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How good are Hybrids against Serpentis

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Falande Discipuli Vaccae 0	Posted - 2011.12.21 00:11:00 - [1] - Quote Hello, i am a passionated level 4 mission runner, have flown mostly tengu and machariel. After flying those ships i want a little change, and since i am in love with the design of the vindicator i want to try it out against serpentis. Can someone say me if the Vindicator is a good Ship for level 4 mission against Serpentis and if it is comparable with the machariel in matters of killspeed??
Flurk Hellbron Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 16	Posted - 2011.12.21 00:15:00 - [2] - Quote Guess it's gonna be a less good ship for missioning as the Machariel. Just from what I read in other posts on these forums, no experience..... sorry. But just try it out and come tell here urself?
Falande Discipuli Vaccae 0	Posted - 2011.12.21 00:32:00 - [3] - Quote i would try it biy myself, but there are still 40 days left for t2 weapons :/
Arazel Chainfire Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension 32	Posted - 2011.12.21 01:21:00 - [4] - Quote From flying the mach, the vindicator is no improvement. It might be from running a tengu... not sure, I never really liked them for missions, but I was also always more of a battleship pilot. Heres the thing. A mach can put out around 1100ish dps (give or take some depending upon fit, implants, skills, pimping, etc) with an optimal of 5km and 70ish km of falloff. This means that its still doing just short of 900dps at 40km (80% dps at optimal + 1/2 falloff). Tank is enough for missions as long as you pay attention and don't fall asleep. Switching to vindicator though, you have 2 options: Option 1 - blasters: Blasters can dump out up to 1800 gun dps from the vindicator. The problem? 10km range. You can probably still get out to around 1000dps at 20km, but it falls off excessively fast after that. Or you can switch to null and get about 1000ish dps (don't have EFT/PYFA available atm, so just guessing off remembered numbers for that) which gives you a range of about 15km optimal (depending upon fit) and around 20km of falloff. So you can do about 800dps at 25km, and about 500 at 35km, with it steadily dropping after that. The vindi is also slower and less agile than the mach, so getting into range is slower. Alltogether, I would say that it is less effective than a mach, mostly due to range issues. Option 2 - rails: Railguns you max out at less than 900dps with CN antimatter. I think it may be actually less than 800, but I forgot... that might have been before the rail buff. But it is still significantly less than the mach out to 40km. After 40km it might get better, but the optimal on 450's is 36km before tracking computers (with antimatter loaded). Then you run into the next problem... the absurdly low locking range. IIRC, the locking range on a vindi is less than 60km, I just can't remember if that is before or after skills. Lastly, even with the changes to railgun fittings, the fitting on the vindi is still excessively tight with a 450mm fit, making fitting the tank tough. This leads to a problem of deciding upon dps, range, or tank, with only 1 of the 3 really being possible at any one time. Once again, I would rate it worse than a mach. So in conclusion, I recommend sticking to the mach. The only place for a vindi in PvE is in incursions... and even there the mach is probably better anyways. -Arazel
RubyPorto Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion 176	Posted - 2011.12.21 03:27:00 - [5] - Quote Arazel Chainfire wrote: So in conclusion, I recommend sticking to the mach. The only place for a vindi in PvE is in incursions... and even there the mach is probably better anyways. -Arazel From using a HAM tengu in Serpentis Forsaken Hubs (everything spawned within Faction Web range), I have to assume a Vindi would be sick in those as well. The range in missions are probably going to be your biggest problem, forcing you to MWD like mad or use Failgins... they've been buffed, so I guess I should change their name to failguns. And that crucifies your DPS.
