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Kumi Katikama
Haasmi Hinmon Clusterwide
0
   |
Posted - 2016.07.16 08:13:45 -
[1] - Quote
HHC is proud to announce that we have had our first client and are open for operations. No matter what your needs are for PR, be it normal corporate communications or crisis management, Haasmi Hinmon Clusterwide is here to help get your message to the masses. If you don't tell your story, someone else will. Contact HHC today.
Tibus Heth is remembered by some as a hero, but those that served with him tell a different story. Members of the State military responded negatively to a poll conducted by HHC, with one saying that:
"Heth was the worst leader the State has ever had. The idea of an executor might be a good one, but Heth was not the right person for the job. I would not followed Heth to the dessert buffet."
Now that Heth is dead and time has elapsed, members of the State can take a more nuanced look at his disastrous rule. It is widely agreed that the best thing Heth did in his time as executor was die. |
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
1739
|
Posted - 2016.07.16 08:21:02 -
[2] - Quote
...
Yeah, this thread is definitely going to go places, and none of them good.
If I weren't going to sleep, I'd probably go make some popcorn.
Morwen Lagann
CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar
Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium
Owner, The Golden Masque
|
Karina Ivanovich
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
172
|
Posted - 2016.07.16 08:43:01 -
[3] - Quote
Heth was a criminal and a disgrace to the Caldari name. The only reason I stayed on under him and did not join up with Mordu's Legion at the time was my devotion to my fellow soldiers.
Some call me insane. If the universe is sane, then I embrace that label.
|
Korsavius
Revenent Defence Corperation
404 Alliance Not Found
293
|
Posted - 2016.07.16 14:01:03 -
[4] - Quote
Karina Ivanovich wrote:Heth was a criminal and a disgrace to the Caldari name. The only reason I stayed on under him and did not join up with Mordu's Legion at the time was my devotion to my fellow soldiers.
The better alternative, rather than leaving the State in need for the greener pastures of Mordu's Legion, would have been to rise with your brothers and sisters against him. Plenty of people all over the State were already doing so, myself included. My devotion is to all the people of the State, not only those who are soldiers. So maybe that's why I chose to stick it through rather than resist the urge to abandon them for soldiers of another faction. To each their own, I suppose. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
8483
|
Posted - 2016.07.16 14:18:13 -
[5] - Quote
You'll find a lengthy discussion here.
As I said before: Heth's early rise was heroic, laudable, and brought glory to the State. His fall was tragic, and wholly his own doing.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
Lord Kailethre
Oruze Cruise
White Stag Exit Bag
301
|
Posted - 2016.07.16 15:07:27 -
[6] - Quote
Do I have time to get snacks before our favourite IGS poster arrives to create a storm of poorly thought out claims and terrible accusations? |
Neph
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
Heiian Conglomerate
394
|
Posted - 2016.07.16 15:26:12 -
[7] - Quote
Must we speak ill of the dead?
Heth-haan did some amazing acts, and I believe he should be called a hero for them, even raised as an example for future generations.
Executor Heth also tore the state apart and did his all to embroiled us in a meaningless war against the Gallente when he could have been trying to rebuild the ties of centuries. He raised a culture of hate and mistrust and abused the Caldari spirit. For this, he was and is found condemned. There is no more to be said.
Is there any honor in throwing mud at graves?
~ Gariushi YC110 // Midular YC115 // Yanala YC115 ~
GÇ£Sitasutone nabeliwatsa-shogi; Otre Jaitovalte hessami-ettogi useuus sufat. Eika, hakkit garuketsi.GÇ¥
-Yakiya Tovil-Toba-taisoka
|
Evi Polevhia
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
Wrecking Machine.
1257
|
Posted - 2016.07.16 15:35:10 -
[8] - Quote
Neph wrote:Must we speak ill of the dead?
Implying he's dead. |
Korsavius
Revenent Defence Corperation
295
|
Posted - 2016.07.16 16:01:14 -
[9] - Quote
Neph wrote:Must we speak ill of the dead?
Heth-haan did some amazing acts, and I believe he should be called a hero for them, even raised as an example for future generations.
Executor Heth also tore the state apart and did his all to embroiled us in a meaningless war against the Gallente when he could have been trying to rebuild the ties of centuries. He raised a culture of hate and mistrust and abused the Caldari spirit. For this, he was and is found condemned. There is no more to be said.
Is there any honor in throwing mud at graves?
Trying to force change upon the State that went against the vision our ancestors had is something that may be forgivable. However, Heth forfeited all right to be labeled as a hero and a Caldari when soldiers acting under his command terrorized and killed countless State citizens who spoke out against him and his regime. He is no hero. He is no Caldari. Stop saying so. Let his memory rot with the rest of his putrid legacy. |
Alizabeth Vea
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
714
|
Posted - 2016.07.16 17:07:33 -
[10] - Quote
I would like to take this moment to note that Parious Mehoff is a known cheat and liar.
The over/under for this sort of thread is six hours--with myself taking the over--on the issue of the crazy Provist posting her vitriolic response.
Of course, I will retract my statement when and if I am paid.
Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.
Caldari by birth; Amarr by choice.
"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I
SFRIM Evocatus.
|
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
8486
|
Posted - 2016.07.16 17:40:21 -
[11] - Quote
Hey now, hey now. At least let him have six hours after the six hours. We're still early in his shift cycle for the day, and I have him reviewing a pile of documents.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
1743
|
Posted - 2016.07.16 17:42:32 -
[12] - Quote
Why do I get the feeling it isn't even a neat pile?
Morwen Lagann
CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar
Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium
Owner, The Golden Masque
|
Alizabeth Vea
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
715
|
Posted - 2016.07.16 18:06:47 -
[13] - Quote
You, madam ARC director, are a sadist.
I should have my report on the Heavy Weasels done by Monday.
Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.
Caldari by birth; Amarr by choice.
"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I
SFRIM Evocatus.
|
Parious MeHoff
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
7
|
Posted - 2016.07.16 18:42:21 -
[14] - Quote
The problem isn't that my employer gave me paperwork to file, it is that in this age of high tech holographic displays, Ms. Priano gave me paperwork on... well... paper.
Alizabeth, I have transferred 10 isk to your account as per our arrangement, but I do feel we need to talk about the specifics of future bets at some point. |
Alizabeth Vea
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
715
|
Posted - 2016.07.16 19:46:32 -
[15] - Quote
You're just jealous that I am getting so rich off this!
Also, Parious is not a cheat and a liar.
Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.
Caldari by birth; Amarr by choice.
"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I
SFRIM Evocatus.
|
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
Sani-Sabik
1486
|
Posted - 2016.07.16 20:35:37 -
[16] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:You'll find a lengthy discussion here.
I am greatly disappointed, that my brilliant treatise on whether Tibus Heth was a great Caldari hero, or the greatest Caldari hero, is described so prosaically as "lengthy".
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
|
Slayer Liberator
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
67
|
Posted - 2016.07.17 01:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
Parious MeHoff wrote:The problem isn't that my employer gave me paperwork to file, it is that in this age of high tech holographic displays, Ms. Priano gave me paperwork on... well... paper.
