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Qjuu I
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Posted - 2007.03.11 05:24:00 -
[1]
Hi!
Maybe its a stupid question, but what's _the_ advantage of amarr ships?
BTW: I like amarr ship design and I like laser weapons - but:
Amarr ships can cause only EM and thermal damage per design. Caldari ships for instance can cause _any_ damage type just by selecting an appropriate missle type.
The result:
(1) If someone simply see my amarr ship, he only has to fit EM and thermal hardeners and that's it.
(2) Contrary, a Caldari ship pilot can change the damage type of his weapons spontaneous - at best by "trial and error". So it's not easy to fit against such ship (e.g. hardeners).
I'm very interested in your opinions! Qjuu
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Jei'son Bladesmith
Caldari Bladesmith Mining and Development Consortium
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Posted - 2007.03.11 05:44:00 -
[2]
Amarr ships are the best armor tankers, having thick armor and the most low slots. They tend to have more capacitor energy than other ships, although this is offset by the higher energy use of lasers. Though if you mount projectile weapons instead (not always a good idea, but if the only weapon bonus you get is say reduced capacitor use, you lose nothing) then you can devote your entire cap to a very solid armor tank.
That also negates the "oh he's got lasers i just need to tank EM/thermal" problem
As for lasers themselves, lasers have naturally high tracking, and although you cant vary the damage types, they have the unique ability to hot-swap crystals in the middle of a firefight to optimize damage vs range, whereas with other weapon types you often cant afford the time.
If your ship does give significant damage bonuses, coupled with a good selection of damage mods (since amarr ships have a large number of low slots they're more able to mount damage mods without sacrificing large portions of their tank) the sheer amount of raw damage you can do can compensate for the limited damage types.
☼☼☼ Confidence keeps you alive...cockiness will get you podded ☼☼☼ |
Zinn Azna
Amarr Khanid Provincial Vanguard Khanid Provincial Authority
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Posted - 2007.03.11 05:53:00 -
[3]
One advantage to Amarr ships is unlimited ammo which can be quite helpful on long missions or ratting. Another one is we do not have to go through reload cycles we can just keep firing away.
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Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.03.11 06:13:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Zinn Azna One advantage to Amarr ships is unlimited ammo...
Only when you use T1 ammo. In the T2 realm Amarr ammo costs more than any other race. Add in that an Amarr boat can eat cap boosters like candy due to their much higher cap use and they get even more expensive to run.
But yeah, if you find yourself in 0.0 wanting to pop a secure can use T1 crystals and it costs you nothing to shoot for a few hours .
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Ranita Drell
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Posted - 2007.03.11 06:50:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Ranita Drell on 11/03/2007 06:47:11
Quote: If someone simply see my amarr ship, he only has to fit EM and thermal hardeners and that's it.
Well, it's not as if you can just decide to spontaneously swap in EM/thermal hardeners for the kinetic/explosive ones you currently have equipped. People generally go for well-rounded resists if they expect to PvP, or fit rat specific hardeners if they're doing PvE. Unless someone is hunting you specifically and knows that you're flying an Amarr ship, they won't have this advantage on you.
However, in PvP, I am pretty sure there are considerably more armor tankers than there are shield tankers, and lasers are weak against armor. I suppose that put the Amarr ships at a bit of a disadvantage.
I think the general consensus is that Amarr ships are generally underpowered, for a variety of reasons. Not that all of their ships are terrible (every race has a few awesome ships for some purpose or other), but just that in general, Amarr ships are a bit wanting. I think this is something the devs are looking to address, though.
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Victor Valka
Caldari Archon Industries
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Posted - 2007.03.11 08:14:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ranita Drell However, in PvP, I am pretty sure there are considerably more armor tankers than there are shield tankers, and lasers are weak against armor. I suppose that put the Amarr ships at a bit of a disadvantage.
That is actually a very wrong assumption. Popular opinion, if you will.
In the realm both T1 and T2 ships EM is generally the least tanked damage because, on armor, all races, except Minmatar, have 60% resistance as base. Minmatar have 70% base. Because of that, there is relatively little initiative to waste a slot for an EM hardener.
Due to above, out in the wild you won't see many armor tanking ships with EM hardeners.
Originally by: Diana Marc Notice that BoB is agreeing with RA's concern. That's like Elrond and Sauron agreeing to reduce carbon emissions.
