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Monstah Khaos
ElevenBravo
12
   |
Posted - 2016.06.03 23:22:19 -
[1] - Quote
Since last weekend we have now run 77 combat sites (0.7-0.5) .
Of those 77 we saw 4 Dread spawns with faction ammo only
Of those 77 we got approximately 6 escalations 5x 4/10 sites and 1x 5/10 site in both low and high sec
All of the 4/10 sites had less than 2mil in loot for both rooms. The faction drops were ammo only.
The 5/10 site had 15mil in total loot with the cheapest pithi type c resist. We didn't even get a Tier drop.
We have been running the crap out of these for a while and honestly were raking in about 400-500mil per day off the loot and salvage + bounties. Suddenly this week has seen a waste of time...
I know it is a numbers thing on odds for drops etc. but I would say I won't be going to Vegas any time soon with this kind of luck!!
Any one else notice a crazy drop or did I miss a change in a patch somewhere?
As of right now it is worthless doing the escalations in low sec as the drop value is nowhere near worth losing a halfway fit ship.
?? |
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
336
|
Posted - 2016.06.03 23:36:45 -
[2] - Quote
Monstah Khaos wrote:Since last weekend we have now run 77 combat sites (0.7-0.5) .
Of those 77 we saw 4 Dread spawns with faction ammo only
Of those 77 we got approximately 6 escalations 5x 4/10 sites and 1x 5/10 site in both low and high sec
All of the 4/10 sites had less than 2mil in loot for both rooms. The faction drops were ammo only.
The 5/10 site had 15mil in total loot with the cheapest pithi type c resist. We didn't even get a Tier drop.
We have been running the crap out of these for a while and honestly were raking in about 400-500mil per day off the loot and salvage + bounties. Suddenly this week has seen a waste of time...
I know it is a numbers thing on odds for drops etc. but I would say I won't be going to Vegas any time soon with this kind of luck!!
Any one else notice a crazy drop or did I miss a change in a patch somewhere?
As of right now it is worthless doing the escalations in low sec as the drop value is nowhere near worth losing a halfway fit ship.
??
I was farming for escalations a couple of weeks ago, many times in a row and got nothing. I chalked it up to bad luck. In fact, the spawn rate of HiSec sites is severely depressed or people are knocking them out enmasse. I think I saw a dev blog on spawn adjustments, maybe on drop rate as well.
HiSec is already ISK resource poor, so if they are cutting down revenues even further, I guess the intent is to push everyone out to Lo/Null or make more money of the HiSec players since it's harder to PLEX there. If that's the case, I don't get it because it means that even CCP doesn't understand why players stay in HiSec. They nerf it too much and they risk those players just not playing any more. Ah well, if it is a nerf, then we'll have to deal with it.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
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Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
543
|
Posted - 2016.06.03 23:47:57 -
[3] - Quote
CCP will never say, and many people will give the obligatory Random is Random response, but after tracking all my results for the year I'm convinced CCP rebalances the loot tables periodically.
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Monstah Khaos
ElevenBravo
12
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Posted - 2016.06.04 00:19:45 -
[4] - Quote
Well, no matter what the theory is, I have seen an insane drop in drop rates from these. I understand a string of bad luck because there are plenty of times I go 20-25 sites without anything (dread spawn, escalation, etc.) but 77 (now 79) and then to hit the escalations with nothing is pretty bad.
I am sure things get tweaked here and there, nothing we can do about it. I do know that if the drop rate was a "tweak" (or nerf in this case), that sure takes some of the option of excitement out of hi-sec life and playing the different things other than mining and mission running.
We (corp) have all been on for about 8yrs or so (army vet buddies) and spent most of our time in low-sec and wormholes. We took a long break but were sitting around getting trashed and said "let's fire up the EVE stuff". A LOT has changed in 2-3yrs. Some good, some bad... The game sure is easier to grind than the older days. We decided to stay in hi-sec for a while since most of us are oil field workers and techs. Not really enough time to run a low-sec operation. |
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc.
LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
774
|
Posted - 2016.06.04 04:09:17 -
[5] - Quote
Shiloh Templeton wrote:CCP will never say, and many people will give the obligatory Random is Random response, but after tracking all my results for the year I'm convinced CCP rebalances the loot tables periodically.
Guaranteed, they have to. 
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Test Alliance Please Ignore
14167
|
Posted - 2016.06.04 07:29:29 -
[6] - Quote
The human brain can't deal with true randomness. All the proof you need is to watch these forums every week for the newest "did something change, I'm getting less loot!?!?" Thread lol. I've seen a version of this same thread every week for my whole nine years here. Hell, back in the day I was the author of one or two of them.
There is no conspiracy, no behind the scenes manipulation, no unannounced change aimed at forcing anyone to play different. What does exist is the fact that we chose to engage with game content that offers random rewards.
Notice how you only see these threads when the results are negative. No one posts when they get improbable drops or back to back to back escalations.
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Erebus Vain
State War Academy
Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2016.06.04 08:07:24 -
[7] - Quote
Shiloh Templeton wrote:CCP will never say, and many people will give the obligatory Random is Random response, but after tracking all my results for the year I'm convinced CCP rebalances the loot tables periodically.
Stops people from being able to farm at a known rate i suppose, as well as pushing players into finding better sites or maybe into other areas of the game. |
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
Voxis Accord
78
|
Posted - 2016.06.04 08:35:10 -
[8] - Quote
There was an announced rebalance of some exploration site with citadels.
Probably they are still tweaking them.
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Hawke Frost
180
|
Posted - 2016.06.04 10:08:26 -
[9] - Quote
I've been making 200-400 mil/day without issues in the last few weeks (not every day as I couldn't be bothered to do it), with a Jackdaw (for now) in high sec. Other than some changes a while back I've not noticed any recent issues, but note that for some reason there seems to be a period of "rng not being so rng" going on at times.
I don't generally get too many, if at all, ship BPC but then all of a sudden in one week I end up with 5+. Weeks can go by till I get an escalation at all and then for a short period of time I get swamped in them. Still, I've never really had the "holy ****, I might as well start mining" problems. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
12247
|
Posted - 2016.06.04 10:26:37 -
[10] - Quote
Shiloh Templeton wrote:CCP will never say, and many people will give the obligatory Random is Random response, but after tracking all my results for the year I'm convinced CCP rebalances the loot tables periodically.
