the cost, it's 25-30M for a Blackbird where as a properly t2-fitted Drake is like 70M. You can fly 3 BBs for the price of 1 drake and still have more of an impact on a battle as well.
So, from just a value perspective, the lowlevel EWAR ships are way better alternative than fitting out battlecruisers for YAGT- Yet Another Gank and Tank fleet composition
if you are spending more than 10million on a fully fitted blackbird, you are doing it wrong.
(anyone with the skills and money to fit "elite" should be flying falcons or scorpions) |
Asia Lei
State War Academy
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.04.07 21:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Instead of starting a new thread I thought I would just add to this one.
Somewhat of a EWar noob. For ECM is it better to spread out your ECM over a multi ships or to use more then one ECM on a specific ship and hope that one hits? |
Eagle Tarquinas
Reliables Inc
Majesta Empire
1
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Posted - 2011.04.07 21:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
In b4 ecm whines and because of falcon |
Target Painter
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.04.07 21:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cephelange du'Krevviq wrote:Is it worth using? Is it as effective a force multiplier as it its potential suggests?
Yes, it is definitely worth using, across the full spectrum of PvP. And it's extremely effective as a force-multiplier, because a lot of fleet comps are built around one or a few ships doing their jobs (like a Drake gang supported by Lach and Huginn) and one ECM boat (or even a few flights of ECM drones) can completely turn the fight around.
As you increase in fleet size, the impact of one ECM ship is lessened, but not eliminated. That being said, you can use dualbox a Falcon and harvest the salty, delicious tears of your victims. If you are so inclined. |
Belid Hagen
Shade.
Penumbra Alliance
0
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Posted - 2011.04.07 21:46:00 -
[9] - Quote
Asia Lei wrote:Instead of starting a new thread I thought I would just add to this one.
Somewhat of a EWar noob. For ECM is it better to spread out your ECM over a multi ships or to use more then one ECM on a specific ship and hope that one hits?
it depends entirely on the situation. I could go into detail, but I simply don't have an hour to type up a full page for you - especially when the information is out there, google is your friend.
Target Painter wrote:Cephelange du'Krevviq wrote:Is it worth using? Is it as effective a force multiplier as it its potential suggests? Yes, it is definitely worth using, across the full spectrum of PvP. And it's extremely effective as a force-multiplier, because a lot of fleet comps are built around one or a few ships doing their jobs (like a Drake gang supported by Lach and Huginn) and one ECM boat (or even a few flights of ECM drones) can completely turn the fight around. As you increase in fleet size, the impact of one ECM ship is lessened, but not eliminated. That being said, you can use dualbox a Falcon and harvest the salty, delicious tears of your victims. If you are so inclined.
it is so effective that it completely prevents many fights from occurring, once one side sees the ECM disadvantage - so if you actually want combat, it would in many cases be best NOT to bring an ECM boat. This is especially true for small gang warfare. |
Deen Wispa
Pilots of Epic
Roughneck Regulators
21
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Posted - 2011.04.07 22:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
Belid Hagen wrote:Deen Wispa wrote:It's a great force multiplier. I tell some of my Caldari pilots that Instead of flying Drakes during combat, to train EWAR and fly Blackbirds or Scorpions. If you compare the cost, it's 25-30M for a Blackbird where as a properly t2-fitted Drake is like 70M. You can fly 3 BBs for the price of 1 drake and still have more of an impact on a battle as well.
So, from just a value perspective, the lowlevel EWAR ships are way better alternative than fitting out battlecruisers for YAGT- Yet Another Gank and Tank fleet composition
if you are spending more than 10million on a fully fitted blackbird, you are doing it wrong.
Please enlighten us. And don't say, "Google is your friend" :)
I'm just trying to go from my memory but will have to check online later when I get the chance. So... 4M for just the ship itself. And if you set up a decent buy-orders for the following;
1 Medium Ionic Field Projector- 750K
5 racial meta 4 jammers- 5M total (each racial jammer varies quite a bit so I"m just aggregating the total for simplicity)
2 Med Trimark Armor Pumps- 5M total
So this is already 14.75M. And we haven't accounted for lowslots and highslots.
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Asia Lei
State War Academy
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.04.07 22:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:Belid Hagen wrote:Deen Wispa wrote:It's a great force multiplier. I tell some of my Caldari pilots that Instead of flying Drakes during combat, to train EWAR and fly Blackbirds or Scorpions. If you compare the cost, it's 25-30M for a Blackbird where as a properly t2-fitted Drake is like 70M. You can fly 3 BBs for the price of 1 drake and still have more of an impact on a battle as well.
So, from just a value perspective, the lowlevel EWAR ships are way better alternative than fitting out battlecruisers for YAGT- Yet Another Gank and Tank fleet composition
if you are spending more than 10million on a fully fitted blackbird, you are doing it wrong. Please enlighten us. And don't say, "Google is your friend" :) I'm just trying to go from my memory but will have to check online later when I get the chance. So... 4M for just the ship itself. And if you set up a decent buy-orders for the following; 1 Medium Ionic Field Projector- 750K 5 racial meta 4 jammers- 5M total (each racial jammer varies quite a bit so I"m just aggregating the total for simplicity) 2 Med Trimark Armor Pumps- 5M total So this is already 14.75M. And we haven't accounted for lowslots and highslots.
