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supercap tackling and the nano nerf

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mazzilliu Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.03.13 13:25:00 - [1] Edited by: mazzilliu on 13/03/2007 13:30:53 There is a lot of talk and a lot of statements from devs intending to nerf nano ships. however they do it isnt the point of this thread, just the fact that nano battleships will go slower or cease to be effective is the only relevant fact. Consider the accepted tackling strategies on a mothership or a titan. There are only three ways currently of holding one of these down. bumping, dictor bubbling, and anchorable bubbling. If the guy has enough cap to cyno out then tough because none of those three will prevent jumping. For an anchorable bubble, just by looking at the stats of all three it seems to me that unless a number of things were parked right infront of a supercap blocking it or if it were totally surrounded in a sphere of bubbles, that (unwebbable)ship will be able to slowboat away from the dropped bubble before it complets anchoring, no matter the size. So interdictor bubbles are the only really effective way of preventing a supercap from initiating warp. but they have enough of their own glitches relevent to this situation that it is somewhat unreliable in itself. this means the most effective way to hold down a supercapital is a combination of bumping and interdictor bubbles. With the nano nerf, this also means a bumping nerf as the ships most popular for bumping are also the ships most likely to be heavy hit by a nano nerf. Dominix, Typhoon, maybe even the infamous nano naglfar. Of course in theory a large number of the entire enemy fleet can set their ships to 'approach' the titan and stop right ontop of it but that cannot possibly be a viable tactic in real combat because the titan pilot would fit smartbombs and pee himself laughing as he hits 20 ships simultaneously. This means that the most effective way to tackle a supercap will fall to interdictor bubbles alone after the nano nerf. And because ships already in warp are not affected, that means all a competent supercap pilot needs to do to prevent being held down at all is to always be in warp. By that I mean the pilot needs to select a celestial object that his ship is facing away from, cancel warp before he is fully aligned, and begin warp to something else behind the ship. Assuming this supercap pilot does not plan to use missiles(i believe this is the only thing that is affected by pre-warp?), and is vigilant to make sure he does not accidentally warp off, then all they need to do if they are bubbled in a potentially disastrous situation is to NOT cancel warp, and eventually warp away due to the lessened effectiveness of bumpers. Another tactic I've been thinking about for supercap tackling is having people warp in and emerge from warp inside the target. This requires more manpower, but it probably won't be affected by the nano nerf. Only motherships and titans I believe are big enough for this, as anyone emerging from warp will emerge in a 2.5km radius sphere around the actual target. A person in a battleship sitting right next to the supercap can act as a warpin point for a number of nano BS to warp in and emerge inside of the ship. Because of this, Nanonaglfars are probably THE best ship for titan tackling, but not at all for the reason lemonde thought. the naglfar is huge and sticks out from top and bottom very far so it is most likely to have some part of it emerge inside the titan. It has plenty of lowslots for istabs and the native minmatar speed advantage to get it into warp quicker. Also because it is a dread class ship, weighs more and will fling the supercap farther when it emerges. Unfortunately my alliance doesn't have a titan that i can test this tactic on, nor can I fly nanonaglfars or else I would definitely bring it to all our fleet battles just to try it on bob's titan when we see it. tl;dr: supercap tackling is ridiculous THE RUG IS TOO FULL
pastafarianist	Posted - 2007.03.13 14:42:00 - [2] Solution: make smartbombs, web, scram, nos 'utility' modules, give all ship sizes a certain amount of 'utility slots', except cap ships...no more smartbombing = no more dead tacklers and bubbles. Solves the nos setups as well and relieves caldari a bit for pvp (no more medslots needed for tackling).
kisu tei	Posted - 2007.03.13 14:52:00 - [3] Originally by: pastafarianist Solution: make smartbombs, web, scram, nos 'utility' modules, give all ship sizes a certain amount of 'utility slots', except cap ships...no more smartbombing = no more dead tacklers and bubbles. Solves the nos setups as well and relieves caldari a bit for pvp (no more medslots needed for tackling). /sign make a new topic for that though. i do like the idea of a nanogfar sounds funny. me wants to see a vid of that in action ----------------------------------------------- Kisu Tei is a sub Alt. Kisu Tei protects the identity of Kisu Tei's Main. however Kisu Tei is used for other purposes too. threat level. easy pickin
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.13 15:13:00 - [4] Edited by: LUKEC on 13/03/2007 15:15:17 Edited by: LUKEC on 13/03/2007 15:12:26 Theory: To get titan kill mail you must have done next: (1)must have been in corp named BMK (i'd rather not explain meaning) (2)bobbit (3)you must come from Slovenia (4)Your RL name must be L**...* (you can check with both that it's same) Proof: For the time beeing, only 2 titans were killed, and both fit very well within current theory. It's all just a chapter in great Tinfoil saga, but ... you can see now that you have practically no chances to get titan mail, so stop complaining. On more serious note(though stuff above is true, even though statistically impossible), i'd say that supercapitals die quite easily and I don't see any problems with nanonerf. You can bump stuff without nanos well enough. -------- .....
