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Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 339	Posted - 2016.08.20 12:16:01 - [1] - Quote Lenny Kravitz2 interview by Rhivre What do you think?
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2763	Posted - 2016.08.20 16:14:12 - [2] - Quote ... he just wants control of the market in New Eden and new ways of cashing out. He tries to spin his actions against the competition as altruistic and positiv for everybody. I'm my own NPC alt.
TheSmokingHertog Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium 420	Posted - 2016.08.21 14:22:38 - [3] - Quote Let it come, seems fun. "Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X "Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron -= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 339	Posted - 2016.08.23 19:48:00 - [4] - Quote Tipa Riot wrote: ... he just wants control of the market in New Eden and new ways of cashing out. He tries to spin his actions against the competition as altruistic and positiv for everybody. Do you think he'll be selling "trading permits"? When (and I'm not saying "if") it becomes apparent, his reputation losses would vastly exceed any isk profits he might get. I mean, I dont mind if casinos were torn apart by an angry mob, but I think Lenny understands well how fragile is his business. On the other hand, the whole "spread out markets" thing sounds so naive... It cannot work and it will not work. In real world we see concentration of trade and, if anything, only political ambitions work against this trend. Lenny's plan is not based on egos of ingame politicians, instead he seems to dislike them. Unless CCP breaks globalization by breaking jump freighters, there will be an economical reason to buy in Jita. Even with CODE and other suicide squads people are using this central hub and of course no single player can stop this, no matter how rich he is.
Rhivre TarNec Invisible Exchequer 932	Posted - 2016.08.23 20:05:50 - [5] - Quote Skia Aumer wrote: Tipa Riot wrote: ... he just wants control of the market in New Eden and new ways of cashing out. He tries to spin his actions against the competition as altruistic and positiv for everybody. Do you think he'll be selling "trading permits"? When (and I'm not saying "if") it becomes apparent, his reputation losses would vastly exceed any isk profits he might get. I mean, I dont mind if casinos were torn apart by an angry mob, but I think Lenny understands well how fragile is his business. On the other hand, the whole "spread out markets" thing sounds so naive... It cannot work and it will not work. In real world we see concentration of trade and, if anything, only political ambitions work against this trend. Lenny's plan is not based on egos of ingame politicians, instead he seems to dislike them. Unless CCP breaks globalization by breaking jump freighters, there will be an economical reason to buy in Jita. Even with CODE and other suicide squads people are using this central hub and of course no single player can stop this, no matter how rich he is. This was one of my points tbh, one of the answers Lenny gave on reddit was that he wasnt trying to get rid of the main trade hubs, so, for me, the two statements dont match. The "I want to create peripheral hubs to service people in LS and NS" does not go along with "I am blowing up the Fortizars in The Forge". My suspicion is that he wants the HS Fortizar owners to come in and work with him on the other hubs (and, I think he said as much): Quote: TMC: You have also said on reddit that if someone builds Fortizars in the outer areas of eve, you will stop your attacks on the Fortizars, to avoid any confusion in this, is this aimed at the current Fortizar owners in the forge, or anyone who wishes to build a remote region hub? LK: It is aimed at anyone who wishes to do so. The current Fortizar owners are in the best position to do so but many do not seem to be keen on that idea. I also stated that if this does not gain much traction, I will set it up myself and do so in a way that it will be managed and controlled by others and overseen by Chribba (so that there is complete trust in the operation). So, from that, it reads more like a coercion than anything else. As I said (I think) on Friday, if someone wants to go "I am going to blow up all the fortizars, because, well...I can", thats one thing, but, trying to put an "I am doing it for the good of Eve" angle on it is weird. I have nothing inherently against more mini hubs in Eve, I have spent enough time myself trading in various HS mini-hubs, and, more locations to buy and sell from is always good, but, Jita is the Walmart or cash and carry of Eve, as are the other main hubs. You go in there, buy stuff cheap, ship it out, sell for more, or, as some do, scour the universe for underpriced stuff (because it doesnt move at its current location), move it into jita, sell it at a markup. This will continue regardless of whether there are a load of other locations being created for local customers, you need a central location (or 4) where you can reliably restock anything you want. Where those locations are may change over time, but there will always be distribution locations. I am going to write an "In defense of trade hubs" at some point :) Fluffy Bunny Pic!