Alizabeth, I have transferred 10 isk to your account as per our arrangement, but I do feel we need to talk about the specifics of future bets at some point.
I know people who torture for a living who call that sadistic and evil |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
8487
|
Posted - 2016.07.17 06:54:37 -
[18] - Quote
On the merits of paper, which are manifold;
In the first case, there is nothing so chilling to someone seeking to engage in unwanted administerrata as "in triplicate." Arbitrary paperwork can test the dedication of those who are emotional but unmotivated.
In the second case, paper present on a desk is not so easily ignored as an evemail forgotten or a file in the wrong directory.
In the third case, it's not like I handed you a stack of paper. Actually, they're paper-like sheets of computing medium, which digitize and translate written or typed text into proper documents on the fly. This is why you sometimes look back at a sheet and find new notes you hadn't seen before. Apologies, I made them via my terminal.
That, and we can't have interns without filing, can we?
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
iyammarrok
Mining Company
The Suicidal Spaceship Squadron
435
|
Posted - 2016.07.17 08:44:16 -
[19] - Quote
The often lauded as heroic acts at the armour forge never cease to amaze me.
Not for the fact that they worked, but for how staged the whole affair appeared.
Had the home guard been competent on that day, given that there were snipers and heavy ordnance on site, they may have temporarily made a martyr out of him, though once his dragonaur allegiance became public knowledge, his support would likely have waned.
They would have saved the Caldari people a lot of grief in the process however.
I remain certain that without Heth's rise and aggression, Caldari Prime would still have, sooner or later, been transferred back to at least it's current partial Caldari control, without the need for a titan sized crater in the surface.
It is also worth noting, that Malkalen would likely not have happened without Heth's rise to power, as there would not have had to be such a hastily arranged and visible process had it not been in response to the public call to arms made by heth at the time.
-Tertianus Rethelior.
Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated.
|
Alizabeth Vea
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
721
|
Posted - 2016.07.17 10:05:33 -
[20] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:That, and we can't have interns without filing, can we? Interns! That's what I am missing in my life: Ni-Kunni interns.
I'll need several. Maybe even a couple of dozen. I'm Lady Newelle's Director of Security and Director of Propaganda. So, I'll need four each there. I'll need another four to assist with my ARC related duties. My reports won't proof read themselves. I'll need another four to assist me as the Evocatus of SFRIM. That's sixteen. I'll add another eight just to handle my ship related paperwork. Someone has to make sure they are properly cleaned. Every. Single. Day. (Unlike Minmatar ships, it's very easy to tell when Amarrian gold is dirty.) So, two dozen. I'll start putting help wanted ads up on Mishi.
Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.
Caldari by birth; Amarr by choice.
"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I
SFRIM Evocatus.
|
Slayer Liberator
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
68
|
Posted - 2016.07.17 13:58:34 -
[21] - Quote
iyammarrok wrote:The often lauded as heroic acts at the armour forge never cease to amaze me.
Not for the fact that they worked, but for how staged the whole affair appeared.
Had the home guard been competent on that day, given that there were snipers and heavy ordnance on site, they may have temporarily made a martyr out of him, though once his dragonaur allegiance became public knowledge, his support would likely have waned.
They would have saved the Caldari people a lot of grief in the process however.
I remain certain that without Heth's rise and aggression, Caldari Prime would still have, sooner or later, been transferred back to at least it's current partial Caldari control, without the need for a titan sized crater in the surface.
It is also worth noting, that Malkalen would likely not have happened without Heth's rise to power, as there would not have had to be such a hastily arranged and visible process had it not been in response to the public call to arms made by heth at the time.
-Tertianus Rethelior.
An interesting perspective that I never thought of but Kim will most certainly dismiss |
iyammarrok
Mining Company
The Suicidal Spaceship Squadron
435
|
Posted - 2016.07.17 19:53:00 -
[22] - Quote
Slayer Liberator wrote:
An interesting perspective that I never thought of but Kim will most certainly dismiss
She publicly supports the Dragonaur and has petitioned the CEP on more than one occasion to remove their terrorist status.
Her dismissal means little.
-Tertianus Rethelior
Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated.
|
Slayer Liberator
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
68
|
Posted - 2016.07.17 23:03:17 -
[23] - Quote
iyammarrok wrote:Slayer Liberator wrote:
An interesting perspective that I never thought of but Kim will most certainly dismiss
She publicly supports the Dragonaur and has petitioned the CEP on more than one occasion to remove their terrorist status. Her dismissal means little. -Tertianus Rethelior
You're right |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2701
|
Posted - 2016.07.18 03:21:02 -
[24] - Quote
Tibus Heth was the greatest hero of the State. He has returned our home, and that day became National holiday. He has commited heroic deeds, and her was praised by Caldari society for that.
Maybe he did also some questioning actions and some of his decisions were suboptimal, and I myself highly disagree with what he did in couple of situations...
But it doesn't give anyone to insult him. He died as a hero, fighting Sansha.
Those, who are insulting him and spreading lies about him, they are worst of the scum.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Lord Kailethre
Oruze Cruise
White Stag Exit Bag
305
|
Posted - 2016.07.19 12:29:51 -
[25] - Quote
Was I too late? I got back as fast I could. I've got uhhh... QuafeGäó of three different flavours, a case of StarsiGäó for those so inclined and a whole bunch of fingerfoo- Oh. I was late.
Well, at least I've got it all here for the next time. |
Natheniel
Mostly Sober
The Bastard Cartel
116
|
Posted - 2016.07.19 14:45:30 -
[26] - Quote
What the hell? How is this thread not filled with Diana Kim and it has Heth in the damn title!
"Life is as a storm, one must be prepared for the hardship and scorn. But with in this is a light, one for which we must fight. For hope is our weapon and our dreams are our shield. When fully armed we can not be felled from the field."
|
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
2007
|
Posted - 2016.07.19 15:06:14 -
[27] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Maybe he did also some questioning actions and some of his decisions were suboptimal, and I myself highly disagree with what he did in couple of situations...
Is this admission of Heth's imperfection?! Kimmy, I'm shocked! How dare you insinuate that the greatest Caldari Hero isn't flawless. This propaganda should not be allowed to stand, you Gallente lapdog! If you wish to restore your honor as Caldari you will need to duel Heth's champion, Diana Ki-....... well, ****. I guess you'll just have to drink the tea.
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
|
Slayer Liberator
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
68
|
Posted - 2016.07.19 15:52:44 -
[28] - Quote
Natheniel wrote:What the hell? How is this thread not filled with Diana Kim and it has Heth in the damn title!
Must have been clonejacked |
Slayer Liberator
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
68
|
Posted - 2016.07.19 15:54:56 -
[29] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Maybe he did also some questioning actions and some of his decisions were suboptimal, and I myself highly disagree with what he did in couple of situations... Is this admission of Heth's imperfection?! Kimmy, I'm shocked! How dare you insinuate that the greatest Caldari Hero isn't flawless. This propaganda should not be allowed to stand, you Gallente lapdog! If you wish to restore your honor as Caldari you will need to duel Heth's champion, Diana Ki-....... well, ****. I guess you'll just have to drink the tea.
This confirms it 100% |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
Wrecking Machine.