RNR is R
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2625
|
Posted - 2016.06.04 10:38:04 -
[11] - Quote
I've been doing incredibly well. Haven't seen an OPE-only drop in weeks. Luck of the draw. |
Monstah Khaos
ElevenBravo
12
|
Posted - 2016.06.04 10:44:35 -
[12] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:The human brain can't deal with true randomness. All the proof you need is to watch these forums every week for the newest "did something change, I'm getting less loot!?!?" Thread lol. I've seen a version of this same thread every week for my whole nine years here. Hell, back in the day I was the author of one or two of them.
There is no conspiracy, no behind the scenes manipulation, no unannounced change aimed at forcing anyone to play different. What does exist is the fact that we chose to engage with game content that offers random rewards.
Notice how you only see these threads when the results are negative. No one posts when they get improbable drops or back to back to back escalations.
No way in hell I would post a positive "dude I am killin' it out here" thread.... Locator agents get rich off the forums  |
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron
The-Culture
1799
|
Posted - 2016.06.04 11:55:55 -
[13] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:The human brain can't deal with true randomness. All the proof you need is to watch these forums every week for the newest "did something change, I'm getting less loot!?!?" Thread lol. I've seen a version of this same thread every week for my whole nine years here. Hell, back in the day I was the author of one or two of them.
There is no conspiracy, no behind the scenes manipulation, no unannounced change aimed at forcing anyone to play different. What does exist is the fact that we chose to engage with game content that offers random rewards.
Notice how you only see these threads when the results are negative. No one posts when they get improbable drops or back to back to back escalations.
You look like having great expertise in EVE Online code. Any sources?
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
545
|
Posted - 2016.06.04 17:50:05 -
[14] - Quote
Erebus Vain wrote:Stops people from being able to farm at a known rate i suppose, as well as pushing players into finding better sites or maybe into other areas of the game.
I wouldn't have a problem with CCP making intelligent decisions about changing the drop %'s on a regular basis. It could help keep a 'balanced' supply of loot so items don't become oversupplied. It would make sense to vary chances by region or time zone to keep a few players from getting in a routine and monopolizing sites.
It would be a bit dastardly, but it wouldn't be that hard to program it so a players chances change based on the accumulated exploration wealth every 22 days. Or based on character age so newbros could make a decent income from Hi-sec data and relic sites.
But we'll never know without open source code.
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc.
LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
774
|
Posted - 2016.06.04 18:26:31 -
[15] - Quote
Jenn I disagree heartily with your last post, Shilohs is much closer to reality.
Rebalancing loot tables periodically behind the scenes is a necessary function to create balance within an economic level based on what CCP wants for their gaming world. This is a standard gaming and MMO reality. You want the price of something to fall in relation you drop more, you want prices to rise you will cut back supply. You can tweak through a myriad of ways. Introducing new ways to harvest items or simply changing the existing ways. They have an entire team dedicated to balancing the economy in relation to game play changes and it simply makes sense that such metrics are not only tracked but updated periodically for a variety of reasons.
Its not nefarious or underhanded, far from it, its just normal behind the scenes balancing. Sometimes they will tell us, like the T1 loot drop nerf, or new items like the sleeper and mordus stuff. Often they wont, I know if I was them I wouldnt. Or else you get the officer dt spawn races that just get farmed by the few.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
|
Negasonic Teenage Warhead
State War Academy
Caldari State
35
|
Posted - 2016.06.04 19:24:29 -
[16] - Quote
NO
RNG is still R. |
Cranial Rectidus
ElevenBravo
47
|
Posted - 2016.06.04 22:30:26 -
[17] - Quote
Make that 90 sites now I have run with Monst. Just spent 2 hours chasing escalation story that led us a good 22 jumps from home by the end. Total loot value = 9,500,000 isk. The Dreads at each site along the story dropped faction ammo and an explosive pithi shield worth about 1.5mil. Nearly ganked in hi-sec on the way back in a 70mil isk Noctis lol.
We have decided that L4 mission running is back on top of the list for a while after this 90 site run all week. Even the data and relic sites have been very poor turn outs. Looks like some runs to nullsec and wormholes for that end of it as well.
In the meantime we have some kill rights to go have hi-sec fun with  |
ube smoked
State War Academy
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2016.06.04 22:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
Yes. You are not the first one to mention this btw. Escalations happens extremely rarely now and dreads are dropping crap. |
Monstah Khaos
ElevenBravo
12
|
Posted - 2016.06.04 23:13:42 -
[19] - Quote
Yes we agree that the bad luck factor has been modified by something else. |
Coralas
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
13
|
Posted - 2016.06.05 01:57:43 -
[20] - Quote
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:Jenn I disagree heartily with your last post, Shilohs is much closer to reality.
Rebalancing loot tables periodically behind the scenes is a necessary function to create balance within an economic level based on what CCP wants for their gaming world. This is a standard gaming and MMO reality. You want the price of something to fall in relation you drop more, you want prices to rise you will cut back supply. You can tweak through a myriad of ways. Introducing new ways to harvest items or simply changing the existing ways. They have an entire team dedicated to balancing the economy in relation to game play changes and it simply makes sense that such metrics are not only tracked but updated periodically for a variety of reasons.
Its not nefarious or underhanded, far from it, its just normal behind the scenes balancing. Sometimes they will tell us, like the T1 loot drop nerf, or new items like the sleeper and mordus stuff. Often they wont, I know if I was them I wouldnt. Or else you get the officer dt spawn races that just get farmed by the few.
They really don't touch it very often though, imo the prices of most deadspace items are inline with my longterm expectations about the rates they dropped at 2 or 3 years ago.
As a point of interest, I looked up my old spreadsheets from living in vale a couple of years ago on my other account. I ran 1144 anomolies to completion, for 29 escalations (~1 in 39) and a mere 18 commanders. The longest streak recorded was for rally points of 216 rally points in a row _without_ an escalation.
In the same time, in the system I lived in (and the odd ninja from nearby unused systems), I managed to complete 15 ded 6s, 34 ded 8s, 17 ded 7s and 7 ded 10s that were direct spawn ups. ie gun-probing wasn't as effective as probing you just get paid for the probing time.