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2772	Posted - 2016.08.23 21:26:26 - [6] - Quote Lenny is somebody with too much ISK, obtained from exploiting gambling addicts utilizing CCP's brand... and also he admits to sit on tons of stuff he can't sell without crashing the market ... more passive ISK ...he does not like the offshoring ... why? Because the broker fee is not going yet to his wallet (he wants to take 1% fee)? Still he has too much ISK ... Why the hell does he want more ISK??? I'm my own NPC alt.
Bad Bobby Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust 1468	Posted - 2016.08.24 05:29:13 - [7] - Quote Tipa Riot wrote: Lenny is somebody with too much ISK, obtained from exploiting gambling addicts utilizing CCP's brand... and also he admits to sit on tons of stuff he can't sell without crashing the market ... more passive ISK ...he does not like the offshoring ... why? Because the broker fee is not going yet to his wallet (he wants to take 1% fee)? Still he has too much ISK ... Why the hell does he want more ISK??? My guess would be he's seeking power, not ISK.
Careby 287	Posted - 2016.08.24 12:53:11 - [8] - Quote I can imagine a lot of different tactics that could make sense and be profitable. So far, I don't see any profitability in paying mercs to play whack-a-mole with citadels. A lot of traders are put off by the instability of the perimeter citadel situation, but I would guess most of them choose jita broker fees over low volume hinterland trading. What is missing in perimeter is the stable market citadel with a viable defense fleet that the public will trust. Make it a keepstar just for appearances. Sell membership to trader access lists - 1% broker fees for the public, .5% for silver members, .1% for gold, 0% for the platinum club. Use your fleet to keep the competition out and to defend your baby. Offshoring works. Citadel trading works. Citadel defense so far has been lackluster.
Rhivre TarNec Invisible Exchequer 934	Posted - 2016.08.24 13:38:59 - [9] - Quote Careby wrote: I can imagine a lot of different tactics that could make sense and be profitable. So far, I don't see any profitability in paying mercs to play whack-a-mole with citadels. A lot of traders are put off by the instability of the perimeter citadel situation, but I would guess most of them choose jita broker fees over low volume hinterland trading. What is missing in perimeter is the stable market citadel with a viable defense fleet that the public will trust. Make it a keepstar just for appearances. Sell membership to trader access lists - 1% broker fees for the public, .5% for silver members, .1% for gold, 0% for the platinum club. Use your fleet to keep the competition out and to defend your baby. Offshoring works. Citadel trading works. Citadel defense so far has been lackluster. Well, so far 2 have been attacked, 1 died, and one is fully repped. Fluffy Bunny Pic!
Alexi Stokov State War Academy Caldari State 135	Posted - 2016.08.24 17:59:58 - [10] - Quote Rhivre wrote: Careby wrote: I can imagine a lot of different tactics that could make sense and be profitable. So far, I don't see any profitability in paying mercs to play whack-a-mole with citadels. A lot of traders are put off by the instability of the perimeter citadel situation, but I would guess most of them choose jita broker fees over low volume hinterland trading. What is missing in perimeter is the stable market citadel with a viable defense fleet that the public will trust. Make it a keepstar just for appearances. Sell membership to trader access lists - 1% broker fees for the public, .5% for silver members, .1% for gold, 0% for the platinum club. Use your fleet to keep the competition out and to defend your baby. Offshoring works. Citadel trading works. Citadel defense so far has been lackluster. Well, so far 2 have been attacked, 1 died, and one is fully repped. I used the one that died

Toobo Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium 70	Posted - 2016.08.24 23:11:31 - [11] - Quote This is what I consistently advice to new traders - ride on the big boys doing big things. You may not agree with what Lenny's doing or even trust his explanations or whatever, but he's funding stuff that results in destruction and market reactions (minor or major, whatever it may be). You interpret the situation as you wish, positive or negative or whatever, but when there is focused & funded destruction with purpose, and a deep pocket pushing for certain market agenda - there shall be market opportunity. It's good times. Toobo is a lucky talisman. Try Toobo's lucky referral link at the awesome iwantisk website and have a great time http://www.iwantisk.com/?ref=1216023697 Remeber - you win by luck and lose by luck. Don't go crazy. ;)
Roedyn Dark-Rising Wrecking Machine. 4	Posted - 2016.08.26 03:17:42 - [12] - Quote I was disappointed in the very simple terms that he viewed the market. He failed to see the inter connectivity of it all. In the end, if he pursues this crusade then I imagine he will face the strongest force in all of New Eden - High Sec Apathy. Ultimately, people don't care how stuff gets to places where you can buy them. What matters is that they are available in the quantities and variations that they need. It will take a long time to break the Jita mentality. You cannot break an institution like Jita just because you think you can will it to happen.
