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korrey Taurus Inc	Posted - 2007.03.14 20:31:00 - [1] Edited by: korrey on 14/03/2007 20:29:59 Ill make it simple. No other HAC loses a tanking slot besides the Sac. Zealot +1 low slots from the Omen Vagabond +1 med slot and low slots Ishtar +0 slots Cerberus +2 low slots +0 mid slots Munin +0 low or med slots Deimos +1 low slots Sacrilege -1 low slots +1 mid (Just a side note, you also lose a turret hardpoint) Now normally I would say ok its a khanid shield tanked ship. Of course it gets a mid slot bonus. But no one shield tanks the sac and knowing it has an armor resistances bonus, why on earth would they drop one of its main tanking slots for a mid slot? Not that mid slots are bad, but tbh I would rather have another low slot than a mid slot. Maybe you could get your damage to somewhat 'noticeable' while still retaining your tank. Just my thoughts.. ----------- 24.01.06 Small patch that addresses some minor balancing issues 1) All minmatar pilots have been deleted
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.03.14 20:34:00 - [2] k --- Originally by: Foopadoo Hell hath no fury like an internet nerd scorned.
korrey Taurus Inc	Posted - 2007.03.14 20:35:00 - [3] Originally by: Marquis Dean k Right I probably didnt mention why I wrote this...I want my low slot and possibly my fifth turret back ----------- 24.01.06 Small patch that addresses some minor balancing issues 1) All minmatar pilots have been deleted
jbob2000 Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.14 20:37:00 - [4] I'm pretty sure the ishtar gains some slots. ________________________________ KIA Recruitment
Jarjar Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.03.14 20:42:00 - [5] Edited by: Jarjar on 14/03/2007 20:38:38 Originally by: jbob2000 I'm pretty sure the ishtar gains some slots. Some, yes. Three Vexor is 5-3-4, Ishtar 5-5-5. It does lose a turret however. Edit: Spelling. "In Communist China ISK buys YOU!!" - random bio
Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.14 20:52:00 - [6] Ill keep my 4 mids, ktx
king jks New Age Solutions New Age Solutions Amalgamated	Posted - 2007.03.14 20:54:00 - [7] BOOST AMARR! Oh wait.. ------------------------
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.03.14 20:58:00 - [8] Originally by: korrey Originally by: Marquis Dean k Right I probably didnt mention why I wrote this...I want my low slot and possibly my fifth turret back Alot of people would like a lot of things to change about alot of ships. What you're doing is trying to make the Sacriledge into a black Maller shaped Zealot. You need to look at it's strengths. The fact is that, like the Eagle, it's not a great all round ship. It has a great tank but that's about it, and yeah, it doesn't have enough slots to make it a solopwnmobile. But it is this: extremely cheap. For cost vs. effectiveness the Sacriledge is the best heavy-tackler in the game, having alot of midslots to tackle, a fantastic tank, and it doesn't need dps for that which is good because it has none. But you use a Sacriledge as a bait ship and snare a few BS by a gate, then the rest of your camp comes through and that Sacriledge will still be there, which you can't say for almost any other ship out there. When i'm skilled for it (12d, 7h, 32m), that's exactly what i'll use it for, with a full-gank Raven to deal the pain. --- Originally by: Foopadoo Hell hath no fury like an internet nerd scorned.
korrey Taurus Inc	Posted - 2007.03.14 21:03:00 - [9] Yes you use it as a heavy tackler. The problem with that is, people ignore you, kill your raven buddy then come back to finish you. No smart pilot locks a sacrilege first, they know most likely it will tank them for a long time. What does this mean in the head of the pilot? It means go for the damage dealers. And they generally do. Heavy tackling is nice, when you have a gang to do the damage. But when your gang is finished and its just you, what then? Tank them for 5-10-20 minutes then get blobbed. Wonderful. My point, if the sac had even a slight dps boost in the form of another low slot (heatsink II) it would not be anywhere near the zealots. But it would make it noticeable to where people might possibly lock the sac first, like it is supposed to be. ----------- 24.01.06 Small patch that addresses some minor balancing issues 1) All minmatar pilots have been deleted
Kharriga Caldari Cry Me A River Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.14 21:10:00 - [10] Edited by: Kharriga on 14/03/2007 21:09:36 [me alt beein amarr pilot i was about to whine about them... but then i realised id rather have that midslot than low anyway so... - "I'm scissors. Paper is fine. Nerf rock!"