From memory ( I don't have records for that period), highsec dens have always had an unusually high rate of commander spawns and escalations, but even so, the longest run of no escalation was still in the region of 160 - when the RNG decides its your turn to get nothing, it really is your turn to get nothing. |
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3867
|
Posted - 2016.06.05 02:54:28 -
[21] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:Shiloh Templeton wrote:CCP will never say, and many people will give the obligatory Random is Random response, but after tracking all my results for the year I'm convinced CCP rebalances the loot tables periodically.
RNG is R
As I said in another thread, it's not. It is a programmed algorithm with totally deterministic results. It is supposed to look random. But if CCP somehow made a programming error, then we could get very non-random results.
Example: Once no Arkonor was spawning. Some said "RNG is R". But what had happened was CCP mis-spelled "Arkonor" in the roid generation table.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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Davian Thule Pirkibo
Absolute Massive Destruction
Test Alliance Please Ignore
71
|
Posted - 2016.06.05 12:47:41 -
[22] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:Monstah Khaos wrote:Since last weekend we have now run 77 combat sites (0.7-0.5) .
Of those 77 we saw 4 Dread spawns with faction ammo only
Of those 77 we got approximately 6 escalations 5x 4/10 sites and 1x 5/10 site in both low and high sec
All of the 4/10 sites had less than 2mil in loot for both rooms. The faction drops were ammo only.
The 5/10 site had 15mil in total loot with the cheapest pithi type c resist. We didn't even get a Tier drop.
We have been running the crap out of these for a while and honestly were raking in about 400-500mil per day off the loot and salvage + bounties. Suddenly this week has seen a waste of time...
I know it is a numbers thing on odds for drops etc. but I would say I won't be going to Vegas any time soon with this kind of luck!!
Any one else notice a crazy drop or did I miss a change in a patch somewhere?
As of right now it is worthless doing the escalations in low sec as the drop value is nowhere near worth losing a halfway fit ship.
?? I was farming for escalations a couple of weeks ago, many times in a row and got nothing. I chalked it up to bad luck. In fact, the spawn rate of HiSec sites is severely depressed or people are knocking them out enmasse. I think I saw a dev blog on spawn adjustments, maybe on drop rate as well. HiSec is already ISK resource poor, so if they are cutting down revenues even further, I guess the intent is to push everyone out to Lo/Null or make more money of the HiSec players since it's harder to PLEX there. If that's the case, I don't get it because it means that even CCP doesn't understand why players stay in HiSec. They nerf it too much and they risk those players just not playing any more. Ah well, if it is a nerf, then we'll have to deal with it.
Why do people stay in highsec? This game is risk reward and you are meant to eventually ascend to pursue riskier things. This is not a care bear theme park. Ccp has finnaly made it so that for most types of income nullsec is worth it. The only thing now that is still to be done is nerfing/getting rid of highsec incursions.
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3867
|
Posted - 2016.06.05 13:13:56 -
[23] - Quote
The entire "risk vs reward" argument has always bothered me. When someone cries over a gank loss, the gankers like to say " Its just meaningless space pixels and imaginary space money". OK, Lets take them at their word. Its all meaningless space pixels and imaginary space money. Losing or gaining something that is meaningless is neither risk or reward.
Where IS the risk and reward in Eve? It has to be in the real world. The risk is $15 a month you spend on the subscription (or the time you spend to grind for a PLEX). The reward is having fun. Given that, the reward for play in high sec should be the same as any other part of space.
CCP: you should not be making changes to any part of space that makes it less fun for those players who prefer to play there.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Test Alliance Please Ignore
14168
|
Posted - 2016.06.05 18:53:18 -
[24] - Quote
Copy and paste is a wonderful thing so I don't have to re-type this. But this very same discussion is going on in missions and complexes lol.
Quote:March rabbit wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Probably a bad time to mention that last night... What is funny is that almost every time someone mentions bad drop you 'recently' got good one  The was just this week, What's even funnier is that last week I had the single most improbable situation I've yet had in EVE,, more improbable than the 2 officer spawns I've had so far (one 4 years ago, the other 2 years ago). Running havens, the 1st one spawned a DG battleship that dropped a DG web. The very next haven spawned a BG battleship that dropped a DG drone damage amp and THEN escalated to a 10/10 MAZE. And the MAZE dropped a Rattlesnake BPC. The odds of that chain of events must be astronomically low, and yet it happened. But what also happened was the 34 havens in a row I've done in the same space in last month the spawned noting but couple of guristas dread and a few 'ammo and tag' DG battleships. I've been doing this long enough to understand that that just happens, and that there is no big CCP conspiracy at play. It's a simple random number generator at work.
The real funny thing is that I also just had this same discussion with my wife and our friends in real life. There are no real casinos in my state so everyone just hops the border to either Louisiana or Oklahoma, we go to Winstar in Thackervil , OK once or twice a month as a fun getaway (not major gamblers, we screw around on the penny machines, play a little poker, eat at the buffet and come home lol). My wife and I have gotten to know a bunch of 'regulars' from our area that go up there.
And you hear the same thing in that casino for the last 5 years that I've heard n this forum for 9 years now. "My system always delivers, the 'powers that be' must not like me winning so much". "Something must have changed, that machine always pays out for me, but not this time". "My luck can't be this bad, there HAS to be something up, these results are contrary to the law of averages!". I heard all three of those utterances last week.
And just like in the discussion I quoted above with March Rabbit it seems like every time I hear something like that, I win something (and no I don't think that it more than just coincidence lol). I said screw it and played on one of those hideous 5 dollar machines they have on a fluke and won Three thousand dollars 5 minutes after one of my casino buddies claimed something was wrong lol.
I found him later at one of the bars and said "this is probably a bad time to mention this......"  |
Violet Hurst
Fedaya Recon
82
|
Posted - 2016.06.05 21:31:16 -
[25] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Bumblefck wrote:Shiloh Templeton wrote:CCP will never say, and many people will give the obligatory Random is Random response, but after tracking all my results for the year I'm convinced CCP rebalances the loot tables periodically.
RNG is R As I said in another thread, it's not. It is a programmed algorithm with totally deterministic results. It is supposed to look random. But if CCP somehow made a programming error, then we could get very non-random results. Example: Once no Arkonor was spawning. Some said "RNG is R". But what had happened was CCP mis-spelled "Arkonor" in the roid generation table.