6067
|
Posted - 2016.07.19 16:58:52 -
[30] - Quote
Mathias Sobaseki
Yakiya Tovil-Toba
Otro Gariushi
Visera Yanala
The four greatest heroes of The State.
(Note that three of them were killed by the Federation - and people ask why we hold a grudge!)
"Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
|
iyammarrok
Mining Company
The Suicidal Spaceship Squadron
435
|
Posted - 2016.07.19 18:27:28 -
[31] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:
But it doesn't give anyone to insult him. He died as a Terrorist, On the run, as a passenger, in a stolen Caldari Navy ship that appears to have been attacked by the Sansha's Nation, Unable to help in the conflict due to not being the Capsuleer in command of the vessel he was hiding on.
Fixed that for you.
You're welcome.
-Tertianus Rethelior
Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated.
|
iyammarrok
Mining Company
The Suicidal Spaceship Squadron
435
|
Posted - 2016.07.19 18:30:09 -
[32] - Quote
To be fair Pieter, Tovil-Toba killed himself, and while Gariushi was killed by a federation vessel, there is some question as to who was truly in command there.
That the Federation was a player in both events is not in question however.
-Tertianus Rethelior.
Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated.
|
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
2007
|
Posted - 2016.07.19 18:40:03 -
[33] - Quote
Blerp
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
|
Yarosara Ruil
447
|
Posted - 2016.07.19 18:51:19 -
[34] - Quote
iyammarrok wrote:To be fair Pieter, Tovil-Toba killed himself, and while Gariushi was killed by a federation vessel, there is some question as to who was truly in command there.
That the Federation was a player in both events is not in question however.
-Tertianus Rethelior.
Grr Federation! Hat Federation!
It's not like I like working for the Federation or anything! B-baka! |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2702
|
Posted - 2016.07.19 22:35:56 -
[35] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Mathias Sobaseki
Yakiya Tovil-Toba
Otro Gariushi
Visera Yanala
The four greatest heroes of The State.
(Note that three of them were killed by the Federation - and people ask why we hold a grudge!)
Wait wait wait a moment?...
What exact heroic act did Otro Gariushi actually commit?
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Neph
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
Heiian Conglomerate
399
|
Posted - 2016.07.19 22:50:30 -
[36] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Mathias Sobaseki
Yakiya Tovil-Toba
Otro Gariushi
Visera Yanala
The four greatest heroes of The State.
(Note that three of them were killed by the Federation - and people ask why we hold a grudge!) Wait wait wait a moment?... What exact heroic act did Otro Gariushi actually commit?
CEO Gariushi's leadership saw an ailing and corrupt Megacorporation remade into a healthy and vibrant one. He was a man of peace and honesty his whole life and truly strove against individualist corruption for the sake of the whole. He was the model CEO, one who exemplified saakanuaku yet who knew when to stand firm against the torrent of others on moral principle. He is and will ever be one of the greatest heros of Ishukone.
Still, I do not know if he is one of the greatest heroes of the State.
~ Gariushi YC110 // Midular YC115 // Yanala YC115 ~
GÇ£Sitasutone nabeliwatsa-shogi; Otre Jaitovalte hessami-ettogi useuus sufat. Eika, hakkit garuketsi.GÇ¥
-Yakiya Tovil-Toba-taisoka
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2702
|
Posted - 2016.07.19 23:00:27 -
[37] - Quote
Neph wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Mathias Sobaseki
Yakiya Tovil-Toba
Otro Gariushi
Visera Yanala
The four greatest heroes of The State.
(Note that three of them were killed by the Federation - and people ask why we hold a grudge!) Wait wait wait a moment?... What exact heroic act did Otro Gariushi actually commit? CEO Gariushi's leadership saw an ailing and corrupt Megacorporation remade into a healthy and vibrant one. He was a man of peace and honesty his whole life and truly strove against individualist corruption for the sake of the whole. He was the model CEO, one who exemplified saakanuaku yet who knew when to stand firm against the torrent of others on moral principle. He is and will ever be one of the greatest heros of Ishukone. Still, I do not know if he is one of the greatest heroes of the State.
Ms. Neph, I didn't ask about his personal qualities, if he was good or bad, about his principles and policies, business successes and how he acted as a leader.
I have asked if he has committed an actual heroic action, and if he did - which one.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
2008
|
Posted - 2016.07.19 23:19:24 -
[38] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Neph wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Mathias Sobaseki
Yakiya Tovil-Toba
Otro Gariushi
Visera Yanala
The four greatest heroes of The State.
(Note that three of them were killed by the Federation - and people ask why we hold a grudge!) Wait wait wait a moment?... What exact heroic act did Otro Gariushi actually commit? CEO Gariushi's leadership saw an ailing and corrupt Megacorporation remade into a healthy and vibrant one. He was a man of peace and honesty his whole life and truly strove against individualist corruption for the sake of the whole. He was the model CEO, one who exemplified saakanuaku yet who knew when to stand firm against the torrent of others on moral principle. He is and will ever be one of the greatest heros of Ishukone. Still, I do not know if he is one of the greatest heroes of the State. Ms. Neph, I didn't ask about his personal qualities, if he was good or bad, about his principles and policies, business successes and how he acted as a leader. I have asked if he has committed an actual heroic action, and if he did - which one.
He was an all around good guy, from making Ishukone what it is today to his martyrdom at the hands of the Wandering Saint, his life's work towards peace is enough to make him a hero. And not just for the Caldari. Many in the Federation, myself included, have a deep respect for the man. You would also be hard pressed to find a soul in the Republic with ill words on their lips about him. You don't need military merits to be a hero. If that's not good enough, he beat my father in a bout of Mind Clash once....
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
|
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
Wrecking Machine.
6068
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 00:45:04 -
[39] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:
Ms. Neph, I didn't ask about his personal qualities, if he was good or bad, about his principles and policies, business successes and how he acted as a leader.
I have asked if he has committed an actual heroic action, and if he did - which one.
He almost brought a negotiated peace between the State and the Federation, being slain with his kirjuun at their HQ in Malkalen at the hands of Admiral Noir and the so-called "Wandering Saint".
He literally gave his life in an attempt to bring peace to The State. That's heroic enough, isn't it?
"Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
|
Korsavius
Revenent Defence Corperation
297
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 06:31:19 -
[40] - Quote
Unfortunately, Pieter, as you probably well know by now, any actions that don't involve the complete and utter genocide and destruction of the Gallente people and their culture will never seem to fit in with Kim's views of heroism. Her worship of a false hero who sought to uproot the State's culture and society in favor of his own, and who also oversaw the murder and terrorizing of countless State citizens speaks volumes.
Gariushi's legacy will live on, however. Reppola does a fine job of carrying the torch of the honorable Gariushi. And RDC alongside I-RED continue to promote Gariushi's life work of building a lasting relationship of peace and prosperity between the Gallente and Caldari. |
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
1246
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 06:54:17 -
[41] - Quote
Korsavius wrote:Unfortunately, Pieter, as you probably well know by now, any actions that don't involve the complete and utter genocide and destruction of the Gallente people and their culture will never seem to fit in with Kim's views of heroism. Her worship of a false hero who sought to uproot the State's culture and society in favor of his own, and who also oversaw the murder and terrorizing of countless State citizens speaks volumes.
