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Are our POD pilots immortal?

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Cloora APEX Unlimited	Posted - 2007.02.27 23:31:00 - [1] I was thinking about the backstory and RP stuff of EVE and was wondering that question. If when we die in space when our POD gets popped, we just get our conciousness transferred to a new clone at a station, then why could we not do so for other reasons as well? Disease? Self Destruct! Mortally wounded and dying fast. Hop in your pod and self destruct! And most importantly... old age. When our characters get old can we just transfer to a new fresh clone? Please discuss. I need to know these things for RP reasons. ======================================== Production Assistant of APEX Unlimited I don't want to be forced to Jet Can mine or buy a hauler alt to mine effectivly. BIGGER CARGO HOLDS IN BARGES NOW!
Humpalot	Posted - 2007.02.27 23:35:00 - [2] Assuming you can clone yourself indefinitely (avoiding issues of a copy of a copy of a copy, etc slowly degrading) and assuming you can have a perfect consciousness transfer at the moment of death for whatever reason then yes, you would be effectively immortal barring some freak accident (e.g. the sun went nova in the system where your clone is housed and you died before you knew that).
The Pointless Gallente Lacks a Point Ltd	Posted - 2007.02.27 23:36:00 - [3] Originally by: Cloora Oddness post I'm sure someone said around here that if you die outside of your pod (i.e. get stabbed or gunned down in a back-alley etc) then you're dead. End of. No clone for you, since there was nothing attached to you to send every memory you have to a clone. Scary. ----------------------------------------------- I'd rather be a jack of all trades than a master of one.
Benco97 Gallente Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2007.02.27 23:37:00 - [4] Yup, if you die without your pod you REALLY die, end of. Unless you're me of course, in which case you just respawn with 1mil SP extra and a 50% bonus to your wallet. Death is fun ^^ "MY GOD KEEP THIS AWAY FROM BENCO97!!!!!" - Constantine Arcanum
Iota Belisarius Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.02.27 23:38:00 - [5] Edited by: Iota Belisarius on 27/02/2007 23:36:08 Originally by: Cloora then why could we not do so for other reasons as well? It's expensive as hell. Pod pilots are the super rich elite of New Eden. It may not seem expensive because you can easily acquire so much ISK as a pod pilot, but those clones that cost millions...yeah that's like asking the average citizen of any country to fork over a few mil to have their consciousness reinstated into another body. And as far as the immortality thing goes, we can't be truly immortal because technically there's only so much biological matter scientists can use to create a clone in the galaxy. Although since it is an entire galaxy, for all intents and purposes we might as well be. --------------------- Your sig is inappropriate. Please read the forum rules before reposting. -Tirg Sig jacked and nerfed in one day, just my luck.
Jashan T'Okara	Posted - 2007.02.27 23:40:00 - [6] Originally by: Humpalot Assuming you can clone yourself indefinitely (avoiding issues of a copy of a copy of a copy, etc slowly degrading) and assuming you can have a perfect consciousness transfer at the moment of death for whatever reason then yes, you would be effectively immortal barring some freak accident (e.g. the sun went nova in the system where your clone is housed and you died before you knew that). The 'copy of a copy' scenario has pretty much been elimenated with our current technology with digital storage, there is no degradation of quality when you copy (essentially) a set of 1's and 0's. Let us just assume that a bazillion years in the future that they can do the same with your DNA information for use in the accelerated growth of your new body Onoez!! I posterd with an ALT!??!!???
FromBeyond TheGrave Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.27 23:40:00 - [7] iirc your clone data is updated continuously or whenever your pod gets ready to pop. So all natural biological data ages normally. But your memories are what is permanent. Hence the ~~Emo~~ Jovian disease is terminal because it is a genetic defect that stays with you dormant and suddenly makes you want to cut yourself without warning (if your a jovian)
The Pointless Gallente Lacks a Point Ltd	Posted - 2007.02.27 23:41:00 - [8] Originally by: FromBeyond TheGrave iirc your clone data is updated continuously or whenever your pod gets ready to pop. So all natural biological data ages normally. But your memories are what is permanent. Hence the ~~Emo~~ Jovian disease is terminal because it is a genetic defect that stays with you dormant and suddenly makes you want to cut yourself without warning (if your a jovian) Errrr... where does Emo come into this? ----------------------------------------------- I'd rather be a jack of all trades than a master of one.
