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Morgan North Dark-Rising Wrecking Machine. 151	Posted - 2016.07.12 12:35:54 - [1] - Quote Like the title, but my question is, why? I've been seeing several fits using these, but I've yet to understand why this has become to mainstream in the past few years?
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 3298	Posted - 2016.07.12 12:41:23 - [2] - Quote speed tanking is a thing FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 16801	Posted - 2016.07.12 12:45:12 - [3] - Quote Also good gtfo option, you are a good deal harder to hold still. Better the Devil you know. =]\|[=
Morgan North Dark-Rising Wrecking Machine. 151	Posted - 2016.07.12 12:47:38 - [4] - Quote Speed tanking is great, if you can turn. Usually not so much with a oversized prop. And as for getting out, wouldn't that be solved with increasing the afterburner velocity bonus? Perhaps its a time to make the afterburner for the proper size, better?
Kolodi Ramal Sanxing 115	Posted - 2016.07.12 12:48:49 - [5] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: speed tanking is a thing It's a fun thing.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 3298	Posted - 2016.07.12 12:53:32 - [6] - Quote Morgan North wrote: Speed tanking is great, if you can turn. Usually not so much with a oversized prop. And as for getting out, wouldn't that be solved with increasing the afterburner velocity bonus? Perhaps its a time to make the afterburner for the proper size, better? usually makes things easier with a nanofibre fitted FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Sustrai Aditua Intandofisa 364	Posted - 2016.07.12 13:31:54 - [7] - Quote Came expecting a discussion on cup sizes. Left wondering where everyone's imaginations went. If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 16802	Posted - 2016.07.12 13:33:50 - [8] - Quote Morgan North wrote: Speed tanking is great, if you can turn. Usually not so much with a oversized prop. And as for getting out, wouldn't that be solved with increasing the afterburner velocity bonus? it is what it is, some love it (i do) diferant style of flying. sure that would "fix it" but going with an oversize ab has its ups and downs, its one of those things you have to make a lot of compromise for and rightly so in my mind so i dont think it needs fixing per-say. it only becomes problematic when we figure out a ship that allows for it without enough compromises i.e. pre-nerf confessor. Better the Devil you know. =]\|[=
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 3299	Posted - 2016.07.12 13:45:08 - [9] - Quote i have 2 orthrus, one with oversized a/b and the other with mwd + asb, i just love shield repping ships so tend to fly the asb version more but the 100mn is still pretty damn good FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 16802	Posted - 2016.07.12 13:51:49 - [10] - Quote iv had a ham legion for like 3 years with a 100mn ab on it, still going. Better the Devil you know. =]\|[=
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 251	Posted - 2016.07.12 13:53:32 - [11] - Quote Sustrai Aditua wrote: Came expecting a discussion on cup sizes. Left wondering where everyone's imaginations went. I think they got squashed into the chestplate of that SoE armor. A signature :o
Dirty Forum Alt Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 166	Posted - 2016.07.12 13:55:23 - [12] - Quote Morgan North wrote: Perhaps its a time to make the afterburner for the proper size, better? Amen - bring on the 500% speed bonus afterburners and throw away the MWD forever
Lady Ayeipsia Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 1130	Posted - 2016.07.12 14:07:22 - [13] - Quote Dirty Forum Alt wrote: Morgan North wrote: Perhaps its a time to make the afterburner for the proper size, better? Amen - bring on the 500% speed bonus afterburners and throw away the MWD forever Only if balanced by warp scam shutting down the AB.
