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When a group of people are farming a complex for 16 hours a day.

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Terrak2 Definition Of Destruction	Posted - 2007.03.13 12:31:00 - [31] Originally by: Strength Cow snip It's not exactly that easy. Every player that CCP bans is money out of their pocket. If they ban one player wrongfully, that's $15 of honest money out of their pockets each month, not to mention the possibility of friends quitting as well. Not to mention, the $15 they lose from each macro miner they lose. CCP does not HAVE to have total proof to ban someone, but it's a damn good business practice. Not to mention possible, though unlikely, legal troubles with being wrongfully banned? I'm hard to come by like a straight guy workin' at Starbucks.
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War	Posted - 2007.03.13 12:45:00 - [32] Edited by: Plutoinum on 13/03/2007 12:45:15 Implement a timer. Like if you sit in the last stage for a long time, you get warped back to the entry gate ( or X minutes after you have completed the main objective in the last stage / started looting. ) ___________ Muuuhhh !!!
Vasiliyan PAX Interstellar Services Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.13 12:57:00 - [33] So far as I can tell, plexes are designed to be farmed. If CCP doesn't want them to be farmed, they'd move them to the exploration system.
Maam	Posted - 2007.03.13 12:59:00 - [34] Anyone remember "Defender"? You sit around anywhere for too long and a baiter ship comes zipping along. It isn't indestructable, but it keeps you on your toes and is very fast and pretty hard to shoot. Joust had a Terradactyl (sp?) and that performed the same function and was even harder to kill. Eve needs some Jove (or Shadows or Vorlons!) that come along and mix things up a bit if you sit and "hog" an area for too long. Not totally indestrucible, but enough to make you unable to play in semi AFK mode.
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.03.13 13:02:00 - [35] Edited by: Winterblink on 13/03/2007 12:58:45 Originally by: Maam Anyone remember "Defender"? You sit around anywhere for too long and a baiter ship comes zipping along. It isn't indestructable, but it keeps you on your toes and is very fast and pretty hard to shoot. Joust had a Terradactyl (sp?) and that performed the same function and was even harder to kill. Eve needs some Jove (or Shadows or Vorlons!) that come along and mix things up a bit if you sit and "hog" an area for too long. Not totally indestrucible, but enough to make you unable to play in semi AFK mode. Sounds great, but I can see that thing being farmed as well. :) All they need is a gigantic multi-wave fleet to come in and try to overpower the players camping it. As you say, not indestructable, but they'd be incredibly difficult, very numerous, and have nothing for bounty and loot (anti-farming). If you can fight your way through, you can keep camping. :) warp drive active \| nature vraie
Siri Blue Gallente Duvolle Laboratories Blue Division	Posted - 2007.03.13 13:07:00 - [36] Static complexes were supposed to be removed quite some time ago now...and replaced with moving exploration content...CCP is just slow sigh Really hope they intergrate them into exploration soon...that should solve any camping hopefully...
Maam	Posted - 2007.03.13 13:28:00 - [37] Originally by: Winterblink Sounds great, but I can see that thing being farmed as well. :) All they need is a gigantic multi-wave fleet to come in and try to overpower the players camping it. As you say, not indestructable, but they'd be incredibly difficult, very numerous, and have nothing for bounty and loot (anti-farming). If you can fight your way through, you can keep camping. :) Yup, that was pretty much how the baiter worked. The points scored for a baiter kill were totally the inverse of the difficulty. No point at all in waiting for it to farm for a high score. Once a baiter was on the scene, you'd finish the wave and move on, unless you were a total masochist.
Juwi Kotch Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Galactic-Federation	Posted - 2007.03.13 13:47:00 - [38] Edited by: Juwi Kotch on 13/03/2007 13:43:35 1. Don't allow cloaks to work in Complexes 2. Get rid of static complexes, add it to the exploration system, or put them at least in a different random system within a constallation every day - and no beacons 3. Put a (generous) time limit on staying in a Complex, after that you are warped out and cannot enter again before next downtime After having watched the goldfarmer videos, I'm really wondering if it is a morale thing to do. Would that safe the (real) life and future of present goldfarmers? Or would that destroy their (probably only) job opportunity? Juwi Kotch JOIN NOW, KLICK SIG!
SasRipper DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2007.03.13 14:00:00 - [39] where? mail me they shall be yarred at \|- My Sig loggedoffskied -\| Save Radar Scanner Man!
Trilliam Blackthorn	Posted - 2007.03.13 14:32:00 - [40] Quote: After having watched the goldfarmer videos, I'm really wondering if it is a morale thing to do. Would that safe the (real) life and future of present goldfarmers? Or would that destroy their (probably only) job opportunity? Moral right and wrong is a two-way street. Something tells me these people were able to make a living (however below our standards it may be) BEFORE online game farming came along, and would be again. Is it morally right for them to break the EULA?
Phyrr Minmatar The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2007.03.13 15:06:00 - [41] iirc they have difficulty banning these accounts because there is some sort of legal loop hole about virtual currency. So CCP has to follow their EULA to the letter and macros/farmers are actually harder to keep up with than you think. There are hundreds of new ones born every day from our noob schools.
