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Dirty Forum Alt
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Posted - 2016.08.18 13:42:25 -
[1] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Viktor Amarr wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Those other abilities are not desired... for semi-afk use. Thanks for clearing that up. Am I supposed to be offended by that in some way? 
Yes - any level of AFK-ness is inherently evil. EVE should be played like an FPS, where leaving the keyboard while playing harms your team and makes everyone hate you.
Now excuse me while I afk autopilot for the other side of EVE  |
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Posted - 2016.08.18 15:14:56 -
[2] - Quote
Or just go suspect and kill whoever else attacks you too - always a fun option (though you would have to train combat skills I'm afraid)
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Posted - 2016.08.18 18:43:05 -
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baltec1 wrote:Gunrunner1775 wrote:ganking is the only issue realy... its ganking that lead to this imballance to begin with.... You would think that looking at the forums but in reality more are killed outside of highsec than in it. If we then add in barges that die to wars too then the numbers ganked are tiny. Whining about ganking might have brought about the changes but the problem with the ships is, as always, much wider than just a niche group in highsec.
Oddly...I've never seen a pilot outside of high sec complaining that they died because their mining ship was under-powered for the task at hand...
Nor have I seen a mining ship killed during war-time that would have been aided by any kind of fitting rebalance...
Just saying... |
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Posted - 2016.08.18 18:51:12 -
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baltec1 wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Oddly...I've never seen a pilot outside of high sec complaining that they died because their mining ship was under-powered for the task at hand... Nor have I seen a mining ship killed during war-time that would have been aided by any kind of fitting rebalance... Just saying... Just because they ***** less doesn't mean they don't see the ships as pathetic.
It doesn't mean they *do* see the ships as pathetic either...
edit:
Indeed the roaming/camping skiff/procurer combat fleets would seem to indicate that they do *not* consider current mining ships to be too weak - rather they are fun ships to kill people with.
Also the truly weak ships are good for *BAIT* - and they will hate you if you take that away from them. |
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Posted - 2016.08.18 19:35:58 -
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baltec1 wrote:You're seriously defending the covetor?
Outside of high-sec miners generally rely on separate combat ships to kill rats and defend them, so I don't see any particular problem with it there...
edit:
And given your alliance you of all people should appreciate the value of good, tantalizing bait - even if you have to put the cyno on a separate cloaky ship  |
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Posted - 2016.08.19 23:06:15 -
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Rather than transforming mining ships into full-fledged combat vessels (more than they already are) it might be simpler to just re-introduce the old regular ships w/ mining bonuses... In addition to the previous frigate/cruiser levels they could introduce a new class of Heavy Assault Cruiser or battleship with the ability to fit strip miners - to make it so there would at least be a chance some miners might fly them.
Of course, the fact that these ships already existed and were transformed into logistics ships instead probably indicates this is not a direction CCP is interested in going... |
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Posted - 2016.08.20 14:26:27 -
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Well it seems I'm late to the party - but I've never understood why miner fleets don't just toss a few logistics cruisers in their orca and put their logistics pilots in prop-mod-fit skiffs/procurers (so they can still get to the orca quickly if it happens to get bumped).
Then the fleet has logi, and the logi pilots still get to mine and earn isk as long as nobody is actively ganking the fleet...
I mean it isn't foolproof - but it would certainly help prevent at least the half-hearted ganks and make the gankers work significantly harder.
Just throwing it out there |
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Posted - 2016.08.21 11:54:02 -
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Viktor Amarr wrote:If not for the idiot with the clown fit Skiff he'd never been ganked in the first place and skiff would have been 0%. So just following along with your math...only 9 mining ships got ganked in high-sec *total* in the past 72 hours?
This seems unlikely... |
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Posted - 2016.08.21 16:21:23 -
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baltec1 wrote:Why should they be balanced (poorly) around highsec ganking when it makes up a tiny fraction of barges killed? You (and a few others) keep saying this...
And yet CODE. keeps bragging that they are consistently in the top 4-7 alliances for *total kills* in all of EVE. Even including all combat ship kills and all of the large 0.0 alliances with their famous fleet battles...
So just to be clear: Are you saying that only a tiny fraction of the ships CODE. kills are mining ships?