Sabriz Adoudel Move along there is nothing here 5886	Posted - 2016.08.26 10:27:58 - [13] - Quote There's been a fair few Fortizars shut down near Dodixie, and new ones keep popping up. This doesn't bother me. I'll continue to offshore at other people's citadels and they can have a pittance for the service. Just set up ten billion in buy orders from the new Fortizar, which nets the builder a cool 20 million ISK - a little over one one-thousandth of their costs back. They need another eleven trillion in buy orders to be placed to get ahead at all. I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
Rhivre TarNec Invisible Exchequer 934	Posted - 2016.08.26 13:21:20 - [14] - Quote Sabriz Adoudel wrote: There's been a fair few Fortizars shut down near Dodixie, and new ones keep popping up. This doesn't bother me. I'll continue to offshore at other people's citadels and they can have a pittance for the service. Just set up ten billion in buy orders from the new Fortizar, which nets the builder a cool 20 million ISK - a little over one one-thousandth of their costs back. They need another eleven trillion in buy orders to be placed to get ahead at all. The way to get ahead is to use your own citadel to place buy orders, saving yourself the taxes. the cost of a citadel vs the amount you save in taxes is able to be recouped (well, maybe not in Dixie, but in jita definitely), so, it is at worst a zero sum game for them. Fluffy Bunny Pic!
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2775	Posted - 2016.08.26 13:53:53 - [15] - Quote Rhivre wrote: Sabriz Adoudel wrote: There's been a fair few Fortizars shut down near Dodixie, and new ones keep popping up. This doesn't bother me. I'll continue to offshore at other people's citadels and they can have a pittance for the service. Just set up ten billion in buy orders from the new Fortizar, which nets the builder a cool 20 million ISK - a little over one one-thousandth of their costs back. They need another eleven trillion in buy orders to be placed to get ahead at all. The way to get ahead is to use your own citadel to place buy orders, saving yourself the taxes. the cost of a citadel vs the amount you save in taxes is able to be recouped (well, maybe not in Dixie, but in jita definitely), so, it is at worst a zero sum game for them. If Lenny's crusade is executed seriously, it means you have to replace your Fortizar every week, not sure if this really pays off ... I'm my own NPC alt.
Scotsman Howard S0utherN Comfort Test Alliance Please Ignore 151	Posted - 2016.08.26 18:55:30 - [16] - Quote My personal bet is the idea of driving out the markets to 2nd markets is a cover and all he wants is to maintain the only reliably safe citadel in the major hubs. If people keep bouncing between them and have to relist their orders, they will eventually be willing to pay the 1% just to stay in place.