Sgt Napalm Synergy Evolved Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2007.03.13 16:01:00 - [42] Names & Locations please --- [Video] Skool of Harpy - Da Blarpy
heheheh Singularity.	Posted - 2007.03.13 16:22:00 - [43] how do you know its just not a few people that like farming it ? they may be sitting afk taking turns to look for the overseer.
d026 WIPE INC	Posted - 2007.03.13 16:27:00 - [44] Edited by: d026 on 13/03/2007 16:24:07 plexes are completely bugged. once you are inside you are invul (except somebody else has a key). this should have been fixed a long time ago, so that it is possible to probe plex runners on every stage and engage them. at least they could remove the keys..
d026 WIPE INC	Posted - 2007.03.13 16:29:00 - [45] non static plexesm or forced warp out after clearing the last stage would be an option to:)
Miklas Laces A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A	Posted - 2007.03.13 16:31:00 - [46] Originally by: Smelly Kelly I have lost faith in the GM's, and possibly CCP, it seems like they don't care, who can i report this to who will actually properly look into it? Lol, report what ? Farming a complex is not forbidden. Funny guy
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2007.03.13 16:31:00 - [47] The only "evidence" the OP has is that this particular group of players is playing eve the way it was ment to be played (doesnt matter what the devs / players wanted, only thing matters is what they designed). He / They learned and mastered complexes, multi-logging, resource control, powergaming, metagaming etc. They play near optimum at aquiring resources and denying their opponent any chance at interfering with them. This is exactly how eve should be played according to the design. You happen to need trillions of ISK to play at the highest level and they seem to be very good at getting some of it. Up to this point, there is absolutely no difference to someone who happens to have his RL money sorted, loves eve and dedicates his life to play to win (games are no worse hobbies then cars, collecting stamps or climbing mount everest). This is the game CCP designed. The complex system basically screams "camp me 23/7". Of course, some people have other motives besides "playing to win". However, up to the point where their money leaves their wallet, there is no difference to "proper players". Want a casual, fun, rewarding game that doesnt claim your life? Get out of MMORPGs. So in summary, all your evidence point to the fact that CCP cannot design any fun content, all the evidence that this / those players deserve to be banned is still missing.
Loyal Servant Caldari The Short Bus Squad The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2007.03.13 17:19:00 - [48] This is a grey area. First off, in the case of CCP, they have a chinese server and market! it is completely different from the US/EU market and hence, they should just block any and all traffic from China. And... they amend the EULA to include banning of multiple accounts with sequential names.... or something of that nature... probable cant do it but hey :) Won't solve the problem but it will kill off the smaller farming operations, making the price of the items/isk rise. It will make it hard to actually make money when: 1. They need a VPN/Proxy to get onto TQ. 2. isk can be purchased legally with timecards. 3. plexes are moved into the exploration system. TSBS - Eve's Premier podding service!
Oarta	Posted - 2007.03.13 17:31:00 - [49] I have had experience with campers who seem to be farmer type individuals. This I gathered from a group of three (3) characters always being together yet in different starter corporations. I am not sure this applies to all the complexes, but you can go in after them once the key holder for the gates has re-spawned. Unless they are always re-running the complex, you can get to them at a later time. Just use the opportunity to bring alone a bunch of friends and wipe them out. If they truly are farmers, they will find somewhere else to go. Otherwise if they are players, you have just found yourself a fun enemy to battle things out with. Complexes, for those who do not camp them, seem like a bad thing. I think a lot of it comes from the envy, as in one player wishes he could camp it but someone else beat them to it. I believe they are a good thing because they offer a place for a group of friends to go and fight together to have something to do without the need to hunt things down or have the ranking for level 4 missions. It is a no brainer easy access activity for all to enjoy.
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.03.13 17:37:00 - [50] The key, as they say in the third video, is that the bots and macroers are the real problem. - - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - or automatic signatures - - - - - - - - "186,282 miles per second; It's not just a good idea, it's the law."
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.13 17:44:00 - [51] The obvious solution is to eliminate easily-farmed content, like static complexes. Automatically kicking ships out of the last level of the complex a while after killing the overseer wouldn't hurt either. ("warp pocket collapsing") --23 Member-- EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard
Aduna Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.03.13 19:34:00 - [52] in soviet russia, ISK farms you.
GGeorge GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.03.13 19:54:00 - [53] Originally by: Dark Shikari The obvious solution is to eliminate easily-farmed content, like static complexes. Automatically kicking ships out of the last level of the complex a while after killing the overseer wouldn't hurt either. ("warp pocket collapsing") I agree. While we are at it lets make agents change stations every DT and T2 BPO's get reseeded every month. The sec status of systems can change all the time to make it so alliances can't set up a Minmitar refinery station to camp the low true sec ores like ark and crok. moon should run out of dysp and new discoveries should be made at previously thought barren moons. Lets face it, eve is designed around fighting for static content and complexes are a part of that. They're only farming in that no one else is kicking them off it so if you hate it so much, go and kick them off.