Dirty Forum Alt Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 167	Posted - 2016.07.12 14:17:41 - [14] - Quote Lady Ayeipsia wrote: Dirty Forum Alt wrote: Morgan North wrote: Perhaps its a time to make the afterburner for the proper size, better? Amen - bring on the 500% speed bonus afterburners and throw away the MWD forever Only if balanced by warp scam shutting down the AB. No no no, we don't need any of that >,>
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 16804	Posted - 2016.07.12 14:21:07 - [15] - Quote Lady Ayeipsia wrote: Dirty Forum Alt wrote: Morgan North wrote: Perhaps its a time to make the afterburner for the proper size, better? Amen - bring on the 500% speed bonus afterburners and throw away the MWD forever Only if balanced by warp scam shutting down the AB. DONT RUIN IT FOR US!!!!111!!!11!!! one Better the Devil you know. =]\|[=
Valkin Mordirc 2179	Posted - 2016.07.12 14:37:06 - [16] - Quote Using an oversized AB has a number of benefits and a number of negatives. Only certain ships can use them, ones with AB bonuses like the Phantasm and Tengu, and others with High native velocities. Like the Svip and Orthrus. Generally however you want to be linked and have at least mid grade snakes in order to get up to a fair speed. Ships that don't use a whole lot of capacitor are good to use as well. Missiles are great because they don't care about how fast you are going like turrets will. The positives are, you are very hard to lock down, even with webs the mass that the AB adds to your ship will allow to drift out of most web ranges, being an AB you are not affected by scrams. You have a high velocity without having the sig bloom from a MWD, so once your up to speed your ability to stay on the field will be far more favorable. Also a lot of people will not know how to handle oversized AB ships. So they may have troubles locking you down even if they have the answer in their fleet comp. Negatives are that the oversized AB will take a lot of fitting space, if you do have to turn you'll turn like ******* aircraft carrier. So try not to do that. (At least try not to make a sharp turn, turn like an Aircraft carrier but do so at 2900m/s) You also eat up a ton of capacitor so you also need to have enough fitting to supply it. Neuts will absolutely ruin your day because of this more so then webs will. You also sling shot easily. So you need to be very careful and keep an eye on what your opponent is doing. You'll also basically need to have nanofibers to help you out, and you can't field a buffer armor ship and be oversized AB so your limited to a local tank, or a buffer shield fit. I personally love oversized AB fits. They are a blast to fly. `#DeleteTheWeak`
Amnika MonSulu Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance 7	Posted - 2016.07.12 15:19:02 - [17] - Quote Speed tanks are a thing. What kills a speed tank? Slowing it down. Fit a MWD for your speed tank and a war scrambler will ruin your day. Fit an oversized AB and keep your speed tank. Even webbers will just drop you to near AB speeds in many cases. Punisher with OAB, MWD and AB: OAB: about 2727 m/s with oversized AB on and a stable cap. 2727 when hit with a warp scrambler. 1091 when hit with a webber and scrambler. MWD: 3545 m/s with MWD on and a stable cap. 593 when hit with a warp scrambler. 1418 when hit with a webber or 238 when hit with a webber and scrambler. AB: With a 1MN AB fitted, this build gets 1374 m/s or 550 m/s when hit with a webber. So, the oversized AB gives near MWD speeds without the risk of scramblers and to offset this advantage, it takes up a good chunk of PG that cannot be used for armor or shield tanking. It's also important to note that not every ship can pull off the OAB fit either and personally, I think it's more of a PVP fit as well.
Dirty Forum Alt Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 170	Posted - 2016.07.12 15:25:19 - [18] - Quote Amnika MonSulu wrote: I think it's more of a PVP fit as well. Definitely only a PvP thing. PvE is broken, the rats all cheat and have infinite range/etc but don't use prop mods in general - so if you speed tank at all there is no point cramming on more than a regular AB for PvE. Additionally you need more sustained tank (due to the unique mechanics of npc weaponry/ewar), so it would rarely fit onto the ship in any case.
Frostys Virpio Yet another corpdot. 2963	Posted - 2016.07.12 16:10:38 - [19] - Quote Dirty Forum Alt wrote: Amnika MonSulu wrote: I think it's more of a PVP fit as well. Definitely only a PvP thing. PvE is broken, the rats all cheat and have infinite range/etc but don't use prop mods in general - so if you speed tank at all there is no point cramming on more than a regular AB for PvE. Additionally you need more sustained tank (due to the unique mechanics of npc weaponry/ewar), so it would rarely fit onto the ship in any case. There is also the no scram rule in PvE making one of the liability of a MWD completely void.