Laboratus Gallente BGG	Posted - 2007.02.27 23:49:00 - [9] Edited by: Laboratus on 27/02/2007 23:46:02 The real question is. How paranoid will the pod pilots become. As they start to gather fortune fame and power they will also gather enemies. What is the treshold for actually leaving the pod? And what might be the psychological effects of a different conciusness. After all, the pod neural links everything on a ship to the pilot. And how mad must the titan pilots become at some point, with the power to wipe out planetary populations at their fingertips. What do you think. Will the pilots make a distincion between them selves and the vessels they fly? Will it fade? Very interesting stuff... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Taedrin Gallente Mercatoris Technologies	Posted - 2007.02.27 23:53:00 - [10] An interesting notion. As for each successive clone slowly degrading, this doesn't make any sense. Slow degradation only applies to static copies. A clone is capable of growing, regenerating and learning. As such, anything that was lost during the cloning process (which is most likely negligible) could be regained (I.E. - you get podded without updating your clone. You can relearn the skills that you lost).

Shimakaze The Intergalactic Federation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.27 23:54:00 - [11] Well...if you really want to get down to it, immortality depends on your definition of self. What is your philosophical view on death? When is a person truly dead? If your definition of self is based on the exact neural activity and memory right before the moment of the body's destruction, then yes, pod pilots are immortal given infinite cloning capability. But this also means that you could live multiple lives simultaneously if you make multiple copies of yourself and activate them at the same time (hypothetically speaking, since this isn't done in EVE), which doesn't make sense to me. That's the paradox in cloning. -------------
Hektor Ramirez Outer Ring Tourist Information Center	Posted - 2007.02.28 00:01:00 - [12] Edited by: Hektor Ramirez on 27/02/2007 23:59:31 What I'd like to know is how many years worth of memories and experience can a brain hold before starting to forget. Emperors and the heirs live up to 500 years without clones and that seems like a lot of memories to me. It's like watching the Highlander all over again. If it's limited, which I assume it is, then a person, as a sum of all it's current memories and experiences, ceases to exist at some point. -
Leneerra Minmatar Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.02.28 00:02:00 - [13] just avoiding disease, why stop there? I order my clones at age 22, well proporioned and with a slim waist. It even relieves some of the stress around death, Knowing I will fit that dress again in a few minutes. No dieting, ever.. and getting new implant, well it is a bit like buying new shoes.
FromBeyond TheGrave Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.28 00:08:00 - [14] Originally by: The Pointless Originally by: FromBeyond TheGrave iirc your clone data is updated continuously or whenever your pod gets ready to pop. So all natural biological data ages normally. But your memories are what is permanent. Hence the ~~Emo~~ Jovian disease is terminal because it is a genetic defect that stays with you dormant and suddenly makes you want to cut yourself without warning (if your a jovian) Errrr... where does Emo come into this? Do you know what the jovian disease is?
Taedrin Gallente Mercatoris Technologies	Posted - 2007.02.28 00:10:00 - [15] Originally by: Shimakaze Well...if you really want to get down to it, immortality depends on your definition of self. What is your philosophical view on death? When is a person truly dead? If your definition of self is based on the exact neural activity and memory right before the moment of the body's destruction, then yes, pod pilots are immortal given infinite cloning capability. But this also means that you could live multiple lives simultaneously if you make multiple copies of yourself and activate them at the same time (hypothetically speaking, since this isn't done in EVE), which doesn't make sense to me. That's the paradox in cloning. The real philosophical question here, is what is your consciousness? Does a soul exist? If a soul does not exist, the only other widely accepted theory is that your consciousness is created from neurons firing off in your brain. So then, what happens when you die and your clone wakes up? Is your clone you? Or is your clone merely another person who has the same DNA and memories as you? Is your consciousness actually transferred from your old, dead body to the new clone, or is a new consciousness created which is the same as the old one, which is lost forever? And then there's the whole bloody mess about whether or not consciousness is real or not. Are we merely over glorified Universal Turing Machines, who have no real free will and can not deviate from our program? Lots and lots of philosophical questions here...