Mr Crowley Bagel and Lox 0	Posted - 2016.09.20 18:25:26 - [17] - Quote Skia Aumer wrote: Tipa Riot wrote: ... he just wants control of the market in New Eden and new ways of cashing out. He tries to spin his actions against the competition as altruistic and positiv for everybody. Do you think he'll be selling "trading permits"? When (and I'm not saying "if") it becomes apparent, his reputation losses would vastly exceed any isk profits he might get. I mean, I dont mind if casinos were torn apart by an angry mob, but I think Lenny understands well how fragile is his business. On the other hand, the whole "spread out markets" thing sounds so naive... It cannot work and it will not work. In real world we see concentration of trade and, if anything, only political ambitions work against this trend. Lenny's plan is not based on egos of ingame politicians, instead he seems to dislike them. Unless CCP breaks globalization by breaking jump freighters, there will be an economical reason to buy in Jita. Even with CODE and other suicide squads people are using this central hub and of course no single player can stop this, no matter how rich he is. Newly returned to eve and I agree totally. It's obvious that trade has been restricted to major hubs. Outer regions are experiencing a deficit of mins and items but you cannot sell anything unless you drop the price to the major hubs. People are literally hauling everything to the hubs to buy and sell. The JF are a HUGE problem, and the root of the problem is the fuel consumption to jump. It's ludicrous that you can jump from catch to jita for 35million! That should be a 300-500million round trip. Additionally the concentration has been caused by nimble ships and warp to 0 jumping. It frankly does not take much time at all to get to a major hub from anywhere. I hate to say this one. There is way to much high security. It is far to easy to travel from region to region. It should be RISKY to haul your stuff 12 jumps to sell. It should be RISKY to travel and buy mods etc. there is none of that. Will eve devolve to despotism and blockades? Yep. People will think twice about traveling from one region to another. Suddenly it might be worth it to buy from a local. In my opinion all the races need to have central hubs spread out more. There should be as much 0.0 in between these hubs as around them.
Alexi Stokov State War Academy Caldari State 138	Posted - 2016.09.20 23:06:05 - [18] - Quote I find it hard to believe that hub volume is decreasing and simply moving to Jita. I would expect it is simply dying. I do not see how increasing risk will make Hek Rens Ours etc suddenly like they used to be as the lanes have not changed. If it is made even harder to travel between regions, I would expect hubs to shrink further.
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 342	Posted - 2016.09.21 16:32:04 - [19] - Quote I've got a question. If PLEX becomes locally-consumable, how will it change markets? (Right now, you can consume it remotely from "Assets".)
Rivr Luzade Viziam Amarr Empire 2755	Posted - 2016.09.27 12:56:17 - [20] - Quote They are killing the market, not dispersing it. In particular in Null sec but also Low sec, most markets will simply vanish once outposts are gone and taxes in NPC stations increased to an unhealthy level. UI Improvement Collective My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 344	Posted - 2016.09.27 13:58:14 - [21] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: They are killing the market, not dispersing it. In particular in Null sec but also Low sec, most markets will simply vanish once outposts are gone and taxes in NPC stations increased to an unhealthy level. I seed some items in NPC nullsec, and brokers fee is not a problem at all. Demand is, and it just cannot grow organically. Because when some traffic emerges, it is immediately moderated by camps. The only possible option is trading in alliance home systems. Alliances form around strong leaders and good fleetcoms that choose to be independent, rather than be a part of some bigger alliance. It means that nullsec economy is driven by political landscape, and not much else affects it. EDIT: Except for light-weight items like PLEX and skill injectors. If those were traded locally, it would give traders enough incentive to open shops next door. But I'm not sure, if those shops would tend to evolve into mini-hubs, or it's just all in my head.
Rivr Luzade Viziam Amarr Empire 2756	Posted - 2016.09.28 08:27:10 - [22] - Quote Skia Aumer wrote: I seed some items in NPC nullsec, and brokers fee is not a problem at all. Demand is, and it just cannot grow organically. They are not yet. Remember that CCP will increase them further with one of the coming releases. You can't have a Fortizar in Curse or Stain, let alone Syndicate or Great Wildlands, if you are not part of a big group. You will just get stomped into the ground. once people notice you. And even if you manged to get one up and running publicly, the fairly low demand (even worse in Sov Null) will make your profits vanish due to the horrendous fuel cost. I've seen that happening on Deklein already. A couple of corps in my alliance put up 4 Fortizars and market services. 2 markets were shut down shortly after, others are heavily subsidized by the corps' other incomes. Personally, I produce a small variety of things in Dek that others and I need for my ratting. Right now, I can put that stuff up on the market in my or a closeby outpost. That won't be possible in the mid-term future because the closest Fortizar that was still having a market running was 10 jumps away and staging is 20 jumps from my preferred area of residence. And this is for a rather big alliance. Imagine smaller groups, or NPC Null sec with the myriad of small groups that cannot allow other groups to dock in their staging citadel. Citadel market with all the increasing taxes to NPC stations are just crap, even just a couple of jumps away from the Big 4 Hubs. UI Improvement Collective My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 345	Posted - 2016.10.03 19:18:43 - [23] - Quote Meanwhile, the story is unfolding. Here is Lenny discussing further plans on Reddit. Does anyone have information about any citadels anchored as a part of this initiative? Which regions are they in? What alliance banners do they use?
