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Ariakus Trillbane Caldari Crimson Shadows DeStInY.	Posted - 2007.03.09 21:21:00 - [1] This has been in-game for quite a while now, but I still hate the camera drone. Prior to (Exodus?... I forget), the camera drone was very freeform. I could get right on top of my BS or Frigate and look at the model's details. It also provided a sense of scale. With the current camera restrictions I can't see anything. On my Armageddon for example, on the front or back I can't get any closer than around 100M, and on the side of the ship it's probably closer to several hundred meters. (Hello my huge battleship that's way the hell over there on the other side of my screen!) This camera doesn't provide any sense of scale unless you happen to be next to another ship. And even then, your own ship is too far away to really admire any detail that "might" be in the model. This is probably a minor gripe compared to the things that still need to be tweaked in this game -- but I hate the camera as it is now and would at least like an option to unlock it to it's former specs. --------------------- Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity
Chruker	Posted - 2007.03.09 21:44:00 - [2] There are camera drones? Anyway, the zoom restrictions on the view are deffinately nuts. And it is not like it is preventing people from getting the view too close. So I can't imagine what the reasoning for those tight restrictions could be. ----- CCP: Please make ship loot to drop in a can next to the wrecks. Edit: On the test server you can now salvage wrecks with loot. After a succesfull salvage the loot is left in a jetcan.
Boromeus	Posted - 2007.03.09 23:10:00 - [3] hold right and left mouse button and move mouse forward or backword, camera drone has no restrictions at all Get familiar with the functions of the eve client before ranting about them
Chruker	Posted - 2007.03.09 23:14:00 - [4] Originally by: Boromeus hold right and left mouse button and move mouse forward or backword, camera drone has no restrictions at all Get familiar with the functions of the eve client before ranting about them That has the same zoom restrictions. ----- CCP: Please make ship loot to drop in a can next to the wrecks. Edit: On the test server you can now salvage wrecks with loot. After a succesfull salvage the loot is left in a jetcan.
Sandra Tseng Silentia Mortalis	Posted - 2007.03.10 00:49:00 - [5] Edited by: Sandra Tseng on 10/03/2007 00:45:35 Yes this issue has been buggin me too for quite some time now... Funny how your shuttle feels as big as your capitalship, aint it? It is actyallt starting to P*ss me off! Let the camera drones free!!!
Midnight Fang	Posted - 2007.03.10 02:28:00 - [6] and have some sort of camera memory as well. i hate having it zoomed in after every gate or undocking. everyone has different screen sizes, resolutions, and quantities for that matter, let us determine our own defaults.
Icome4u IronPig Sev3rance	Posted - 2007.03.10 03:50:00 - [7] /Signed!!!!! Have it the way it use to be... can't even zoom on my fighters nearly as much as i could before :(
Black Torment Caldari Black Omega Security	Posted - 2007.03.10 17:25:00 - [8] Edited by: Black Torment on 10/03/2007 17:21:17 Originally by: Chruker Originally by: Boromeus hold right and left mouse button and move mouse forward or backword, camera drone has no restrictions at all Get familiar with the functions of the eve client before ranting about them That has the same zoom restrictions. Not when you do it properly. Hold right click and move the mouse, so you look around. Then hold the other mouse button down and you can zoom right in on things. Its when the camera isn't centred on the ship that you can do it.
TomParad0x Caldari adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.10 21:31:00 - [9] Originally by: Chruker There are camera drones? Aye, check some of the storyline stories - Your view is from a camera drone, if i remember correctly its in the same story of how pods came to be. Anyway: /Signed - Would be cool to have that back again. --Sig-- Anything posted by me is my opinion and not that of my corp or alliance.