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.11 08:55:00 -
[7]
You could fool people by putting on like projectiles on your amarr ship tho Bonuses schmonuses
Help me help you. |
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.03.11 11:09:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Victor Valka
Originally by: Ranita Drell However, in PvP, I am pretty sure there are considerably more armor tankers than there are shield tankers, and lasers are weak against armor. I suppose that put the Amarr ships at a bit of a disadvantage.
That is actually a very wrong assumption. Popular opinion, if you will.
In the realm both T1 and T2 ships EM is generally the least tanked damage because, on armor, all races, except Minmatar, have 60% resistance as base. Minmatar have 70% base. Because of that, there is relatively little initiative to waste a slot for an EM hardener.
Due to above, out in the wild you won't see many armor tanking ships with EM hardeners.
Except that all of the cool kids use Energized Adaptive Nano Membranes and Damage Controls these days.
Which means that 80% EM armour resists aren't at all uncommon
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.03.11 11:09:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Chribba You could fool people by putting on like projectiles on your amarr ship tho Bonuses schmonuses
Or mining lasers
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
Cygnus Zhada
Amarr Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.03.11 11:29:00 -
[10]
I have been wondering about these same questions myself, apart from the "HAHALOLZ UR F-ED" idiot answers I got that Amarr is very focussed and as long as you just keep focussing on 3 things, damage, cap and tanking you'll be doing just fine.
Not sure if it's true but it does sound logical and is in fact inline with Amarr thinking :)
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Sonya Rayner
Amarr Unicorn Enterprise
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Posted - 2007.03.12 19:42:00 -
[11]
Aren't you forgetting something? Erm... Like _drones_ ? They are quite nice addition to your damage output. And like with missiles, you are free to choose any damage type you want
In general: I'm flying amarrian ships and i'm quite satisfied with them as they are now.
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Bleys Vontagen
Gallente Phoenix Logistics Industries
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Posted - 2007.03.12 23:32:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Qjuu I Hi!
Maybe its a stupid question, but what's _the_ advantage of amarr ships?
BTW: I like amarr ship design and I like laser weapons - but:
Amarr ships can cause only EM and thermal damage per design. Caldari ships for instance can cause _any_ damage type just by selecting an appropriate missle type.
The result:
(1) If someone simply see my amarr ship, he only has to fit EM and thermal hardeners and that's it.
(2) Contrary, a Caldari ship pilot can change the damage type of his weapons spontaneous - at best by "trial and error". So it's not easy to fit against such ship (e.g. hardeners).
I'm very interested in your opinions! Qjuu
1. The Amarr ships fit wicked armor tanks and have big caps.
2. You're not as limited as you believe. You CAN fit missiles to some Amarr ships and pick explosive and kenetic damage types. And while you're not really built for a full-conversion, you can also fit a couple of Minmatar-type weapons to your ship and fire explosive & kenetic damage types, totally messing with the Amarr-specific tank.
3. People who use hybrid weapons tend to have the same damage type issue, only it's kenetic and thermal. And Caldari do have ships that are blaster/rail oriented, though still more flexible than the Amarr in this issue, like the Moa and the Rokh.
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Esurnir
Amarr Bears Inc FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.13 04:45:00 -
[13]
One problem in pvp is the omni tank. But if the opponent is not omni tanked he will most probably not tank the em dammage. "He fly ammarr so I fit em" in fact nearly never work. You would need to be in a system with a station, having the hardener ready seeking it through your asset, before refit.
And the case of switching hardener "in the field" is near to impossible, even with a carrier nearbye you have to have forseen the need of an em hardener.
Wich make EM damage sometime the best damage type arround. We pawned 3 carrier one weeks ago, all three were em weak while armor tanking (including the archon). The first ship after the torps (mjolnir of course) raven was an abbadon or another ammarr bs.
Most of people if they specifically harden there ship will harden against kinetic/thermic.
In case of doubt when you dont have the choice to cycle your torp/cruise (target too small), caldari will use kinetic missile due to their bonuses, so it's not entirely unpredictable.