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.28 00:21:00 - [16] According to prime fiction, no pod pilots are not immortal. I forget why. http://eve.klaki.net/
Kaalen Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.02.28 00:28:00 - [17] If EVE were real, I would pod myself right now as I'm certain that my clone would not have a nasty head cold. I'm sure others would do this too for other reasons. Aches and pains? Pod yourself! In new eden, suicide would be the cure-all for pod pilots provided you are able to get to your pod all the time and you had a fresh clone set up somewhere.
Humpalot	Posted - 2007.02.28 00:34:00 - [18] Originally by: Taedrin So then, what happens when you die and your clone wakes up? Is your clone you? Or is your clone merely another person who has the same DNA and memories as you? Is your consciousness actually transferred from your old, dead body to the new clone, or is a new consciousness created which is the same as the old one, which is lost forever? Really it has to be that you actually die and an entirely new person wakes up who happens to have all your memories and essentially think they are you. Transferring consciousness (or perhaps the soul is a better word) to really be you gets pretty metaphysical and hard to see how technology would get a handle on that. So, in a way, every pod pilot is as mortal as you or I am. It seems to them that they can continue on in a new body as their experiences are preserved in their clone but that really is just a nifty hallucination. The new clone is a unique individual. Consider twins of today...they are essentially clones of each other but if you have ever met them you realize they are unique individuals and not simply carbon copies of the other.
Luthias III Amarr Bellum Aeternus	Posted - 2007.02.28 00:35:00 - [19] Damn cylons.
Kaar Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.02.28 00:40:00 - [20] Originally by: Luthias III Damn cylons. Gholas! --- ---

Sali Ennt	Posted - 2007.02.28 01:12:00 - [21] Edited by: Sali Ennt on 28/02/2007 01:08:30 Sadly, pod pilots are not immortal. Pods work because a fragment of each clones consciousness is tied to a source in a dimension that encompasses the known universe. For most pilots, the fragment resides in another physical body in a place known to philosophers as Reality. An unfortunate side effect of this process is the pilots dependency on the body that exists in Reality, which can cause even the most up to date and healthy clone to fall permanently silent. A more common side effect of this inter-dimensional link is a disruption in communications between the pilot and their ship. Pilot jargon refers to this phenomena as "lag", and it is widely blamed for things as diverse as the loss of ships and gingivitis.
Soporo	Posted - 2007.02.28 01:59:00 - [22] Edited by: Soporo on 28/02/2007 01:59:37 Also, the very nature of the info-storing and rejuvenation process begs for some vile State, Nation or Corp to sabatage or hack or otherwise "reprogram" or subliminally affect a new clones behavior. Can we say unswerving Loyalty to the State. I can see a Cald corp doing that, possibly Ammar too. Eventually, as time and tech progresses, the pod pilots wont even leave the ship, possibly become more and more cybernetic and merge with the ship?