Venix An Eye For An Eye Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.03.11 09:18:00 - [10] Signed, its a total pita to check out frigs when your in a BS due to being stuck in BS size. Ni4Ni

B0rn2KiLL DEATHFUNK	Posted - 2007.03.11 18:50:00 - [11] Originally by: Boromeus hold right and left mouse button and move mouse forward or backword, camera drone has no restrictions at all Get familiar with the functions of the eve client before ranting about them Restricted. i want to be able to see my t2 ogres again --- new sig, Hijack it and ill eat u. *Imaran hands B0rn2KiLL a fork - Come get some!11
Grainsalt Free Corp	Posted - 2007.03.12 09:29:00 - [12] Originally by: Black Torment Edited by: Black Torment on 10/03/2007 17:21:17 Originally by: Chruker Originally by: Boromeus hold right and left mouse button and move mouse forward or backword, camera drone has no restrictions at all Get familiar with the functions of the eve client before ranting about them That has the same zoom restrictions. Not when you do it properly. Hold right click and move the mouse, so you look around. Then hold the other mouse button down and you can zoom right in on things. Its when the camera isn't centred on the ship that you can do it. Yes it does, e.g. even when doing that you cant zoom in full way to drones or fighters. There is a full lock to stop them being bigger than 1/6th the size of the screen. ---
Alex Peterson Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.03.16 11:32:00 - [13] yeaaaah i remember a time when camera zooming was a fun way to waste time whilst mining
Mastin Dragonfly Amarr Navy Runners	Posted - 2007.03.16 12:01:00 - [14] Originally by: Black Torment Edited by: Black Torment on 10/03/2007 17:21:17 Originally by: Chruker Originally by: Boromeus hold right and left mouse button and move mouse forward or backword, camera drone has no restrictions at all Get familiar with the functions of the eve client before ranting about them That has the same zoom restrictions. Not when you do it properly. Hold right click and move the mouse, so you look around. Then hold the other mouse button down and you can zoom right in on things. Its when the camera isn't centred on the ship that you can do it. When I do that half the time to space background also zooms in leaving me with a totally messed up image.
Chade Malloy Anarchy Unleashed	Posted - 2007.04.08 00:14:00 - [15] It is extremely annoying if you are sitting in a battleship and do "look at" drones and frigates, cine the camera uses the same restrictions as if looking at a ship your size. -> you can see nothing. i want to be able to make look at drones and see all their details, please fix that :( Originally by: Oveur Jesus Christ. The Freighter ate the Stargate god and the Dreadnought didn't!
ErazorHead FrenchWing's War Academy	Posted - 2007.04.08 12:08:00 - [16] /signed Camera is very broken in Eve... and remove this position reset after every Jump ffs
NightF0x Gallente principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.04.08 15:01:00 - [17] I remember when I started that I could see if a miner was equipping any rails as defensive support. Now you are lucky to even see a module, let alone see what type it is. Bring back the old camera.
lles Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.08 17:00:00 - [18] It just makes no sense changing it to the way it is now. I always loved looking at my fighters in space and now it doesnt even matter how they look like cause I cant look at them anymore...
Miriyana Gallente Jita International Traders and Antagonists	Posted - 2007.04.10 19:05:00 - [19] Yes. this is annoying problem - - - - - - Change just leads to more problems
Nyana	Posted - 2007.04.11 09:43:00 - [20] I doubt it matters, but: Agreed.

Miriyana Gallente Jita International Traders and Antagonists	Posted - 2007.04.12 18:45:00 - [21] Bump. Important thread!! I want to be able to MOVE the cam close to my myrm please - NOT ZOOM!! currently it looks smaller than a incursus if you cant compare it to anything - - - - - - Change just leads to more problems
Thrass Caldari PROGENITOR CORPORATION	Posted - 2007.04.12 18:55:00 - [22] i am new to the game...and that is one of the first things i noticed...please let me zoom in and appreciate my ship to the fullest!
Chade Malloy Anarchy Unleashed	Posted - 2007.04.15 22:58:00 - [23] Hmm...maybe a Dev would be so kind and drop us a line here? This has been on topic for quite some time now, and nothing changed over several small patches. Is salvation to come only in the big gfx upgrade? Blood for the masses! Originally by: Oveur Jesus Christ. The Freighter ate the Stargate god and the Dreadnought didn't!
