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Ransoming System Needed !!!

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K0Swaves	Posted - 2007.03.08 19:39:00 - [1] Ransoming System Needed !!! Why isnt it implemented yet is beyond me... ATM there is very few successfull ransoming, mainly because there are no guaranties that if a ransom is payed the victim will be left alone. If the option of ransoming could insure the survival of the ship/pod it would obviously increase the numbers of successfull ransom attemp wich can benefit everybody : First and foremost the victim... for obvious reasons the ransom will be either less expensive than the loss and/or saving time, problems, headache, etc... wich is better paid than the alternative in the eye of the victim. Of course for those who disagree they always have the option of ending ganked/podded or for the lucky ones alive after escaping but in all case, with their pride intact. Than me and people like me who found themselves that the only real and interesting fun is through PvP but that PvP sucks cause you need ISK to sustain it. Hence you have to rat/mine preferably in 0.0 and after a while it sucks all the fun out of the game. So there would be an alternative for us who wants to fight (not raping a lone barge or hauler in 0.0) for fun and having the means to do it. it would drag more poeple in 0.0, more miners, more ratters, more PvPers...Wouldnt take out the risk out of low sec thanks to the legions of diehard griefers, they'll have more potential targets to pod and still will be able to post their killmails. Therefore the only people who would not profit from that would be those who ocasionnaly manage to get a ransom out of their victims and like to pod em anyways. I know this aint the first time it is proposed I just dont know why it has never been taking into consideration by CCP. If you think this is a good idea, say it... That way maybe it'll get us somewhere If you dont think it is a good idea, say it... That way me might generate a construvtive debate
monkeyduck Mithril Inc Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.08 19:50:00 - [2] Edited by: monkeyduck on 08/03/2007 19:47:54 I'm actually surprised ransoming works period. It seems sort of counterintuitive... if you have a crappy ship/cargo, why pay the ransom (unless extremely low)? Just take the insurance and be on your way. However, one would want to pay the ransom if they have very expensive loot. Loot a pirate is after. Now the option is to... trust the pirate? If there is one thing people should have lost as soon as starting an online game, it's the trust of those they are playing with. /self-destruct and warp away, insurance will cover it Edit: Since I wasn't clear, a system that made this work would be nice I guess. Atleast it'd be a viable option for some.
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.03.08 19:53:00 - [3] I see where you are coming from with this, and it surely would make ransoming a lot easier. However, I kind of like the fact that it's not easy. It's not a grind. It's persuasion, intimidation and generally interacting with other human beings. A good pirate will get his ransoms. A bad pirate might get them occasionally, but not often. Piracy is as much about reputation and people skills as it is about yarr and pew-pew. I like EVE as a sandbox, where I have the option to be a liar and a scoundrel. I like how acting like that will eventually tarnish my reputation enough to make a dent in my profits, and summon other pirates and antis to put me down. An automated system <Pay ransom: y/n> would totally suck in my opinion, and just be another mechanic that gets in the way of human interaction. Disclaimer: I say "me" and "I" a lot, but don't necessarily mean myself. /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Nir The Doldrums	Posted - 2007.03.08 20:07:00 - [4] Originally by: monkeyduck snip Well once upon a time, there was no base insurance. There was no 12 week insurance either. Nor were there sentry guns everywhere. That was the time when ransoms were asked for, whereas now people just activate their 8 smartbombs as you warp to zero to the gate they are camping, their alt in a tanked transport scoops the loot and you wake up in a cloning station. The key difference is that I have never been ransomed or know of anyone ingame who has, let alone given the option to pay or not pay one.
monkeyduck Mithril Inc Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.08 20:10:00 - [5] Edited by: monkeyduck on 08/03/2007 20:06:33 Wouldn't necessarily have to be that, Ki. Still talk and do your intimidating, stroke a few things if you wish, then enter the amount into a system: click player, click ransom, enter amount. If he pays, you (and maybe your corp) can't target him for... 2-5mins (?).. and he goes on his merry way with his ship. Peerats still get to thump their chests, those who pay get their limited security and everyone is happy. I still wouldn't pay, but I'm stubborn that way. I'd rather no one got anything.
Stakhanov Shih Yang Tong	Posted - 2007.03.08 20:22:00 - [6] Originally by: Ki An An automated system <Pay ransom: y/n> would totally suck in my opinion, and just be another mechanic that gets in the way of human interaction. Seconded. Piracy often seems impersonal from the victim's perspective (those who lack lightning fast reflexes)
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.03.08 20:25:00 - [7] Originally by: monkeyduck idea Well, the way I play EVE it wouldn't make a differance, but then again, I do see more and more people who are in it for the killmail and nothing else. I suppose this could work, but I don't want it to have to come to that. Every little bit of choice you remove from EVE makes the game a bit worse, imo. This idea would take away the pirate's option to shoot his victim after being paid a ransom. This is a ****ty thing to do for a pirate, but not having the option would be worse. All imo. And, for the record. I've always honored ransoms. I don't like pirates who don't. They ruin the business for the rest of us. Still, it's their choice. /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
12'' Tony	Posted - 2007.03.08 21:02:00 - [8] any of the previously mentioned methods over the years are simply open to abuse, there is no way to impliment this without forcing 1 party to "stop" meaning another party could finish them regardless.