Gariushi's legacy will live on, however. Reppola does a fine job of carrying the torch of the honorable Gariushi. And RDC alongside I-RED continue to promote Gariushi's life work of building a lasting relationship of peace and prosperity between the Gallente and Caldari.
Speaking of which I haven't heard of Gariushi ever since the Feds handed over chunks of Caldari Prime into Ishukone hands. What's happening over there?
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
Kumi Katikama
Haasmi Hinmon Clusterwide
0
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 07:43:16 -
[42] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Maybe he did also some questioning actions and some of his decisions were suboptimal, and I myself highly disagree with what he did in couple of situations...
Fellow citizens, I think that this statement here is the best advertisement of HHC that I could ever make. On our first thread, we have convinced Kim-haani that Heth-guri was not a perfect man!
Might I suggest a new hero for Kim-Haani: Admiral Yanala.
|
Korsavius
Revenent Defence Corperation
297
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 08:15:56 -
[43] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:Speaking of which I haven't heard of Gariushi ever since the Feds handed over chunks of Caldari Prime into Ishukone hands. What's happening over there?
Sometimes actions speak louder than words.
I personally see no need to mention his name with every action that promotes the ideals he believed in. He was never a man to constantly point the limelight onto himself. Needless to say, however, Gariushi would be most proud of Ishukone for being the first megacorporation to take the necessary steps to ease the situation over Caldari Prime.
In terms of developments related to I-RED, you may wish to peruse the topics on the IGS to find out how we've been continuing to carry on Gariushi's legacy. |
Loki Vaako
Viziam
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 11:18:07 -
[44] - Quote
I think it's easy to condemn people when they die. Rightly or Wrongly Tibus Heth unified the entire Caldari State to a single purpose - War against the Gallente.
If he had plans to deal with the situation afterward is a moot point since it didn't happen.
What he should be remembered for is that one man unified all of the Caldari People for that purpose.
He didn't fight for personal glory or honor but for the people, from the most powerful CEO to the waiters in the cafe's. He should be remembered for that. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2705
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 11:36:37 -
[45] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Diana Kim wrote:
Ms. Neph, I didn't ask about his personal qualities, if he was good or bad, about his principles and policies, business successes and how he acted as a leader.
I have asked if he has committed an actual heroic action, and if he did - which one.
He almost brought a negotiated peace between the State and the Federation, being slain with his kirjuun at their HQ in Malkalen at the hands of Admiral Noir and the so-called "Wandering Saint". He literally gave his life in an attempt to bring peace to The State. That's heroic enough, isn't it?
Negative. That was his professional duty, and there was no visible risk to him or his corporation when he was doing it. He and everyone else on the station were just victims of Federation Admiral's terror attack. There is nothing heroic in such a death... he died as a victim of a murderer.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2705
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 11:46:58 -
[46] - Quote
Loki Vaako wrote:I think it's easy to condemn people when they die. Rightly or Wrongly Tibus Heth unified the entire Caldari State to a single purpose - War against the Gallente.
If he had plans to deal with the situation afterward is a moot point since it didn't happen.
What he should be remembered for is that one man unified all of the Caldari People for that purpose.
He didn't fight for personal glory or honor but for the people, from the most powerful CEO to the waiters in the cafe's. He should be remembered for that.
Thank you, Sir.
However, I would like to add a small correction. Tibus Heth has unified the entire Caldari State not just for War against Gallente, but to liberate our Home planet - Caldari Prime. After the planet was liberated, he has actually contacted Federals and signed the treaty with Gallente President, it was Souro Foiritan back then.
The war what we are fighting today is a gallente initiative, that revolves around Black Rise - a region we have colonized in secrecy, and gallenteans wanted to lay their claims on it... with their weapons.
As for the treaty that Foiritan has signed with Heth, it was violated of course... by gallenteans, of course. In YC115 with their 'Operation Highlander', when they smuggled clone soldiers to Caldari Prime and attempted to occupy our home world once again. Thanks to our own valiant ground troops the invasion was halted, but for now about half of our planet is still in enemy's hands.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Korsavius
Revenent Defence Corperation
298
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 12:39:03 -
[47] - Quote
Loki Vaako wrote:He didn't fight for personal glory or honor but for the people, from the most powerful CEO to the waiters in the cafe's. He should be remembered for that.
I hope this statement is a joke.
It seems it is also easy to speak nonsense when you fail to engage a willingness to properly review historical sources. Allow me to enlighten you.
You say he didn't fight for personal glory or honor yet he usurped the traditional values of Caldari society and culture to position himself as the "executor" of the State - a position which has never before in the history of the State existed. To add on to this, he also attempted to dispose of the CEOs of the megacorporations in favor of coercing every megacorporation under his direct control. Potential access to billions of ISK and assets and people, all at his greedy fingertips.
You say he sought to fight for CEOs? That is funny because his actions directly encouraged the removal of the CEO of the largest megacorporation in the State. He casually took the helm instead. What happened under his rule of KK was that he almost single-handedly bankrupted the megacorporation.
You say he sought to fight for the people? Again, this is just a purely ignorant statement. Under his command, millions of Caldari were directly in the crosshairs of warships under orders of a corrupt regime. Any and all opposition to Heth or the CPD was silenced. Thousands of Caldari died because of Heth's lust for power and obedience. The latter part of his rule were some of the darkest times in Caldari history - and yet you mock the lives of those lost under his regime by spouting such ill-informed jibberish? This is shameful.
Please educate yourself before making such posts on the IGS in the future. |
Slayer Liberator
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
68
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 12:44:46 -
[48] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Loki Vaako wrote:I think it's easy to condemn people when they die. Rightly or Wrongly Tibus Heth unified the entire Caldari State to a single purpose - War against the Gallente.
If he had plans to deal with the situation afterward is a moot point since it didn't happen.
What he should be remembered for is that one man unified all of the Caldari People for that purpose.
He didn't fight for personal glory or honor but for the people, from the most powerful CEO to the waiters in the cafe's. He should be remembered for that. Thank you, Sir. However, I would like to add a small correction. Tibus Heth has unified the entire Caldari State not just for War against Gallente, but to liberate our Home planet - Caldari Prime. After the planet was liberated, he has actually contacted Federals and signed the treaty with Gallente President, it was Souro Foiritan back then. The war what we are fighting today is a gallente initiative, that revolves around Black Rise - a region we have colonized in secrecy, and gallenteans wanted to lay their claims on it... with their weapons. As for the treaty that Foiritan has signed with Heth, it was violated of course... by gallenteans, of course. In YC115 with their 'Operation Highlander', when they smuggled clone soldiers to Caldari Prime and attempted to occupy our home world once again. Thanks to our own valiant ground troops the invasion was halted, but for now about half of our planet is still in enemy's hands.
