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The feasibility of longterm Bandwagon stability

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Lord Guffy Minmatar Lame Duck Logistics	Posted - 2007.03.09 21:10:00 - [1] Edited by: Lord Guffy on 09/03/2007 21:09:37 Please - no flames in this thread. This is a serious suggestion about the cyclical nature of Eve's politics, and not for smacking current alliances / corps I find the current political landscape in Eve fascinating, because I think the seeds have been planted for one of the most fertile years in Eve I've ever seen. I'm amazed by the constant claims that alliances are dead / other coallitions are uber / existances have been wiped out etc. The things that I'll be watching out for are: - How long Goons will hang on to their supposed 'high ground'. Just a few short months ago, Goons were the most loathed alliance in Eve due to their treatment of a certain real life incident. This seems to have been totally forgotten - quite rightly so, it was a dark chapter in our history. In our very recent past, BoB were also lauded as the most impressive alliance in Eve. Rightly or wrongly. Just goes to show how fickle we all are. - Can the Bandwaggon alliance genuinely share any kind of power? RA are, undoubtably an impressive alliance. However their play style and personality are immesurably different from Goons. How long can a show of unity last between such polarised attitudes to the game? I have to say, I think their current combination is deadly - a strong base of true PVPers, with the best meatshield you could hope for. Truly an awesome force. But what happens when peacetime comes, and their shared objective no longer exists? How will they share power? Will they still be able to have joint goals when they're so different in psychology? My personal prediction, for what little it matters, is this: - Bandwagoneers push Coallition out of their claimed space, and the victors enjoy several months of relative prosperity. However they'll also be caught up in a lot of tedious logistics. After a while they'll get bogged down with with the humdrum, but they'll continue to enjoy their space. - At about the same time, the former Coalition have recouped their losses and are starting to regain enthusism for the game, after having had it pounded out of them by a pretty demoralising loss. - During this period, the fanboi community get a little bored of bandwagoneers once the prospect of joining the 'victorious' side in an 'epic' war has faded, and slowly people shuffle back to where they were. - The *****s begin to show in what was only ever an opportunistic partnership between Ragoons and their assorted mercs / corps. Differences in political views begin to emerge, and strains appear in the relationship. - The resentment created by a number of alliances suddenly switching to Bandwagon Alliance festers amongst many players (look at what happened with Youwhat recently). Disgruntled players and those with a point to prove amass at the boders of Ragoon space. And yet another fantastic era in Eve begins..... Again, please no flaming. Yes my perspective is slightly anti Ragoon - I think they showed excellent tactics but little morality - but all I'm hoping for here are serious comments on how this could unfold longer term. How would you write the history of the coming year in Eve? Many sides not fully declared
Baline Aegis Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.03.09 21:20:00 - [2] What about "The bandwagon kills BoB (in the case the coalition wins, and BoB could be killed, which i personnally doubt about), the circumstance-NAPs are removed, and the alliances fight against each other... like before" ? -- Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] with a link to your signature. - Elmo Pug http://saigneurvador.free.fr/fortune/graph2.php
Hermia HIVE X-PACT	Posted - 2007.03.09 21:20:00 - [3] just to make some things clear, all of the sides in this conflict are guilty of setting up bandwagons, BOB are, LV are, and obviouly RAGOON/D2. The idea is not to give BOB a fair fight, there is nothing wrong with that either. The game at that level is more about making sure your the one with the bandwagon, strategic friendships, etc. It would be wrong for the allies to stay friendly after the dust settles and would be fully expected reset friendships. They all know this and must be comfortable with it, we are after all one big community anyway .
Ty'derian ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.03.09 21:30:00 - [4] Lord Guffy why do you dont POST witg your BOB Main Char ??
