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Hulks are MASSIVELY underpriced!

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Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.03.02 06:52:00 - [1] Edited by: Mortania on 02/03/2007 06:48:17 Using the standard yearly operating costs that applied to the purchase price of all t2 bpos, I've discovered that the fair market value price of all hulks is in fact: 15.746 Billion ISK, per. This represents the difference between a max'd Exhumer pilot vs. a max'd Covetor pilot mining Omber for a year. By my simple calculations this means Hulks are going for only 3% of their Fair Market Value. Sounds like a massive bargain to me. ---
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2007.03.02 06:54:00 - [2] you're on a roll that one gets a 9/10 ! (you forgot the ticktock) ------ Relaxed corp recruiting
Hiroko Fujiwara	Posted - 2007.03.02 06:58:00 - [3] is there still room for the trolling award of the year?! cuz mortania sure is fighting hard to get it
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.03.02 07:03:00 - [4] It could also be argued that T2 BPOs are massively overpriced going by the standard Hulk pricing formula of build price x ~17. By that formula T2 BPOs should be free since they're build price is 0! t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.03.02 07:10:00 - [5] Originally by: Azerrad InExile It could also be argued that T2 BPOs are massively overpriced going by the standard Hulk pricing formula of build price x ~17. By that formula T2 BPOs should be free since they're build price is 0! Your ignorance is showing. Production and unlocking of T2 BPOs is not zero (see my other thread). People have claimed it takes no effort and costs nothing to capitalize on T2 BPOs, and yet, somehow, when offered FREE T2 BPCs, no one wants them. Something doesn't add up. ---
Revolution Rising Minmatar Venture Research and Resources	Posted - 2007.03.02 07:11:00 - [6] Edited by: Revolution Rising on 02/03/2007 07:09:18 Reads: Here's a vastly oversimplified assumption driven argumentative rationalisation to forward my theory that I should have game-unbalancing wealth forever more. RR. edit: spelling error, who would've thunk it? "I'm mostly a miner, but in your case, I'll make an exception... F1, F2, F3..." -- Venture Research and Resources
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.03.02 07:13:00 - [7] Originally by: Mortania Your ignorance is showing. Production and unlocking of T2 BPOs is not zero (see my other thread). People have claimed it takes no effort and costs nothing to capitalize on T2 BPOs, and yet, somehow, when offered FREE T2 BPCs, no one wants them. Something doesn't add up. The point is you can't necessarily apply the pricing scheme of one product to another. Otherwise you get situations like 15b isk Hulks and free T2 BPOs. t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.03.02 07:14:00 - [8] Originally by: Revolution Rising Edited by: Revolution Rising on 02/03/2007 07:09:18 Reads: Here's a vastly oversimplified assumption driven argumentative rationalisation to forward my theory that I should have game-unbalancing wealth forever more. RR. edit: spelling error, who would've thunk it? You can take advantage of my massively game-unbalancing wealth forever for free* if you'd like, see my other thread. ---
Revolution Rising Minmatar Venture Research and Resources	Posted - 2007.03.02 07:21:00 - [9] Supporting your original rationalisation with a grand gesture to the community doesn't make it any less a rationalisation. Have you considered a career in politics? RR. "I'm mostly a miner, but in your case, I'll make an exception... F1, F2, F3..." -- Venture Research and Resources
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.03.02 07:23:00 - [10] Originally by: Revolution Rising Supporting your original rationalisation with a grand gesture to the community doesn't make it any less a rationalisation. Have you considered a career in politics? RR. For only 1B isk I will sell you the URL to my secret ISK making scheme in EVE. You too can be your own T2 Cartel! Trillions of ISK are yours for the taking! Operators are standing by! ---

Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.03.02 07:25:00 - [11] Is it a pro-T2 forum spamming night?
Revolution Rising Minmatar Venture Research and Resources	Posted - 2007.03.02 07:26:00 - [12] Now you're trying to bribe me. You ARE a politician! RR. "I'm mostly a miner, but in your case, I'll make an exception... F1, F2, F3..." -- Venture Research and Resources
Adam Weishaupt Minmatar Illumination Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.02 07:47:00 - [13] I think 500 is a good price. It's round, it's stable, it makes the BPO owners ridiculously rich, and obligates your average Exhumers 5 pilot to something like 30-40 hours of high end mining, assuming no problems and all the best equipment to reach positive return on investment. If anything was ever underpriced, it was the Skiff when Morphite was still worth 12000+, you could break ROI on your first mining op...