Loyal Servant Caldari The Short Bus Squad The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2007.03.13 21:10:00 - [54] I kinda disagree with my goon friend above.... I think eve needs to be more dynamic. If you know what to expect each time, what is the fun in it? These guys can take advantage of this purely because they know what to expect 100% of the time. Now, the new hidden plexes I have heard horror stories about which is good.. I don't think that a 'command post' or whatever you want to call it should park in the same place day in and day out. what IDIOT (NPC) would let you come in, blow his ships/people/structures/equipment up and set up again an hour later, just to be repeated? That does not compute.. respawn times should be in random locations and in random places/systems. TSBS - Eve's Premier podding service!
Calistro Gallente RABBLE-RABBLE	Posted - 2007.03.13 22:31:00 - [55] Atleast look at one positive point. It's guarenteed PvP everyday after DT :) I remember when we were clearing out a 10/10 complex, we ended up killing 3 x dreads (they logged in if it was contested), 3 carriers, dozens of BS'es, fighters, interceptors. You can get really cool fights out of complex farmers if you are willing to commit the manpower and the time to do it. We eventually cleared them out, and it wasn't till 3 months later we got company again from isk farmers again, and there was action there again. RUS academy if you're reading this, say hi to Zdanko & Fran for me ;) http://www.eve-files.com/media/corp/Calistro/ - Contains screenshots of a bunch of cans i managed to probe out. Check the loot of what they lost, probing out their stuff is what stops them. After we did that, they had to bring in another 10 active characters to keep doing it, and we still put up a brave fight. Was fun none the less :) So my advice is, take up the challenge with these people, and go open up a can of woopass on them.
ElweSingollo The Vanyar	Posted - 2007.03.13 23:13:00 - [56] Edited by: ElweSingollo on 13/03/2007 23:11:56 Originally by: Calistro Atleast look at one positive point. It's guarenteed PvP everyday after DT :) I remember when we were clearing out a 10/10 complex, we ended up killing 3 x dreads (they logged in if it was contested), 3 carriers, dozens of BS'es, fighters, interceptors. You can get really cool fights out of complex farmers if you are willing to commit the manpower and the time to do it. We eventually cleared them out, and it wasn't till 3 months later we got company again from isk farmers again, and there was action there again. RUS academy if you're reading this, say hi to Zdanko & Fran for me ;) http://www.eve-files.com/media/corp/Calistro/ - Contains screenshots of a bunch of cans i managed to probe out. Check the loot of what they lost, probing out their stuff is what stops them. After we did that, they had to bring in another 10 active characters to keep doing it, and we still put up a brave fight. Was fun none the less :) So my advice is, take up the challenge with these people, and go open up a can of woopass on them. Aaah the joys of D-F eh Cal I hated that cause I never got the chance to be online around DT it was a very bad time for me although I did manage it on one or two occasions Cerb and a Heretic which hadnt realised that if the gate was bubbled you can't jump through (or at least I think that was the case). CCP and Eve Online... It's not a bug, it's a feature
Sphynix	Posted - 2007.03.14 00:00:00 - [57] The great irony is that the economy actually relies on macro-miners to a great extent. If it wasn't for hordes of AFK miners then the cost of low-end minerals would be significantly higher than currently and who would mine all the ice that is needed for PoS, jumping and siege? There would be a few corps around with dedicated miner types that like to sit watching their ice miners cycle for 16 hours a day. These corps would pretty much own eve - and you'd all be whining about them instead. Now with the example given, you have folk farming an area for ISK value drops. The bounties themselves aren't to bad but its the loot that really counts. Thing is, someone will be farming it. If this group of farmers is actually good enough to fend off an attack then there is nothing you can truely complain about. They could just be that "dedicated" that they enjoy sitting there for 16 hours a day. If they really were using macro's then just by watching them you could see the routine and counter it. The ability to adapt to a changing situation is you don't see in bots. Now, if they couldn't adapt/beat the opposing force then you have nothing to really complain about because, well, they aren't farming it anymore. The victors are. What you can really complain about though, is that you aren't farming that plex. Of course the biggest downside of the macro farmers is that they sell the in-game currency for real cash. On the bright side, unlike most games, in eve a new player can't do very much with that 11 billion ISK they just bought. Here it just makes the pirates happy when some poor sod takes out their fully faction fitted raven and tries to rat in lowsec, with 4 mil SP :) (on a side note i'd love to make a billion ISK a day, but what would i do with it? - by the time i can fly a cap ship i'd have enough to buy a titan...)
Wanoah Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.03.14 00:28:00 - [58] Originally by: Sphynix The great irony is that the economy actually relies on macro-miners to a great extent. The greater irony is that one of the easiest entry-level professions in Eve to get new players on their way has been completely eliminated by the farmers.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2007.03.14 00:44:00 - [59] Originally by: Ryas Nia get in to the last level with a large fleet log and wait for them to start farming then log in and kill them all. Rinse and repeat till they leave. Logging out in a complex makes you login at the entrance. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
hired goon Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.14 00:46:00 - [60] Argue argue argue! Is there some explainable reason why the location of this complex hasn't been posted yet? Jesus christ woman. Also POST WITH YOUR MAIN! Also*****s. -omg-

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