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.03.09 21:37:00 - [5] Originally by: Ty'derian Lord Guffy why do you dont POST witg your BOB Main Char ?? QFT
Hubris Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.03.09 21:40:00 - [6] this is my own opinion and not that of snigg or pandemic legion. Well firstly i think the term bandwagoneers is utterly false. If it was, all of eve would be on this "bandwagon" and that hasn't happened. True there are a lot of former opponents that are blue to each other. But it is more of a common goal that we all share. I personally haven't seen this much blue for years and years. LV space became a blue gob of non targets. That was very odd, we had no one to play with. We resolved that by moving right into bob space. its fun there Your topic is a good question tho. Its something that i bet many of the coalition have thought about. But i doubt many have put much thought directly into it. Most seem to be just having a lot of fun right now. In the next few months/weeks/days it takes to pick apart bob and pets will undoubtably be the most fun many will have in eve to date. Once that fun is over there will prob be a lot of meetings and such. A lot of grand standing and flame fests. Then everything will slow and groups will go back to what they did before. I do think a lot of the relationships forged in this epic war will hold for a log time. Some will for sure fall apart for this reason or that. Its human nature and has been that way all through history. Only time will tell. -
Sathrai No Quarter. C0VEN	Posted - 2007.03.09 21:57:00 - [7] From what I've read & seen, RA and the Goons could probably coexist happily for a long, long time. Not too worried about that relationship going to hell, so long as the Goons don't touch RA's complexes. As for the rest of the relationship...well, seeing as most of the people in the Coalition have acknowledged that after this mess is over it's back to the political status quo (no desire for a lasting allied hegemony spanning all corners of 0.0 here!), I think people will be able to keep their act together until the job is done.
Heikki Gallente Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2007.03.09 22:14:00 - [8] Originally by: Lord Guffy were the most loathed alliance in Eve Njah, I think they were welcomed as a new kind of corporation (noobs straight to 0.0 pvp), except by some party riding on some RL incident, and their bandwagoners. Biased opinions for the win; bandwagoner alliance starting to feel to powerful for your taste? -Lasse
Lord Guffy Minmatar Lame Duck Logistics	Posted - 2007.03.09 22:14:00 - [9] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Originally by: Ty'derian Lord Guffy why do you dont POST witg your BOB Main Char ?? QFT Perhaps because I don't have one...? It's a rather short sighted to assume that any post that doesn't advocate total superiority for Ragoons and co must, by definition, be BoB. There are many in this world who aren't polarised in an 'either with us or against us' attitude. As for use of Bandwagoon, I entirely agree that it's not the first time and I possibly used a perjorative term here - I'm simply using the terminology that's most common on these forums.
Xade Caldari K.T.P	Posted - 2007.03.09 22:27:00 - [10] Well tbh i have been thinking this myself and i am suprised the ra and goon relationship has been as sturdy as it has been. RA certainly are a well grounded alliance being mostly vetrans but they have sat on the sidelines during most of the war and only got involved after Goonswarm have cleared the way for them.... or crashed the node for them. After all this effort Goonswarm now need alot of isk to secure its space and pay back RA the billons it borrowed from them. The problem is RA have also taken away the most profitable 0.0 enviroment by requesting that no goonswarm are allowed in the complexes. This will cause conflict because goons don't like being told what to do and become more arogant and big headed by the day. Goonswarm lack skills and pos management on the scale they are working to requires alot of dedication and time by players who don't find it boring but are also capable of keeping a 50+ large pos's fueled. This is requires atleast a couple of bil a week. Goonswarm has too many new players who have not really had a chance to experience anything outside so my guess is alot will leave after they realise they are ebing treated as remedials personal slaves because the free trade zone isn't working. Once goonswarm begins to fragment then all the alliances they have recently have affected during the war will come down on them like a tonne of bricks because all the badwagoners would have got fed up with fighting their war. I personally can't wait for this day because i feel Goonswarm as an alliance are resposible for creating a distastfull hatered in the eve community towards other alliances and some of its actions have been very ungamely to put it politely.
Lord Guffy Minmatar Lame Duck Logistics	Posted - 2007.03.09 22:31:00 - [11] Thanks for the positive contributions. I genuinely hope we can keep this thread as a smack free discussion of how this could play out longer term.
Jarling Fang Perkone	Posted - 2007.03.09 22:49:00 - [12] Originally by: Lord Guffy Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Originally by: Ty'derian Lord Guffy why do you dont POST witg your BOB Main Char ?? QFT Perhaps because I don't have one...? It's a rather short sighted to assume that any post that doesn't advocate total superiority for Ragoons and co must, by definition, be BoB. There are many in this world who aren't polarised in an 'either with us or against us' attitude. As for use of Bandwagoon, I entirely agree that it's not the first time and I possibly used a perjorative term here - I'm simply using the terminology that's most common on these forums. It's not so much that you're not advocating a "pro-coalition" viewpoint that makes you a prime BoB-alt suspect. Rather, its the subtle implication that has been repeated over and over in other threads by unknown "non-BoB alts" that coalition members could turn on each other at any moment, with no counter viewpoint on the weaknesses of the "BoB alliance" or what kind of "positive" outcomes might result from BoB's complete destruction. Token small praises for coalition members are also typically thrown in to add credibility to such threads. In other words, the unobjective nature of your post is what screams "BoB-alt propaganda" to everyone. If you truly are just an interested third party trying to stir up some stimulating debate, may I suggest a more balanced approach?