Im a noob but I have never seen a Ewar ship with Trimark Armor Pumps.
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Oddymandius
Red Federation
41
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Posted - 2011.04.07 23:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:If you compare the cost, it's 25-30M for a Blackbird You are paying too much. There's no reason to fit a single tech 2 mod on a blackbird, the meta 4 jammers/amps/ECCM are just as good as tech II variants and almost always cheaper and easier to fit. Buy them in bulk with buy orders. High-slot mods should be a single tech 1 turret or bay for km whoring, with the rest of the slots being neuts and smartbombs; and rigs should all be focused on range-tanking, no expensive core defence field extenders or trimarks required. Low slots should be 2x signal distortion amps or 1x amp and 1x backup sensor array if you have reason to believe you'll be fighting someone who can also field ewar. |
Slade Hoo
Retired Gunslingers
0
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Posted - 2011.04.07 23:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
Asia Lei wrote:
Im a noob but I have never seen a Ewar ship with Trimark Armor Pumps.
If you tank a Blackbird you usually do this by plating...and trimarks further increase that raw armor amount Bonus. This makes the ship much more expensive.
I don't like Blackbirds though...much better ECM-Boats out there, equally fitted Scorpion is in line with T2 BC and Battleship Skill lvl 4 isn't hard to train really. Fit resistance rigs instead of extender and you can fly 2 scorps for same price.
And I like the new Scorpion model. :-)
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Oddymandius
Red Federation
41
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Posted - 2011.04.07 23:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
You tank a blackbird by being >100km away from anything that can kill you, and by warping away the moment anything you can't permajam gets in point range. It only has two low slots for god's sake, armour tanking one is stupid. |
Slade Hoo
Retired Gunslingers
0
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Posted - 2011.04.07 23:46:00 -
[15] - Quote
Oddymandius wrote:You tank a blackbird by being >100km away from anything that can kill you, and by warping away the moment anything you can't permajam gets in point range.
Warping in- and out costs a lot of time. Why warp around if you can tank the tacklers and continue doing your job without warping 1/2 of the fight?
For a Blackbird that has no tank at all...can be easily snipered by various weapons. 1600mm+Trimarks will give you a buffer to click the warp button. I've shredded several untanked blackbirds...5k EHP are 2 bursts from a Drake for instance. |
Aubrey Maturin
RennTech
Fatal Ascension
0
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Posted - 2011.04.07 23:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
Warping in and out saves boats too...your job is to lock someone(s) out and generally be a pain in the ass while staying alive. |
Oddymandius
Red Federation
41
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Posted - 2011.04.08 00:44:00 -
[17] - Quote
1600mm RT + Y-T8 MWD leaves barely enough powergrid for jammers, let alone weapons. Use an LSE and maybe a damage control if you want to tank a BB.
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Iam Widdershins
FODT
5
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Posted - 2011.04.08 00:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
ECM is very effective. Too effective even.
I am particularly concerned about ECM drones right now. Most ships can field a flight of EC-300s. They seem really weak when you look at the stats, but let's consider: They have 1 omni jam strength, and there are 5 of them.
A flight of EC-300s has a 76% chance of jamming a ship with 18 sensor strength at least once in a 90 second fight. This seems like too much to me. |
Iam Widdershins
FODT
5
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Posted - 2011.04.08 00:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
Asia Lei wrote:Instead of starting a new thread I thought I would just add to this one.
Somewhat of a EWar noob. For ECM is it better to spread out your ECM over a multi ships or to use more then one ECM on a specific ship and hope that one hits?
A good ECM pilot sets all their jammers to turn off auto-repeat. Then you have a laundry list of ships you'd like to jam, and in what priority. Each cycle, you put ECM mods on each ship until it's jammed, then go to the next one. (You can tell when you've succeeded by the timer below the target box.)
TL;DR you jam as many ships as you can every cycle. |
Deen Wispa
Pilots of Epic
Roughneck Regulators
21
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Posted - 2011.04.08 01:36:00 -
[20] - Quote
Oddymandius wrote:Deen Wispa wrote:If you compare the cost, it's 25-30M for a Blackbird You are paying too much. There's no reason to fit a single tech 2 mod on a blackbird, the meta 4 jammers/amps/ECCM are just as good as tech II variants and almost always cheaper and easier to fit. Buy them in bulk with buy orders. High-slot mods should be a single tech 1 turret or bay for km whoring, with the rest of the slots being neuts and smartbombs; and rigs should all be focused on range-tanking, no expensive core defence field extenders or trimarks required. Low slots should be 2x signal distortion amps or 1x amp and 1x backup sensor array if you have reason to believe you'll be fighting someone who can also field ewar.
Right. That's what I said; buy meta 4 jammers. Not T2 jammers. I think it's too hard to quantify market buy orders and where the prices are at any time. But ummm...okay...I'll bite and see if I can equip another BB for under 10M. But yes, I can see my stated 25M isk fitting is too much. However, stating that anyone fitting a BB for over 10M isk is doing it wrong is too simplistic. You can say the same thing about anyone who tries to fit a drake or a Domi or whatever. Some people just don't have the time to set up buy orders and compete with others.
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