Arazel Chainfire Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension 32	Posted - 2011.12.21 04:47:00 - [6] - Quote RubyPorto wrote: Arazel Chainfire wrote: So in conclusion, I recommend sticking to the mach. The only place for a vindi in PvE is in incursions... and even there the mach is probably better anyways. -Arazel From using a HAM tengu in Serpentis Forsaken Hubs (everything spawned within Faction Web range), I have to assume a Vindi would be sick in those as well. The range in missions are probably going to be your biggest problem, forcing you to MWD like mad or use Failgins... they've been buffed, so I guess I should change their name to failguns. And that crucifies your DPS. Running forsaken hubs myself, I would say that too many battleships try to run away from you to make it still effective. Or it would have tank issues. That being said, may have to switch my tengu's to HAM's... still can manage about 30km range on them without any rigs needed. -Arazel
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE 27	Posted - 2011.12.21 05:01:00 - [7] - Quote vindis can at least put out some awesome numbers :D [Vindicator, New Setup 3] Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Gist X-Type Large Shield Booster Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Large Hybrid Burst Aerator II [empty rig slot] Large Core Defence Capacitor Safeguard I Warden II x4 Hobgoblin II x5
RubyPorto Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion 176	Posted - 2011.12.21 05:16:00 - [8] - Quote Arazel Chainfire wrote: RubyPorto wrote: Arazel Chainfire wrote: So in conclusion, I recommend sticking to the mach. The only place for a vindi in PvE is in incursions... and even there the mach is probably better anyways. -Arazel From using a HAM tengu in Serpentis Forsaken Hubs (everything spawned within Faction Web range), I have to assume a Vindi would be sick in those as well. The range in missions are probably going to be your biggest problem, forcing you to MWD like mad or use Failgins... they've been buffed, so I guess I should change their name to failguns. And that crucifies your DPS. Running forsaken hubs myself, I would say that too many battleships try to run away from you to make it still effective. Or it would have tank issues. That being said, may have to switch my tengu's to HAM's... still can manage about 30km range on them without any rigs needed. -Arazel I was making 22mil ticks pre-buff. Dunno what the range distribution is on the new buffed Serp Forsaken Hubs. That's the real sticking point for HAMs. I also did a range rig + a T2 damage (either ROF or damage, don't remember). As for the vindi being to slow to do the same, that is certainly possible, but they have awesomewinsauce webs.
Arctur Vallfar Knights Adamant 14	Posted - 2011.12.21 19:43:00 - [9] - Quote As you can see, the Vindicator isn't as streamlining as the Machariel or Tengu. But if you ask me, those sorts of ships can make missioning too mechanical after a while. The Vindicator will work. You'll just have to approach the missions a bit differently. I, for instance, now use a Typhoon because I just find more entertainment in chasing ships down for a ridiculous short range bombardment of torpedo/autocannon fire in a ship that looks like a gargantuan booze keg with engines taped on. It isn't as time effective as a speedy grindfest ship, but I fly it anyway. I'll still fly a couple missions in my snorefest Dominix if I have AFK stuff to do, too, but it changes things up a bit. So if you want to fly a Vindicator, go right ahead. Just cherry pick what suits you from the recommendations posted above and carry on.
Saramiir Onyx Consortium Viro Mors Non Est 0	Posted - 2011.12.22 05:58:00 - [10] - Quote Just fly a Kronos, hits 1k dps from turrets(rails) and 135 dps from drones(3 wardens, serp gurista) curators/bouncers do abit more, 5% hardwirings, it's got better targeting range and it's alot cheaper on ammo
Raven Ether Republic University Minmatar Republic 68	Posted - 2011.12.22 13:36:00 - [11] - Quote So the Rattlesnake can't compare to the Machariel, Vindicator or Nightmare for PVE?
RubyPorto Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion 182	Posted - 2011.12.22 14:26:00 - [12] - Quote Raven Ether wrote: So the Rattlesnake can't compare to the Machariel, Vindicator or Nightmare for PVE? Depends what you're doing. The Rattlesnake is PvE easymode. Get aggro, deploy drones, take nap. Nightmare requires a teeny bit of work to remember to pop frigs first. Mach requires a bit more work since you're now fast enough to pilot around to do more damage. In exchange, the Mach and Nightmare do a TON more dps than the Rattler, so they run the missions faster > More Isk.