Icome4u IronPig Sev3rance	Posted - 2007.04.16 02:16:00 - [24] I have talked to a DEV and he told me that it is a bug and not men to be that way. It's already/getting fix for the 2008 GFX upgrade... just like the Chimera.... sigh
Zee Zen	Posted - 2007.04.16 12:07:00 - [25] For some real fun, turn on advanced camera options put out some drones and set primary to your drone and secondary to yourself. Get a REAL good look at your ship. And then throw up.
Riebart Norith Gallente Interstellar Business Federation Tartarus Coalition	Posted - 2007.04.25 05:08:00 - [26] I used to be able to look at my Ogre IIs. They were so adorable! They reminded me of Descent 2 drones. Anyway, I miss that. Bring it back please! I want to get better looks at my precious babies.......Sorry, I think I'm having a love affair with my drones. /me is a drone carrier pilot......forgive me. Rieb ---------- [ 2006.10.09 03:03:14 ] (combat) The Forum Whiner strikes My Patience perfectly, wrecking for A Spite Filled Post of Doom.
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.04.27 11:49:00 - [27] Originally by: Chruker Originally by: Boromeus hold right and left mouse button and move mouse forward or backword, camera drone has no restrictions at all Get familiar with the functions of the eve client before ranting about them That has the same zoom restrictions. NO! it doesn't! argh! yyour thinking if you hold left and then right try holding right and then left smack I can zoom in so that you can only is a t2 cannon on my ship do I need to submit a screenshot or something? slap all of you also after changing the angle and then super zooming in you can double click to hold the left button to then zoom around your new angle you can also open your cargo bay by double clicking anywhere in the station, that doesn't mean ccp is going to let you know heh
Icome4u IronPig Sev3rance	Posted - 2007.04.28 01:39:00 - [28] Can't zoom as much as before on drones or small ships (when using a bigger ship)... Even super-zooming on my fighters or a frigate doesn't help...they still look incredibly small from my ship point's of view -_- Put it back to the way it was CCP please :(
Phish1 Liberty Forces Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.28 11:11:00 - [29] pffft, repeatedly people have explained HOW to zoom in (you can you know) and you just ignore them, well shame on you!
Serial Driller	Posted - 2007.04.28 12:15:00 - [30] I completely agree with the OP. I loved the ability to zoom in close to my ships. Once CCP added the ability to zoom out to see the entire system, the old camera controls went away. Now, you get a fixed view of your ship or the system. I realize you can zoom out from your ship, but you can't zoom in as before. What's worse, if you undock in a large ship (BC, BS, etc.), then select a player in a small ship (frigate, shuttle, etc.), you are stuck at BS scale (meaning you can't even tell if the player has turrets equipped). Also, if you zoom out, but go through a stargate, then the camera resets. The old camera remembered your set zoom level.. ..but only until you docked. The old system wasn't perfect. Was a bit odd undocking and seeing "inside" your ship, but this could've been fixed if the old system would've remembered the zoom level in the same way that each ship can remember if you change the layout of the active modules (while in space). Then I would've set the ideal zoom level for each ship as I saw fit. However, I'd gladly trade back to the old system given the lack of variance in the new one. I miss zooming in on any ship (regardless of it being bigger or smaller than my own) and really inspecting the details.

Riebart Norith Gallente Interstellar Business Federation Tartarus Coalition	Posted - 2007.04.30 03:11:00 - [31] Agreed. This is dumb. If I'm in a Domi chasing an Enyo I wanna be able to see what it is shooting at. I can't by using "Look at" anymore and have to waste time manually zomming in with the camera. There is no need to have implemented these zoom restrictions since they do not affect the server at all. Doesn't make sense to me. ---------- [ 2006.10.09 03:03:14 ] (combat) The Forum Whiner strikes My Patience perfectly, wrecking for A Spite Filled Post of Doom.