Pax Uranus Sofa.Kingdom	Posted - 2007.03.13 15:34:00 - [5] So, have any Titans been killed in an actual combat situation yet on TQ?
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.13 15:47:00 - [6] Originally by: Pax Uranus So, have any Titans been killed in an actual combat situation yet on TQ? No, both clicked on self destruct button and forgot about it. -------- .....
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.03.13 15:49:00 - [7] Originally by: LUKEC No, both clicked on log out button and forgot about it. Fixed
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.13 16:08:00 - [8] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 13/03/2007 16:16:37 Originally by: Pax Uranus So, have any Titans been killed in an actual combat situation yet on TQ? The Irony is that that so far, every Titan that has not been brave enough to have taken part in actual combat face to face has died. -- In Internet Explorer, You keep tabs on your browser. In Soviet Russia, browser keeps tabs on you
Christopher Dalran Gallente Deadly Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.13 16:30:00 - [9] Titans and Motherships have such gigantic mass i dont see any reason why they shouldnt have a minimum time between warps. It makes sense that it would take time to build up enough power to move such a large object around. Atleast if a titan/mothership knows he's going to be stuck somewhere for a while if he warps and does not have enough power to open a jump portal. On a second note why not have the jump portal opened by a titan or mothership stay open for a certain ammount of time allowing ANYONE in space to simply fly through the portal and end up at the destination. This would atleast give the attackers of the titan/mothership the option to persue the ship. It would be a risk however as the titan/ms [ilot could have an ambush waiting. Then again he could just be a solo pirate with alot of cash and a alt thats settup up cyno fields. ------------------------------- C.D's Formula for success ------------------------------- Credit Card = Game Time Card Gametime Card = ISK Therefore Credit Card = ISK.
mazzilliu Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.03.13 20:03:00 - [10] Edited by: mazzilliu on 13/03/2007 19:59:28 edit: oops meant to edit instead of quote THE RUG IS TOO FULL
Maeltstome	Posted - 2007.03.13 20:16:00 - [11] Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: Pax Uranus So, have any Titans been killed in an actual combat situation yet on TQ? No, both clicked on self destruct button and forgot about it. Or as usual bob found a way of fighting without actually taking a risk.
Gawain Hill	Posted - 2007.03.13 20:24:00 - [12] Originally by: Christopher Dalran Titans and Motherships have such gigantic mass i dont see any reason why they shouldnt have a minimum time between warps. It makes sense that it would take time to build up enough power to move such a large object around. Atleast if a titan/mothership knows he's going to be stuck somewhere for a while if he warps and does not have enough power to open a jump portal. On a second note why not have the jump portal opened by a titan or mothership stay open for a certain ammount of time allowing ANYONE in space to simply fly through the portal and end up at the destination. This would atleast give the attackers of the titan/mothership the option to persue the ship. It would be a risk however as the titan/ms [ilot could have an ambush waiting. Then again he could just be a solo pirate with alot of cash and a alt thats settup up cyno fields. such a thing already exsists it's called "cap" the minimum time is how long it takes to get enough cap and cap is the stuff that supplies the power to move the ship around
Bardi MecAuldnis Amarr Pirates of Destruction Union Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.13 20:34:00 - [13] Originally by: pastafarianist Solution: make smartbombs, web, scram, nos 'utility' modules, give all ship sizes a certain amount of 'utility slots', except cap ships...no more smartbombing = no more dead tacklers and bubbles. Solves the nos setups as well and relieves caldari a bit for pvp (no more medslots needed for tackling). /me puts on raving hobo uniform THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING! The government won't listen, the aliens stole my dog again, and that cat just stole my soul's leg. /hobo rant I think I started a thread about that a while ago. But no one likes me. --- Hey hey let's go kenka suru! Taisetsuna mono protect my balls! Boku ga warui so lets fighting! LET'S FIGHTING LOVE!!!
xHalcyonx Amarr EmpiresMod	Posted - 2007.03.13 20:48:00 - [14] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 13/03/2007 16:16:37 Originally by: Pax Uranus So, have any Titans been killed in an actual combat situation yet on TQ? The Irony is that that so far, every Titan that has not been brave enough to have taken part in actual combat face to face has died. Didn't Shrike get his titan into structure once?