NPC loot tables with their drop chances are the last thing any game developer will ever publish. Even if everything else is made transparent, they remain the last set screw if the developers need to change things without causing an overreaction by the playerbase. Randomness is also something that can not be proven, so your argument is pretty much on the safe side there.
When you play the determinism of common random number generating functions against the forced pattern recognition of the human brain that Jenn aSide mentioned though, you are comparing things that differ in scale. Tremendously.
There are also "true" random number generators available, e.g. from https://www.random.org/. And for all we know CCP might be using one of those.
Let me close by saying that I'm generally a huge fan of determinism. Things we currently regard as random might after all become computable at some point. But for one at the moment e.g. 96% of all gravity in the universe is unaccounted for, so there's still a lot of room for randomness. (This sentence is just meant to illustrate the scale.)
And even if we were in theory able to compute the universe, we'd need a memory cell to store the state of each and every particle, for which there just aren't enough particles avilable. (The machine would have to be bigger than the universe itself. This is contradictory.)
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
12056
|
Posted - 2016.06.06 06:11:46 -
[26] - Quote
I dont see how the loot is different now than for example in winter.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
76
|
Posted - 2016.06.06 09:28:47 -
[27] - Quote
there was an escalation buff in 2014.
Probably CCP realising that certain escalations became a bit too powerful and tweaked it down again (still get the escalation but crap loot! :D)
https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/all-that-is-gold-does-not-glitter-data-sites-expeditions-and-more/
how time flies... |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
12060
|
Posted - 2016.06.06 09:34:43 -
[28] - Quote
I have been running escalations yesterday, Loot was good. Give your lootfairy some occasion to show her skills and maybe run more of them, dank escalations? But then again, results of her job are not guaranteed, remember.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
12060
|
Posted - 2016.06.06 09:38:36 -
[29] - Quote
Violet Hurst wrote: (The machine would have to be bigger than the universe itself. This is contradictory.)
What about fractals? They are small, and can generate on flow, infinitely.
Not much memory is needed, but you need something to display the results of inner workings.
Take for example original Elite by Braben.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Staine Codekiller
State War Academy
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.06.06 09:50:22 -
[30] - Quote
Just ran a string of combat sites with absolute crap. Friend jumped over to Gallente space and made 700,000,000 in 4 hours with a bunch of Gila BP and Mid-Grade Crystals. I got more Dread light missiles than I know what to do with. Just did 2 greater sleeper sites complete for a whopping 5 million ISK.
The odds are always against you. I can't wait for my buddy to get back to I can gank him. |
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Violet Hurst
Fedaya Recon
83
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Posted - 2016.06.06 12:29:46 -
[31] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Not much memory is needed, but you need something to display the results of inner workings.
The latter is the weak spot. Of course there are e.g. lossless compression algorithms for pictures, but if you want to observe them, they have to be decompressed and each pixel has to be rendered, so their state(colour) has to be saved, on your monitor.
Another example: You can build a computer in Minecraft. You could probably also build a computer in Minecraft that runs Minecraft. However if that computer was to run the same instance of Minecraft it was in, it would have to compute a computer that runs Minecraft with a computer in it that runs Minecraft with a computer in it... You'd get to infinite levels of recursion. So moving even a single block would have to be propagated infinite times. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
12065
|
Posted - 2016.06.06 13:23:57 -
[32] - Quote
Violet Hurst wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Not much memory is needed, but you need something to display the results of inner workings. The latter is the weak spot. Of course there are e.g. lossless compression algorithms for pictures, but if you want to observe them, they have to be decompressed and each pixel has to be rendered, so their state(colour) has to be saved, on your monitor. Another example: You can build a computer in Minecraft. You could probably also build a computer in Minecraft that runs Minecraft. However if that computer was to run the same instance of Minecraft it was in, it would have to compute a computer that runs Minecraft with a computer in it that runs Minecraft with a computer in it... You'd get to infinite levels of recursion. So moving even a single block would have to be propagated infinite times.
Isnt everything propagated in such way when you see it in the details?
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
341
|
Posted - 2016.06.06 14:33:22 -
[33] - Quote
Well, I did some time on Saturday and Sunday and looked to see what I could come up with (NPC combat wise) and if it was the same as before.
Not many escalations, in fact, none, but the regular sites (Refuge, etc.) were dropping higher quality loot even if the sites were rarer. Also, some of the mining spawn sites were spawning nicer stuff you'd only see in LoSec. So, either CCP fixed an oops (perhaps an 'over' adjustment of HiSec) with the latest patch, or I just had a really bad run of luck for a while there. I don't know why the escalations have dropped to ziltch. I've run about 15 sites and no escalations. I normally would have had 3 in that period.
I don't think HiSec should be easy money, it should be low profit, low risk. I really enjoy using it to learn the game and get my player skills up. Eventually we'll probably be down in Providence and mucking around in Null Sec, but for the time being, HiSec is doing well for me. It's not comfortable but it's a good balance of a place to play and figure out how things work.
Currently doing the PI thing. I think I've got a handle on that but the timing issues of the cycles are just weird.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
|
Violet Hurst
Fedaya Recon
83
|
Posted - 2016.06.06 18:28:01 -
[34] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Violet Hurst wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Not much memory is needed, but you need something to display the results of inner workings. The latter is the weak spot. Of course there are e.g. lossless compression algorithms for pictures, but if you want to observe them, they have to be decompressed and each pixel has to be rendered, so their state(colour) has to be saved, on your monitor. Another example: You can build a computer in Minecraft. You could probably also build a computer in Minecraft that runs Minecraft. However if that computer was to run the same instance of Minecraft it was in, it would have to compute a computer that runs Minecraft with a computer in it that runs Minecraft with a computer in it... You'd get to infinite levels of recursion. So moving even a single block would have to be propagated infinite times. Isnt everything propagated in such way when you see it in the details?
Umm, could you please elaborate that statement? |
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
Voxis Accord
78
|
Posted - 2016.06.06 18:35:27 -
[35] - Quote
Staine Codekiller wrote:Just ran a string of combat sites with absolute crap. Friend jumped over to Gallente space and made 700,000,000 in 4 hours with a bunch of Gila BP and Mid-Grade Crystals. I got more Dread light missiles than I know what to do with. Just did 2 greater sleeper sites complete for a whopping 5 million ISK.