Icome4u IronPig Sev3rance	Posted - 2007.04.30 03:22:00 - [32] Edited by: Icome4u on 30/04/2007 03:18:21 Originally by: Phish1 pffft, repeatedly people have explained HOW to zoom in (you can you know) and you just ignore them, well shame on you! Ok noob, here it goes AGAIN JUST FOR YOU!!!!! You CANNOT zoom as much as before even while force zooming. You will notice that if you ever use a ship bigger than a cruiser. So train up and grab a tier 3 BS and you will see how PUNY a drone or frigate is. Worst i have seen is looking at my fighters from my carrier or my drones from my Dread. So, NO you CANNOT zoom as much as before.
Neuromandis Novastorm Inc Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.04.30 10:32:00 - [33] Indeed, "abusing" graphics artists to make all those nice turret hardpoints on ships and then making them practically invisible outside the station is not very nice. Also, it would only be fair to make "line of sight" give you some info, i.e. I should be rewarded for knowing how a blaster looks like compared to a railgun if I can pass relative intel (much like you automatically know when a sensorbooster or shield hardeners are active). I mean an unrestricted camera would tell you that what you're really facing is an autocannon tempest instead of an artillery one and the like. So yes, zooming in is a workaround at some cases, but it is beside the point. There should not be restrictions on the camera distance, or at least the restrictions should not be that tight.
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.04.30 17:44:00 - [34] Edited by: MotherMoon on 30/04/2007 17:45:09 Originally by: Icome4u Edited by: Icome4u on 30/04/2007 03:18:21 Originally by: Phish1 pffft, repeatedly people have explained HOW to zoom in (you can you know) and you just ignore them, well shame on you! Ok noob, here it goes AGAIN JUST FOR YOU!!!!! You CANNOT zoom as much as before even while force zooming. You will notice that if you ever use a ship bigger than a cruiser. So train up and grab a tier 3 BS and you will see how PUNY a drone or frigate is. Worst i have seen is looking at my fighters from my carrier or my drones from my Dread. So, NO you CANNOT zoom as much as before. yes your right as in YOU but other people here are saying you can't zoom in past anything. I saw someone say "I want to see my cannons again" and that's just it, you CAN see your own ship very very close. as far as bigger ships go well I think the limits are on due to the huge scaling bug that they are ignoring untill they throw it away with the upcoming graphics update. and I know it's on a frig. http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/mothermoon/2007.04.30.15.03.36.jpg and are you crazy you can see the weapons on a tempest lol look at doesn't kill your overview and as you know eve could be played without the graphics, but then I wouldn't play :P say no to text based eve
Serial Driller	Posted - 2007.05.01 19:58:00 - [35] MotherMoon, I "KNOW" what you're saying. You're essentially performing an inverted zoom (i.e., use the right mouse button to look behind your ship, then zoom out, thus bringing your ship into view). Yes, you "can" technically get a very close look on your ship, but this is clumsy is just a work around to the problem and it doesn't work in every scenario (such as viewing a ship/drone that is much smaller than your ship). The method you're using is a trick to do something that we were able to do normally. I don't believe the developers planned that to be the alternative. The second you let go of your mouse buttons, the view reverts. The old way was much simpler. The only thing I thought that needed to change was for the camera to remember your zoom preferences. It would remember after each jump, just not when you docked. The old way had varying levels of zooming in (without using the left+right mouse button manual tactic). Now, it's just the view of your ship and the entire solar system. If anything, they could've added a separate button to view the system and just left the old camera as is (albeit, maybe add the retain custom zoom settings). Point blank, the existing mechanism is disappointing.