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.03.02 07:55:00 - [14] Originally by: Adam Weishaupt I think 500 is a good price. It's round, it's stable, it makes the BPO owners ridiculously rich, and obligates your average Exhumers 5 pilot to something like 30-40 hours of high end mining, assuming no problems and all the best equipment to reach positive return on investment. If anything was ever underpriced, it was the Skiff when Morphite was still worth 12000+, you could break ROI on your first mining op... It's generally crept up from there. ---
Trina Tron Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.03.02 08:10:00 - [15] Stop posting. ----------------------------------- Originally by: Santiago Cortes Locked Begging is not allowed or appreciated on the forums. Whining remains perfectly acceptable.
Zaqar	Posted - 2007.03.02 08:17:00 - [16] loony
Topaz Skydiver Minmatar Narrative Freshfood	Posted - 2007.03.02 08:24:00 - [17] Originally by: Adam Weishaupt If anything was ever underpriced, it was the Skiff when Morphite was still worth 12000+, you could break ROI on your first mining op... Except that you need a system with low true sec. rating to mine it and that it was already more profitable to mine arkonor, bistot, crokite and maybe even dark ochre (nocx around 500isk) with a covetor during that time than to mine mercoxit with a skiff.
hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.03.02 08:40:00 - [18] good post should be worth more thankfully its not
Caligulus Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.03.02 09:15:00 - [19] Your logic is flawed. No tool is useful without a user. No user is useful without a tool. You cannot attribute the value of the tool based on the labour of the user. For you see in fact, you've made the gross miscalculation of combining the value of the user and the value of the tool. FTW.
Barbarellas Daughter	Posted - 2007.03.02 09:22:00 - [20] I hope they ban you for account sharing. How else could you mine 23/7? Or macro mining.... Imagine there are casual players, playing some hours a week. I doubt they spend all their time with mining. So even if they mine half of their eve time (which is quite much) the payback time is a little bit higher than u think it is. Of course it would be nice if they charge power-macro-sharing-toons like u 15b and the non-retarded people a reasonable price. Now i wrote 5 min for your post and couldnt mine in this time. You owe me 10m.

Reverend Revelator Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.03.02 09:42:00 - [21] So, let me guess: You spent 5b on a t2 SMARTBOMB BPO, and now they are getting nerfed back to the stoneage? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! -- Dead People Laugh At The Murder Of Love --
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.03.02 09:43:00 - [22] Originally by: Barbarellas Daughter I hope they ban you for account sharing. How else could you mine 23/7? Or macro mining.... Imagine there are casual players, playing some hours a week. I doubt they spend all their time with mining. So even if they mine half of their eve time (which is quite much) the payback time is a little bit higher than u think it is. Of course it would be nice if they charge power-macro-sharing-toons like u 15b and the non-retarded people a reasonable price. Now i wrote 5 min for your post and couldnt mine in this time. You owe me 10m. 2 monitors FTW! CCP is welcome to investigate my account. No one besides me, NOT EVEN MY WIFE, has ever logged into this account. ---
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.03.02 09:43:00 - [23] Originally by: Reverend Revelator So, let me guess: You spent 5b on a t2 SMARTBOMB BPO, and now they are getting nerfed back to the stoneage? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Keen observation. Or, not so much. ---
Quilan Ziller Gallente Children of Azathoth	Posted - 2007.03.02 09:44:00 - [24] Yeah, right. People were refusing free EMP Smartbomb II BPCs (or, rather, were not interested). There are T2 BPOs and there are T2 BPOs. When someone utters the words "T2 BPO", he usually means "Hulk BPO", or "Ishtar BPO" or "Hammerhead II BPO", not "Spodumain Mining Crystal BPO". When people say that Hulks are overpriced, they do not mean that purchasing a Hulk does not make economic sense (it does - that is why they sell even for 550 mil). What people mean is that Hulk BPO owners are greedy bastards, and they are making money out of nothing - with no risk and no competition. Now, please, do not beat up a dead horse and argue that most poor hardworkiong BPO owners have purchased their prints for billions of iskies. You get no sympathy here. Yes, there are also people who have paid 300 or 400 million for a single unit of Zydrine. So what? Me (and other anti-BPO people) are arguing from the point of game mechanics. Current game mechanics is such that a Hulk BPO owner is getting an ungodly profit with a relatively small time and skill investment, and with absolutely ZERO risk. There is NO other occupation in game that would provide THAT kind of profit with THAT little effort. Ergo, T2 BPOs (and I don't mean Veldspar Mining Crystal II BPOs - I mean "good" BPOs) have to be nerfed - heavily into the ground. Either they have to be eliminated (BPO->BPC), or the competing ways of making T2 stuff (Invention etc) have to be significantly buffed to create some real competition. T2 manufacturing has to require effort. HACs should cost 10 times ore more than T1 cruisers. But the people who are basically printing ISK now with impunity have to have their printers taken from them one way or the other. And, no, seeding more T2 BPOs with the lottery is not the solution. ______________________________________________________________ Of course the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you--if you don't play, you can't win. - Robert Heinlein
