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Senicided
Scramicide
0
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Posted - 2016.06.22 23:36:06 -
[1] - Quote
So i just came back to EVE after years away so im starting again basically as a new player. i had to relearn almost everything because so much has changed. I started doing missions in highsec lvl4's and twice now ive been hunted down in my mission and ganked. .7 space both times. Im in pretty a tanky PVE fit (tengu) so it took them at least 45 seconds to kill me i didnt do anything until they were though my shields and it was clear i was dead then i shot back (because why not at that point.
I also remember having a really good chance to get away in your pod but this time i was isntantly locked and warp scram before the game could even register my trying to warp away. (i dont lag i was locked and scramed basically as i was ejecting)
So my question is where the hell is Concord... i looked up there response times and the information i can find says they should have been there in less than 20 seconds but it was at least twice that and nothing...
any tips would be appreciated i had a decent bankroll from when i played years ago but at this rate it won't last long.
my return to eve will probably be short lived if this is what it's like now.
Thanks, |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
55530
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Posted - 2016.06.23 00:06:21 -
[2] - Quote
Well, sorry to hear your return to Eve has been a gank fest. The only explanation I can think of is your corp has been WarDec'ed.
If not then there's definitely something wrong, submitting a Support Ticket should provide some helpful insight into the reason why this is happening.
Now for the good stuff. No matter what security sector of space you're in, act like everyone is out to get you. After entering a mission or exploration site, get distance from the landing point asap. Always run D-scan for Combat probes and if someone lands on grid with you, be ready to warp out asap.. If a player target locks you, don't fire until they fire on you, then quickly unleash hell on them. In high security space if you're attacked, don't wait on Concord to show up, either warp out or return fire asap.
Anyway, I hope this helps and that you stay with the game. Just remember flying smart will help keep you safe.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Senicided
Scramicide
1
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Posted - 2016.06.23 00:21:02 -
[3] - Quote
Thanks for the reply i checked and my corp is not in an wars. good advice on d scan ill admit i was a bit lazy it just never crossed my mind that it could happen.
Does someone get flagged criminal if they warpscam/web you? or do they have to shoot you? there were not cheap suicide gank ships that killed me the tackler came in first and closed distance before i could warp out (i tried as soon as i saw the yellow name on screen warp in). he web/scamed me and just held me while orbiting at some insane speed until his friends showed up. then they all opened up at once (still took a good bit to kill me like i said at least 45sec).
ill put in a ticket i guess just so i can understand what happened.
Thanks again, |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26228
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Posted - 2016.06.23 00:56:16 -
[4] - Quote
I took a look at the killboards, the guys who shot you look to be mission baiters and working together. Aside from a bug, which is fairly unlikely as crimewatch in its current form has been around for a while now and it would have showed up before, raise a support ticket anyway if none of the following applies, there's only a couple of ways that they can kill you without Concord showing up.
We can discount wardecs because as you say your corp isn't at war, and the people who killed you are in an NPC corp anyway. That leaves flagging, how is your safety set? did you perhaps loot a can or do anything else that gives you a suspect flag?
As for getting your pod out, you need to be spamming the warp button before your ship explodes, 25-30% hull is a good time to start doing it. See here for more details and some gratuitous Jessica Alba
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Senicided
Scramicide
2
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Posted - 2016.06.23 02:05:04 -
[5] - Quote
Im set to Green. like i said i just started again im just getting a feel for it again and i dont want anything to do with PVP yet. i was doing missions i had killed everything and was just headed back to a acc gate. he warped in and scram/webbed me before i could warp away. i couldnt really do anything so i just kinda sat and waited. 10 sec later his buddies warped in and id say 45-60 sec later i was dead. i only started shooting back when they were all shooting me and i didnt get any warnings when i attacked. i was spamming to warp like you say at 25% hull (lets face it i was spamming it long before that because i was in a panic because concord didnt show up) my ship blew and before my pod even started to align/move/become controlable i was locked/scamed and 1 sec later dead.
i opened a ticket so hopefully they at least explain what happened.
Thanks for all your help guys,
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
6192
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Posted - 2016.06.23 02:21:49 -
[6] - Quote
Looking at your aggressor's history ...
By any chance were you using a mobile tractor unit? (MTU)
Shooting a MTU earns a suspect flag. A green safety won't protect you from shooting a suspect, which creates a limited engagement, allowing him to shoot you.
Seems to be his modus operandi. |
Senicided
Scramicide
2
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Posted - 2016.06.23 02:48:40 -
[7] - Quote
No MTU nothing on my ship but HAMs and tank/ab |
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
229
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Posted - 2016.06.23 06:12:55 -
[8] - Quote
Umm... did you turn yourself flashy yellow?