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.03.09 22:49:00 - [13] Originally by: Lord Guffy Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Originally by: Ty'derian Lord Guffy why do you dont POST witg your BOB Main Char ?? QFT Perhaps because I don't have one...? It's a rather short sighted to assume that any post that doesn't advocate total superiority for Ragoons and co must, by definition, be BoB. There are many in this world who aren't polarised in an 'either with us or against us' attitude. As for use of Bandwagoon, I entirely agree that it's not the first time and I possibly used a perjorative term here - I'm simply using the terminology that's most common on these forums. You're a 1 month old character, who joined a corp within 35 mins of creation. It screams alt... -------------- In completely unrelated news, after careful research, the Guiding Hand Social Club concludes that no member of the Guiding Hand Social Club is guilty of corptheft.
Dirtball Kemono. Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.10 00:05:00 - [14] The end result will be everyone fighting over the 15 plex's within 8 jumps of NOL dont worry when its over I'll say gf in a thread and that will make up for all my tinfoilery please keep the local hate coming, nothing like people who log in bubbles calling me a stab***** while never having locked me their entire eve career
Phrixus Zephyr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.03.10 00:06:00 - [15] Everyone knows this coaltion will break down at some point. Thats the way of Eve and none of us would have it any other way. Originally by: Ice Conch In soviet russia, soap drops you!
Lord Guffy Minmatar Lame Duck Logistics	Posted - 2007.03.10 00:26:00 - [16] Edited by: Lord Guffy on 10/03/2007 00:22:57 Originally by: Jarling Fang Edited by: Jarling Fang on 09/03/2007 23:09:07 Edited by: Jarling Fang on 09/03/2007 22:59:19 Edited by: Jarling Fang on 09/03/2007 22:57:53 Originally by: Lord Guffy Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Originally by: Ty'derian Lord Guffy why do you dont POST witg your BOB Main Char ?? QFT Perhaps because I don't have one...? It's a rather short sighted to assume that any post that doesn't advocate total superiority for Ragoons and co must, by definition, be BoB. There are many in this world who aren't polarised in an 'either with us or against us' attitude. As for use of Bandwagoon, I entirely agree that it's not the first time and I possibly used a perjorative term here - I'm simply using the terminology that's most common on these forums. It's not so much that you're not advocating a "pro-coalition" viewpoint that makes you a prime BoB-alt suspect. Rather, its the subtle implication that has been repeated over and over in other threads by unknown "non-BoB alts" that coalition members could turn on each other at any moment, or how their victory could inherently create an unstable vaccum of power, with no counter viewpoint on the negative effects of a "BoB alliance" victory or what kind of "positive" outcomes might result from BoB's complete destruction. Token small praises for coalition members are also typically thrown in to add credibility to such threads. In other words, the unobjective nature of your post is what screams "BoB-alt propaganda" to everyone. Edit: That, and as someone already pointed out you are a 1 month old character that joined a corp. almost immediately after creation. If you truly are just an interested third party trying to stir up some stimulating debate, may I suggest a more balanced approach? Oh, and because nobody's said it yet - "#12 in a BoB thread!" I'm posting from non-alliance precisely to get away from being drawn in to this kind of smack. It's a shame that so many here are, like me, genuinely interested in looking at this from a longer term point of view, but you're concerned only with the short term. There are many threads here that you can contribute to in a non-constructive way. Perhaps you can seek them out, rather than trying to turn a thread that was turning into an interesting exploration of how the patterns of eve repeat into yet another part of the forum war.