Or are you saying that the #1 most used ships in all of those 0.0 fleet battles are mining ships?
One or the other must *clearly* be true...or is it both? |
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Posted - 2016.08.22 22:24:38 -
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^
Honestly I think Ganking is in a good spot right now. I don't think it is a "problem".
Even a few hundred mining ships a day is barely a drop in the bucket compared to the thousands out there mining - and you'll get no argument from me that the vast majority of them had it coming for not being prepared at all.
I just don't see why you guys need to pretend it isn't happening, or down-play it to the point of claiming that "more freighters die outside of high sec" or "more mining barges die outside of high sec" etc...
The numbers are pretty glaringly obvious if you bother to look at them...And they indicate that ganking numbers are perfectly manageable - but it does happen, often. A small number of gankers are quite active.
Just take the win and stop pushing for more... |
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Posted - 2016.08.22 23:28:41 -
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Gunrunner1775 wrote:(and even if you do not want to belive it, or if your just a complete and total idiot and totaly clueless about the economy of the game... this would be a very very bad thing for the overall economy)
Must we really start *that* entire argument...again?
Also:
Day 4:
I realize my orca has a huge fleet hangar I've been failing to use, so I fit my orca for tank + mining boosts, load up the fleet hangar with a Scimitar and a svipul, and undock my 2x hulks + orca and go mine.
When the "hostile" group shows up in local, I smile to myself as I open up the fleet hangar on the orca.
As the red catalysts become visible on grid (now a good 15-30 seconds before they can actually do anything due to enormous modern grid sizes) I calmly re-ship into my logistics ship + svipul, and lock all of my ships so I'm ready to apply logistics to whoever gets shot. I also set the logi to orbit at 20km, and make sure the svipul is in targetting mode.
As the catalysts finish landing on grid, I spam ctrl + click on them with my svipul pilot to insta-lock them, with my artillery prepped to fire.
Once my artillery activates on the first catalyst I activate my warp disruptor on the second, and see how many I can kill before they either suicide or flee. When my svipul takes fire, I repair it easily. If the gankers target my orca? Still plenty of time to transfer RR over to it.
I make sure to kill the capsules of my enemies as well, and leave their corpses floating in the void of space as a warning to others.
Days 5, 6, and 7 continue much the same - I get high yield from mining and also 50-60 million isk of free ganker loot occasionally. Maybe I throw a few blackbirds into my orca fleet hangar to counter the inevitable bomber/talos attack on my max-tanked orca - or maybe I resign myself to the fact that I'll make more isk looting the ganker wrecks than saving the orca anyway.
In any case, my EVE mining career is now much more exciting, *and* more profitable!
Yaaaay EVE \o/
 |
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Posted - 2016.08.22 23:55:13 -
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Gunrunner1775 wrote:while i love your description, and i have used a varient of that....
its not as effective in high sec....
example:..
yes, i swap to combat ships
technicaly i can not shoot at them until they shoot at me first in high sec, or else i will get myself concorded (which i do not desire)
in theory, they can warp in, and just sit there and follow me around and take no action, at which point, i am again unable to mine (unless i am mineing in a skiff, at which point i can mine if its only a couple of catalysts... if its about dozen give or take, then yea, time to dock up)
I believe you will find *most* gankers these days you can shoot before they shoot you. They've been at it a while now, they are pretty much all -10.
The ones who aren't -10 are the newbs they've recruited - who are much less threatening in general anyway, but also more likely to panic and fire uselessly. |
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Posted - 2016.08.23 00:01:16 -
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Gunrunner1775 wrote:LOL had just edited my post to state that i have observed the direct oppisite of what you are saying
different regions of space im guessing... 99% of the freighter gankers i have observed are all -10,
but the miner gankers, at least the ones i have followed around observing, im guessing these must be their alts (or mains) and they use another toon to farm tags to fix security status, or hunt rats just enough to fix it
Well fair enough.
There is an even sneakier trick to use if you aren't up against the harder-core ones who bring a lot more numbers then:
Instead of combat ships, pack some max-tanked skiffs in the orca....and see if they notice the swap |
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Posted - 2016.08.23 00:05:54 -
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Well worst case it means you get max yield when they aren't around and even when they show up instead of not mining you just go down to slightly reduced yield.