A signature :o
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2619
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Posted - 2016.06.23 10:28:57 -
[9] - Quote
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:Umm... did you turn yourself flashy yellow? Killright activation? Check your first loss mail whether there is an "on behalf of" flag on the top left part ...
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1531
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Posted - 2016.06.23 10:39:24 -
[10] - Quote
He's never killed another player so impossible to have killrights |
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
16447
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Posted - 2016.06.23 10:41:07 -
[11] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:He's never killed another player so impossible to have killrights you get the kill right for aggression , not for killing so its entirely possible to get one without killing anyone
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1531
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Posted - 2016.06.23 10:47:19 -
[12] - Quote
He's got no pod kills and no deaths to concord so that rules that out also |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26229
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Posted - 2016.06.23 11:04:51 -
[13] - Quote
When I checked zkill yesterday his most recent losses were 2 pods 22 jumps apart within a couple of hours of each other, but no Tengu's; I just checked again and still no Tengus's, not sure what's going on there
If Zkill is accurate with the locations and given that the same guy is on both podmails I would say that the OP has either been extremely unlucky, has pissed someone off, or is falling victim to a mechanic that has yet to be determined.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
5842
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Posted - 2016.06.23 11:10:35 -
[14] - Quote
I would assume that your rival has stolen some of 'your' loot and you have shot them thinking they were an NPC.
I've certainly been the aggressor in situations like that. It's fun - I highly recommend probing down mission runners, stealing something from them or shooting their MTU, then if they shoot you (which is legal), you can counterattack freely for at least 5 minutes.
I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2619
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Posted - 2016.06.23 11:10:47 -
[15] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:He's got no pod kills and no deaths to concord so that rules that out also The involved persons are not API verified ... hence kills are missing to show up in public.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Sitting Bull Lakota
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
92
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Posted - 2016.06.23 11:24:06 -
[16] - Quote
I assume that by acc gate, you mean acceleration gate. You were finished with the room, but you weren't quite ready to turn the mission in. I have a few questions: Did you see either of the two ships turn yellow? Did they come to your mission earlier? Did the tackler's name in the overview change color after he targetted you? What color was his friend's name when he warped in?
I simply do not know. |
Senicided
Scramicide
4
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Posted - 2016.06.23 13:49:04 -
[17] - Quote
The Tackler was yellow when he warped in. i did not shoot at him.
his friends turned yellow when they attacked me.
they had not visted me earlier.
ive been back playing for a grand total of like 3 days now so i have no idea how anyone would have killrights.
im not accusing them of cheating im just a noob thats trying to understand how to prevent this from happening again. i thought i was safe, i did what i remember doing when i played years ago (survive long enough for concord to save me).
I'm not accusing anyone of cheating I'm not really even upset I'm simply trying to understand what/how it happened.
So after reading all the reply's I'm going to chalk this one up as i got @#$%$@. and were done.
Thanks again everyone lots of good info and advice i appreciate it. |
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
963
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Posted - 2016.06.23 14:04:29 -
[18] - Quote
It's possible he shot one of your rats so that the wreck was owned by him. So you looted it and became yellow. It's also possible that he looted a wreck and dropped a canister so that you looted it and became yellow.
My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
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Solonius Rex
F0RCED ENTRY
331
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Posted - 2016.06.23 14:05:35 -
[19] - Quote
Senicided wrote:The Tackler was yellow when he warped in. i did not shoot at him.
his friends turned yellow when they attacked me.
they had not visted me earlier.
ive been back playing for a grand total of like 3 days now so i have no idea how anyone would have killrights.
im not accusing them of cheating im just a noob thats trying to understand how to prevent this from happening again. i thought i was safe, i did what i remember doing when i played years ago (survive long enough for concord to save me).
I'm not accusing anyone of cheating I'm not really even upset I'm simply trying to understand what/how it happened.
So after reading all the reply's I'm going to chalk this one up as i got @#$%$@. and were done.
Thanks again everyone lots of good info and advice i appreciate it. Maybe they were using... snowballs? And you thought the npc damage was from them, and you shot back, giving them the ability to shoot you. |
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
385
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Posted - 2016.06.23 14:32:38 -
[20] - Quote
Iria Ahrens wrote:It's possible he shot one of your rats so that the wreck was owned by him. So you looted it and became yellow. It's also possible that he looted a wreck and dropped a canister so that you looted it and became yellow.
If your safety is on, you can't loot a wreck that isn't yours, at least in the tests I've done you can't.
It's possible they baited Concord to the far side of the system which will slow the response, but 45 seconds should be enough to get Concord about anywhere in any system.
If someone has found a way around HiSec mechanics, that's a game kick offense so I'm interested to see the outcome.