Jarling Fang Perkone	Posted - 2007.03.10 00:52:00 - [17] Edited by: Jarling Fang on 10/03/2007 00:50:37 Originally by: Lord Guffy Edited by: Lord Guffy on 10/03/2007 00:22:57 Originally by: Jarling Fang Edited by: Jarling Fang on 09/03/2007 23:09:07 Edited by: Jarling Fang on 09/03/2007 22:59:19 Edited by: Jarling Fang on 09/03/2007 22:57:53 Originally by: Lord Guffy Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Originally by: Ty'derian Lord Guffy why do you dont POST witg your BOB Main Char ?? QFT Perhaps because I don't have one...? It's a rather short sighted to assume that any post that doesn't advocate total superiority for Ragoons and co must, by definition, be BoB. There are many in this world who aren't polarised in an 'either with us or against us' attitude. As for use of Bandwagoon, I entirely agree that it's not the first time and I possibly used a perjorative term here - I'm simply using the terminology that's most common on these forums. It's not so much that you're not advocating a "pro-coalition" viewpoint that makes you a prime BoB-alt suspect. Rather, its the subtle implication that has been repeated over and over in other threads by unknown "non-BoB alts" that coalition members could turn on each other at any moment, or how their victory could inherently create an unstable vaccum of power, with no counter viewpoint on the negative effects of a "BoB alliance" victory or what kind of "positive" outcomes might result from BoB's complete destruction. Token small praises for coalition members are also typically thrown in to add credibility to such threads. In other words, the unobjective nature of your post is what screams "BoB-alt propaganda" to everyone. Edit: That, and as someone already pointed out you are a 1 month old character that joined a corp. almost immediately after creation. If you truly are just an interested third party trying to stir up some stimulating debate, may I suggest a more balanced approach? Oh, and because nobody's said it yet - "#12 in a BoB thread!" I'm posting from non-alliance precisely to get away from being drawn in to this kind of smack. It's a shame that so many here are, like me, genuinely interested in looking at this from a longer term point of view, but you're concerned only with the short term. There are many threads here that you can contribute to in a non-constructive way. Perhaps you can seek them out, rather than trying to turn a thread that was turning into an interesting exploration of how the patterns of eve repeat into yet another part of the forum war. No smack, just calling it like I see it. Like I said, if you have a genuine interest in having an objective discussion about the war, I think a more balanced approach at presenting the issue will generate a more receptive response. Otherwise it just looks like a thinly veiled propaganda post.
Gabba Species 5618	Posted - 2007.03.10 01:18:00 - [18] The bandwagon is there because of what Dirtball said, there is a reason CCP put 18 NEW complexes inside BoB space. the reason is upto us plebs to figure out.
Lord Guffy Minmatar Lame Duck Logistics	Posted - 2007.03.10 01:24:00 - [19] Edited by: Lord Guffy on 10/03/2007 01:21:48 Originally by: Jarling Fang [No smack, just calling it like I see it. Like I said, if you have a genuine interest in having an objective discussion about the war, I think a more balanced approach at presenting the issue will generate a more receptive response. Otherwise it just looks like a thinly veiled propaganda post. Perhaps rather than trying to derail this thread you could post a constructive post as to why you think it WILL work? Your sole objection from your initial post was, as you say, that i'm churning out an old idea that your alliance partnerships won't last the test of time. I've played this game since launch, and I don't see any partnership that has lasted that test of time. That includes most of the partnerships that my own corps and alliances have been in. History DOES go in cycles, or at very least changes its course so often that winners become losers, who most probably become winners again... etc... Rather than trying to make this a thread about beating your chests and attempting to us it for short term political ends, I'd prefer it if you could make a reasoned argument as to what makes the Ragoon partnership sufficiently strong to last for many years. This isn't about what's happening now, it's about what will happen in a years time. Belive it or not, some people here are interested in looking at the patterns of what we've created in this digital world, and aren't permanently thinking about success on the forums.
Lord Guffy Minmatar Lame Duck Logistics	Posted - 2007.03.10 01:31:00 - [20] Incidentally Jaring, you belive my views to be invalid based on the age of this character, yet it appears your character is only one month older than mine. Should I discount your views entirely then? Or should I attmept to have a reasoned conversation with you?
Major Stormer Caldari Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.03.10 01:41:00 - [21] Originally by: Gabba The bandwagon is there because of what Dirtball said, there is a reason CCP put 18 NEW complexes inside BoB space. the reason is upto us plebs to figure out. Oddly enough, at the time of the new complexs, I had a new high level high sec complex placed in what was then my home system. it proved to be a great deal of money to myself and my corp. Ofc, we got our dev to place it there.... Originally by: Graalum Thats a caldari juggernaut torpedo fired by an ibis.