The odds are always against you. I can't wait for my buddy to get back to I can gank him.
But then your bad luck will strike again and he will drop only the worthless stuff while the BPC and implants will be destroyed. |
Davian Thule Pirkibo
Absolute Massive Destruction
Test Alliance Please Ignore
72
|
Posted - 2016.06.15 21:36:14 -
[36] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:The entire "risk vs reward" argument has always bothered me. When someone cries over a gank loss, the gankers like to say " Its just meaningless space pixels and imaginary space money". OK, Lets take them at their word. Its all meaningless space pixels and imaginary space money. Losing or gaining something that is meaningless is neither risk or reward.
Where IS the risk and reward in Eve? It has to be in the real world. The risk is $15 a month you spend on the subscription (or the time you spend to grind for a PLEX). The reward is having fun. Given that, the reward for play in high sec should be the same as any other part of space.
CCP: you should not be making changes to any part of space that makes it less fun for those players who prefer to play there.
risk reward "argument"? its the basis behind the games pve system, the more inherent risk there is the resulting reward should theoretically rise. Gankers qoute "its only space pixels" because of the torrents of tears their victims drown them in over a game. that "risk" you just suggested makes no sense when there is trial accounts. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
12383
|
Posted - 2016.06.15 21:40:13 -
[37] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Bumblefck wrote:Shiloh Templeton wrote:CCP will never say, and many people will give the obligatory Random is Random response, but after tracking all my results for the year I'm convinced CCP rebalances the loot tables periodically.
RNG is R As I said in another thread, it's not. It is a programmed algorithm with totally deterministic results. It is supposed to look random. But if CCP somehow made a programming error, then we could get very non-random results.
I will accept your thesis gladly if you can provide an official link from CCP saying as much
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
|
Specia1 K
State War Academy
Caldari State
157
|
Posted - 2016.06.16 08:03:39 -
[38] - Quote
Sites are totally sucking lemons right now. And I hate lemonaid.
Went through 4 empires this week to confirm it isn't a localized thing. They all suck.
Time to start jumping wormholes again... |
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
491
|
Posted - 2016.06.16 08:17:22 -
[39] - Quote
leave hisec. 
Just Add Water
|
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron
The-Culture
1809
|
Posted - 2016.06.16 08:56:03 -
[40] - Quote
Nat Silverguard wrote:leave hisec.
well... i cannot say that i'm getting 'all good dr0p' in 0.0 too.... So yeah....
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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|
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
12525
|
Posted - 2016.06.16 11:25:20 -
[41] - Quote
I dont know. Sometimes I get a lot of drop, one after another, but some sites are feeling wrong like they give me only a overseer effects one time after another, and I am thinking when running those: "Probably another Overseer effects will drop and nothing else... why am I doing this faction, better move somewhere else..."
What if the algorithm is watching how much sites are run daily and adjustes the loot chance? So there would be no flooding of market with same kind of modules and drop of prices for those selling them.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Matt Benneth
Perkone
Caldari State
20
|
Posted - 2016.06.16 11:45:36 -
[42] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:What if the algorithm is watching how much sites are run daily and adjustes the loot chance? So there would be no flooding of market with same kind of modules and drop of prices for those selling them.
This is probably just wishful thinking, but sometimes after you get few lucky drops feels like you are cursed and can't get anything afterwards. Could be some algorithm/invisible hand of Bob lowering your chance of becoming too lucky in some time period.
EDIT: Sadly as individual players we can only speculate around this since no single player could gather big enough sample size to get any meaningful statistical data from it. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Test Alliance Please Ignore
14198
|
Posted - 2016.06.16 12:15:21 -
[43] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:I dont know. Sometimes I get a lot of drop, one after another, but some sites are feeling wrong like they give me only a overseer effects one time after another, and I am thinking when running those: "Probably another Overseer effects will drop and nothing else... why am I doing this faction, better move somewhere else..."
What if the algorithm is watching how much sites are run daily and adjustes the loot chance? So there would be no flooding of market with same kind of modules and drop of prices for those selling them.
I know for a fact it doesn't work that way. Look at Guristas/pith loot. Look at Pirate Battleships (The rattlesnake got down to 350 mil for a long time). if there was some kind of adjustment function, I sure as heck wouldn't have gotten two commander spawns and 2 10/10 escalations last night.
The over-farming that goes on across EVE space wouldn't be happening at all if such a thing existed, and those of us who explore and farm anomalies would be constantly moving about trying to find content.
|
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Test Alliance Please Ignore
14198
|
Posted - 2016.06.16 12:40:30 -
[44] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote: I've run about 15 sites and no escalations. I normally would have had 3 in that period.
That sums up the entire situation right there. This thread isn't about loot, it's about expectations. People aren't getting the things they (irrationally) think they should have, and that leads to the belief that ;something must be wrong. There isn't.
You could do 50 anomalies and get nothing, then do 3 more right after and each one escalates. Last night I was running Guristas Havens. It was getting late so I said to myself I'll do two more and call it quits. The 1st one spawned a DG Battleship and I got an escalation when I killed it (ammo and tag in the DG wreck but you can't have everything lol), the last one I did that night was one someone else half did and it escalated too. back to back 10/10 escalations. The odds of that sequence of events is probably lower than finding toilet gold lol.
In 9 years of chasing space cash I've learned 2 things:
#1. Don't have expectations, just let it happen. When you have expectations and they aren't met, you feel bad. But when you realize that the game doesn't owe you anything, every escalation pop up feels like freaking Christmas.
And #2 is an observation. PVE players are intensely superstitious , just like real life gamblers. If you told an EVE explorer or anom farmer that jumping up and down on one leg 25 times right before you killed the last rat would increase (not guarantee, just increase) the chances of an escalation or good loot drop, you start seeing emergency rooms across the U.S., Canada and Europe trying to battle an epidemic of ankle sprains lol. |
Hawke Frost
199
|
Posted - 2016.06.16 13:32:03 -
[45] - Quote
A lot of people don't understand how RNG works, The whole "RNG is R lol, you're going to have good and bad days" doesn't cover it all. If you have enough data points then RNG becomes a static number. If drop chance is 50% then, with enough drops, it'll even out at 50%. But if RNG is skewed and drop chance is changed it's STILL RNG but that doesn't mean the outcome will be the same just because it's still RNG. So people who go "lol, stop whining I've been doing fine" are no better than the "waah drop chance is changed, I've been doing badly" folks they reply to.
