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Dirt Nooch
State of Nature
4
   |
Posted - 2016.08.28 17:30:39 -
[1] - Quote
Say we have the following example.
A ship is webbed to the point it is virtually stationary, and is then orbited around by another ship. Speaking generally, what would the Angular Velocity be for each of those ships? Is it the same, or does it benefit one side more than the other?
Thanks in advance
- Dirt ;) |
Reinhardt Kreiss
13
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Posted - 2016.08.28 17:53:46 -
[2] - Quote
The game engine sees both ships as points, the direction the ship or the guns are facing is not accounted for. Because of that the angular velocity is the same from A to B as it is from B to A. How that affects the actual fight depends on either's signature and overall tracking. |
Dirt Nooch
State of Nature
4
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Posted - 2016.08.28 18:22:18 -
[3] - Quote
Do you know somewhere that states or tests this? |
Reinhardt Kreiss
13
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Posted - 2016.08.28 18:36:14 -
[4] - Quote
I'm sure if you google around you'll find it. |
Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
168
|
Posted - 2016.08.28 18:46:33 -
[5] - Quote
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Gunnery_Guide
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Turret_Damage |
Dirt Nooch
State of Nature
4
|
Posted - 2016.08.28 19:13:39 -
[6] - Quote
Yep read these a fair while ago, but they don't answer the question. I also googled around the subject a fair bit but no luck.
If somebody fancied testing it out with a friend who also plays this game that might be a good demonstration?
-Dirt
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Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
168
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Posted - 2016.08.28 19:39:59 -
[7] - Quote
you can get on the test server by yourself and test it out.
Reinhardt Kreiss gave you the right answer right away.
if you actually have read those 2 links i posted and understood them at 100% then you should already know the answer to your question but clearly you don't.
good luck  |
Dirt Nooch
State of Nature
4
|
Posted - 2016.08.28 20:15:35 -
[8] - Quote
Soel Reit wrote:
if you actually have read those 2 links i posted and understood them at 100% then you should already know the answer to your question but clearly you don't.
Dont know how to use a/the test servers, can you swap ships?
Can you help a silly girl out and show me what elements of those articles are totally clarificatory.
I don't doubt he's right, i was just wanting something to back it up |
d0cTeR9
Serenity Cartel
372
|
Posted - 2016.08.28 20:36:21 -
[9] - Quote
Dirt Nooch wrote:Soel Reit wrote:
if you actually have read those 2 links i posted and understood them at 100% then you should already know the answer to your question but clearly you don't.
Dont know how to use a/the test servers, can you swap ships? Can you help a silly girl out and show me what elements of those articles are totally clarificatory. I don't doubt he's right, i was just wanting something to back it up
He is right.
Source: Me, playing since 2003.
Been around since the beginning.
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Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
168
|
Posted - 2016.08.28 20:54:36 -
[10] - Quote
Dirt Nooch wrote:Soel Reit wrote:
if you actually have read those 2 links i posted and understood them at 100% then you should already know the answer to your question but clearly you don't.
Dont know how to use a/the test servers, can you swap ships? Can you help a silly girl out and show me what elements of those articles are totally clarificatory. I don't doubt he's right, i was just wanting something to back it up
only hot grills accepted.
pictures or never gonna help |
Dirt Nooch
State of Nature
4
|
Posted - 2016.08.28 21:13:40 -
[11] - Quote
d0cTeR9 wrote:
He is right.
Source: Me, playing since 2003.
How would you know, as in, unless you created test circumstances and compared the stats? |
Victoria Ewans
Inefficient Canadian Cosmic Conglomerate
3
|
Posted - 2016.08.28 21:30:26 -
[12] - Quote
Try this simulator.
http://www.hostile.dk/files/eve/eve-tracking101.swf
On page 4/5 of that guide, there is a simulator for the transversal velocity wich can be easily transformed into angular velocity:
Angular velocity = Transversal velocity / distance between 2 ships
Try it. |
Dirt Nooch
State of Nature
5
|
Posted - 2016.08.28 21:52:17 -
[13] - Quote
Victoria Ewans wrote:Try this simulator. http://www.hostile.dk/files/eve/eve-tracking101.swf On page 4/5 of that guide, there is a simulator for the transversal velocity wich can be easily transformed into angular velocity: Angular velocity = Transversal velocity / distance between 2 ships Try it.
Oh you sweetheart, thanks for trying but that link just redirects me to a picture of me ri**ing your mother in the 70s. Bad link I guess. |
Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
168
|
Posted - 2016.08.28 21:59:43 -
[14] - Quote
wut  |
Reinhardt Kreiss
15
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Posted - 2016.08.28 22:05:52 -
[15] - Quote
Good luck figuring it out on your own,with all you trolling and nonsense. |
Dirt Nooch
State of Nature
5
|
Posted - 2016.08.28 22:13:29 -
[16] - Quote
I actually just came across an eveuni article that states...