Quilan Ziller Gallente Children of Azathoth	Posted - 2007.03.02 09:46:00 - [25] And one more thing.... If the smartie BPO is so bad - why even complain about the possible nerf? It sucks, right? (Just kidding. I know what you are talking about. But nobody is actually proposing to take the BPOs away without any compensation, so your income probably won't suffer much). ______________________________________________________________ Of course the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you--if you don't play, you can't win. - Robert Heinlein
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.03.02 09:52:00 - [26] Originally by: Quilan Ziller ...ZERO risk... I don't think you've ever been war-dec'd by 3 corps simultaneously. EVE is a primarily PvP game. Nothing has ZERO risk. And several of the T2 BPOs you listed can be made into good money makers. People want stuff for free without effort. The problem is in supply. If you had the BPO you'd charge what the market could bare as well. It's not GREED. It's an open market. If you don't charge what the market will bear, someone will buy up your T2 goods and resell them for the profit they will earn. This is why BIG and other producers who refused to increase pricing had cues of multiple years on all of their goods. Fat lot good that was doing anyone. ---
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.03.02 09:54:00 - [27] PPS: I have no knowledge of any Smartbomb nerfing. I guess I have some reading to do. I didn't select the SB BPO because of any recent news. It was a T2 BPO which we never operate because the profit is less than most T1 BPOs we operate. ---
Malcanis Galactech Industries Ltd. Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.02 10:06:00 - [28] Originally by: Mortania Originally by: Azerrad InExile It could also be argued that T2 BPOs are massively overpriced going by the standard Hulk pricing formula of build price x ~17. By that formula T2 BPOs should be free since they're build price is 0! Your ignorance is showing. Production and unlocking of T2 BPOs is not zero (see my other thread). People have claimed it takes no effort and costs nothing to capitalize on T2 BPOs, and yet, somehow, when offered FREE T2 BPCs, no one wants them. Something doesn't add up. I accept your challenge: I'll accept 10 Hulk BPCs from you and try to make some ISK with them, and will post a full report of the results. Disclosure: I have never produced anything industrially within EVE.
SN3263827 The Black Rabbits Fatal Persuasion	Posted - 2007.03.02 11:15:00 - [29] When a miner can (legally) make isk while afk, as a T2 producer can by assigning build jobs, your argument on ROI will hold water. At the moment it resembles a sieve. Time spent at keyboard moving minerals to and from cans/cargohold does not equate to time spent in bed while a factory slot churns out vagabonds, even during DT. _____________________________________________
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.02 11:32:00 - [30] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 02/03/2007 11:29:40 Originally by: Quilan Ziller What people mean is that Hulk BPO owners are greedy bastards, and they are making money out of nothing - with no risk and no competition. Now, please, do not beat up a dead horse and argue that most poor hardworkiong BPO owners have purchased their prints for billions of iskies. You get no sympathy here. Yes, there are also people who have paid 300 or 400 million for a single unit of Zydrine. So what? Greedy? No, its called capitalism. In capitalism, you produce an item and sell at the market price. The market decides what the price is. In this case, there is a static supply curve, which intersects the demand curve around 500 million. And so that is where people sell at. There is no one person in eve "choosing" what the hulk price is. If I sold Hulks at 200m (no I don't have a BPO), someone would buy them up and put them back at the market price. There are only two ways to drop the hulk price. One is to increase supply (i.e. fix invention so it works for Hulks, yes, I mean you CCP), and the other is to decrease demand, i.e. stop buying them! Originally by: Quilan Ziller Me (and other anti-BPO people) are arguing from the point of game mechanics. Current game mechanics is such that a Hulk BPO owner is getting an ungodly profit with a relatively small time and skill investment, and with absolutely ZERO risk. There is NO other occupation in game that would provide THAT kind of profit with THAT little effort. Um, I would call paying 80 billion for a BPO that might be worthless when invention is fixed to allow the invention of Hulks a huge risk. EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard



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