And in the ideal case you get the free ganker loot to boost profits 
My point is if you get creative you can turn the tables on them, and instead of ruining your day they actually make things better.
Nothing is 100% foolproof - but it is a game, so if you can find ways to make it fun even when others are trying to ruin your fun...that is a win. |
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Posted - 2016.08.23 00:21:16 -
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Gunrunner1775 wrote:while i totaly agree with what you are saying
most folks will just say screw it and mine with a skiff... at least in high sec.. in WH space, i always use a skiff, stabbed and all that other good stuff,, especialy those that do not have orca support
hulk and mack, just too paper thin. and even when paying attention, you gotta dock up, because you just will not survive 1-2 cats comeing in to gank you... and docked up miners = no income
and nurfing the skiff. will only result in me useing a Rokh to mine astroids ... are they gonna nurf the Rokh because it cant be ganked by 1-2 cats?? (and will just use the endurance for mining ice )
Last time people started mining with rokh's they buffed mining ships w/ ore holds lol
One way or another the universe will keep going, and miners will find ways to mine - even if they are all in ventures/endurances
edit: Or even if they all end up in battleships |
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Posted - 2016.08.23 10:46:02 -
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baltec1 wrote:Again, same EHP as a marauder coupled with an offensive bonus to drones is not easy to gank, especially when they would have logi support.
Can I get the 20,000 ehp *per second* active tank from the marauder too if we are using that as our metric?
That would be one *scary* skiff... |
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Posted - 2016.08.23 11:24:49 -
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baltec1 wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Nice moving Goalposts Baltec. You got called on your example and you have singly failed to back it up.
What do you think incursion gangs and pvp gangs do in highsec?
Since Marauders can not receive RR in bastion mode - and non-marauders are better if not using bastion mode... I'm guessing they run local tanks.
You also keep referencing mission ships... But the few missioners who actually do bring RR alts along on their missions get made fun of almost as much as miners who get ganked - because they are "doing it wrong"...
As for what PvP gangs do in high-sec... I don't think you'll get any objections from the miners if you use *those* ships as the baseline...
That would be, what.. Anywhere between 150k-500k ehp? Plus RR on top of that?
Yeah, I think they'd be happy with that...  |
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Posted - 2016.08.23 11:32:18 -
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Solecist Project wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:baltec1 wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Nice moving Goalposts Baltec. You got called on your example and you have singly failed to back it up.
What do you think incursion gangs and pvp gangs do in highsec? Since Marauders can not receive RR in bastion mode - and non-marauders are better if not using bastion mode... I'm guessing they run local tanks. Wait, what? Non marauders can use bastion?
No, just pointing out that it is a silly point of comparison - and that nobody would be happy with the ehp they get on their incursion marauder if that was *all* they got, without the massive active tank |
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Posted - 2016.08.23 11:38:15 -
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baltec1 wrote:Feel free to show me a 150k-500k ehp svipul.
Just as soon as *you* show *me* a 90k ehp svipul.
Because that is *your* number.
Now who is trying to muddy the argument?
We were talking about *high sec* PvP Ships.
Like this one |
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Posted - 2016.08.23 11:54:48 -
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baltec1 wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:baltec1 wrote:Feel free to show me a 150k-500k ehp svipul. Just as soon as *you* show *me* a 90k ehp svipul. Because that is *your* number. Now who is trying to muddy the argument? We were talking about *high sec* PvP Ships. Like this one Shock horror you decide to go for the most broken ship class in the game, the t3C. My 90k EHP is based upon heavy assault cruisers, a realistic number. A number that brings the skiff into the same range as mission battleships and marauders.
I went for the most common ehp-based ship type used for high sec pvp, since that was your example. Most HACs that the high-sec wardec groups are currently flying seem to be active-repper fit...
And I never disagreed with your comparison to heavy assault cruisers - I merely pointed out that it is silly to compare them to mission ships and marauders, since those ships only survive due to their *active repairs* - not their ehp. You are comparing apples to oranges and saying they are about the same size... Well good for you, but they aren't the same in any other way... |
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Posted - 2016.08.23 12:10:50 -
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Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
I went for the most common ehp-based ship type used for high sec pvp, since that was your example.
