.... but it does need to select damage or cap with the crystals it uses. also the kronos is in no better a position.

while not as well balanced as blops they are in a pretty good spot with one another


and the golem should not be given a bonus to MGC it is not the same as a tp

Ok, so as it currently stands the paladin is capable of having 11718.75GJ for 750secs at max skills which puts it at the top when it comes to cap warfare for marauders....

They could just buff sleeper rat EM/thermal resistance.

What specifically can't you do in the other marauders that you can in a paladin?

Paladins are supposed to be top of the line vessels, and remember, this is amarr. Lasers + active rep + prop mod eats a TON of cap. They are in no way unbalanced since all you can ever deal is em/thermal, as with most amarr ships. And increasing em/thermal resistance of rats would simply make turn them into harmless tanks. Not a huge fan of the idea.

Im not refering to highsec PVE where rats deal puny damage or low class wh PVE. The original post states highend wh PVE. Please, read.

[quote=Serendipity Lost]

What specifically can't you do in the other marauders that you can do in the paladin?[quote].

Compared to other battleship classes, the marauder class has the amarr ship having better base capacitor and recharge rate. Other races tend to have equal or lower capacitor recharge rate compared to the amarr variant which tends to have a higher base cap mount.

In tbe case of marauders, This allows the paladin to be decent while the others struggle a lot, especially with really heavy neuting by sleepers, despite the paladins much heavier cap usage. It's not a huge change, it just allows other marauders to perform at an acceptable level for a marauder in highend wh PVE while the paladin still reigns supreme in cap management as it should be.

This allows for more flexibility in ship choices for highend wh pvp. All marauders should excel at highend PVE. This is what they are made for but at the moment only the paladin performs acceptably hence why it's used the most.

Does it look like this Vargur is "struggling"?

http://youtu.be/KbN4RY1vHvM

Seems to me that you're simply not fitting your other Marauders right, if you feel that they're "struggling" against neut sleepers.

Ok, so as it currently stands the paladin is capable of having 11718.75GJ for 750secs at max skills which puts it at the top when it comes to cap warfare for marauders. The issue with this is that other marauders have to compromise between fitting damage application mods or cap mods in PVE whereas the paladin can devote most of its utility slots to cap mods while still hitting comfortably to distant ranges and tanking just as much as the others. While this issue isn't obvious in highsec, it's fairly obvious in wh space where these ships are stretched to their limits in PVE and the paladin is the #1 choice 95% of the time. It's that bad.

My proposal is simple, give the other marauders better base capacitor recharge time than that of the paladin. The paladin still manages to be better thanks to its capacitor amount bonus and available utility slots but the others aren't terrible to use for high end wh PVE.

Other thing to consider would be to give the golem a bonus to missile guidance computers as well as target painters.

Please, refrain from commenting if you havent flown all 4 marauders in highend wh PVE.

The reason they have more cap is because they use 3 times more cap than gallante each time they fire their weapons. Minmatar and caldari use 0 cap to fire weapons. You can run minmatar and caldari ships as "cap careless" and thus unaffected by nuets. Despite what you may think nueting a paladin can put it into trouble very quickly as it can pretty much all amarr ships.

PS: you should learn basic game mechanics before you post things like the second quote.

I understand clearly why the Paladin has more capacitor amount but in the case of marauders, the paladin is still far and away more cap stable...

the paladin is still far and away more cap stable...

cap stable...

I think I have found the problem.

OP... have you considered that maybe you shouldn't make a ship "cap stable?"
Or that some ships sre not exactly designed around being cap stable?
Or that some ships have no need to be cap stable?

I mean... hell... the Vargur and Golem both have access to weapons and tanking mods that don't use any capacitor power (if timed right).

Why don't you try running said sites not cap stable then get back to me on how it goes for you? You want to run a C5 site with ancilliary shield boosters or cap boosters? I'd truly love to see how that works for you.

Marauders are designed to shine in these environments, not PVP, and while they all do work, the paladin is really the only decent one.

C4 is not high end PVE. All marauders can run in C4 holes even with negative wormhole effects to their tank. Properly fit pirate battleships will breeze through it as well. This is not the same for C5s, the neuting forces other rauders to fit more cap mods when their damage application is already worse. The paladin is not phased by any of this understandably but a little tweak goes a long way in helping other rauders compete.

What gave you the impression that marauders were intended to be enough for C5 and C6?

Also, I'm pretty sure, I said high end PVE not PVP. This change doesn't affect that since most will be using cap boosters regardless.

You can check the majority of marauder kills in wh space and I can assure you the paladin makes up for 90% of all of them.

You mentioned sleepers neuting you. I also see no reason to give other marauders more cap when they require less cap to run overall.



Zkillboards:

Paladin: Killed =19394, Lost = 4469, Lost to sleepers only since may 20th = 5
Kronos: Killed=21855, Lost= 3164, Lost to sleepers only since may 20th= 1
Golem: Killed =23954,Lost =7320, Lost to sleepers only since may 20th= 5
Vargur: Killed = 30693, Lost= 4412, Lost to sleepers only since may 20th=1

What this data tells me is that the golem and paladin are the most popular for WH PVE, that the vargur is the most popular for pvp, and that the kronos is the least popular ship which is no surprise. I definitely know that the paladin does not make up 90% of marauder kills in WH space.

If you are asking me that question then you have absolutely no idea of what I'm talking about.

Also, it would be nice if you actually have some experience with said ships before giving me a lame arse excuse like "I also see no reason to give other marauders more cap when they require less cap to run overall." Do me a favor and try all 4 in a basic C5 site on sisi and tell me how that works for you.

I appreciate the effort but I need people with experience commenting on this not keyboard warriors.

I know what you're talking about, and Cyrus is right. C5 and C6 sites were not intended to be run solo, regardless of whether or not a couple instances of a ship introduced after wormholes make them so. The fact that these sites stress the tank of most of the class of high end PvE ships demonstrates this to be true. Marauders don't need a capacitor buff to enable them to solo sites that CCP didn't intend to be soloed.

Ok, I did overexaggerate. Obviously, the golem is going to be more popular in lower class whs. It's the next step up from a RNI. Your veteran highsec mission runner venturing into wormholes probably flys a golem for various reasons...