Over the years of doing the exact same thing in PVE (combat exploration in Gallente space) I've noticed shifts back and forth in regards to drop chance, drop type, BPC chance and escalation chance. If you do a whole lot of this stuff then you will notice trends and it's not very difficult to realize that yes, there have been some changes recently (and by recently I mean "the last few months"). Does that mean I'll comment on having a bad week? No because the sample size is too small and it can go either way (this morning I made 490 mil in HS in about 3.5 hours).
And then there's the issue of how stuff differs per faction space you're in. Lots of really weird differences, some of them do make sense while others are just "wtf". Given that it's very well possible that there might be differences in drop chances per faction as well (this is CCP after al, it's not like they invented logic or something), this results in person A going "wtf, changes" and B going "no changes here" simply because they operate in a different area. This is of course speculation at best but a) it wouldn't surprise me and b) it would explain the differences in (perceived) performance.
With that I'll say again what I stated earlier: given the volume of data points I have (because I do this **** a lot) and the fixed situation of doing in the same locations all the time I have noticed some fairly recent changes. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
12529
|
Posted - 2016.06.16 13:43:32 -
[46] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:I dont know. Sometimes I get a lot of drop, one after another, but some sites are feeling wrong like they give me only a overseer effects one time after another, and I am thinking when running those: "Probably another Overseer effects will drop and nothing else... why am I doing this faction, better move somewhere else..."
What if the algorithm is watching how much sites are run daily and adjustes the loot chance? So there would be no flooding of market with same kind of modules and drop of prices for those selling them. I know for a fact it doesn't work that way. Look at Guristas/pith loot. Look at Pirate Battleships (The rattlesnake got down to 350 mil for a long time). if there was some kind of adjustment function, I sure as heck wouldn't have gotten two commander spawns and 2 10/10 escalations last night.
But, while the algorith would watch this and decide if the next would drop something, you could adjust the chance of dropping it.
Its like for the 1000 sites ran daily you would get a deadspace module drop with a chance "A", and after modifications, it would be "B". After another 1000 sites from "C" it could change to "D". And so on. So the source of modules could be cut out after some amount of them being completed, but for example 1000 sites per 24h would bring up the chances again up. That was just a rough aproximation how it could work.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Test Alliance Please Ignore
14198
|
Posted - 2016.06.16 13:55:18 -
[47] - Quote
Hawke Frost wrote:A lot of people don't understand how RNG works, The whole "RNG is R lol, you're going to have good and bad days" doesn't cover it all. If you have enough data points then RNG becomes a static number. If drop chance is 50% then, with enough drops, it'll even out at 50%. But if RNG is skewed and drop chance is changed it's STILL RNG but that doesn't mean the outcome will be the same just because it's still RNG. So people who go "lol, stop whining I've been doing fine" are no better than the "waah drop chance is changed, I've been doing badly" folks they reply to.
Over the years of doing the exact same thing in PVE (combat exploration in Gallente space) I've noticed shifts back and forth in regards to drop chance, drop type, BPC chance and escalation chance. If you do a whole lot of this stuff then you will notice trends and it's not very difficult to realize that yes, there have been some changes recently (and by recently I mean "the last few months"). Does that mean I'll comment on having a bad week? No because the sample size is too small and it can go either way (this morning I made 490 mil in HS in about 3.5 hours).
And then there's the issue of how stuff differs per faction space you're in. Lots of really weird differences, some of them do make sense while others are just "wtf". Given that it's very well possible that there might be differences in drop chances per faction as well (this is CCP after al, it's not like they invented logic or something), this results in person A going "wtf, changes" and B going "no changes here" simply because they operate in a different area. This is of course speculation at best but a) it wouldn't surprise me and b) it would explain the differences in (perceived) performance.
With that I'll say again what I stated earlier: given the volume of data points I have (because I do this **** a lot) and the fixed situation of doing in the same locations all the time I have noticed some fairly recent changes.
This post is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. You're trying to quantify something that you have no way of really measuring. You'd need to know how the content is coded to figure it out completely. Almost a textbook example of Gambler's Fallacy
I know that trying to make sense of randomness is a core function of our brains, I'm as guilty of it as anyone (I did 25 refuges, i should get something!!!!). When i was in college (damn has it really been 2 decades??) I learned one of the most interesting words I ever learned. Apophenia, the tendency we have perceive meaningful patterns from random data. This discussion is proof of the phenomenon. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Test Alliance Please Ignore
14198
|
Posted - 2016.06.16 14:10:05 -
[48] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:I dont know. Sometimes I get a lot of drop, one after another, but some sites are feeling wrong like they give me only a overseer effects one time after another, and I am thinking when running those: "Probably another Overseer effects will drop and nothing else... why am I doing this faction, better move somewhere else..."
What if the algorithm is watching how much sites are run daily and adjustes the loot chance? So there would be no flooding of market with same kind of modules and drop of prices for those selling them. I know for a fact it doesn't work that way. Look at Guristas/pith loot. Look at Pirate Battleships (The rattlesnake got down to 350 mil for a long time). if there was some kind of adjustment function, I sure as heck wouldn't have gotten two commander spawns and 2 10/10 escalations last night. But, while the algorith would watch this and decide if the next would drop something, you could adjust the chance of dropping it. Its like for the 1000 sites ran daily you would get a deadspace module drop with a chance "A", and after modifications, it would be "B". After another 1000 sites from "C" it could change to "D". And so on. So the source of modules could be cut out after some amount of them being completed, but for example 1000 sites per 24h would bring up the chances again up. That was just a rough aproximation how it could work.
I have a question. WHY?
It's the underlying question I have in all discussions like this when people suggest that there could be some 'secret hand' stuff going on. Why? Why would ccp do such a thing as make some kind of hidden loot balancing system when it's a thousand times easier to just not give a damn and make it as random as they can figure? Why would they give themselves such a headache, why would they risk the ire of a basically fragile gaming community with those kinds of covert actions that could come to light if just one disgruntled employee spilled the beans after getting let go?
Look at this thread and find the others like it over the last several year. People from all over EVE space have claimed that there is some problem, while others have seen incredible and improbable drops and gains (even in high sec, where many of the complaints seem to originate). What is the most likely reason for that?