Are Svipuls more common than buffer T3C amongst the wardeccers?
It depends who you look at.
The more active roaming groups (such as marmite) obviously prefer small, mobile ships - so their top ships tend to be the svipul and garmur at present.
The static camping groups (Vendetta, Archetype, etc) tend to heavily favour their tanky ships - so their #1 choice is the proteus (yes, it even beats out the fast-tackle svipul)
Ironically although the proteus is a close 2nd, P I R A T is shifting towards a slightly more mobile Cynabal setup lately - so that is their preferred ship recently - and probably has somewhere around the 90k ehp that baltec is talking about. But it is the exception, not the rule. |
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Posted - 2016.08.23 12:11:47 -
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baltec1 wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
I went for the most common ehp-based ship type used for high sec pvp, since that was your example.
Are Svipuls more common than buffer T3C amongst the wardeccers? Svipuls are more common everywhere, hence why they get called cancer. All of the T3s are horribly overpowered so we should never be basing anything off their stats.
The top 10 most used ships for the past 7 days for Vendetta Mercenary Group:
Top Ships
Proteus
Proteus120
Phobos89
Stratios70
Legion67
Dramiel44
Loki40
Machariel35
Svipul30
Ishtar24
Broadsword15
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Posted - 2016.08.23 12:25:14 -
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ChromeStriker wrote:baltec1 wrote: An 80k-90k skiff is still on par with mission battleships which get plenty of EHP. Il confirm that just to stop the stupid argument. why gank a T2 fit skiff when you can blap a deadspace fit mission runner lol
Ah well that is a philosophical question, and you would have to ask the gankers involved... Be prepared for a sermon
@ Baltec - I'm not the one moving goal posts around, I'm just throwing your own stupid examples back in your face. If you want the goal-posts to stop moving I'm afraid *you* will need to put them down and stop carrying them around with you. |
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Posted - 2016.08.23 13:22:00 -
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Solecist Project wrote:No. Wbat is happening is argueing over details ...
... to make you give up.
Their goal is to make you give up, which to them feels like a win.
The topic itself is completely irrelevant. Has been for a few pages already.
As long as they distract you and keep you from making the proper thread in f&i ...
... they win. But i'm starting to think you don't even want to do that ...
... which makes the whole activity here a co plete waste of time.
You need to up your troll-fu, you are falling for it for days now.
You yourself will appreciate it later on when you just listen to me.
Sorry.
You are describing both sides of the discussion sadly - just trolls trolling trolls for the most part at this point...
Yes I shouldn't add to it I suppose... Sometimes it is hard to resist - and I figure a little mild trolling does less damage on threads like this that are already dead, zombified corpses shambling in circles... Good place to get it out of the system.  |
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Posted - 2016.08.23 13:36:34 -
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Khan Wrenth wrote:-Way too long to actually quote all that -
I think you have missed many of the more subtle elements of the ongoing discussion. That is fair enough, as it has spanned many threads now, this is merely the latest one.
There are more than 2 sides to this discussion, despite what you seem to think - and I'm a lot closer to Baltec's side on this issue than Dracvlad's (ironically enough)...
However Baltec has a tendency to post examples which are either entirely unrelated to the points he is trying to make (as I said, apples and oranges may be the same size, but they aren't the same) - or he tends to simply *make up* statistics to favour his own viewpoint. And I dunno...I enjoy poking holes in such flimsy, ridiculous arguments - even if I agree with his core argument.
I think the primary problem that most people are suffering from here is thinking that this argument is relevant to anything or has any hope of solving anything... None of the sides are even listening to the others, so there is no possible chance of changing anybody's minds here... And CCP isn't reading this **** - they *might* at best skim it briefly just to confirm it is the same old garbage being repeated yet again.
While I do try to remain factually accurate, and unfortunately may have slipped across the line into trolling and used a few weak examples myself here...I think I did better than you give me credit for - if you actually *read* what I wrote, and pay attention. But ultimately this entire argument is, as Solecist stated, a pointless waste of time... The sooner you accept that, the happier you will be |
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Posted - 2016.08.23 17:36:01 -
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Tau Cabalander wrote:"Space is big. Really big. You just wonGÇÖt believe how vastly hugely mindbogglingly big it is. I mean you may think itGÇÖs a long way down the road to the chemistGÇÖs, but thatGÇÖs just peanuts to space."