These guys have to be 100% cocky confident in their approach because you can't take down a Tengu with a cheap ship so standard Suicide Gank mechanics would not be in play. That means they must know of the loophole they are exploiting.
Is it possible this site is in some kind of grid black hole that Concord can't respond to?
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
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Senicided
Scramicide
4
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Posted - 2016.06.23 15:08:06 -
[21] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:Iria Ahrens wrote:It's possible he shot one of your rats so that the wreck was owned by him. So you looted it and became yellow. It's also possible that he looted a wreck and dropped a canister so that you looted it and became yellow. If your safety is on, you can't loot a wreck that isn't yours, at least in the tests I've done you can't. It's possible they baited Concord to the far side of the system which will slow the response, but 45 seconds should be enough to get Concord about anywhere in any system. If someone has found a way around HiSec mechanics, that's a game kick offense so I'm interested to see the outcome. These guys have to be 100% cocky confident in their approach because you can't take down a Tengu with a cheap ship so standard Suicide Gank mechanics would not be in play. That means they must know of the loophole they are exploiting. Is it possible this site is in some kind of grid black hole that Concord can't respond to?
The only thing im 100% sure of is that i didnt shoot back until i was totally %#%#!ed. as far as how everything else works, ive already said im a noob thats why im here. I have a ticket in so hopefully they will shed some light on what happened. i will report back.
I just want to reiterate that im not here crying or accusing anyone of cheating im just confused and looking for answers
Thanks again everyone.
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Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
963
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Posted - 2016.06.23 15:09:03 -
[22] - Quote
Senicided wrote:
So after reading all the reply's I'm going to chalk this one up as i got @#$%$@. and were done.
Thanks again everyone lots of good info and advice i appreciate it.
In general, you seem to have the right attitude. But it is important to figure out how you get screwed, and not just acknowledge that you did.
Also, we are all curious now if this was a trick or an exploit. There are mechanics in place to prevent many tricks against newbies.
Unfortunately, that ticket might take a while, like days or more than a week. They are pretty busy right now. So don't let it stop your play.
My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
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Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
69
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Posted - 2016.06.23 15:11:10 -
[23] - Quote
Senicided wrote:The Tackler was yellow when he warped in. i did not shoot at him.
his friends turned yellow when they attacked me.
they had not visted me earlier.
ive been back playing for a grand total of like 3 days now so i have no idea how anyone would have killrights.
im not accusing them of cheating im just a noob thats trying to understand how to prevent this from happening again. i thought i was safe, i did what i remember doing when i played years ago (survive long enough for concord to save me).
I'm not accusing anyone of cheating I'm not really even upset I'm simply trying to understand what/how it happened.
So after reading all the reply's I'm going to chalk this one up as i got @#$%$@. and were done.
Thanks again everyone lots of good info and advice i appreciate it. A common tactic is for a suspect flagged (yellow) player to warp in - he then jettison's some junk, possibly names it the same thing as your character or your ship. He will then *target* you (yellow flashing box) and warp scramble *his own container*. For some reason this generates a public announcement that tells you he has warp scrambled whatever he named his container - which as I say he probably renamed to match your name/ship. However, he *did not* aggress *you* at this time - he only targeted you.
His friends then warped in and started remote repairing him - thus generating suspect flags for themselves and turning yellow. They may also have warp scrambled his container to generate more messages to make you *think* you were being attacked.
As soon as you shot one of them, they turned blue/green - indicating that you had activated a "limited engagement" with them - giving them permission to legally shoot you. The more you shot, the more who were allowed to shoot you.
It is hard to be 100% sure since you didn't know what to look for and memories are fallible - but this is my best guess as to what happened to you. Does it sound close to the sequence of events?
You will know if you are ever actually being suicide ganked because the player will turn *solid RED* as soon as they aggress you in any way.
Similarly had you been at war they would blink red. |
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
963
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Posted - 2016.06.23 15:15:14 -
[24] - Quote
Wow, that's pretty tricky, would probably even fool me for a few seconds. The things they do in HS....
My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2621
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Posted - 2016.06.23 15:29:43 -
[25] - Quote
Some cool hints here, need to try this ...
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
70
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Posted - 2016.06.23 15:31:51 -
[26] - Quote
Iria Ahrens wrote:Wow, that's pretty tricky, would probably even fool me for a few seconds. The things they do in HS.... High sec, low-sec, null-sec, or even WH space - it always pays know learn all of the dirty tricks for any area of space you operate in. Even if you don't exploit them yourself, you need to know how to defend against them.
@ Tipa - Have Fun and Good Luck lol |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26234
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Posted - 2016.06.23 15:41:56 -
[27] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:A common tactic is for a suspect flagged (yellow) player to warp in - he then jettison's some junk, possibly names it the same thing as your character or your ship. He will then *target* you (yellow flashing box) and warp scramble *his own container*. For some reason this generates a public announcement that tells you he has warp scrambled whatever he named his container - which as I say he probably renamed to match your name/ship. However, he *did not* aggress *you* at this time - he only targeted you.