Pandora Carrollon Kingsman Tailors 427	Posted - 2016.07.12 17:39:08 - [20] - Quote Well, I've tried it (Speed tanking) and I have to say I can't figure it out. I have an Atron that can hit over 3,000 m/s with a standard Frig Sig and the Serpentis Battlecruisers can still tag me even at 2500 meters. What's hilarious is my 75mm Gatling II rails can't hit him regularly at that speed and range... So, either these are super ships, I'm doing it wrong (likely the case), or Speed tanking is overrated. Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game -- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
Amnika MonSulu Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance 9	Posted - 2016.07.12 17:46:46 - [21] - Quote Pandora Carrollon wrote: Well, I've tried it (Speed tanking) and I have to say I can't figure it out. I have an Atron that can hit over 3,000 m/s with a standard Frig Sig and the Serpentis Battlecruisers can still tag me even at 2500 meters. What's hilarious is my 75mm Gatling II rails can't hit him regularly at that speed and range... So, either these are super ships, I'm doing it wrong (likely the case), or Speed tanking is overrated. You're doing something wrong. Note all the posts that say "Definitely only a PvP thing."
Dirty Forum Alt Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 173	Posted - 2016.07.12 17:47:22 - [22] - Quote Pandora Carrollon wrote: Well, I've tried it (Speed tanking) and I have to say I can't figure it out. I have an Atron that can hit over 3,000 m/s with a standard Frig Sig and the Serpentis Battlecruisers can still tag me even at 2500 meters. What's hilarious is my 75mm Gatling II rails can't hit him regularly at that speed and range... So, either these are super ships, I'm doing it wrong (likely the case), or Speed tanking is overrated. That is why you generally don't want to try to speed tank in PvE - npc mechanics are inconsistent at best. Also use blasters for short range, not rail guns.
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 16812	Posted - 2016.07.12 18:46:19 - [23] - Quote Yeah npc's cheat,you can get around it somewhat but lots of things that should work on them dont. Serpentis you need to outrange,then speed tanking works. Usually about 20k and be moving with as much transveral as possible. Your overview can be setup to show a transversal collum , should probably get that showing if your dicking around with turrets like this. Better the Devil you know. =]\|[=
Pandora Carrollon Kingsman Tailors 427	Posted - 2016.07.12 20:59:04 - [24] - Quote Dirty Forum Alt wrote: Pandora Carrollon wrote: Well, I've tried it (Speed tanking) and I have to say I can't figure it out. I have an Atron that can hit over 3,000 m/s with a standard Frig Sig and the Serpentis Battlecruisers can still tag me even at 2500 meters. What's hilarious is my 75mm Gatling II rails can't hit him regularly at that speed and range... So, either these are super ships, I'm doing it wrong (likely the case), or Speed tanking is overrated. That is why you generally don't want to try to speed tank in PvE - npc mechanics are inconsistent at best. Also use blasters for short range, not rail guns. Blasters at that range are really short... Rails let me engage at both medium and long. For a frigate running 75's, 5K is medium. But it looks like the problem is the NPC vs. PC thing. That explains a lot. I can't hit a Frigate at 2500 meters with anything but my systems set to engage them at that range and only with my dual 150 on my Cruiser and then it's rarely a solid hit. Ralph has it dead on for my experience. The NPC's can't hit at 20km and you have to kite them. This is what I ended up doing. I didn't know about the NPC cheating so much... explains tons. Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game -- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 16817	Posted - 2016.07.12 21:37:28 - [25] - Quote Oh yeah, rat ewar can bite you in the arse from anywhere on grid, so can guristas missiles, you cant cap them out, they dont obey normal tracking rules. This is all old rats though, i have no idea if the fance new rats are the same or not. Better the Devil you know. =]\|[=
Dirty Forum Alt Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 176	Posted - 2016.07.12 22:31:13 - [26] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Oh yeah, rat ewar can bite you in the arse from anywhere on grid, so can guristas missiles, you cant cap them out, they dont obey normal tracking rules. This is all old rats though, i have no idea if the fance new rats are the same or not. Last I checked the new AI spams the e-war a lot more consistently - so you will be 100% perma-jammed in any guristas mission if you aren't in a marauder. And they still have infinite-range missiles. Neuts have limited range though, so that is nice? I mean not like real neuts where they fall off....but like old neuts on super steroids where within 50km they full strength but outside 50km at least they don't neut you...