Zyo Zack	Posted - 2007.03.08 21:37:00 - [9] Originally by: K0Swaves Ransoming System Needed !!! lol get a life!
hedfunk Caldari Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.08 21:54:00 - [10] Meh, some sort of ransoming system would be kinda cool

Rico Naginata Catalyst Reaction Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.08 21:56:00 - [11] I'm afraid your char looks too much like mine for me to take you seriously Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes LOL UR PINK NOW
Christopher Dalran Gallente Deadly Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.08 22:55:00 - [12] I'm sort of against any system that takes free will out of the equation, i dont realy want the game to dictate my ethics. ------------------------------- C.D's Formula for success ------------------------------- Credit Card = Game Time Card Gametime Card = ISK Therefore Credit Card = ISK.
Keta Min Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2007.03.08 23:16:00 - [13] no thanks. ransoms still happen, and a pirate's reputation for honoring his deals is a valuable thing that you build up. we don't need any more game mechanics that take player interaction and skill out of the game. had enough of those introduced already.
Dr Slice OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.03.08 23:23:00 - [14] Originally by: Keta Min no thanks. ransoms still happen, and a pirate's reputation for honoring his deals is a valuable thing that you build up. we don't need any more game mechanics that take player interaction and skill out of the game. had enough of those introduced already. QFT. Ukraine ftw!
B1G DAVE Mining and Research Industrial Organisation Hell Hounds	Posted - 2007.03.09 00:53:00 - [15] So automate Another aspect of the game? At this rate, we will just log in and watch the computer do all the work -.-
DarkElf Caldari Veto.	Posted - 2007.03.09 01:16:00 - [16] tbh i have ransomed hundreds of victims successfully. without blowing my golden shiny trumpet i do believe there is skill involved DE
K0Swaves	Posted - 2007.03.09 06:09:00 - [17] Thanx all of you for replying... So far it seems that there is some in favor of it, mostly from a potential victim point of view... And than the people against (at least in that thread) would be those who are already ransoming and would like to keep the possibility of podding someone who already have paid... Weither for the fun of it or because without that liberty it would feel like the game limits your playstyle. And than, people that manage so far to ransom better than others because they are skilled and experienced ransomers. So since Im obviously in favor of it I would like to ask those who feel they get it to work well for them because they are good and accomplished at it, in such a system I assume the ammount to be payed will still be at the discretion of the agressor and Im sure being talented will help getting a good amount better than say 30% of what the victim would have been ready to pay for an unexperienced ransomer. This system dont have to kill all the interaction between 2 players on the contrary it could reenforce it by solving the trust issue. Considering the fact that even you would benefit from such a system because no matter as good you are... How many refused to pay not because this wasnt appealing but because they did not trust you ? maybe because they never heard of some ransom that ended good for the victim... or because they dont believe some pirates still understand the value of leaving them alive. Maybe because your so well earned reputation havent traveled out as far as you thought or because that the game is constantly evolving towards big gangs at gate that just sit and gank and loot... No matter the reason, that number would drasticly diminish with such a system meaning more ISK, less security status loss, more potential prey, less time spent rating/mining so more PvP (I have to assume you guys rather PvPing). Wouldnt it be worth it ? Wouldnt it be worth it ? That question stands for those of you who like to lure someone into a ransom and than just pod him. You might loose that fun but you could gain to it too. And If you just feel like ganking and podding just do it... Im sure anyway these few ransomed guy that ended in a clone arent a big chunk of your incomes (at least the ransom part). As for the fact that any system that would permit it could be abuse I have to agree a third party could wait a bit further to pod the victim that already been ransomed but that would be the exeption instead of the rule and the benefit of such a system would still be of value. Not mentionning that this fact alone actually keep the importance of being experienced at ransoming using psychology, instead of loosing it as some as fear. And than again there is all the ones that would have rather paid you but didnt and those who would gladly jump into the business to consider. After all it is not because we aint the one ransoming in game that it means our opinion should be disregard. Finally everyone assumed that a system like this would have to be a pop up - Pay ransom Y - N when the idea is just to find a solution satisfying for everyone. Why not something like the security status system... Once a ransom is paid, a guy could get blow up but the agressors trustworhty standing would have dropped. Any suggestions are open but there is defenetly a need for this debate.