Snyderm Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension 0	Posted - 2011.12.26 17:51:00 - [13] - Quote After the incarnate patch my hyperion (solo) makes 26-32 million each bounty cycle in forsaken hubs (only). Its tank is often broken on the spawn from warp in, but doesn't get below 40% armor due to the nice buffer on the hyp. This is repeatable every single time without much difficulty. Some people insist that it doesn't work because certain battleships fly away from you. This is never, ever an issue as long as you remember what their names are and shoot them FIRST. Core Grand admirals will orbit you at 54k. Shoot them first so they don't get outside of 25k. On warp in, fly towards the center of where the ships spawned. Shoot battleships first. Once there are only a few battleships left, stop your ship. This will be roughly the center of the spawn. Camp it. The only catch is that you probably need tech 2 blasters because some of the spawns have tech 2 cruisers that orbit you at 30k, so you will need null ammo to efficiently kill them.
Phizban The Needs Of The Few The Needs Of The Few Many 182	Posted - 2012.01.02 23:07:00 - [14] - Quote RubyPorto wrote: Arazel Chainfire wrote: RubyPorto wrote: Arazel Chainfire wrote: So in conclusion, I recommend sticking to the mach. The only place for a vindi in PvE is in incursions... and even there the mach is probably better anyways. -Arazel From using a HAM tengu in Serpentis Forsaken Hubs (everything spawned within Faction Web range), I have to assume a Vindi would be sick in those as well. The range in missions are probably going to be your biggest problem, forcing you to MWD like mad or use Failgins... they've been buffed, so I guess I should change their name to failguns. And that crucifies your DPS. Running forsaken hubs myself, I would say that too many battleships try to run away from you to make it still effective. Or it would have tank issues. That being said, may have to switch my tengu's to HAM's... still can manage about 30km range on them without any rigs needed. -Arazel I was making 22mil ticks pre-buff. Dunno what the range distribution is on the new buffed Serp Forsaken Hubs. That's the real sticking point for HAMs. I also did a range rig + a T2 damage (either ROF or damage, don't remember). As for the vindi being to slow to do the same, that is certainly possible, but they have awesomewinsauce webs. It is pronouced awesomesauce.
The Djego Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition 15	Posted - 2012.01.02 23:58:00 - [15] - Quote Get a Kronos, fit a sensor booster, much quicker for most of the serpentis missions in general(the low lock range really hurts in combination with damps). With implants and sentry drones both ships can pull off about 950-1k DPS with T1 ammo at 37km with enough tracking, what will create similar results as in a Mach at this ranges, however the lower tracking will matter once the targets get close(till they hit the 90% web range) and it actually does a bit better above 50km(hardly a issue since you just move the mach closer in this case). Also if you like blaster like gank for pve, you love puls\tach setups(I do).
Mathis Athins Paragon. Elite Space Guild 1	Posted - 2012.01.04 22:47:00 - [16] - Quote RubyPorto wrote: Arazel Chainfire wrote: So in conclusion, I recommend sticking to the mach. The only place for a vindi in PvE is in incursions... and even there the mach is probably better anyways. -Arazel From using a HAM tengu in Serpentis Forsaken Hubs (everything spawned within Faction Web range), I have to assume a Vindi would be sick in those as well. The range in missions are probably going to be your biggest problem, forcing you to MWD like mad or use Failgins... they've been buffed, so I guess I should change their name to failguns. And that crucifies your DPS. A bit OT, but mind posting your fit? Been debating on HMs or HAMs for my Tengu.
1-Up Mushroom Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 1757	Posted - 2012.01.04 23:09:00 - [17] - Quote http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/57958-Vindicator-Pimped-L4-Missioner.html Notice the graph 5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!-á If You Like My Sig, Like Me!-áRemember EVE is EVErything!
CeneUJiti School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 2	Posted - 2012.01.05 00:30:00 - [18] - Quote 1-Up Mushroom wrote: http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/57958-Vindicator-Pimped-L4-Missioner.html Notice the graph Rest of fittings are more or less in line with Vindi. But X-type LAR and A hardeners make the entire thing silly. Just buy a T2 BPO; it will be cheaper. :P

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