"is important to note that radial, transversal, and angular velocity are the same for both you and an object. For example, if you have a transversal velocity of 500 m/s with respect to another player's ship, then he also has a 500 m/s transversal velocity with respect to your ship." |
Elenahina
agony unleashed
Agony Empire
1050
|
Posted - 2016.08.28 22:23:41 -
[17] - Quote
Dirt Nooch wrote:I actually just came across an eveuni article that states...
"is important to note that radial, transversal, and angular velocity are the same for both you and an object. For example, if you have a transversal velocity of 500 m/s with respect to another player's ship, then he also has a 500 m/s transversal velocity with respect to your ship."
Physics! Excitement!
As far as the formula is concerned, it doesn't matter which object is moving and which is stationary. The same is also true in the real world. It doesn't matter if you're stationary and your friend walks around you, or he's stationary and you walk around him. If you walk at the same speed on the same size circle, the angular velocity will be the same.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
916
|
Posted - 2016.08.28 22:27:54 -
[18] - Quote
Dirt Nooch wrote:d0cTeR9 wrote:
He is right.
Source: Me, playing since 2003.
How would you know, as in, unless you created test circumstances and compared the stats?
Because physics.
Angular velocity is a measure of the rate of change of angular displacement between 2 objects.
Mathematically, in 2 dimensions it is:
omega = v(sin theta) / r
So it can't be anything but equal.
However, if you can't wrap your head around the basic theory:
https://puu.sh/qRRvk/871b72dc73.jpg
One ship stationary. One ship orbiting.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
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Dirt Nooch
State of Nature
5
|
Posted - 2016.08.28 22:34:41 -
[19] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Dirt Nooch wrote:d0cTeR9 wrote:
He is right.
Source: Me, playing since 2003.
How would you know, as in, unless you created test circumstances and compared the stats? Because physics. Angular velocity is a measure of the rate of change of angular displacement between 2 objects. Mathematically, in 2 dimensions it is: omega = v(sin theta) / r So it can't be anything but equal. However, if you can't wrap your head around the basic theory: https://puu.sh/qRRvk/871b72dc73.jpgOne ship stationary. One ship orbiting.
Thank you! That is excellent response.
Theory + evidence. New favourite person. |
Jessica Starblaze
Rookie Help
10
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Posted - 2016.08.28 22:35:46 -
[20] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:Dirt Nooch wrote:I actually just came across an eveuni article that states...
"is important to note that radial, transversal, and angular velocity are the same for both you and an object. For example, if you have a transversal velocity of 500 m/s with respect to another player's ship, then he also has a 500 m/s transversal velocity with respect to your ship." Physics! Excitement! As far as the formula is concerned, it doesn't matter which object is moving and which is stationary. The same is also true in the real world. It doesn't matter if you're stationary and your friend walks around you, or he's stationary and you walk around him. If you walk at the same speed on the same size circle, the angular velocity will be the same.
However if you attach a stick to your friend that points in your direction and he circles around you the stick (given that he does not change it-¦s alignment relative to himself) will keep pointing to you, which is where eve mechanics works differenty as the ships rotation does not automatically rotate the turret with it :).
So basically if you fly "North" and your turret points "west" and now you turn counter clock wise until your ship points "west" your turret will not turn with the ship it will keep pointing "west" -> which is the reason why no matter if you orbit or are the one who is sitting in the middle angular velocity affects your turrets the same way in both situations.
(Hope that is understandable, can not explain it any better in english ;) ). |
Elenahina
agony unleashed
Agony Empire
1050
|
Posted - 2016.08.28 22:44:23 -
[21] - Quote
Jessica Starblaze wrote:Elenahina wrote:Dirt Nooch wrote:I actually just came across an eveuni article that states...
"is important to note that radial, transversal, and angular velocity are the same for both you and an object. For example, if you have a transversal velocity of 500 m/s with respect to another player's ship, then he also has a 500 m/s transversal velocity with respect to your ship." Physics! Excitement! As far as the formula is concerned, it doesn't matter which object is moving and which is stationary. The same is also true in the real world. It doesn't matter if you're stationary and your friend walks around you, or he's stationary and you walk around him. If you walk at the same speed on the same size circle, the angular velocity will be the same. However if you attach a stick to your friend that points in your direction and he circles around you the stick (given that he does not change it-¦s alignment relative to himself) will keep pointing to you, which is where eve mechanics works differenty as the ships rotation does not automatically rotate the turret with it :). So basically if you fly "North" and your turret points "west" and now you turn counter clock wise until your ship points "west" your turret will not turn with the ship it will keep pointing "west" -> which is the reason why no matter if you orbit or are the one who is sitting in the middle angular velocity affects your turrets the same way in both situations. (Hope that is understandable, can not explain it any better in english ;) ).