Well since you've made it vaguely on topic...
I believe the following excerpt from the legendary poet herself is just what we need to sum up this thread:
The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool.
They lay. They rotted. They turned
Around occasionally.
Bits of flesh dropped off them from
Time to time.
And sank into the pool's mire.
They also smelt a great deal.
--Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (aka: Paul Neil Milne Johnstone) |
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Posted - 2016.08.23 18:21:16 -
[27] - Quote
I get 1077 from the catalyst if you are willing to officer mag stab + polarized gun fit it...
Also some ganker in another thread said he gets 24 seconds in a 0.5 system with concord pre-pulled...
You still need 3.25 catalysts though for 80k ehp.
The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool.
They lay. They rotted. They turned
Around occasionally.
Bits of flesh dropped off them from
Time to time.
And sank into the pool's mire.
They also smelt a great deal.
Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
|
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Posted - 2016.08.23 18:26:43 -
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Solecist Project wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:I get 1077 from the catalyst if you are willing to officer mag stab + polarized gun fit it...
Also some ganker in another thread said he gets 24 seconds in a 0.5 system with concord pre-pulled...
You still need 3.25 catalysts though for 80k ehp. Well that's kind of unreasonable...
True - but I wanted to see if it was possible *at all* - as Teckos asked...
Realistically @ 700 dps over 24 seconds you need 4.75 catalysts w/ full t2 fit, max skills, and 3% implants. That *is* doable to get 5 of them together. Kusion fields 10 ganking alts alone, as I recall - so he should be able to hit 160k ehp in a 0.5 system, in theory, just with catalysts.
edit: It actually comes out to 16,800 ehp per catalyst - just for those who want an easy multiplier - 15k ehp per catalyst should be a reasonable amount to actually expect/ask for in general...though if you want to be "safe" you will of course bring extra.
The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool.
They lay. They rotted. They turned
Around occasionally.
Bits of flesh dropped off them from
Time to time.
And sank into the pool's mire.
They also smelt a great deal.
Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
|
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Posted - 2016.08.23 18:40:12 -
[29] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Missioners with RR are doing it wrong with the current mechanics. Change those mechanics and then RR might be the "right way". We are talking mechanics here not what is right and wrong right now under the current mechanics.
500k EHP? Please tell us which ship is that?
I'm sorry, having 80k EHP will not optimize any ship for ganking. Not at all. That is just a flat out nonsensical bit of rhetoric.
If you have logistics as well you will be far, far harder to gank. If you have DPS ships then they can defend the logi ships with LE timers. Alternatively there could be modifications on LE timers as well.
Baltec was comparing them to marauders/missioners under current mechanics - under current mechanics you need tornados to kill those ships, as they have high active tanks that make them significantly harder to whittle down with catalysts. That is why it is a *bad comparison*.
edit: In case anyone feels like whining that tornadoes or cats doesn't make a difference, I'll just point out for the record that 1 gank-fit tornado costs the same as *12* t2 fit catalysts, on average... So 8 tornados = 96 catalysts, by cost.
500k ehp is a brick proteus of course...with high-grade slaves + fleet boosts. Now I admit *most* high-sec pvpers don't fly quite that heavy - but I've seen them before. 150-250k is probably more "common" though, of course. Sometimes even less now that they are starting to realize nobody is fighting back anyway.... But again - it is a stupid comparison, so I don't know why baltec was trying to compare "high-sec PvP ships" to mining barges...
(For the record, it used to be up around a million ehp before the t3 nerfs - yes, some of them are *that* afraid of dying)
I never actually commented one way or another on the 80-90k ehp reference...So argue with the people who have on that one...
And I've proposed several strategies for fighting ganking using current mechanics. In fact my first response after people complained about going suspect with Baltec's proposed RR was essentially "So what? Kill whoever attacks you..." - again, argue with the people who disagree with you...
Anything else you'd like explained?
The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool.
They lay. They rotted. They turned
Around occasionally.
Bits of flesh dropped off them from
Time to time.
And sank into the pool's mire.