Pandora Carrollon Kingsman Tailors 431	Posted - 2016.07.12 22:47:00 - [27] - Quote Yeah, knew about the RATS ewar thing. Did some tests to see if I could counter it. Even in a ship that could counter player level EWAR the Rats burned through it, but on the plus side it did seem to affect whatever EWAR they were giving me.... For example, I run Gueriesta's Refuges regularly. Gueristas love their target jamming. If I don't have ECCM on I'm guaranteed to lose targeting. If I do have it on, I have good odds of keeping my targets and operations but I still get the successful 'jam' icon on my screen so it shows me that it's not a complete jam like a player would give me. Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game -- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
Galaxxis Unicorn Rampage 161	Posted - 2016.07.13 00:07:44 - [28] - Quote They will not let me realize my dream of putting a capital MWD on an interceptor. I'm unsubscribing.
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 16828	Posted - 2016.07.13 00:14:14 - [29] - Quote **** that, 1000mn machaial. Better the Devil you know. =]\|[=
Princess Adhara University of Caille Gallente Federation 18	Posted - 2016.07.13 02:00:26 - [30] - Quote Galaxxis wrote: They will not let me realize my dream of putting a capital MWD on an interceptor. I'm unsubscribing. That and bring back the cruise missile crow.
Coralas Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 22	Posted - 2016.07.13 05:38:26 - [31] - Quote Pandora Carrollon wrote: Well, I've tried it (Speed tanking) and I have to say I can't figure it out. I have an Atron that can hit over 3,000 m/s with a standard Frig Sig and the Serpentis Battlecruisers can still tag me even at 2500 meters. What's hilarious is my 75mm Gatling II rails can't hit him regularly at that speed and range... So, either these are super ships, I'm doing it wrong (likely the case), or Speed tanking is overrated. You'll get tagged if you are orbiting one of half a dozen bc's (or the research can as the case may be) and your orbit aligns on one of them as they fire - its very easy to see now that we have a nice blue orbit line, also I doubt that you are doing anything like 3000, in a 2500m orbit. Manual path or just a wider automatic orbit at full speed around the NPCs is safer than an automatic orbit around one NPC that is surrounded by other NPCs, simply because you'll always have significant transversal to all the ships and no periods of being aligned on one. That said, I don't understand why you'd be engaging serpentis battlecruisers in a tackle frigate instead of a dps cruiser, or at least a dps/tank frigate like a comet.
Demolishar United Aggression 1124	Posted - 2016.07.13 06:05:49 - [32] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: **** that, 1000mn machaial. It is interesting to note that all of the other new capital mods are not 'locked' to capital sized hulls. Capital prop mods were specifically and intentionally prohibited from being fitted to battleships. Yet another item in CCP's anti-bumping, anti-ganking agenda.
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 641	Posted - 2016.07.13 12:29:03 - [33] - Quote Demolishar wrote: It is interesting to note that all of the other new capital mods are not 'locked' to capital sized hulls. Capital prop mods were specifically and intentionally prohibited from being fitted to battleships. Yet another item in CCP's anti-bumping, anti-ganking agenda. Capital shield mods are. Don't know about others, but I saw someone make a fuss over CCP labeling the shield extenders and just confirmed when I logged into the game. Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 14297	Posted - 2016.07.13 15:37:46 - [34] - Quote Wait.... did I just read some comments about oversized AB fits are not good for PVE? If you just heard a thud, it's because the sound of someone falling on the ground laughing so hard his ribs breaks tends to travel ....
Kaldi Tsukaya Deveron Shipyards and Technology 260	Posted - 2016.07.14 21:09:06 - [35] - Quote Pandora Carrollon wrote: Blasters at that range are really short... Rails let me engage at both medium and long. For a frigate running 75's, 5K is medium. But it looks like the problem is the NPC vs. PC thing. That explains a lot. I can't hit a Frigate at 2500 meters with anything but my systems set to engage them at that range and only with my dual 150 on my Cruiser and then it's rarely a solid hit. Ralph has it dead on for my experience. The NPC's can't hit at 20km and you have to kite them. This is what I ended up doing. I didn't know about the NPC cheating so much... explains tons. T2 ranged ammo stinks for tracking, use faction. And webs vs those frigates, especially the elites.

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