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2007.02.28 02:12:00 - [23] Originally by: Cloora I was thinking about the backstory and RP stuff of EVE and was wondering that question. If when we die in space when our POD gets popped, we just get our conciousness transferred to a new clone at a station, then why could we not do so for other reasons as well? Disease? Self Destruct! Mortally wounded and dying fast. Hop in your pod and self destruct! And most importantly... old age. When our characters get old can we just transfer to a new fresh clone? Please discuss. I need to know these things for RP reasons. If you die outside of your POD, you are dead for good. The Cloning process relies on technology that you are attached to in a pod, thus, death outside of a pod = permanent. As far as clone transfers go, you would think that we are immortal, however the Jovian Disease shows that you cannot simply jump into a new clone and have a new life. Cloning will likely prolong lifespans a great degree, however immortality? No. If nothing else, you will eventually have a malfunction and end up like Fatal did. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2007.02.28 02:25:00 - [24] Originally by: Soporo Edited by: Soporo on 28/02/2007 01:59:37 Also, the very nature of the info-storing and rejuvenation process begs for some vile State, Nation or Corp to sabatage or hack or otherwise "reprogram" or subliminally affect a new clones behavior. Can we say unswerving Loyalty to the State. I can see a Cald corp doing that, possibly Ammar too. Eventually, as time and tech progresses, the pod pilots wont even leave the ship, possibly become more and more cybernetic and merge with the ship? There is no 'info storage'. Your mind is transferred and it destroys the host brain in the process. IF there's any way to actually 'store' a mind and create copies of a person, there is no sign whatsoever that any of the empires know about it. Since transfers go directly from pod to clone, and are based in technology that has been given, not created, I doubt highly that you could alter the info in transit. It'd be like you altering this post on its way to the server once I click post reply. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.02.28 02:39:00 - [25] Originally by: Hektor Ramirez What I'd like to know is how many years worth of memories and experience can a brain hold before starting to forget. External memory devices, duh? Watch more Ghost in the Shell EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard
Hektor Ramirez Outer Ring Tourist Information Center	Posted - 2007.02.28 02:49:00 - [26] Originally by: Dark Shikari External memory devices, duh? slaps forehead of course, of course -
gfldex	Posted - 2007.02.28 05:42:00 - [27] Originally by: Iota Belisarius And as far as the immortality thing goes, we can't be truly immortal because technically there's only so much biological matter scientists can use to create a clone in the galaxy. Although since it is an entire galaxy, for all intents and purposes we might as well be. But I could prolong my stay be removing you from the equation. hmm ... /me wonders off to the medical lab Anyway, for the OP I remeber a backstory thingy where a Caldari Navy Officer was executed without a clone. So you better be carefull how you threat Aurora ppl. -- Number of pilots that logged while I scrambled, bubbled or shooten them: 12.
Chemo Emo	Posted - 2007.02.28 05:48:00 - [28] After spending an eternity in the tutorial, being imortal is the only fitting reward.
CrestoftheStars Deviance Inc	Posted - 2007.02.28 05:58:00 - [29] Originally by: Cloora I was thinking about the backstory and RP stuff of EVE and was wondering that question. If when we die in space when our POD gets popped, we just get our conciousness transferred to a new clone at a station, then why could we not do so for other reasons as well? Disease? Self Destruct! Mortally wounded and dying fast. Hop in your pod and self destruct! And most importantly... old age. When our characters get old can we just transfer to a new fresh clone? Please discuss. I need to know these things for RP reasons. the genes in a clone is the same as yours, so if it is a sickness that is coursed by this (which it is when your in the pod), a clone would have the same lifespand... and actually your cells in the body can only split X times, so you got a natural timer that can not be exceded:) and have nothing to do with conscience, your just a copy, which means it act and think excatly the same ___________________________________________ come on.. stop thinking about YOU. and start thinking about All of us... how do we get a more fun and enjoyable game for all of us.
CrestoftheStars Deviance Inc	Posted - 2007.02.28 06:08:00 - [30] i thought there was a 50% chance of dying when you entered the pod? so i couldnt think they actually would try to leave an reenter;) besides, to all your superspicius wannabe jesus people out there. IT IS A CLONE! a copy!. it is not you, it is just something that thinks, act, and have the excat same memorize of what you had... the quetion is. how many years would go before the brain and cells collapset and couldn't split anymore, and lets just say they found a way to reconstruct the dna so they remove the genes that makes you age, then how many years would go before you got crazy by all your knowledge and how **** up the universe really is... remember these persons would have had tousends of years to figure everything out and they can see how much every one else just s up... the person in the world with the highest IQ ever, could learn a whole new languesh in 1! day, he killed himself at the age of 26... soo maybe this is what would happend at some point;) Originally by:** Laboratus Edited by: Laboratus on 27/02/2007 23:46:02 The real question is. How paranoid will the pod pilots become. As they start to gather fortune fame and power they will also gather enemies. What is the treshold for actually leaving the pod? And what might be the psychological effects of a different conciusness. After all, the pod neural links everything on a ship to the pilot. And how mad must the titan pilots become at some point, with the power to wipe out planetary populations at their fingertips. What do you think. Will the pilots make a distincion between them selves and the vessels they fly? Will it fade? Very interesting stuff... ___________________________________________ come on.. stop thinking about YOU. and start thinking about All of us... how do we get a more fun and enjoyable game for all of us.



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