I am sure that while Heth unified the Caldari it should not have been for an eternal pendulum war but for peace and it was a rouge admiral who killed Gariushi not the Gallente |
Sanguina Dieudonne
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
89
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 13:11:12 -
[49] - Quote
Heth was total loser and hopefully he's some mindless True Slave in Stain. I should see if I can go visit to spit in his face. As for Operation Highlander the Federation's mistake was trying to take Caldari Prime. A couple of doomsdays from orbit would have fixed it right up. |
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
2013
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 13:47:55 -
[50] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Loki Vaako wrote:I think it's easy to condemn people when they die. Rightly or Wrongly Tibus Heth unified the entire Caldari State to a single purpose - War against the Gallente.
If he had plans to deal with the situation afterward is a moot point since it didn't happen.
What he should be remembered for is that one man unified all of the Caldari People for that purpose.
He didn't fight for personal glory or honor but for the people, from the most powerful CEO to the waiters in the cafe's. He should be remembered for that. Thank you, Sir. However, I would like to add a small correction. Tibus Heth has unified the entire Caldari State not just for War against Gallente, but to liberate our Home planet - Caldari Prime. After the planet was liberated, he has actually contacted Federals and signed the treaty with Gallente President, it was Souro Foiritan back then. The war what we are fighting today is a gallente initiative, that revolves around Black Rise - a region we have colonized in secrecy, and gallenteans wanted to lay their claims on it... with their weapons. As for the treaty that Foiritan has signed with Heth, it was violated of course... by gallenteans, of course. In YC115 with their 'Operation Highlander', when they smuggled clone soldiers to Caldari Prime and attempted to occupy our home world once again. Thanks to our own valiant ground troops the invasion was halted, but for now about half of our planet is still in enemy's hands.
I would like to point out that Caldari Prime was never liberated. Only occupied. As the fact that the Federation is now handing it over to Ishukone. As for the Gallente breaking a treaty, let's not get into how many treatys the state broke sending a fleet into Gallente space to begin with... Quid pro quo.
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
|
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
Wrecking Machine.
6072
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 16:28:54 -
[51] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote:
I would like to point out that Caldari Prime was never liberated. Only occupied. As the fact that the Federation is now handing it over to Ishukone. As for the Gallente breaking a treaty, let's not get into how many treatys the state broke sending a fleet into Gallente space to begin with... Quid pro quo.
No. Caldari Prime was originally invaded by the Federation. The means that The State's occupation of the world could accurately be called a Liberation, since it returned the world to the control of its original owners. Whilst I'm not clamouring for a return to force as the deciding mechanism, I also think we shouldn't lose sight of who the original invaders were, Ms Osyn.
"Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
|
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
2013
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 18:59:37 -
[52] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Claudia Osyn wrote:
I would like to point out that Caldari Prime was never liberated. Only occupied. As the fact that the Federation is now handing it over to Ishukone. As for the Gallente breaking a treaty, let's not get into how many treatys the state broke sending a fleet into Gallente space to begin with... Quid pro quo.
No. Caldari Prime was originally invaded by the Federation. The means that The State's occupation of the world could accurately be called a Liberation, since it returned the world to the control of its original owners. Whilst I'm not clamouring for a return to force as the deciding mechanism, I also think we shouldn't lose sight of who the original invaders were, Ms Osyn.
An invasion of the invaders then? Not that that matters to the point I was making. When Heth sent that fleet across our borders he violated treatys made between the four empires and CONCORD. The point I was trying to get across to Kimmy is: If your not going to honor your agreements, don't expect us to honor ours.
And I don't know if you can actually claim to have liberated the planet when control of it ultimately fell back to the Gallente. It's kinda like taking a prisoner away from a law enforcement officer, getting tazed by said law enforcement officer and then he takes the prisoner back. At no point was said prisoner freed in any way.
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
|
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
Wrecking Machine.
6079
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 20:04:53 -
[53] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote:
An invasion of the invaders then? Not that that matters to the point I was making. When Heth sent that fleet across our borders he violated treatys made between the four empires and CONCORD. The point I was trying to get across to Kimmy is: If your not going to honor your agreements, don't expect us to honor ours.
And I don't know if you can actually claim to have liberated the planet when control of it ultimately fell back to the Gallente. It's kinda like taking a prisoner away from a law enforcement officer, getting tazed by said law enforcement officer and then he takes the prisoner back. At no point was said prisoner freed in any way.
I will grant that the fleet invaded Gallente Space on it's way to the Homeworld. A neccessary evil, given that our Homeworld remains surrounded by Federal territory and that there is no agreed corridor of access from State space to the Homeworld.
If we're going to talk about broken promises, we really do need to focus on the fact that the Federation has broken one treaty (Foiritan's when it launched Highlander) and physically attacked a peace conference (Malkalen) in addition to the original embargo, bombing of civilian targets from space and planetary invasion.
As for not having liberated the planet, after five years of Caldari control the Federation seized control of the space around the planet, Ms Osyn. The planet itself remains under majority control of the Caldari State.
"Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
|
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
1773
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 21:05:02 -
[54] - Quote
I think that we can probably agree, Pieter, that given the increasingly erratic and unstable behavior and posturing from Heth leading up to that point, as much as it was a terrible diplomatic decision on the Federation's part, Operation Highlander was arguably the best tactical decision available to the Federation at the time.
Morwen Lagann
CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar
Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium
Owner, The Golden Masque
|
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
Wrecking Machine.
6080
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 21:20:28 -
[55] - Quote
Morwen Lagann wrote:I think that we can probably agree, Pieter, that given the increasingly erratic and unstable behavior and posturing from Heth leading up to that point, as much as it was a terrible diplomatic decision on the Federation's part, Operation Highlander was arguably the best tactical decision available to the Federation at the time.
Nothing about Highlander struck me as being successful without qualification. I will gladly cede Heth's erratic and unstable behaviour, given what we know about his orders to Shiigeru and the cost paid by the Caldari Navy in ensuring those orders would never be carried out.
To be frank, the question was never whether the Federation would be able to remove Shiigeru from Caldari Prime orbit, it was always what cost that removal would involve. If Admiral Yanala had not been willing to sacrifice her record, her command and the lives of her sailors and officers to prevent an atrocity I would say that an already extremely high price would have become perhaps the greatest single loss of life in New Eden history and that the Federal Navy, at no time, had any control over what that price would be, nor did they have a plan to mitigate any actions that Admiral Yanala [i]could/i] have taken.
I'll leave you to imagine my opinion of the skills of the Federal Navy planners involved in Operation Highlander. Simply put, I'm a Civire and that's not a gamble that I would have taken.
"Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
|
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
1773
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 21:36:52 -
[56] - Quote
It's not a gamble I would have taken either. But given Heth's behavior at the time I don't think anyone responsible for the decision-making felt they could trust him not to try ordering an attack on either planet - which, as it happens, he did attempt to order... and most egregiously, not against the planet they were most concerned about.
Note that I didn't say it was a great tactical decision either. Just the best one available at the time, compared to... what, sitting and letting things continue to spiral out of control in the State, and risk him doing something even more stupid than what he'd already gone and shown he was capable of?
It was hardly the ideal solution to the problem for either side, but aside from the lives lost on both sides, it has, thankfully, largely been for the best.