Jai Gar Agents of the Veiled Dragon	Posted - 2007.05.02 12:08:00 - [36] /signed! I've never understoond the reasoning for this restriction... It's a 3D game, yet you cannot zoom into 100% of anything in the game (without a really ignorant contorting of the mouse and buttons). If you can "sidestep" the locks with the combo mousemove/dualbutton click, why have the lock at all? Ignorant! I used to be able to zoom into look at my drones and such... Really cool stuff... made the interface 100% more user friendly and made EVE just that much more of a super graphics game... Also... Why the F... can't I look UP in an friggin station!!!??? LOL What's up there that CCP is hiding from us...?
Serial Driller	Posted - 2007.05.02 12:41:00 - [37] Jai Gar, you can look up, but it involves more "ignorant contorting of the mouse and buttons." P.S. I'm not sure you really want to look up. Last time I checked, there was a sword of Damocles hanging over my ship.
Serial Driller	Posted - 2007.05.02 14:35:00 - [38] Edited by: Serial Driller on 02/05/2007 14:34:23 Mothermoon (and the others that posted tips on using the alternate zoom method), I need to offer you an apology. I shouldn't have posted from a definitive stance until I went in-game and verified what I was posting. After recently trying the right-click method, I've come to realize that it is (in fact) possible to zoom in with incredible detail. In fact, I think some of the angles you're able to achieve with this method afford views you couldn't attain before using the old system. MotherMoon, please read my previously posted line ("I "KNOW" what you're saying.") as, "I'm ignorant if I don't verify my contradictory arguments before replying to your comments." I still believe the old system should return (in addition to the existing right-click method). As I stated, the right-click method only lasts as long as your mouse buttons are pressed. The old method maintained zoom and angle views, but still afforded mouse control. In short, keep the existing right-click ability, but bring back the old static camera zoom ability.
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.03 05:00:00 - [39] Edited by: MotherMoon on 03/05/2007 04:59:56 Originally by: Serial Driller Edited by: Serial Driller on 02/05/2007 14:34:23 Mothermoon (and the others that posted tips on using the alternate zoom method), I need to offer you an apology. I shouldn't have posted from a definitive stance until I went in-game and verified what I was posting. After recently trying the right-click method, I've come to realize that it is (in fact) possible to zoom in with incredible detail. In fact, I think some of the angles you're able to achieve with this method afford views you couldn't attain before using the old system. MotherMoon, please read my previously posted line ("I "KNOW" what you're saying.") as, "I'm ignorant if I don't verify my contradictory arguments before replying to your comments." I still believe the old system should return (in addition to the existing right-click method). As I stated, the right-click method only lasts as long as your mouse buttons are pressed. The old method maintained zoom and angle views, but still afforded mouse control. In short, keep the existing right-click ability, but bring back the old static camera zoom ability. thank you for actually trying it out :) I'm favorite part of this camera is the way it looks when you follow ships in space it adds a fun angle to it Now that we have this camera control down we can realy talk about what needs to be fixed. -Let normal zoom go closer normally, check -Don't stick huge ships in their set camera zoom so you can see the drones your using, check -alternative to look at ship? -don't reset my zoom :( it's a pain when your in solar system view as well -make it possible to hold the tactical zoom without holding the buttons the whole time? -I'm sure I'm missing a few. however now I must bring up why they might not be makign this zoom a public as they could. it's broken. I wish I had shots of the brokeness I actually completely broke eve once where I could with the normal zoom go very very close to my shi and the planet in the background was 20 times bigger than is was before. try this go next to a station r I haven't tried this yet but another ship of the same size now zoom out normally a good deal now use the tactical zoom looks kinda cool doesn't it? like the scale finally looks big? ok now go back and zoom out a HUGE amount now zoom in using the tatical zoom you will tiny, the station or other ships will scale faster than you will well that's my final word I'll keep reading to follow or comment if someone has a new point.