Liquid Vision Caldari Liquid Research	Posted - 2007.03.10 01:41:00 - [22] Originally by: Lord Guffy Incidentally Jaring, you belive my views to be invalid based on the age of this character, yet it appears your character is only one month older than mine. Should I discount your views entirely then? Or should I attmept to have a reasoned conversation with you? Hi, dbp! How have you been, lately? Miss all your dev friends? Please, write. Sincerely, Your adoring fans. -dbp Tired of 30 day plus research wait times? Want to produce your stuff faster? Try Liquid Research!!
patteSatan Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.03.10 01:57:00 - [23] Edited by: patteSatan on 10/03/2007 01:53:58 Politics sucks, makes me want to npc or mission*****. Both sides are bad, wish concord would wardecc them both, but on the other hand...... I get to pewpew with my corp. Oh, we pewpew'd both sides, btw. <br> ...you women are creepy, but amusing as hell.
Lord Guffy Minmatar Lame Duck Logistics	Posted - 2007.03.10 01:59:00 - [24] Originally by: Liquid Vision Originally by: Lord Guffy Incidentally Jaring, you belive my views to be invalid based on the age of this character, yet it appears your character is only one month older than mine. Should I discount your views entirely then? Or should I attmept to have a reasoned conversation with you? Hi, dbp! How have you been, lately? Miss all your dev friends? Please, write. Sincerely, Your adoring fans. -dbp Wow, I guess it really is impossible to have a sensible discussion any more on these forums. Every SINGLE thread seems to be dragged into a slagging match by certain people who want to raise their profile on both sides. THIS IS NOT A THREAD FOR DISCUSSION OF IMMEDIATE POLITITCS
Admiral Feelgood Even-Flow	Posted - 2007.03.10 02:07:00 - [25] Originally by: Lord Guffy Wow, I guess it really is impossible to have a sensible discussion any more on these forums. Every SINGLE thread seems to be dragged into a slagging match by certain people who want to raise their profile on both sides. THIS IS NOT A THREAD FOR DISCUSSION OF IMMEDIATE POLITITCS I don't know, this discussion isn't going to be very productive. RA and GS are joined at the hip, they have self interest and mutual respect/friendship to some degree. If you had gone along another line of questioning such as how long will Pandemic Legion or United Legion/Intrepid Crossing/KoS/IAC etc stay together then you might get more lively debate but a RA/GS split is really just a non-issue(for the foreseeable future).
Uuve Savisaalo Umbra Congregatio	Posted - 2007.03.10 02:26:00 - [26] I think that in their frevor many people on both sides have overlooked the main point and objective of this conflict. due to their well-entrenched positions and highly organised hold on territories, bob were able to steadily amass vast amounts of money both from their tennant alliances and complexes situated within the space they had claimed for themselves, which they had pretty much exclusive rights to farming. Combined with communism and high wealth level for individual players, the gains are easily converted into supercapital ships, which bob and their allies have been cranking out an alarming rate (vastly outpacing all other player entities combined) The coalition doesn't really have a future per se. It doesn't intend to rule the universe as a single entity. goons don't want to lord over space, nor does RA. And the groups that wouldn't mind lack the logistics, organisation and serious, real ability to turn that into reality the way bob & comapny can. And thats fine. The coalition is a mob with pitchforks with the following achievable goals: 1) disrupt the flow of tennant money/ability for bob to run complexes and safely resource by invading delve & fountain and spending large amounts of time there. When you're shooting, you're not resourcing and neither are your 'pets' who pay you for the privelege. 2) disrupt production of supercapitals. Threaten existing supercapitals. 3) simply take space by timing multiple, simultaneous incursions over and over again. bob and friends are numerous, but the numbers are most certainly on the side of the coalition. Debating what happens after the war ends - or how the war will end precisely is a little silly due to everybody sort of knowing that people will go back to their old, regional and traditional hostilities, which is fine. We want it that way. The whole bandwagon against bob is precisely to preserve our ability to merrily keep shooting eachother after this whole thing blows over. there seems to be a lot of - perhaps purposeful - misunderstanding as to the nature of the coalition that I see on these forums. please understand, the coalition are completely random, unrelated, unaffiliated and in many cases outright hostile to one another groups that have firmly set aside such differences in the face of the only power that had ever realistically stood a chance of conquering damn well everything, whilst ****ing with glee all the way.