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.03.14 21:11:00 - [11] If your gang is dead and you have a 100 points of scram on you, what difference does it make if you last 20 minutes or 20 seconds? The Sacriledge can snare something and survive it's prey's lashings until backup arrives. That's what a tackler does. I don't understand what it is you want. You can't just have the Sac given another low slot with it taking a hit elsewhere. --- Originally by: Foopadoo Hell hath no fury like an internet nerd scorned.
bldyannoyed Standard Operations Building Services	Posted - 2007.03.14 21:32:00 - [12] Sac's aint that bad solo. I manged to fit: 4 Heavy Pulse II's, 2 assault II's AB II, injector, web, scram 2x MAR II, reactive therm II, EANM II and heat sink II Rigs = Ancillary current router and aux nano pump Maybe not stellar DPS but not a bad gank/tank/tackle combo if you ask me
Stingwray	Posted - 2007.03.14 21:52:00 - [13] What is more is that the Sac "has" an armor resist bonus for cruiser level, which means as cruiser 5 is needed it is included in the stats you see on the attributes page, and yet the zealot without this bonus has the same resists as the Sac, which means the sac only has 3 bonuses.
Buzzmong Gallente 5punkorp	Posted - 2007.03.14 22:12:00 - [14] Originally by: Stingwray What is more is that the Sac "has" an armor resist bonus for cruiser level, which means as cruiser 5 is needed it is included in the stats you see on the attributes page, and yet the zealot without this bonus has the same resists as the Sac, which means the sac only has 3 bonuses. Ching ching, we have a winner. Although, does that mean the sac is under powered? or the zealot is...overpowered? (in regards to tankage ofc, not shooty shooty pew pew.) --------------------------------- Go Web! Go!
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.14 22:14:00 - [15] Originally by: Stingwray What is more is that the Sac "has" an armor resist bonus for cruiser level, which means as cruiser 5 is needed it is included in the stats you see on the attributes page, and yet the zealot without this bonus has the same resists as the Sac, which means the sac only has 3 bonuses. No, the Sac has 25% better resistances accross the board. The only bonus that is "factored in" is the AF bonus. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
korrey Taurus Inc	Posted - 2007.03.14 22:28:00 - [16] Originally by: Marquis Dean If your gang is dead and you have a 100 points of scram on you, what difference does it make if you last 20 minutes or 20 seconds? The Sacriledge can snare something and survive it's prey's lashings until backup arrives. That's what a tackler does. I don't understand what it is you want. You can't just have the Sac given another low slot with it taking a hit elsewhere. The Sacrilege is a cruiser, the Absolution tanks better than it. We both know that in a gang over 10 people with cruisers/bc's there is no chance for the sac to wait for reinforcements. As it stands the sac is just a timebomb waiting to happen. Your gang dies first, then you die...slowly. But not nearly enough time for reinforcements to come. I want to get a low slot back, with that low slot you could add a plate and the tank would be superb to do what it does best, wait for reinforcements. With 1 extra low slot you could last another 5 minutes of tanking, now that would be enough time to call for help. ----------- 24.01.06 Small patch that addresses some minor balancing issues 1) All minmatar pilots have been deleted
korrey Taurus Inc	Posted - 2007.03.14 22:29:00 - [17] Edited by: korrey on 14/03/2007 22:25:18 Originally by: Stingwray What is more is that the Sac "has" an armor resist bonus for cruiser level, which means as cruiser 5 is needed it is included in the stats you see on the attributes page, and yet the zealot without this bonus has the same resists as the Sac, which means the sac only has 3 bonuses. Hmm...I smell someone who doesnt fly Sac's Wrong, the bonuses are not applied until after you step in the ship itself. Ah...like 2 posters above me said. ----------- 24.01.06 Small patch that addresses some minor balancing issues 1) All minmatar pilots have been deleted
Fox20 The Hand Trade Alliance FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.15 10:44:00 - [18] Originally by: korrey Originally by: Marquis Dean If your gang is dead and you have a 100 points of scram on you, what difference does it make if you last 20 minutes or 20 seconds? The Sacriledge can snare something and survive it's prey's lashings until backup arrives. That's what a tackler does. I don't understand what it is you want. You can't just have the Sac given another low slot with it taking a hit elsewhere. The Sacrilege is a cruiser, the Absolution tanks better than it. We both know that in a gang over 10 people with cruisers/bc's there is no chance for the sac to wait for reinforcements. As it stands the sac is just a timebomb waiting to happen. Your gang dies first, then you die...slowly. But not nearly enough time for reinforcements to come. I want to get a low slot back, with that low slot you could add a plate and the tank would be superb to do what it does best, wait for reinforcements. With 1 extra low slot you could last another 5 minutes of tanking, now that would be enough time to call for help. Sorry but : 1) The absolution will tank better because its a command ship not a HaC 2)the SaC has a awesome tank - and why do you need to wait for "reinforcements" ? 3) All HaC's eventually die when they com under enough firepower