To me, the answer is that the system in play is very much most probably fine, whereas the actual 'conflict' is between people who over-expect rewards vs those of us who don't. The people like Hawke who want to believe some problem exists probably feel that way because they prefer that things be 'fixable' rather than just having to shrug and say Que Sera, Sera.
And that makes this discussion eerily similar to the ones I have at the casino I visit from time to time lol.
|
Hawke Frost
199
|
Posted - 2016.06.16 14:57:02 -
[49] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Hawke Frost wrote:A lot of people don't understand how RNG works, The whole "RNG is R lol, you're going to have good and bad days" doesn't cover it all. If you have enough data points then RNG becomes a static number. If drop chance is 50% then, with enough drops, it'll even out at 50%. But if RNG is skewed and drop chance is changed it's STILL RNG but that doesn't mean the outcome will be the same just because it's still RNG. So people who go "lol, stop whining I've been doing fine" are no better than the "waah drop chance is changed, I've been doing badly" folks they reply to.
Over the years of doing the exact same thing in PVE (combat exploration in Gallente space) I've noticed shifts back and forth in regards to drop chance, drop type, BPC chance and escalation chance. If you do a whole lot of this stuff then you will notice trends and it's not very difficult to realize that yes, there have been some changes recently (and by recently I mean "the last few months"). Does that mean I'll comment on having a bad week? No because the sample size is too small and it can go either way (this morning I made 490 mil in HS in about 3.5 hours).
And then there's the issue of how stuff differs per faction space you're in. Lots of really weird differences, some of them do make sense while others are just "wtf". Given that it's very well possible that there might be differences in drop chances per faction as well (this is CCP after al, it's not like they invented logic or something), this results in person A going "wtf, changes" and B going "no changes here" simply because they operate in a different area. This is of course speculation at best but a) it wouldn't surprise me and b) it would explain the differences in (perceived) performance.
With that I'll say again what I stated earlier: given the volume of data points I have (because I do this **** a lot) and the fixed situation of doing in the same locations all the time I have noticed some fairly recent changes. This post is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. You're trying to quantify something that you have no way of really measuring. You'd need to know how the content is coded to figure it out completely. Almost a textbook example of Gambler's Fallacy
I know that trying to make sense of randomness is a core function of our brains, I'm as guilty of it as anyone (I did 25 refuges, i should get something!!!!). When i was in college (damn has it really been 2 decades??) I learned one of the most interesting words I ever learned. Apophenia, the tendency we have perceive meaningful patterns from random data. This discussion is proof of the phenomenon.
Where is your proof that nothing changed, your statements are based on some amazing knowledge that you can't have unless you're part of CCP who's responsible for this stuff. So unless you have proof that nothing has changed I'll stick to what I see happening "in the field" (while taking into account the whole concept of averages).
As said, baseless "lol nothing happened" is just as terrible as baseless "omg changes!". |
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
360
|
Posted - 2016.06.16 15:13:34 -
[50] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Pandora Carrollon wrote: I've run about 15 sites and no escalations. I normally would have had 3 in that period.
That sums up the entire situation right there. This thread isn't about loot, it's about expectations. People aren't getting the things they (irrationally) think they should have, and that leads to the belief that ;something must be wrong. There isn't.
While I appreciate your point, making it off of one that wasn't actually intended for that purpose is a little odd. I wasn't setting an expectation, only stating what had happened in the past. I'm entirely aware this could just be a random dry spell streak, however, in the past week since I've made that post, I've run more than double that number of sites (say 30+) and gotten no escalations either. That's a heck of a dry spell and it's looking like random effect is being marginalized. I'm still fully aware that it's within reasonable possibility that it's just a dry spell, however, at what point do we say with a certain level of assuredness that it's been changed?
Like I've said, I've seen a quality of loot increase in the normal site runs. I've also seen an increase in the 'rare' types of anomalies that show up (Ore/Ice sites, etc.). They may have lowered the escalation opportunities to balance those increases out. It's only a theory but I think there's enough proof now (at least for normally skeptical me) to call it a theory and not a hypothesis. Of course, this is all HiSec stuff, I have no idea what's going on down in Lo/Null.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Test Alliance Please Ignore
14198
|
Posted - 2016.06.16 15:31:42 -
[51] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Pandora Carrollon wrote: I've run about 15 sites and no escalations. I normally would have had 3 in that period.
That sums up the entire situation right there. This thread isn't about loot, it's about expectations. People aren't getting the things they (irrationally) think they should have, and that leads to the belief that ;something must be wrong. There isn't. While I appreciate your point, making it off of one that wasn't actually intended for that purpose is a little odd. I wasn't setting an expectation, only stating what had happened in the past. I'm entirely aware this could just be a random dry spell streak, however, in the past week since I've made that post, I've run more than double that number of sites (say 30+) and gotten no escalations either. That's a heck of a dry spell and it's looking like random effect is being marginalized. I'm still fully aware that it's within reasonable possibility that it's just a dry spell, however, at what point do we say with a certain level of assuredness that it's been changed?
At a point WAY away from here. You think 30 is a dry spell? My record in high sec is in the 150 range 3 or 4 years ago in high sec. Back when I was counting and trying to quantify things. rather than actually enjoying the content.
The real answer , though is "stop counting, because all counting and trying to figure out patterns and chances can do is drive you crazy".
I tell people I know in real life the same thing when we go to the casino. My wife and I learned that the best way to enjoy yourself is to consider the money in our pockets as 'gone' before we hit the casino floor. So when we win, we are surprised and delighted. some of our 'casino buddies' come in with a 'sure fire plan' and such golden thoughts as 'stay on one machine' and 'never do max bet' and so forth and so on.
My wife and I leave the casino full (the Buffet at Winstar casino is incredible!), relaxed, happy and sometimes with more money in our pockets than we went in with. Some of those other people leave wondering where they are going to get rent money (because they just spent there's) and trying to find the phone number to gamblers anonymous.
I suggest the same to people in EVE. When farming anoms, the currency you are spending is TIME. Consider the time you will spend exploring (or playing EVE in general) as already wasted, let the escalations, faction drops and salvage come as surprises and bonuses, and enjoy yourself for the simple sake of enjoying yourself and you will have a good time. Worry about "drop rates" and "sample sizes" and "data points" and you'll not only end up miserable like a lot of these guys who run to the forum proclaiming there is a problem, you might end up farming incursions (where the rewards are predictable) and turn into a zombie. A zombie that isn't having fun lol.