Morwen Lagann
CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar
Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium
Owner, The Golden Masque
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2707
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 23:48:03 -
[57] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote:
I would like to point out that Caldari Prime was never liberated. Only occupied. As the fact that the Federation is now handing it over to Ishukone. As for the Gallente breaking a treaty, let's not get into how many treatys the state broke sending a fleet into Gallente space to begin with... Quid pro quo.
Caldari Prime was liberated 10 June YC110, this date became a national holiday, and I still wonder how ignorant someone might not be aware of it, considering it happened just eight years ago.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Nitshe Razvedka
987
|
Posted - 2016.07.21 06:57:59 -
[58] - Quote
That's right Diana, the ignorant people don't remember their LORE. But we're here to remind them.
*nodding*
Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS.
Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.
|
Mika Firestorm
Your Friendly Neighborhood Logistics
24
|
Posted - 2016.07.21 13:37:39 -
[59] - Quote
Korsavius wrote:Loki Vaako wrote:He didn't fight for personal glory or honor but for the people, from the most powerful CEO to the waiters in the cafe's. He should be remembered for that. I hope this statement is a joke. It seems it is also easy to speak nonsense when you fail to engage a willingness to properly review historical sources. Allow me to enlighten you. You say he didn't fight for personal glory or honor yet he usurped the traditional values of Caldari society and culture to position himself as the "executor" of the State - a position which has never before in the history of the State existed. To add on to this, he also attempted to dispose of the CEOs of the megacorporations in favor of coercing every megacorporation under his direct control. Potential access to billions of ISK and assets and people, all at his greedy fingertips. You say he sought to fight for CEOs? That is funny because his actions directly encouraged the removal of the CEO of the largest megacorporation in the State. He casually took the helm instead. What happened under his rule of KK was that he almost single-handedly bankrupted the megacorporation. You say he sought to fight for the people? Again, this is just a purely ignorant statement. Under his command, millions of Caldari were directly in the crosshairs of warships under orders from a corrupt regime. Any and all opposition to Heth or the CPD was silenced. Thousands of Caldari died because of Heth's lust for power and obedience. The latter part of his rule were some of the darkest times in Caldari history - and yet you mock the lives of those lost under his regime by spouting such ill-informed jibberish? This is shameful. Please educate yourself before making such posts on the IGS in the future.
Mister, don't blame others in ignorance and lack of historical knowledge when you claim things like these.
Please review historical documents. Heth didn't usurp anything. He was appointed to position of Executor by CEP. If you don't like CEP or Heth, it's your right. But please don't twist facts, you just make yourself looking at least stupid.
His initial rise to power wasn't his own deed. Someone named Xavier Black bought CC for him. That's too obvious that a rioter like him couldn't get that high without someone standing behind his back. He was sort of "Notice me, senpai" person, not "Give me power". Hell, he wasn't even fighting for power when KK ousted him, he just wanted to "Take Caldari Prime back"... well, according to workers who escaped Haatomo station.
For the sake of historical correctness, these things just lay on surface. Don't be a blind hatemonger to ignore that.
State the nature of your medical emergency
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2709
|
Posted - 2016.07.22 06:17:28 -
[60] - Quote
Mika Firestorm wrote:
Mister, don't blame others in ignorance and lack of historical knowledge when you claim things like these.
Please review historical documents. Heth didn't usurp anything. He was appointed to position of Executor by CEP. If you don't like CEP or Heth, it's your right. But please don't twist facts, you just make yourself looking at least stupid.
His initial rise to power wasn't his own deed. Someone named Xavier Black bought CC for him. That's too obvious that a rioter like him couldn't get that high without someone standing behind his back. He was sort of "Notice me, senpai" person, not "Give me power". Hell, he wasn't even fighting for power when KK ousted him, he just wanted to "Take Caldari Prime back"... well, according to workers who escaped Haatomo station.
For the sake of historical correctness, these things just lay on surface. Don't be a blind hatemonger to ignore that.
I would like to remind you, that Korsavius aren't really Caldari and was dissenting against us even while Tibus Heth was lawful Executor of the State. Though maybe word dissenting isn't correct one, since I don't think his loyalties ever stayed with us. Even now he spews his bile about the person who made the State strong again and returned us Homeworld.
I am also pleasantly surprised you have defended Tibus Heth.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Mika Firestorm
Your Friendly Neighborhood Logistics
27
|
Posted - 2016.07.22 12:13:47 -
[61] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:
I am also pleasantly surprised you have defended Tibus Heth.
I didn't defend Heth. And I dislike the guy. Also I dislike the guy who twisted historical facts because of guy he disliked. And I disliked him for this.
I have defended the history.
As for Heth himself... I believe he was not suitable for management. Oh, and please, just don't start that I insult him or something like that. I am not going to question his "heroic" deeds, that you so love to cite, nor going to call him names or make up stuff about him. This is just my opinion, that he, while was defending and establishing meritocracy in the State was lacking merit to rule himself. His rhetoric was that "only merited shall rule". But he got his position not himself, not by his merits. He was appointed and pushed by others.
Who would they be, I don't know. Maybe, someone from CEP. But maybe someone even from the other side of the trenches. Have you ever thought, that name Xavier Black sounds suspiciously gallentean? While Tibus Heth was raising the State to war against Federation, was capturing (Im sorry, liberating...) planets, someone on the other side was raising in power and getting authorities they would never be able to achieve without Heth.
Have you thought, that without Heth people like Mentas Blaque wouldn't get his Black Eagles going? He almost turned now the Federation into police state, where his peoples can drag peoples away and even kill them without trial. You don't even have to fight against the Federation open to be dragged by them, you just need to say something good about Caldari, and you will be marked only for that. They even have power to read and listen your private communication going through Federal networks they have access to. And while officially Federation claims to be all about freedom, I don't think I can name where your thoughts will be controlled harder than there.
This all became possible only because someone pushed Heth to a position of authority in the State. Now, what would you think, who could it be?
State the nature of your medical emergency
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2724
|
Posted - 2016.07.22 15:38:23 -
[62] - Quote
Mika Firestorm wrote:Diana Kim wrote:
I am also pleasantly surprised you have defended Tibus Heth.
I didn't defend Heth. And I dislike the guy. Also I dislike the guy who twisted historical facts because of guy he disliked. And I disliked him for this. I have defended the history. As for Heth himself... I believe he was not suitable for management. Oh, and please, just don't start that I insult him or something like that. I am not going to question his "heroic" deeds, that you so love to cite, nor going to call him names or make up stuff about him. This is just my opinion, that he, while was defending and establishing meritocracy in the State was lacking merit to rule himself. His rhetoric was that "only merited shall rule". But he got his position not himself, not by his merits. He was appointed and pushed by others.
How dare you tell it wasn't meritocratic!!
Maybe he didn't get the position himself, but he was raised by others because of his merits. Whole Chief Executive Panel, consisting of all the CEO of Caldari State megacorporations has named him the Executor. He was Sobaseki of our era.
Mika Firestorm wrote:
Who would they be, I don't know. Maybe, someone from CEP. But maybe someone even from the other side of the trenches. Have you ever thought, that name Xavier Black sounds suspiciously gallentean? While Tibus Heth was raising the State to war against Federation, was capturing (Im sorry, liberating...) planets, someone on the other side was raising in power and getting authorities they would never be able to achieve without Heth.