Serial Driller	Posted - 2007.05.03 16:27:00 - [40] Edited by: Serial Driller on 03/05/2007 16:29:57 To anyone that is still reading and doesn't know what is being said regarding right-mouse zooming, I'll try to explain camera controls a bit more. Think of the camera as a drone hovering outside your ship and your view is that of the drone. Using the mouse and mouse buttons, the following can be done: Left Mouse Button - By holding down the left mouse button and moving the mouse, you can view your ship from different angles. The camera stays at the same distance from the ship, but you can view the ship from the side, bottom, aft, etc. in a complete 360 degree perspective. If you let go of the left mouse button, the view remains at that angle. All players already know this. Right Mouse Button - By holding down the right mouse and moving the mouse, the camera will stay in the same location and rotate on its own axis allowing you to see space around your ship. For example, a quick view to the side or behind you. While you could use the left mouse button to see in that area, the right button is better because once you left go of it, the view reverts back to its original angle. Think of the right mouse button as a quick and temporary way to check out a direction, but then quickly go back to your preferred view. However, there's an additional method with the right button (see below). Left+Right Mouse Buttons - Holding down both moves the camera closer and farther from your ship. Your view doesn't zoom. The camera simply moves forward or back, which allows you to see your ship up close or far away. Right Mouse Button Zoom Ability - Hold down the right mouse button, then move the mouse just a little until you see the angle change a bit. While continuing to hold the right button, press and hold the left button. Now moving the mouse forward and back will cause the camera to zoom. The camera remains the same distance from the ship, but your view is now magnified. The ability to zoom "in" only happens while in space. While docked, you zoom "out." This method is the only one that actually changes magnification which is a cool perspective. Note: MotherMoon, this is where I messed up. I only tried this while docked, which is why I didn't understand what you were saying till I tried it in space. My bad. ... Before the ability to view the entire solar system, the camera could be moved (using the regular left+right buttons method) both closer and farther from your ship. After the system view was added, you can only move the camera away from the ship. Essentially, no more moving in real close to your ship to see small details. Additionally, the default distance that the camera would be away from your ship when undocked was also changed. Before, you might undock in a hauler and be looking inside your ship until you adjusted the view. An unfortunate additional change was the camera's inability to remember the changes you make after jumping into another system. If you pulled the view back so that your screen wasn't filled with the blinding engine exhausts from your ship, you'd be right back to a bumper view after jumping (which bites, btw). At least the old way remembered the view after jumping. If any change occurred, I wish the ship would "always" remember your preferred view. If I can move the active displayed modules around from slot to slot (while in space), and the game remembers that, then why can't it remember that specific ships set view. I miss the old ability to move the camera close to my ship (left+right button) and would like to see it re-instated. Now that I know how to zoom in, I like that too and don't want to see that go away. Zooming in (instead of just moving the camera) adds a different feel to the view on the screen and creates the possibility for some really wild screen shot concepts. As said, if I can only get one change, then having the camera remember where I placed it (docked/undocked/jumping/etc.) is at the top of my list.

Effei Gloom Minmatar eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.07 23:09:00 - [41] Edited by: Effei Gloom on 07/05/2007 23:07:49 yes, something is wrong here 1. you cant zoom as far in as you could before, CCP made it that way to stop us from looking at "old" textures and designs till the new graphic engines comes. 2. a shuttle gives you a larger ship on max zoom than a carrier, actually it gives you the feeling the shuttle is bigger, funny 3. small ships cant even be looked at to see the type of weapon system 4. drones and fighters only give you a "+" even on max zoom in 5. why do bigger ships have less zoom, smaller ships got? it should be exactly other way round. To support the feeling of flying a big or small ship. - next minnie Outpost bpc me:5 available in 25 days -
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.09 03:35:00 - [42] and for more fun everyone once your in zoom mode (holding right nd then moving and then hlding left zoom thing) double click the left button while still holding the right button now you can while holding both buttons rotate around your new angle! do this for a while and eve breaks lol but that's not the point
Strill	Posted - 2007.05.09 05:10:00 - [43] One of the things I noticed is that the range at which you can zoom in on other ships is dependant on the size of your own ship. So if you're flying a battleship, you won't be able to zoom in as far as you'ld be able to in a shuttle.


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