They also smelt a great deal.
Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
|
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Posted - 2016.08.23 18:46:27 -
[30] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:I get 1077 from the catalyst if you are willing to officer mag stab + polarized gun fit it...
Also some ganker in another thread said he gets 24 seconds in a 0.5 system with concord pre-pulled...
You still need 3.25 catalysts though for 80k ehp. Oh FFS, you are just being an ass now. You usually post much better than this. Yeah, people are going to gank fitting officer modules while ganking.
Yeah yeah, see my follow-up post to Solecist
The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool.
They lay. They rotted. They turned
Around occasionally.
Bits of flesh dropped off them from
Time to time.
And sank into the pool's mire.
They also smelt a great deal.
Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
|
Dirty Forum Alt
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Posted - 2016.08.23 18:49:57 -
[31] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:And that was my balance I want the tanky mining ship to be above a solo player, as Skiffs have been confirmed as staying at this level I am perfectly happy.
Well in terms of Kusion... Honestly he can probably gank any skiff being flown in a 0.5 system right now, with current EHP.
Fortunately for you - he seems to prefer juicy, profitable freighters.
The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool.
They lay. They rotted. They turned
Around occasionally.
Bits of flesh dropped off them from
Time to time.
And sank into the pool's mire.
They also smelt a great deal.
Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
|
Dirty Forum Alt
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Posted - 2016.08.23 18:55:49 -
[32] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Dracvlad wrote:And that was my balance I want the tanky mining ship to be above a solo player, as Skiffs have been confirmed as staying at this level I am perfectly happy. Well in terms of Kusion... Honestly he can probably gank any skiff being flown in a 0.5 system right now, with current EHP. Fortunately for you - he seems to prefer juicy, profitable freighters. Actually no, he has ganked poorly tanked skiffs in Otela a few times.
As seen here Even well-tanked skiffs can be killed. In this case they used 11 catalysts - but you will note that the top damage dealer did well over twice the damage of many of the other catalysts - meaning they had a lot of wasted dps they didn't get to use...so 11 cats was overkill.
Just because Kusion *doesn't* kill well-fit skiffs, doesn't mean he *can't*... It is simple math.
The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool.
They lay. They rotted. They turned
Around occasionally.
Bits of flesh dropped off them from
Time to time.
And sank into the pool's mire.
They also smelt a great deal.
Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
|
Dirty Forum Alt
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624
|
Posted - 2016.08.23 19:10:53 -
[33] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Dracvlad wrote:And that was my balance I want the tanky mining ship to be above a solo player, as Skiffs have been confirmed as staying at this level I am perfectly happy. Well in terms of Kusion... Honestly he can probably gank any skiff being flown in a 0.5 system right now, with current EHP. Fortunately for you - he seems to prefer juicy, profitable freighters. Actually no, he has ganked poorly tanked skiffs in Otela a few times. As seen here Even well-tanked skiffs can be killed. In this case they used 11 catalysts - but you will note that the top damage dealer did well over twice the damage of many of the other catalysts - meaning they had a lot of wasted dps they didn't get to use...so 11 cats was overkill. Just because Kusion *doesn't* kill well-fit skiffs, doesn't mean he *can't*... It is simple math. Well over twice the damage of many of the other catalysts? If by many other, you mean none then that's a strange use of language.
Touche - only nearly twice the damage of the lowest damage catalyst. I exaggerated, and I deserved that. o7
It did deal *significantly* more damage however - or if you prefer the lower half of catalysts did significantly *less* damage - so there was wasted dps on field.
The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool.
They lay. They rotted. They turned
Around occasionally.
Bits of flesh dropped off them from
Time to time.
And sank into the pool's mire.
They also smelt a great deal.
Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
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Posted - 2016.08.23 19:25:30 -
[34] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:So NPCs are gankers now?
**** me, this debate is even crazier than it reads.
I expect that sort of manipulation of the truth from Dracvlad, but you are normally much more reasonable in your posts.
I think you mis-read my edit there - I meant it was another *mistake* I made, when I claimed there were 11 gankers.
Just saving you the effort of finding it yourself to point out
You are correct though, I'm not in top form today - perhaps I'll withdraw and leave the debating battlefield to the rest of you for the time being o7
The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool.