Makes perfect sense to me.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
|
Dirt Nooch
State of Nature
5
|
Posted - 2016.08.28 22:46:13 -
[22] - Quote
Jessica Starblaze wrote:Elenahina wrote:Dirt Nooch wrote:I actually just came across an eveuni article that states...
"is important to note that radial, transversal, and angular velocity are the same for both you and an object. For example, if you have a transversal velocity of 500 m/s with respect to another player's ship, then he also has a 500 m/s transversal velocity with respect to your ship." Physics! Excitement! As far as the formula is concerned, it doesn't matter which object is moving and which is stationary. The same is also true in the real world. It doesn't matter if you're stationary and your friend walks around you, or he's stationary and you walk around him. If you walk at the same speed on the same size circle, the angular velocity will be the same. However if you attach a stick to your friend that points in your direction and he circles around you the stick (given that he does not change it-¦s alignment relative to himself) will keep pointing to you, which is where eve mechanics works differenty as the ships rotation does not automatically rotate the turret with it :). So basically if you fly "North" and your turret points "west" and now you turn counter clock wise until your ship points "west" your turret will not turn with the ship it will keep pointing "west" -> which is the reason why no matter if you orbit or are the one who is sitting in the middle angular velocity affects your turrets the same way in both situations. (Hope that is understandable, can not explain it any better in english ;) ).
Yes that makes sense, and that was why I was keen on some evidence or citation because as much as we can run the maths, eve is only an imitation of physics and might have *quirks* which can only be discovered through experimentation. |
Serene Repose
2805
|
Posted - 2016.08.28 23:48:13 -
[23] - Quote
It should also be noted when you have "five" guns, you have ten turrets - five on each side, so you don't have to shoot through your own ship....how convenient.
angular velocity
We must accommodate the idiocracy.
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Dirt Nooch
State of Nature
5
|
Posted - 2016.08.28 23:52:11 -
[24] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:It should also be noted when you have "five" guns, you have ten turrets - five on each side, so you don't have to shoot through your own ship....how convenient. angular velocity
You have a lot of patience, Sarcasm has a 24x training multiplier and I can see you're level V.
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Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
168
|
Posted - 2016.08.29 00:04:24 -
[25] - Quote
Dirt Nooch wrote:Serene Repose wrote:It should also be noted when you have "five" guns, you have ten turrets - five on each side, so you don't have to shoot through your own ship....how convenient. angular velocity You have a lot of patience, Sarcasm has a 24x training multiplier and I can see you're level V.
who need patience in 2k16? LuL
skil injectors ftw |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3909
|
Posted - 2016.08.29 02:18:04 -
[26] - Quote
Tracking does work that way: Same for both.
But I always thought that my ship should be able to automatically correct for its own motion. It would be a change to the game mechanics, but I think it would make more sense.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
|
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Stain Confederation
701
|
Posted - 2016.08.29 02:26:50 -
[27] - Quote
You got the answer with the first response. If you want evidence then go and test it yourself with a friend or an alt.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Serene Repose
2805
|
Posted - 2016.08.29 03:22:05 -
[28] - Quote
It's a calculation that changes fluidly. Firstly, having something sit perfectly still in this game is a debatable notion. Secondly, having a ship orbit something that's supposedly sitting still is just as debatable in terms of possibility. Only with those two as factual will you have a constant set of variables upon which to calculate.
However, as was said, even if the items in question are moving at constantly varying speeds, and constantly changing trajectories, at any given instance the result of the calculation will be the same for each body in motion - in relation to one another. SO, if you ask "what is the angular velocity?" The answer has to be, "It depends."
We must accommodate the idiocracy.
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
2711
|
Posted - 2016.08.29 05:57:23 -
[29] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Dirt Nooch wrote:d0cTeR9 wrote:
He is right.
Source: Me, playing since 2003.
How would you know, as in, unless you created test circumstances and compared the stats? Because physics. Angular velocity is a measure of the rate of change of angular displacement between 2 objects. Mathematically, in 2 dimensions it is: omega = v(sin theta) / r So it can't be anything but equal. However, if you can't wrap your head around the basic theory: https://puu.sh/qRRvk/871b72dc73.jpgOne ship stationary. One ship orbiting. Two ships. One angular.
More because "wrong physics". EVE is completely ignoring the change in of the velocity vector of the orbiting ship which changes this ships coordinate system in a way that the angular velocity of the orbited ship would indeed be zero.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Serene Repose
2809
|
Posted - 2016.08.29 09:00:42 -
[30] - Quote
All the people who could crunch the numbers on this rage quit four years ago.
Don't look at me. I majored in oil painting.
We must accommodate the idiocracy.
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