grappler Divine Retribution	Posted - 2007.03.15 10:52:00 - [19] its actually a really good ship, you can fit it out to do great damage or asuper tanker. Had one setup with a tank that took 10 + ships several minutes to kill. with my solo setup ther wasnt anything I couldnt kill 1 vs 1 (no you cant have my setup) but it would take a while to do. dont worry about mising a low slot its got enough resists that you dont need it
korrey Taurus Inc	Posted - 2007.03.15 11:29:00 - [20] Originally by: Fox20 Originally by: korrey Originally by: Marquis Dean If your gang is dead and you have a 100 points of scram on you, what difference does it make if you last 20 minutes or 20 seconds? The Sacriledge can snare something and survive it's prey's lashings until backup arrives. That's what a tackler does. I don't understand what it is you want. You can't just have the Sac given another low slot with it taking a hit elsewhere. The Sacrilege is a cruiser, the Absolution tanks better than it. We both know that in a gang over 10 people with cruisers/bc's there is no chance for the sac to wait for reinforcements. As it stands the sac is just a timebomb waiting to happen. Your gang dies first, then you die...slowly. But not nearly enough time for reinforcements to come. I want to get a low slot back, with that low slot you could add a plate and the tank would be superb to do what it does best, wait for reinforcements. With 1 extra low slot you could last another 5 minutes of tanking, now that would be enough time to call for help. Sorry but : 1) The absolution will tank better because its a command ship not a HaC 2)the SaC has a awesome tank - and why do you need to wait for "reinforcements" ? 3) All HaC's eventually die when they com under enough firepower Thats all good and well, but most other HAC's at least take someone down with them... ----------- 24.01.06 Small patch that addresses some minor balancing issues 1) All minmatar pilots have been deleted
korrey Taurus Inc	Posted - 2007.03.15 11:32:00 - [21] Originally by: grappler its actually a really good ship, you can fit it out to do great damage or asuper tanker. Had one setup with a tank that took 10 + ships several minutes to kill. with my solo setup ther wasnt anything I couldnt kill 1 vs 1 (no you cant have my setup) but it would take a while to do. dont worry about mising a low slot its got enough resists that you dont need it Your setup probably consisted of many med nos and small guns. Drain their tank and finish them with small guns. Nothing new. But also nothing that is very versatile and ignores two bonuses. ----------- 24.01.06 Small patch that addresses some minor balancing issues 1) All minmatar pilots have been deleted
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.03.15 12:09:00 - [22] Originally by: korrey Originally by: Fox20 Originally by: korrey Originally by: Marquis Dean If your gang is dead and you have a 100 points of scram on you, what difference does it make if you last 20 minutes or 20 seconds? The Sacriledge can snare something and survive it's prey's lashings until backup arrives. That's what a tackler does. I don't understand what it is you want. You can't just have the Sac given another low slot with it taking a hit elsewhere. The Sacrilege is a cruiser, the Absolution tanks better than it. We both know that in a gang over 10 people with cruisers/bc's there is no chance for the sac to wait for reinforcements. As it stands the sac is just a timebomb waiting to happen. Your gang dies first, then you die...slowly. But not nearly enough time for reinforcements to come. I want to get a low slot back, with that low slot you could add a plate and the tank would be superb to do what it does best, wait for reinforcements. With 1 extra low slot you could last another 5 minutes of tanking, now that would be enough time to call for help. Sorry but : 1) The absolution will tank better because its a command ship not a HaC 2)the SaC has a awesome tank - and why do you need to wait for "reinforcements" ? 3) All HaC's eventually die when they com under enough firepower Thats all good and well, but most other HAC's at least take someone down with them... Take a different kind class of ship, e.g: a Recon. Rooks can sit out at 150km and jam the hell out of several targets, it doesn't need to 'take anyone with them' for it to be effective. You have to understand that the Sacriledge fulfulls a role in a gang, and it does it very well in my opinion. If you want a solo ship, you should use a Zealot, or something Minmatar or possibly Gallente. The Sacriledge is never going to be as good solo as other HACs in the same way that a lone Scorpion is going to struggle to kill any other BS solo. --- Originally by: Foopadoo Hell hath no fury like an internet nerd scorned.
Scordite	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:05:00 - [23] If you swap a mid for a low, it loses room for injector, which cripples the tank. No thanks. Also, try playing around with pg rigs and nos/neuts. That's how you make a sacri a threat that needs dealing with. Of course, right now a nanocurse is better for the job, but once general speed nerf comes to get nanobs back in line, sacri will get it's niche use back. Of course, by that time, khanid mk2 might have come into effect as well, sacri might have 5 launcher slots with rof, missile velocity, armor resist, which at the same time makes it a viable solo boat, the ultimate HAM platform. ----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead.