K0Swaves	Posted - 2007.03.09 06:22:00 - [18] The more I think of the idea of a security status like system the more I like it... No one is force to do anything whatsoever... It is just that now there would be a decent vector for this reputation that you refer too. From what I hear you spend time building it and I no doubt believe you but I think it is kind of limitated to a short amount of players... At least with a trust meter, you diserve the trust people have (or dont ) in you. Wich doesnt means that at times you cant pod someone who just paid you... Maybe because once he did he smacktalked in local or maybe just because you felt like it but in the end everyone is happy, things are close to what they were, just more efficient... What you guys think ?
jimmyjam Gallente Turbulent	Posted - 2007.03.09 16:36:00 - [19] I know we in turby ransom ships all the time .Allthough it needs to be a ship worth ransoming.As far as haveing a pop up type idea for ransom i think would pi me off while i was trying to kill someone. Metagaming** is a broad term usually used to define any strategy, action or method used in a game which transcends a prescribed ruleset, uses external factors to affect the game,
Siigari Kitawa Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.09 18:29:00 - [20] "pie-rat: give isk" "you: no" "pie-rat: i knew i should have gotten the ransom skill to V.." _________________ Burn.

Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.03.09 19:15:00 - [21] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 09/03/2007 19:11:12 I brought this up before, but people felt that Eve should continue to be about the freedom to betray and lie if you want to. A ransom system that makes it impossible to both ask for a ransom and then kill the victim is not really possible either, since friends of the pirate could kill the victim afterwards. So I think its probably not such a good idea after all to have a ransom system. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
K0Swaves	Posted - 2007.03.09 20:33:00 - [22] ...But a system in wich by betraying you just loose a little more your reputation wouldnt make it impossible to betray but only insure that if you do it too often people will be less incline to pay you... wich should be in the natural order of things, but ATM the guy who never respect his words while ransoming, if as well skilled to ransom as his couterpart that always be truth to his words has the same chance of having a positive response to ransom... ...And should I say it again, there would be more positive response to ransom for those who works to keep up their reputation ATM...
Neal Cassady Shih Yang Tong	Posted - 2007.03.10 02:32:00 - [23] Originally by: DarkElf tbh i have ransomed hundreds of victims successfully. without blowing my golden shiny trumpet i do believe there is skill involved DE couldn't agree more... the most difficult thing for me to learn as a nub pirate was to successfully ransom. youre exposed in the belt or on the gate, you dont know if friends are on the way. if youre new to pvp you probably still have the shakes and all kinds of nervous jitters. rats may be blowing your target up while they're disabled. you have to watch the scanner for inbound hostiles. this is a lot to think about and process. one of the most difficult and important pirate skills out there. neal
Arekhon Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2007.03.10 03:03:00 - [24] don't you dare mess with ransoms....no need. personality > automation right click: select your ransom amount 1mil 5mil 10mil....etc right click: dishonor ransom sry m8 but what your asking for would take skill and character out of a player interaction based game... my thoughts and ideas represent your corp
K0Swaves	Posted - 2007.03.10 05:02:00 - [25] Why people keep thinking it would have to be an automated system ??? Could be just a trust securitystatuslike system... ...And please explain me what would be dishonnorable about it ? The main purpose of it would be to insure the honnor or at least to insure that honorable ransomers can be recognize as such.
Decrepus Raiders of the Lost Cans	Posted - 2007.03.10 05:03:00 - [26] The whole 'trust' issue is what makes EVE so dynamic. You won't respawn with all of your crap. If you are ransomed, everything you have is on the line. That is why you refuse the ransom, because otherwise you lose the ransom money and your ship. 1. Insure ship 2. ? 3. I forget this one too 4. PROFIT
Dr Slice OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.03.10 08:45:00 - [27] Originally by: Decrepus The whole 'trust' issue is what makes EVE so dynamic. You won't respawn with all of your crap. If you are ransomed, everything you have is on the line. That is why you refuse the ransom, because otherwise you lose the ransom money and your ship. 1. Insure ship 2. ? 3. I forget this one too 4. PROFIT Hi Decrep Alot of people assume that you will get your ship destroyed after paying the ransom. I don't know why. 99% of ransoms that come from Pirates are honored. That 1% that do not, well if it happens, post his name and corp in these forums and you will see the response it gets from other Pirates. For those of you saying to not pay ransoms because your ship will still be destroyed, post some stories and evidence of this, it lends more credibility. There is too many downsides and disadvantages for someone to kill the ship after the ransom is paid. If you want, I can list them out for ya.
Johnny Gurkha Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.03.10 11:20:00 - [28] Ransoming works as it is IMO, infact it adds an extra edge to the proceedings especially if local is busy!
Mr Jay Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2007.03.10 11:23:00 - [29] Edited by: Mr Jay on 10/03/2007 11:20:33 Originally by: Dr Slice Originally by: Keta Min no thanks. ransoms still happen, and a pirate's reputation for honoring his deals is a valuable thing that you build up. we don't need any more game mechanics that take player interaction and skill out of the game. had enough of those introduced already. QFT. Ukraine ftw! STFU. GTFO. Ukraine 4tl. n0obs 4tw. Edit: Someone help me ransom or pod Keta. I can give you exact locations and ships he flies. EVE-mail me Absolute Evil pwned my sig =(
Keta Min Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2007.03.10 12:10:00 - [30] Originally by: Mr Jay n0obs 4tw. yep love them too. that's why you're in the corp \o/



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