Montero Black Omega Security GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.03.13 20:58:00 - [15] Firing a DD through a cyno isn't really face-to-face combat. More like face-to-pos. --------- Scrapheap Challenge
bork'ed	Posted - 2007.03.13 21:21:00 - [16] the thing i see that is mostly wrong with titans, is that they have the ablity to jump into system and while in system dd, then still have enough cap to jump back out. They should make it to where once a titan does the DD, it loses most of the cap and cannot jump right back out.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2007.03.13 21:38:00 - [17] Originally by: mazzilliu Consider the accepted tackling strategies on a mothership or a titan. There are only three ways currently of holding one of these down. bumping, dictor bubbling, and anchorable bubbling. If the guy has enough cap to cyno out then tough because none of those three will prevent jumping. Since when did jumpdrives work inside of bubbles? Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Amitabh Bachchan	Posted - 2007.03.13 21:43:00 - [18] Edited by: Amitabh Bachchan on 13/03/2007 21:40:13 Originally by: Montero Firing a DD through a cyno isn't really face-to-face combat. More like face-to-pos. But if people are so busy looking for cynofield, they tend to miss that the Titan in on the field of battle poping whole blobs without a cyno, as recently displayed in eve-files.
mazzilliu Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.03.13 22:44:00 - [19] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: mazzilliu Consider the accepted tackling strategies on a mothership or a titan. There are only three ways currently of holding one of these down. bumping, dictor bubbling, and anchorable bubbling. If the guy has enough cap to cyno out then tough because none of those three will prevent jumping. Since when did jumpdrives work inside of bubbles? since one of the LV titan pilots went to our home system and set up camp with a mobile large bubble, slowboated to the middle of the bubble, and doomsdayed a couple of nos BS and jumped out of the system right afterwards as our fleet warped in. THE RUG IS TOO FULL
Ansuru Starlancer The Phoenix Rising Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.14 05:14:00 - [20] Umm...doomsday would have killed the bubble. :p
Ernest Graefenberg Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.14 06:51:00 - [21] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: mazzilliu Consider the accepted tackling strategies on a mothership or a titan. There are only three ways currently of holding one of these down. bumping, dictor bubbling, and anchorable bubbling. If the guy has enough cap to cyno out then tough because none of those three will prevent jumping. Since when did jumpdrives work inside of bubbles? Since Kali at least. Catch up with the times. Works for any capital.
Phelan Lore Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.03.14 07:59:00 - [22] Originally by: Ansuru Starlancer Umm...doomsday would have killed the bubble. :p Apparently not... -
MrRookie Caldari Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.03.14 08:31:00 - [23] What would 10 apocs with neuts be like? Removing 40 k cap instantly and then every 24 second using T1 modules only Again requires alot of manpower though. Not that I know much about fighting Titans but shouldn't make it impossible to jump already after the first cycle? Sig removed. Please email us at [email protected] if you would like to know why. -Conuion Meow
mazzilliu Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.03.14 08:58:00 - [24] Edited by: mazzilliu on 14/03/2007 08:55:36 Originally by: MrRookie What would 10 apocs with neuts be like? Removing 40 k cap instantly and then every 24 second using T1 modules only Again requires alot of manpower though. Not that I know much about fighting Titans but shouldn't make it impossible to jump already after the first cycle? this isnt about taking out cap, this is about preventing warping Originally by: Ansuru Starlancer Umm...doomsday would have killed the bubble. :p no it didnt THE RUG IS TOO FULL
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.14 09:10:00 - [25] Originally by: Ansuru Starlancer Umm...doomsday would have killed the bubble. :p A small bubble maybe. Large bubbles have 40,000 shield and 60,000 armor.[whether or not they were boosted farther since the HP boost i dont know] They will tank any single doomdsay by a titan. If they get standard resistances it would require an EM[or thermal DD] and then Explosive DD in succession in order to take it down. Two kin DDs, two therm DDs, two explosive DDs, or two EM DDs would not get the job done. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"

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