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Spoon Thumb Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.03.12 13:19:00 - [1] This thread i clearly didn't make my self clear and got hammered as a result. So here goes fresh attempt to articulate my views and hopefully get some sort of meaningful debate going -- There seems to be a trend in many MMO's toward increasing emphasis on massive multiplayer environments being a vehicle for social interaction and mingling with friends and/or people from "internet land" The trend is such that some MMO's have dropped the Roleplay and Game aspects in a number of cases and simply focused on letting people have a place to just chill out online As such I must question what CCP's motivation for creating the "Walking In Stations" features. I get the distinct impression that CCP looked at other MMO's with more subscribers / players and thought "Damn we need to catch up!" It is true that many players I know spend a high proportion of their time simply immersing themselves in the social parts of Eve. Ildeing in station, taking to friends, debating the latest changes to Eve, latest events in 0.0 or the Even universe or just catching up and chatting about real life stuff What I want to ask is "Do people believe that Eve should be kept strictly as a game?" Should "WIS" be an extension of that game that facilitates greater possibilities through much more intimate, more fully realised interaction between characters, or do people believe that the result will be a hybrid, where people can play, or can just chill in station bar? My own opinion is that WIS and other similar features that follow should be made keeping in mind Eve is a game. Bloodline: Khaldari Research Services BPO Shop KPA Recruiting!
Unknown Subject Sound of Silence	Posted - 2007.03.12 13:22:00 - [2] first to go
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.12 13:25:00 - [3] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 12/03/2007 13:21:30 WIS will be worthless unless it comes with new content - new things to do that can actually advance the game. After all, being able to walk up to your ship and climbing into it may look impressive, but how many people will really want to do it more than three or four times? And no, emotes and /dance commands do not count as new content. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Karunel Princeps Corp YouWhat	Posted - 2007.03.12 13:26:00 - [4] So, you want e-**? Just say it, damnit! Originally by:** elbenito The problem with large fleet engagements is that the hamsters stop to watch.
Caol The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.12 13:29:00 - [5] Originally by: Rodj Blake And no, emotes and /dance commands do not count as new content. I couldn't think of anything further from what Eve is, but then freedom of choice I suppose. *Wearing the sansha pimp coat earns you +2 respect with peers and +1000 isk per barter transaction. The wearer is immune to smack.
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.03.12 13:29:00 - [6] As a person who actually has played EVE, you should be able to tell for yourself that the developers definitely do not see this game as a conventional MMO. I highly doubt WIS is going to suddenly turn EVE into Second Life. It's not like suddenly you'll have to jump out of your ship and walk all the way to the reprocessing plant dragging your ore there in order for it to get refined. But after having played games like Neocron where corporations could purchase their own meeting spaces, I can see the value in having areas where you can meet with others for some types of interaction. In that game, having everyone sitting around a table and chatting strategy was incredibly immersive and often fun. For example, we had a rule where if anyone got up and /danced on the table they'd be wtfpwned by the rest of the attendees and have to spend the rest of the meeting listening in as a corpse. Anyway, I'm pretty confident this will add to the EVE experience, not take away or dilute it. warp drive active \| nature vraie
Sheriff Jones	Posted - 2007.03.12 13:30:00 - [7] There are two types of people in MMORPGs' Gamer type: Cares more about the statistics, best fits, cookie cutting and overall being the best of the best of the best. Socialising is somwhat limited to out of character planning, smacktalk and doing "haha" comments about whatnot. Roleplayer type: Cares more about the social aspect. Wants to see other people, talk to them from other place then inside their POD via com system, likes to immerse into storylines. Best fits and uber ships are not a priority, just something to aim for while having fun. Neither type is "bad", or "best way" to play. Just different. Ofcourse then there are the linewalkers, who like both, and new content is just "cool"
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.12 13:32:00 - [8] Originally by: Sheriff Jones There are two types of people in MMORPGs' Gamer type: Cares more about the statistics, best fits, cookie cutting and overall being the best of the best of the best. Socialising is somwhat limited to out of character planning, smacktalk and doing "haha" comments about whatnot. Roleplayer type: Cares more about the social aspect. Wants to see other people, talk to them from other place then inside their POD via com system, likes to immerse into storylines. Best fits and uber ships are not a priority, just something to aim for while having fun. Neither type is "bad", or "best way" to play. Just different. Ofcourse then there are the linewalkers, who like both, and new content is just "cool" I'm an RPer. I'm not in favour of WIS without content. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Hana Brenecki	Posted - 2007.03.12 13:36:00 - [9] Edited by: Hana Brenecki on 12/03/2007 13:34:03 I actually understand what the OP means. I think! "Roleplaying" and "social" gaming aren't quite the same thing. I love roleplay, therefore I don't operate OOC in the game whatsoever partly because I dislike 'social' chatter. Endless non-characterised talk about how much ISK someone got, how great their new ship or fitting is, how to beat certain ship or tactic types, what they did on the weekend etc isn't particularly interesting to me. My hope is that people decide to use Walking In Stations as a roleplay tool. I know that's definitely how I'll be using it. But I'm sure it will also get used for the other things because I'm very aware that roleplayers are in the minority and most people MMORPG for the social stuff, because the scale of sociality is after all precisely what makes MMORPGs distinct from playing by your lonesome, or in a very small group. I dare say that the developers are already thinking about these kinds of issues and hopefully how to implement WIS in a way that separates 'social' from 'roleplay'. But let's see how they implement it before we start fine-tuning this stuff. Also keep in mind that EVE will always be more than a game, it's also a community of people. Anyone who thinks that any online game is "just a game" is always wrong. Single player games are arguably "just a game", yes. However, as soon as you start involving other humans, a game becomes a social environment, of some kind, along with much of the positive and negative that social environments entail.