Basicly the ammarr perhaps have the best raw dps arround (no reload, well 1/1000 shot for t2 crystal). They got cap problems, but if you shut down your laser you get a hell of a tank.(a couple days ago in c6c, ratel gatecamp, scrammed against 1 phoon 1 manticore 1 ceptor (raptor) against my lone ill fitted (half the mods where from my ratting setup), my screen shaked from the acs and cruise pounding on my ship, I was 12 k away, webbed, no ab, running toward a stargate, that was my last hope. And as hopeless as my situation was, I survived ! and with more than 50% hp if I'm correct. That's only a bc, imagine a bs).
Ammarr do not excell anywhere, I grant it, we dont have a "flagship" that stands out of the lot except in a beauty contest.
But personnally I fly a ship that I can appreciate the sight, I barely survive flying tackling rifter. My personal toolbox doesnt include duct tape. My harbinger ships are called Pride because I cherish them, they are beautifull and extraordinary tool of destruction, they inflict (damage type or not) sheer damage. They tank like crazy, but got difficulty to do both at the same time.
You wont get extrreeeeeeemmmmmmeeee range sniping setup with amarr ship, you'll get long range.
And good new, you got the longest range short range weapon.
So "They can't master anything" but they are reliable.
Past 10km other race suck at short range. If you can web your opponent he is helpless to your heavy guns.
It even apply to their fighter.
And if you play with your speaker on, is their anyone in this room that can honnestly say that there is something in this game that is more impressive and terrifying than the sound of a mega/tachyon broadside . (Ok I forgot that there is the allmighty 425mm bb gun ).
Well you may understand that I don't seek a master of his class ship. I try to find the best way to use mine, and I enjoy flying amarr (with laser, artillery are for heretics). ----
Quote: Thou shall pew pew.
Book of Revelation 12, 51 |
Cygnus Zhada
Amarr Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.03.13 05:06:00 -
[14]
Thank you for reassuring me :)
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Tunajuice
Convergent Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.03.13 05:18:00 -
[15]
You are looking at the downside.. amarr suck vs armor tanks.
Well they are also very good vs shield tanks.
In a 3v3 battle or whatever.. you will help a lot more on the raven than the other people.. but be slightly worse at killing the omni tanked domi or whatever.
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Esurnir
Amarr Bears Inc FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.13 16:18:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Tunajuice You are looking at the downside.. amarr suck vs armor tanks.
Well they are also very good vs shield tanks.
In a 3v3 battle or whatever.. you will help a lot more on the raven than the other people.. but be slightly worse at killing the omni tanked domi or whatever.
It's only valid against omni tank as I said, the amarr ship is nearly guaranteed to have good damage when the guy decide to harden his weakness, making his strong point fade away ----
Quote: Thou shall pew pew.
Book of Revelation 12, 51 |
Qjuu I
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Posted - 2007.03.19 01:18:00 -
[17]
Thanks a lot for your replies!
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Sonya Rayner
Amarr Unicorn Enterprise
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Posted - 2007.03.19 11:17:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Esurnir <...> Ammarr do not excell anywhere, I grant it, we dont have a "flagship" that stands out of the lot except in a beauty contest. <...>
You're a bit wrong here. We do have some ships that really stand out from the crowd. Pilgrim and Curse. And, uh, they're beautiful aswell :)
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couldn't resist... sorry... |
Eleana Tomelac
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.19 14:42:00 -
[19]
Most important of all, The amarr ships looks nice! (I like much the gallente too, seems like those two races care about ship design).
Also, everyone told me that the T2 amarr ships are really cool, and I heard many times that they have the best frigate around, the punisher (that looks cool too). -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Flying Vexor and Ishkur, Myrmidon was too slow, got ganked by 3 BC and a Megathron... |
Simon Jax
Gallente Freedom Guard Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.19 15:18:00 -
[20]
The Pilgrim and Curse are damn sexy ships, to be sure. I'm often tempted to train Amarr Cruiser from IV to V instead of Gallente Cruiser just to use 'em due to my drone skills. But I digress.
The way things are now, Amarr ships do just fine in PvP. The fact of the matter is that even with Omni Tanks EM armor damage resistances aren't always the highest anymore. Most ships need to fill the Explosive resistance hole, then add on a DCU and an EANM or two. But even then EM resists aren't exceptionally higher than the rest of 'em. Plus, the pure damage output of Lasers can easily exceed the 10% or so additional resistance.
--Wherever you go, there you are.
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