Careby 293	Posted - 2016.10.04 14:51:31 - [24] - Quote Skia Aumer wrote: ...Does anyone have information about any citadels anchored as a part of this initiative? Which regions are they in? What alliance banners do they use?... I'm sure more information will be forthcoming. I have found four structures so far: Aunenen - Waypoint Station - Keepstar with market service Auner - Waypoint Station - Fortizar with market service Ignoitton - Waypoint Station - Fortizar with market service Vaajaita - Waypoint Station - Fortizar with no market All four are owned by corporation New Eden Trading Company HQ (WTO1), Alliance New Eden Trading Company (WTO). As I understand it, the corp and alliance are run by alts of Chribba.
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2976	Posted - 2016.10.04 15:06:59 - [25] - Quote I'm pretty confident the plan of decentralized market hubs will not unfold as expected. However the planned public Titan bridge network has real potential. I'm my own NPC alt.

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire 15646	Posted - 2016.10.04 19:41:47 - [26] - Quote Careby wrote: Skia Aumer wrote: ...Does anyone have information about any citadels anchored as a part of this initiative? Which regions are they in? What alliance banners do they use?... I'm sure more information will be forthcoming. I have found four structures so far: Aunenen - Waypoint Station - Keepstar with market service Auner - Waypoint Station - Fortizar with market service Ignoitton - Waypoint Station - Fortizar with market service Vaajaita - Waypoint Station - Fortizar with no market All four are owned by corporation New Eden Trading Company HQ (WTO1), Alliance New Eden Trading Company (WTO). As I understand it, the corp and alliance are run by alts of Chribba. I can confirm that the listed Citadels are indeed held by my alt. /c GÿàGÿàGÿà Secure 3rd party service GÿàGÿàGÿà Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar' Twitter @Chribba

goodlady Smith Caldari Provisions Caldari State 111	Posted - 2016.10.04 23:25:02 - [27] - Quote Maybe a separate spin is the influence - if you own the market should people attack your assets you - simply close the market to them making their war difficult. It's like HS ganking your opponents haulers stopping them from resupplying Or it drives up competition and the next war is based on trade hubs where IWI / Lenny is more established and he gets to sell off all his excess stock =D Please like my posts it makes me feel better about the time I spend on the forums WTS... Smiles
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2976	Posted - 2016.10.05 17:04:51 - [28] - Quote Some thoughts ... ... what is the consequence and desire of trade agreements, globalization and economic integration between nations in RL? Peace! The interaction of players and their organisations in New Eden do have similarities to RL because the actors are the same, humans. So what would happen if you put trade mechanics into the hands of players? I'm my own NPC alt.
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 355	Posted - 2016.10.05 17:36:07 - [29] - Quote Tipa Riot wrote: Some thoughts ... ... what is the consequence and desire of trade agreements, globalization and economic integration between nations in RL? Peace! The interaction of players and their organisations in New Eden do have similarities to RL because the actors are the same, humans. So what would happen if you put trade mechanics into the hands of players? A new Cold War? Like the one starting IRL right now? The goals of real-life WTO and similar organizations have nothing to do with peace, unfortunately. They are the tools of power projection of rich minority intended to establish their rules throughout the planet. Turning back to EVE, this might be the same goal, who knows. The big difference is that rich people of EVE as of now have very little influence. They just dont have the tools the real world provides: EVE does not have a market for capital (not capital ship, but rather the 'capitalist' capital). No banking, no shares, no stock exchange, nothing. So whatever Lenny is doing, it is an interesting thing, cause he's trying to make his sizable capital work.
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 355	Posted - 2016.10.05 17:50:25 - [30] - Quote Thanks to Rhivre for another quality article. Also, we have an economic report for September, with a new interesting graph. It gives us some firm numbers regarding the market fees, and they are indeed quite substantial: almost a trillion goes to citadel owners per month. And there is 10x as much still payed to NPC. Something worth investing in, I suppose? ;-)



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