His friends then warped in and started remote repairing him - thus generating suspect flags for themselves and turning yellow. They may also have warp scrambled his container to generate more messages to make you *think* you were being attacked.
As soon as you shot one of them, they turned blue/green - indicating that you had activated a "limited engagement" with them - giving them permission to legally shoot you. The more you shot, the more who were allowed to shoot you.
It is hard to be 100% sure since you didn't know what to look for and memories are fallible - but this is my best guess as to what happened to you. Does it sound close to the sequence of events? Interesting, I've not come across this. That's some pretty inventive use of game mechanics right there, bravo to whoever came up with that one.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
963
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Posted - 2016.06.23 16:57:18 -
[28] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Iria Ahrens wrote:Wow, that's pretty tricky, would probably even fool me for a few seconds. The things they do in HS.... High sec, low-sec, null-sec, or even WH space - it always pays know/learn all of the dirty tricks for any area of space you operate in. Even if you don't exploit them yourself, you need to know how to defend against them. @ Tipa - Have Fun and Good Luck lol
Truly. That is why I hang out in this board. Never stop learning in this game.
My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
6194
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Posted - 2016.06.23 17:59:10 -
[29] - Quote
For what it is worth, your aggressor, if still played by the same person, appears to be an old hand at ganking mission runners.
He's not fresh off the farm, and has a history of using advanced tactics (some of which were later deemed exploits by CCP, and nerfed or made impossible).
Certainly don't be too concerned about having fallen victim to such a committed specialist. |
Senicided
Scramicide
4
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Posted - 2016.06.23 18:33:23 -
[30] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Senicided wrote:The Tackler was yellow when he warped in. i did not shoot at him.
his friends turned yellow when they attacked me.
they had not visted me earlier.
ive been back playing for a grand total of like 3 days now so i have no idea how anyone would have killrights.
im not accusing them of cheating im just a noob thats trying to understand how to prevent this from happening again. i thought i was safe, i did what i remember doing when i played years ago (survive long enough for concord to save me).
I'm not accusing anyone of cheating I'm not really even upset I'm simply trying to understand what/how it happened.
So after reading all the reply's I'm going to chalk this one up as i got @#$%$@. and were done.
Thanks again everyone lots of good info and advice i appreciate it. A common tactic is for a suspect flagged (yellow) player to warp in - he then jettison's some junk, possibly names it the same thing as your character or your ship. He will then *target* you (yellow flashing box) and warp scramble *his own container*. For some reason this generates a public announcement that tells you he has warp scrambled whatever he named his container - which as I say he probably renamed to match your name/ship. However, he *did not* aggress *you* at this time - he only targeted you. His friends then warped in and started remote repairing him - thus generating suspect flags for themselves and turning yellow. They may also have warp scrambled his container to generate more messages to make you *think* you were being attacked. As soon as you shot one of them, they turned blue/green - indicating that you had activated a "limited engagement" with them - giving them permission to legally shoot you. The more you shot, the more who were allowed to shoot you. It is hard to be 100% sure since you didn't know what to look for and memories are fallible - but this is my best guess as to what happened to you. Does it sound close to the sequence of events? You will know if you are ever actually being suicide ganked because the player will turn *solid RED* as soon as they aggress you in any way. Similarly had you been at war they would blink red.
thats some super complicated trolling going on there.. lol i like it.
but no i dont loot i just kill all the rats loot the one thing i need to to complete the mission.
The event went down in this order.
1.) I had the first room of the mission cleared and was heading to the acel gate. the guy warped in and closed distance really fast and warpscram/web me before i could react and warp out (i was a bit slow but i honestly didnt think he was gonna gank me) he was already yellow. and i remember thinking to myself... "does web/scram count as hostile action??? or does he have to shoot me?"
2.) more rats spawned (i assume because i got closer to the gate and triggered them) his friends jumped in about the same time. (i know what your thinking i was not killed by the rats it was like 3-4 of them and the tengu doesnt give a %#%# about that kinda damage even while not moving)
3.) They started shooting me at this point i have no idea what color the tags were i wasn't paying attention to anything but my HP)
4.) when my shields got really low (at least 30 seconds) and it was clear i gonna die i shot back at the cruiser sized attacker. (yea im not good at IDing ships yet)
i died (again at least 45 sec) and got podded (instantly which left me in shock at how fast they targeted my pod)
the whole time i was basically just thinking "concord will be here any second just stay alive" but they just never came.
Anyway when i get the ticket back ill make sure to report back.
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