Have you thought, that without Heth people like Mentas Blaque wouldn't get his Black Eagles going? He almost turned now the Federation into police state, where his peoples can drag peoples away and even kill them without trial. You don't even have to fight against the Federation open to be dragged by them, you just need to say something good about Caldari, and you will be marked only for that. They even have power to read and listen your private communication going through Federal networks they have access to. And while officially Federation claims to be all about freedom, I don't think I can name where your thoughts will be controlled harder than there.
This all became possible only because someone pushed Heth to a position of authority in the State. Now, what would you think, who could it be?
Your idea is revolting! I believe though someone from the CEP could have helped him.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Slayer Liberator
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
68
|
Posted - 2016.07.22 19:34:08 -
[63] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Mika Firestorm wrote:Diana Kim wrote:
I am also pleasantly surprised you have defended Tibus Heth.
I didn't defend Heth. And I dislike the guy. Also I dislike the guy who twisted historical facts because of guy he disliked. And I disliked him for this. I have defended the history. As for Heth himself... I believe he was not suitable for management. Oh, and please, just don't start that I insult him or something like that. I am not going to question his "heroic" deeds, that you so love to cite, nor going to call him names or make up stuff about him. This is just my opinion, that he, while was defending and establishing meritocracy in the State was lacking merit to rule himself. His rhetoric was that "only merited shall rule". But he got his position not himself, not by his merits. He was appointed and pushed by others. How dare you tell it wasn't meritocratic!! Maybe he didn't get the position himself, but he was raised by others because of his merits. Whole Chief Executive Panel, consisting of all the CEO of Caldari State megacorporations has named him the Executor. He was Sobaseki of our era. Mika Firestorm wrote:
Who would they be, I don't know. Maybe, someone from CEP. But maybe someone even from the other side of the trenches. Have you ever thought, that name Xavier Black sounds suspiciously gallentean? While Tibus Heth was raising the State to war against Federation, was capturing (Im sorry, liberating...) planets, someone on the other side was raising in power and getting authorities they would never be able to achieve without Heth.
Have you thought, that without Heth people like Mentas Blaque wouldn't get his Black Eagles going? He almost turned now the Federation into police state, where his peoples can drag peoples away and even kill them without trial. You don't even have to fight against the Federation open to be dragged by them, you just need to say something good about Caldari, and you will be marked only for that. They even have power to read and listen your private communication going through Federal networks they have access to. And while officially Federation claims to be all about freedom, I don't think I can name where your thoughts will be controlled harder than there.
This all became possible only because someone pushed Heth to a position of authority in the State. Now, what would you think, who could it be?
Your idea is revolting! I believe though someone from the CEP could have helped him.
Revolting to you maybe but that doesn't rule it out completely |
Mika Firestorm
Your Friendly Neighborhood Logistics
32
|
Posted - 2016.07.23 11:24:50 -
[64] - Quote
Oh, dear...
But okay, since we are talking about gallente conspiracies, how about another one. A hypothesis, of course. Think about it, who would be this mysterious Xavier Black? Xavier is obvious gallente name, but Black? Do you know, how the word 'black' sound on gallentean? It is 'noir'. Do you think it is a coincidence that Federal Admiral had the same surname?
What if it was our old man Alexander all the time?
State the nature of your medical emergency
|
Slayer Liberator
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
68
|
Posted - 2016.07.23 14:59:04 -
[65] - Quote
Mika Firestorm wrote:Oh, dear...
But okay, since we are talking about gallente conspiracies, how about another one. A hypothesis, of course. Think about it, who would be this mysterious Xavier Black? Xavier is obvious gallente name, but Black? Do you know, how the word 'black' sound on gallentean? It is 'noir'. Do you think it is a coincidence that Federal Admiral had the same surname?
What if it was our old man Alexander all the time?
Could be |
Nitshe Razvedka
1036
|
Posted - 2016.07.23 19:01:12 -
[66] - Quote
This is just the time to announce the planning phase of the TIBUS HETH official Empire Monument. The planning committee is at odds as to where to site the structure. We throw it open to the public for suggestions.
Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS.
Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.
|
Slayer Liberator
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
68
|
Posted - 2016.07.23 20:24:33 -
[67] - Quote
Nitshe Razvedka wrote:This is just the time to announce the planning phase of the TIBUS HETH official Empire Monument. The planning committee is at odds as to where to site the structure. We throw it open to the public for suggestions.
How about the core |
Tarek Raimo
Eleutherian Guard
Villore Accords
48
|
Posted - 2016.07.24 00:36:21 -
[68] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
(Note that three of them were killed by the Federation - and people ask why we hold a grudge!)
... and Visera Yanala was killed by Tibus Heth. |
Nitshe Razvedka
1040
|
Posted - 2016.07.24 07:10:58 -
[69] - Quote
Slayer Liberator wrote:Nitshe Razvedka wrote:This is just the time to announce the planning phase of the TIBUS HETH official Empire Monument. The planning committee is at odds as to where to site the structure. We throw it open to the public for suggestions. How about the core
You mean core as in centre? The direct centre of Empire?
Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS.
Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.
|
Nick Bete
The Scope
Gallente Federation
469
|
Posted - 2016.07.24 07:30:56 -
[70] - Quote
Slayer Liberator wrote:Nitshe Razvedka wrote:This is just the time to announce the planning phase of the TIBUS HETH official Empire Monument. The planning committee is at odds as to where to site the structure. We throw it open to the public for suggestions. How about the core
The core of a neutron star? Yes please. |
Tarek Raimo
Eleutherian Guard
Villore Accords
48
|
Posted - 2016.07.24 08:11:45 -
[71] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:
As for the treaty that Foiritan has signed with Heth, it was violated of course... by gallenteans, of course. In YC115 with their 'Operation Highlander', when they smuggled clone soldiers to Caldari Prime and attempted to occupy our home world once again. Thanks to our own valiant ground troops the invasion was halted, but for now about half of our planet is still in enemy's hands.
This is factually incorrect. Operation Highlander was fully sanctioned by CONCORD after Tibus Heth gave the order to use the Shiigeru's weaponry against the people of Caldari Prime. An order which Admiral Visera Yanala refused to follow. A humanitarian act that cost her life.
I would also like to point out that Caldari Prime is not "in the enemy's hands" but it is a demilitarised world where citizens of Gallente and Caldari origin live together peacefully. It could serve as an example for both our nations, but unfortunately militant Provists like you and the nationalist hardliners in the Gallente Federation will do everything to keep us separated.
Unfortunately I have to admit that the power of the Black Eagles and the warmongers of Roden's military-industrial complex have far too much influence and power while the checks and balances of our nation have been eroded by them. I myself am labelled a criminal by the enforcers of that government despite the fact that I have dedicated myself to the protection of the defenceless baseliners in the border zone. Since I have never done any harm to civilians or Federation property, I can only assume that this is a politically motivated decision which is intended to silence dissenting opinions like mine. |
Nitshe Razvedka
1040
|
Posted - 2016.07.24 08:19:35 -
[72] - Quote
Nick Bete wrote:Slayer Liberator wrote:Nitshe Razvedka wrote:This is just the time to announce the planning phase of the TIBUS HETH official Empire Monument. The planning committee is at odds as to where to site the structure. We throw it open to the public for suggestions. How about the core The core of a neutron star? Yes please.