Quote:
Like I've said, I've seen a quality of loot increase in the normal site runs. I've also seen an increase in the 'rare' types of anomalies that show up (Ore/Ice sites, etc.). They may have lowered the escalation opportunities to balance those increases out. It's only a theory but I think there's enough proof now (at least for normally skeptical me) to call it a theory and not a hypothesis. Of course, this is all HiSec stuff, I have no idea what's going on down in Lo/Null.
There is no real difference, if you look around various forums from no on, you will see the exact same things over and over and over and over gain like I have for the last nine years. ie people confusing what might be a personal losing streak in a randomized 'gambling' style of content as 'a serious problem that must be wide spread'. It isn't, it's the nature of the beast.
Then of course I come in and tell them about what I did in the same time period |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
12529
|
Posted - 2016.06.16 15:32:37 -
[52] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:I dont know. Sometimes I get a lot of drop, one after another, but some sites are feeling wrong like they give me only a overseer effects one time after another, and I am thinking when running those: "Probably another Overseer effects will drop and nothing else... why am I doing this faction, better move somewhere else..."
What if the algorithm is watching how much sites are run daily and adjustes the loot chance? So there would be no flooding of market with same kind of modules and drop of prices for those selling them. I know for a fact it doesn't work that way. Look at Guristas/pith loot. Look at Pirate Battleships (The rattlesnake got down to 350 mil for a long time). if there was some kind of adjustment function, I sure as heck wouldn't have gotten two commander spawns and 2 10/10 escalations last night. But, while the algorith would watch this and decide if the next would drop something, you could adjust the chance of dropping it. Its like for the 1000 sites ran daily you would get a deadspace module drop with a chance "A", and after modifications, it would be "B". After another 1000 sites from "C" it could change to "D". And so on. So the source of modules could be cut out after some amount of them being completed, but for example 1000 sites per 24h would bring up the chances again up. That was just a rough aproximation how it could work. I have a question. WHY? It's the underlying question I have in all discussions like this when people suggest that there could be some 'secret hand' stuff going on. Why? Why would ccp do such a thing as make some kind of hidden loot balancing system when it's a thousand times easier to just not give a damn and make it as random as they can figure? Why would they give themselves such a headache, why would they risk the ire of a basically fragile gaming community with those kinds of covert actions that could come to light if just one disgruntled employee spilled the beans after getting let go? Look at this thread and find the others like it over the last several year. People from all over EVE space have claimed that there is some problem, while others have seen incredible and improbable drops and gains (even in high sec, where many of the complaints seem to originate). What is the most likely reason for that? To me, the answer is that the system in play is very much most probably fine, whereas the actual 'conflict' is between people who over-expect rewards vs those of us who don't. The people like Hawke who want to believe some problem exists probably feel that way because they prefer that things be 'fixable' rather than just having to shrug and say Que Sera, Sera. And that makes this discussion e erily similar to the ones I have at the casino I visit from time to time lol.
To answer you question why they would do such a system described by me:
To keep balance to the game world and items, and prices and player activities.
In real life overfarming can be fatal for soil, farmers then be affected by dustbowls, such situation provokes humans to develop other techniques of staying alife and farming maybe somethin else, moving somewhere else, generally it generates a lot of actions.
Now take a game, and stuff only RNG generator without any algorithms and let it run infinite times for such site and players farming only one site because it have the best loot. This would generate a lot of items that are OP and very cheap, while other items would not even be on the market they would be so mediocre in comparison. That would bring a lot of mediocrity to player experience. Bringing overfarming simulation to system would bring a factor of experiencing obstacles and in return affect player activities in the direction CCP and playerbase could see as satisfactory. Playerbase of course dont have to know that CCP is directing a whole experience with these algorithms.
I think because of that there are some spawning algorithms and algorithms for loot.
Remeber, CCP is acronym for Crowd Control Games.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
361
|
Posted - 2016.06.16 16:35:31 -
[53] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:I suggest the same to people in EVE. When farming anoms, the currency you are spending is TIME. Consider the time you will spend exploring (or playing EVE in general) as already wasted, let the escalations, faction drops and salvage come as surprises and bonuses, and enjoy yourself for the simple sake of enjoying yourself and you will have a good time. Worry about "drop rates" and "sample sizes" and "data points" and you'll not only end up miserable like a lot of these guys who run to the forum proclaiming there is a problem, you might end up farming incursions (where the rewards are predictable) and turn into a zombie. A zombie that isn't having fun lol.
Time is always a currency, so common that we fail to see it as currency anymore. You can't get it back and it's finite (to you) so it becomes a non-issue until you either have that moment at death or are confronted with your mortality in some way then it's suddenly irreplaceable. Welcome to the human condition.
I'm not miserable, mearly observant. In EVE, I do what I find is fun and really don't worry about anyone else's definition of fun. I run sites because it's a way to test out ship builds and at the same time earn some of the ISK back that I get from doing the ship builds. It's also good combat practice which I've gotten much better at than when I first started.
So, all I'm tossing out here is my observed empirical experience with the issue being discussed. Yes, I agree I could be in a long, long dry spell, but maybe someone at CCP is actually paying attention to these threads and poked their nose into the RNG to make certain it was still breathing properly. If so, then all is right with New Eden and I shall endeavor to continue to throttle pirates.
What's scary is my little T1 Algos destroyer is now as lethal at clearing Refuge level sites as my T2 cruiser is!
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
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Galaxxis
Unicorn Rampage
147
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Posted - 2016.06.16 16:57:28 -
[54] - Quote
I'm still getting drops and escalations at a normal rate. In fact I got a Gila blueprint from a Gurista Scout Outpost, which I've never seen before. And I got my first-ever hallucinogen facility escalation. So it seems to be working as intended. |
Geip
Uncle Zuran's Safari Compounds
0
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Posted - 2016.06.20 16:56:31 -
[55] - Quote
I've run a few Serpentis 1/10 and 2/10 in the last two days and gotten good drops. Maybe I was lucky, but that's a data point. I was in lowsec, although I'd be surprised if that affects the drop chances for sites of the same type. |
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