Admiral Nova Strike Team Nova	Posted - 2007.03.10 07:36:00 - [27] I bet I wasn't the only person who had to open this thread to find out which side the bandwagon was this time. :o
Shiwan Khan Vengeance of the Fallen Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.10 08:21:00 - [28] Originally by: Lord Guffy Edited by: Lord Guffy on 09/03/2007 21:09:37 Please - no flames in this thread. This is a serious suggestion about the cyclical nature of Eve's politics, and not for smacking current alliances / corps I find the current political landscape in Eve fascinating, because I think the seeds have been planted for one of the most fertile years in Eve I've ever seen. I'm amazed by the constant claims that alliances are dead / other coallitions are uber / existances have been wiped out etc. The things that I'll be watching out for are: - How long Goons will hang on to their supposed 'high ground'. Just a few short months ago, Goons were the most loathed alliance in Eve due to their treatment of a certain real life incident. This seems to have been totally forgotten - quite rightly so, it was a dark chapter in our history. In our very recent past, BoB were also lauded as the most impressive alliance in Eve. Rightly or wrongly. Just goes to show how fickle we all are. - Can the Bandwaggon alliance genuinely share any kind of power? RA are, undoubtably an impressive alliance. However their play style and personality are immesurably different from Goons. How long can a show of unity last between such polarised attitudes to the game? I have to say, I think their current combination is deadly - a strong base of true PVPers, with the best meatshield you could hope for. Truly an awesome force. But what happens when peacetime comes, and their shared objective no longer exists? How will they share power? Will they still be able to have joint goals when they're so different in psychology? My personal prediction, for what little it matters, is this: - Bandwagoneers push Coallition out of their claimed space, and the victors enjoy several months of relative prosperity. However they'll also be caught up in a lot of tedious logistics. After a while they'll get bogged down with with the humdrum, but they'll continue to enjoy their space. - At about the same time, the former Coalition have recouped their losses and are starting to regain enthusism for the game, after having had it pounded out of them by a pretty demoralising loss. - During this period, the fanboi community get a little bored of bandwagoneers once the prospect of joining the 'victorious' side in an 'epic' war has faded, and slowly people shuffle back to where they were. - The *****s begin to show in what was only ever an opportunistic partnership between Ragoons and their assorted mercs / corps. Differences in political views begin to emerge, and strains appear in the relationship. - The resentment created by a number of alliances suddenly switching to Bandwagon Alliance festers amongst many players (look at what happened with Youwhat recently). Disgruntled players and those with a point to prove amass at the boders of Ragoon space. And yet another fantastic era in Eve begins..... Again, please no flaming. Yes my perspective is slightly anti Ragoon - I think they showed excellent tactics but little morality - but all I'm hoping for here are serious comments on how this could unfold longer term. How would you write the history of the coming year in Eve? Many sides not fully declared You, sir, are completely clueless ____________________________________________ AEKDB
Sir Bart Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.03.10 08:34:00 - [29] The thing that impresses me is how the bob alts use the same style of writing and same subtle suggestions. They must actually have a division of propaganda and a director of propaganda where they strategize this stuff. I wonder if they even have their chief of propaganda review their posts before they are sent to assure their quality. Problem is that after you've seen enough of these posts you can spot a bob alt after about the 2nd or 3rd sentence. Bob did a good job with their propaganda but finally they are in trouble. People recognize their tricks, annoyed at being fooled, annoyed with their methods, annoyed with their attitudes and have decided that Bob will be no more. Now desparate to change public opinion they have declared "Nobody who is not in the propaganda division is allowed to post on eve-o forums!" Too little too late. I think the best part of Bob falling will be the absence of their forum warfare. -Bart Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Ceratin ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.10 08:34:00 - [30] Edited by: Ceratin on 10/03/2007 08:34:45 There will be no stability problems before bob is dead, i personally own delve and bnc are my mining pets so u need not worry your pretty little bobbit head on this issue :) Then who knows.. i actually did used to enjoy shooting goonies, im pretty sure they liked shooting me aswell, although i have to say ive been rather impressed recently by their effort in all this so i guess we'll just have to see what happens with the standings afterwards. Point is that it doesnt really matter, Everyone expects this war to go on for a very very long time so thinking about this atm really is kinda pointless ------------ All hail! Leader of the pod brigade..

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