I am sure you were asleep during your astrophysics lecture that morning. Neutron stars are one of the smallest and densest celestial objects known to exist in the Universe. Seems a little tight to push Heth's monument there.
However, if we placed a translucent statue of Heth at the polar north of a neutron star, pulsar beams of electromagnetic radiation would send his giant image light-years across the universe.
Seems I am continually casting pearls before swine. Only another Caldari of my vast intellect could appreciate my brilliance. Literally in this particular proposal.
Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS.
Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.
|
Tarek Raimo
Eleutherian Guard
Villore Accords
48
|
Posted - 2016.07.24 08:37:09 -
[73] - Quote
Nitshe Razvedka wrote:
However, if we placed a translucent statue of Heth at the polar north of a neutron star, pulsar beams of electromagnetic radiation would send his giant image light-years across the universe.
I support this proposal. The whole cluster can use a constant reminder of where extreme nationalism and bigotry can lead. Tibus Heth would serve perfectly for that purpose. |
Tarek Raimo
Eleutherian Guard
Villore Accords
48
|
Posted - 2016.07.24 08:47:40 -
[74] - Quote
Mika Firestorm wrote:
But okay, since we are talking about gallente conspiracies, how about another one. A hypothesis, of course. Think about it, who would be this mysterious Xavier Black? Xavier is obvious gallente name, but Black? Do you know, how the word 'black' sound on gallentean? It is 'noir'. Do you think it is a coincidence that Federal Admiral had the same surname?
What if it was our old man Alexander all the time?
Unlikely.
Alexander Noir was a veteran of the first Caldari-Gallente war and had been a supporter of peace for many decades before the Malkalen Incident. Something else must have happened there. If I remember correctly from the Senate commission report, his fellow officers reported that his behaviour was strange and uncharacteristic throughout the day.
While it was not widely known that Sansha's Nation had reformed itself in Stain, I would not rule out the possibility that Sansha operatives could have used mind-control implants to direct his actions. After all, as we know today, the Sansha benefited significantly from the fact that our nations are at war and could not muster an effective concerted defence against their incursions which they must have been preparing for even then.
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2725
|
Posted - 2016.07.24 11:46:47 -
[75] - Quote
Tarek Raimo wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
(Note that three of them were killed by the Federation - and people ask why we hold a grudge!)
... and Visera Yanala was killed by Tibus Heth.
This is an ignorant point of view of those, who don't respect Caldari traditions and don't understand what does Tea Ceremony really mean.
The cup of tea is presented to a person who is believed to be wrong, and that person accepts the cup only if he believes himself doing something wrong. Accepting the tea, they accept their guilt and they submit themselves to the divine judgement for their actions. If the Maker will consider them worthy, they will be spared. Well, mythological part aside, scientifically it would be a test how strong a certain Caldari gene is expressed in them. But in any way, the most important part of the Ceremony is that the one who drinks the tea ACCEPTS IT WILLINGLY.
Those, who make the tea give honor to those, whom they prepare it for.
Now, returning back to Adm. Yanala. If she wouldn't have taken the tea, she would have presented to the tribunal. What she did and how many peoples she saved isn't really important. What the tribunal would judge her for would be a questioning whether she has executed all the orders she was given, and whether she has used the ship in most efficient way before it went down. I don't know what exactly happened there, which orders she was given or not... but there is definitely something wrong with a titan don't using a main weapon against hostile invading force. I am pretty sure that after tribunal her name could be covered in shame.
We have quite a lot of laws and codes, that we shall follow. Some of them contradict each other. For example, you could be sent to guard and save people, but a direct order contradict your task. Whether you will walk one way or another, you will have to violate something. And the situation where you commit one crime to not commit another one is common. And you lose your head for this, and you go for it with knowing that the death awaits you for your choice. Because this is Caldari way.
Tibus Heth helped Adm. Yanala to restore her honor. Now her military crimes are forgotten and she is revered as a national hero, because she disarmed the vessel and the damage the gallenteans caused to Caldari Prime with their treacherous attack and occupation attempt was minimized.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Tarek Raimo
Eleutherian Guard
Villore Accords
48
|
Posted - 2016.07.24 12:48:30 -
[76] - Quote
I too come from a society where tradition and the integrity of personal dignity are considered very important.
That is exactly why I can recognize when such traditions are being bent for personal reasons to force someone into suicide. It honours Admiral Yanala that she went into that situation without protest, but it is no coincidence that the CEP demanded an explanation from Heth for the proceedings.
If he had acted according to the rules of honour and tradition, he would have faced the CEP. Rather than doing so, he chose open insurrection and was treated accordingly. For all his grandstanding and moralising he turned out to be nothing but a self-serving terrorist at the end. |
Slayer Liberator
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
68
|
Posted - 2016.07.24 13:59:51 -
[77] - Quote
Tarek Raimo wrote:Nitshe Razvedka wrote:
However, if we placed a translucent statue of Heth at the polar north of a neutron star, pulsar beams of electromagnetic radiation would send his giant image light-years across the universe.
I support this proposal. The whole cluster can use a constant reminder of where extreme nationalism and bigotry can lead. Tibus Heth would serve perfectly for that purpose.
I second this proposal |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2734
|
Posted - 2016.07.24 14:15:05 -
[78] - Quote
Tarek Raimo wrote:For all his grandstanding and moralising he turned out to be nothing but a self-serving terrorist at the end.
At first I thought you could be a respectable human and opponent and could maintain proper and civil conversation...
But it turns out you are nothing but a petty scum, who degraded himself by public insults to Caldari fallen soldier and hero...
Thus I don't think that further conversation with you could be fruitful or pleasant considering your ignorant and aggressive stance.
And for the future. Terrorist is the one who has committed a terror act. Using this word as insult is at least stupid. And it is stupid twice if there were no terror acts.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Tarek Raimo
Eleutherian Guard
Villore Accords
50
|
Posted - 2016.07.24 18:50:06 -
[79] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:
And for the future. Terrorist is the one who has committed a terror act. Using this word as insult is at least stupid. And it is stupid twice if there were no terror acts.
It wasn't me who labelled Tibus Heth and the Templis Dragonaurs terrorists. It was the Caldari Navy itself
I agree that further discussion is not fruitful.
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2736
|
Posted - 2016.07.24 19:02:59 -
[80] - Quote
Tarek Raimo wrote:Diana Kim wrote:
And for the future. Terrorist is the one who has committed a terror act. Using this word as insult is at least stupid. And it is stupid twice if there were no terror acts.
It wasn't me who labelled Tibus Heth and the Templis Dragonaurs terrorists. It was the Caldari Navy itselfI agree that further discussion is not fruitful.
But it was YOUR word, that YOU said.
And YOU didn't say what exact terror act he committed. Because he obviously didn't.
This is why the further conversation is not fruitful.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Kumi Katikama
Haasmi Hinmon Clusterwide
1
|
Posted - 2016.07.24 19:52:53 -
[81] - Quote
I have requested this thread closed. No amount of money is worth dealing with Kim. |
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