Borasao	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:27:00 - [24] Yeah, it's cheap because it isn't that good. Most of the posts about Sacrileges I've seen talk about fitting them for heavy tackling. The problem with them even in that role was already mentioned a few posts up (leave the Sac alone, kill the other stuff, then worry about the Sac). It does make a nice complex tanker, though
Almarez	Posted - 2007.03.15 20:22:00 - [25] I think you are half right. I would definitely like the last low slot. I don't want another turret though, I want 4/5 missle launcher slots.
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.03.15 20:27:00 - [26] Originally by: Borasao Yeah, it's cheap because it isn't that good. Most of the posts about Sacrileges I've seen talk about fitting them for heavy tackling. The problem with them even in that role was already mentioned a few posts up (leave the Sac alone, kill the other stuff, then worry about the Sac). It does make a nice complex tanker, though Oh my God what's wrong with you people. Tacklers don't need to deal damage! So a pirate pins down a Hyperion in a belt with a Malediction, how much damage is that Malediction going to be pumping out!? I expect the Hyp's drones can tank him ffs. But his job is to hold the Hyp there until the gank squad arrives. The difference between a Mal and a Sacri is that one uses speed to survive, the other uses high armor resists. Am I talking to myself or is every else in this thread desperately stupid? --- Originally by: Foopadoo Hell hath no fury like an internet nerd scorned.
korrey Taurus Inc	Posted - 2007.03.15 20:36:00 - [27] Originally by: Marquis Dean Originally by: Borasao Yeah, it's cheap because it isn't that good. Most of the posts about Sacrileges I've seen talk about fitting them for heavy tackling. The problem with them even in that role was already mentioned a few posts up (leave the Sac alone, kill the other stuff, then worry about the Sac). It does make a nice complex tanker, though Oh my God what's wrong with you people. Tacklers don't need to deal damage! So a pirate pins down a Hyperion in a belt with a Malediction, how much damage is that Malediction going to be pumping out!? I expect the Hyp's drones can tank him ffs. But his job is to hold the Hyp there until the gank squad arrives. The difference between a Mal and a Sacri is that one uses speed to survive, the other uses high armor resists. Am I talking to myself or is every else in this thread desperately stupid? You wont fully understand until you can hop in one yourself mate. I think people that have been flying this ship for 6 months + know whats wrong with it. Heres whats wrong with it. Yes it makes a nice heavy tackler IF your gang is winning. Otherwise your screwed. And no, your gang wont be winning all the time. If your gang is killed, which will be about half the time, you will be also. Tackling is only useful to some extent..."Wow look ma, ive got a tackler no one shoots at." ----------- 24.01.06 Small patch that addresses some minor balancing issues 1) All minmatar pilots have been deleted
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.03.15 20:48:00 - [28] Edited by: Marquis Dean on 15/03/2007 20:46:01 Originally by: korrey Heres whats wrong with it. Yes it makes a nice heavy tackler IF your gang is winning. Otherwise your screwed. And no, your gang wont be winning all the time. If your gang is killed, which will be about half the time, you will be also. Tackling is only useful to some extent..."Wow look ma, ive got a tackler no one shoots at." And yet if you use another ship for tackling, and your gang loses, that ship will be ok? I really don't understand what your problem with the Sacriledge is. As far as I can see, you want another Zealot. And no tackling is not always what is required. In the same way that jamming isn't always needed, and do you know what I do when the gang doesn't need a Scorpion? I don't fly a Scorpion. So if the gang you're with is all set for tacklers, just get in a Harbinger ffs. This thread is like me crying about how the Scorpion has no dps and lacks the grid/shield hp to fit a good tank. What do you think would happen if I posted that? --- Originally by: Foopadoo Hell hath no fury like an internet nerd scorned.
Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.15 20:53:00 - [29] Look, this is a useless discussion. Yes, its a great tackler. Unless you actually know what you're doing, in which case an Interceptor is better in every situation. What are you gonna do in your Sacr if your target is over 20km away from you when you warp in? Right, watch him warp. An Interceptor will close the distance, lock faster, and doesnt need to tank, because nothing can kill it. Yes, it's a decent tank. Which doesnt mean jack sht when you consider that it cant kill anything solo. Ofcourse, you can tank while your buddy kills...Except, you're not shooting NPCs with 0 intelligence, you're shooting players who will kill your buddy first then laugh at you. Or kill you anyway. Yes, it's cheap. You know why? Because it blows chunks. It's cheap, because noone wants one. Noone wants one, because it's just not very good. Name any use for the Sacrilege and i will name a ship that can do it better.
Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.15 20:58:00 - [30] It doesnt need a lowslot, it doesnt add a damn thing to it. It needs a complete redesign. Khanid Mk2, f.e.

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