Sheriff Jones	Posted - 2007.03.12 13:37:00 - [10] Originally by: Rodj Blake I'm an RPer. I'm not in favour of WIS without content. Well as an RPr', you must see what this COULD bring and how just wlaking in and around stations could immerse the RP elements and possibilities. As an example, it would be hard to do a romantic storyline when two haulers are talking sweet things in a belt somewhere
News Minmatar Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.03.12 13:42:00 - [11] I want WIS, and I want lots of /emotes. I want it to be the best looking IRC client ever, just imagine the possibilities of an /asl emote! Seriously though, WIS looks pretty sweet, but it will need content. If it comes without content, people will walk about a station once or twice, then forget about the whole thing, and it ends up being a big waste of resources. However, I can't make my mind up whether or not I think CCP will actually bring the content. I think a big reason for them developing WIS, is getting experience and a decent framework for the World of Darkness MMO. I just hope that that isn't the only reason they're working on it.
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War	Posted - 2007.03.12 13:57:00 - [12] Edited by: Plutoinum on 12/03/2007 13:54:33 Originally by: Winterblink But after having played games like Neocron where corporations could purchase their own meeting spaces, I can see the value in having areas where you can meet with others for some types of interaction. In that game, having everyone sitting around a table and chatting strategy was incredibly immersive and often fun. For example, we had a rule where if anyone got up and /danced on the table they'd be wtfpwned by the rest of the attendees and have to spend the rest of the meeting listening in as a corpse. I agree to this. I have also played Neocron. Once we have brought a spy into one of our enemy corps. He told us, when they were holding a meeting, so we formed up, met at their clan appartment, he opened the door, we rushed in and killed everyone. Our spy mate first. lol. After that we had an RP dinner with a lot of virtual alcoholics. Everything screenshotted ofc. That was fun, too. ___________ Muuuhhh !!!
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.03.12 14:55:00 - [13] Originally by: Plutoinum I agree to this. I have also played Neocron. Once we have brought a spy into one of our enemy corps. He told us, when they were holding a meeting, so we formed up, met at their clan appartment, he opened the door, we rushed in and killed everyone. Our spy mate first. lol. After that we had an RP dinner with a lot of virtual alcoholics. Everything screenshotted ofc. That was fun, too. I remember how the virtual alchohol would totally frack up your character too, controls would get all wonky, your visuals would get all fuzzy, and if you kept on going you'd pass out on the ground for all to see and laugh at. :) Every game's got little goofy things like that. With EVE it's always hilarious when someone has some goofy item in their hold and it shows up on a kill mail (an Exotic Dancer, one unit of Wheat, etc). Good times. warp drive active \| nature vraie
Timeto Die	Posted - 2007.03.12 15:00:00 - [14] Edited by: Timeto Die on 12/03/2007 14:58:34 I dunno, but I'm looking forward to using the RP defence next time I go robbing panties in a shop! http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/ukfs_news/hi/newsid_6420000/newsid_6425300/6425333.stm More seriously, I like the social side of these online games and I'd like emotes, and to be able to play card games for ISK in stations.
Spoon Thumb Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.03.12 23:06:00 - [15] It would be nice to have a proper meeting hall in station for all those RP events rather than local or really basic irc style channels we have now One thing I want to know is what is going to stop a bunch of Minmatar chilling in an Amarr station. Alcohol is illegal in Amarr so no station bar? or Strip joints? It would be nice to get some extra info on what characters will or won't be able to do (aside from the obvious walking and talking) Bloodline: Khaldari Research Services BPO Shop KPA Recruiting!
MaiLina KaTar	Posted - 2007.03.13 00:01:00 - [16] I like the way CCP are going right now. Hopefully they manage to bring back a bit of the rp and immersion that made me sign up in the first place. I'm just tired of the "look at my 1337 killboard scorez" type of play Eve has going right now.
Brolly Caldari The Department of Justice	Posted - 2007.03.13 00:27:00 - [17] As it has been stated before in the Dev blog, one of the main reasons of getting WIS sorted out is that CCP will have a spring board when starting their white wolf MMO. I kinda like what Ovuer said in the last fanfest "in eve, players become roleplayers regardless off play type"..or something to that effect at least. I really don't see CCP using this to get players from other MMO's, also the WIS can greatly enhance the general atmosphere in eve, should you desire it. Like many others, I will be so glad to get out of the pod and at last gain a deeper link with my avatars. I'm kinda bored of being my ship, which is oe of my main reasons for fleeting off to other MMO's. At the end of the day eve should not be kept just as a game. Virtual worlds are like mini holiday destinations, it's nice to get out there and explore them and do what pleases you, be it sitting around chatting,bonking npc's on the head with big sticks or PVP. I stink yo feer
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2007.03.13 01:24:00 - [18] Edited by: Soporo on 13/03/2007 01:22:32 I just want to be able to walk into the station and sit down at a poker game against other players for iskies. Or gamble on races( long limbed roe races?). (slave girl jello races?) Or have a Corp meeting.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.03.13 01:49:00 - [19] Originally by: Spoon Thumb stuff This is better than the last one. So far, due to the fact that we are stuck in our ships, our interaction is limited to the chat windows. This has actually been known to put people off the game, and is somewhat unfortunate even ignoring this. So, I think it would be ok if WIS simply supplied the missing element of MMORPing. I would certainly rather pretty MMORPing with no real content over WIS developing into something so big that to ignore it would mean cutting yourself off from a significant part of the game. - If you go into your options menu, there's a difficulty slider. Put that all the way over to the easiest setting and you'll be fine.

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