They lay. They rotted. They turned
Around occasionally.
Bits of flesh dropped off them from
Time to time.
And sank into the pool's mire.
They also smelt a great deal.
Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
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Posted - 2016.08.24 11:22:32 -
[35] - Quote
@Solecist:
Soel's idea of the bumping machariel would still work against you - though it would require an alt.
Alternatively his backup plan of calling CODE *might* work - though I've noticed they rarely come when called lol
@Lawrence:
That makes sense - and I do realize that between imperfect skills, lack of implants, and coordination issues trying to get 10 different people to all gank at the same instant you need to bring extra catalysts because it isn't going to go *perfectly* to hit the maximum theoretical DPS every time.
I only brought it up because Jason Kusion specifically has been referenced as the metric against which we should measure the skiff - with people saying they don't want skiff tanks nerfed to be "Within 1 Kusion". And I was just using that kill to point out that even a high-tank skiff like that is *already* within Jason Kusion's power to gank just with his own alts, no special coordination.
I'm also assuming that since he doesn't need to talk to anybody for coordination and has his shortcuts set up he can achieve closer to the theoretical maximum dps from his ganking ships than 10 separate pilots could - though I could be wrong about that, i haven't looked into it much.
The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool.
They lay. They rotted. They turned
Around occasionally.
Bits of flesh dropped off them from
Time to time.
And sank into the pool's mire.
They also smelt a great deal.
Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
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Posted - 2016.08.24 15:32:38 -
[36] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:This data does not conform to visual inspection per ZKill. I can easily find anywhere from 3-18 on the killmail;
I assume the "ganked" includes pods, noobships and such baloney, where "gankship" is not in fact "any non-NPC" ?
Edit: I think that alleged sweet spot of 7 comes from (a) number of people you can keep busy or humanly multibox, and (b) catalyst cost vs killmail value. Don't think Drac meant anything beyond that.
Well it is only data for a *part* of a single day - whereas your visual inspection of zkill most likely traces back multiple days for any given ship type without much effort.
I'd be interested in a larger sample size (a month or so?) - but I realize it is an extremely large volume of data to go through.
All in all I actually like the chart - and despite the small sample size the trend is still pretty accurate - *most* ganks happen with 1-3 gankers on the mail.
The "7 as a sweet spot" thing is based on what Drac believes CODE. can field on a regular basis without needing to ask people to play outside their normal times/areas I presume. Whether it is accurate or not feel free to argue away
edit: The chart even has the (presumably jump freighter?) outliers w/ 29 people on the ganks in there - which does indicate that people are capable of fielding a lot more ships *if* they are motivated to do so.
The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool.
They lay. They rotted. They turned
Around occasionally.
Bits of flesh dropped off them from
Time to time.
And sank into the pool's mire.
They also smelt a great deal.
Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
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Posted - 2016.08.25 10:27:40 -
[37] - Quote
Drago Shouna wrote:You need to get a life. Says the guy insulting him on an internet video-game forum...
The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool.
They lay. They rotted. They turned
Around occasionally.
Bits of flesh dropped off them from
Time to time.
And sank into the pool's mire.
They also smelt a great deal.
Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
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Posted - 2016.08.25 16:27:13 -
[38] - Quote
Can also just dump out a depot for infinite refitting - only down-side is the 60 second delay.
And you can always hope somebody will shoot it and go suspect...
The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool.
They lay. They rotted. They turned
Around occasionally.
Bits of flesh dropped off them from
Time to time.
And sank into the pool's mire.
They also smelt a great deal.
Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
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Dirty Forum Alt
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Posted - 2016.08.30 11:53:52 -
[39] - Quote
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Drago Shouna wrote:You need to get a life. Says the guy insulting him on an internet video-game forum... says the person who cares enough to comment on a comment on a video game forum.
Well there is commenting...
Then there is insulting...
And then there is telling someone to "get a life" while demonstrating that you have none yourself...
I try to limit myself to the first 2. If you can't tell the difference, that is your own problem.
The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool.
They lay. They rotted. They turned
Around occasionally.
Bits of flesh dropped off them from
Time to time.
And sank into the pool's mire.
They also smelt a great deal.
Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
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