EVE Search - Why are all split weapon ships worst in class?

All Channels

Ships and Modules

Why are all split weapon ships worst in class?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Shadow Mancer Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.03.19 01:51:00 - [31] Originally by: Grace Hopper Edited by: Grace Hopper on 18/03/2007 00:39:34 Seems that the split weapons makes these ships preform really badly. The phoon managed to break the mould for awhile but if it had been a single weapon type ship (missles) it would have been even more powerful. Even as far as Faction and T2 ships are concerned the split weapon ships are terrible in comparison with dedicated damage type ships. They have to forgo damage mods because of the need for twice the slots and also have fitting problems when trying to run all guns/missles. . I disagree with the op on Typhoon. Here's the reason. I use the phoon for ratting and I find that it provides u with so much flexibility due to it's slpit "freedom of fiting". I have: Hi: 4 Siege missile launchers, 2 heavy Dims, tractor beam and salvager. Med and low are filled with tank and cap rechargers tech 2. The reason it's flexible is because you can kill rats with torps and drones, and it's actually a bit better than Domi for ratting(provided that both ships are equipped with the best gears). 2 Heavy NOS allow my tank to run real good, salvager and tractor beam allow me to pull in loot and salvage, these 2 mods are important to me because i can refine loot and get minerals from it. Other ships like Tempest or Raven can fit those 2 mods too u might say, but you won't be able to fit 2 heavy NOS tho, unless in raven u drop salvager and tractor beam and drop down to cruise missles which means u losing lots DPS. Now if I compare Typhoon to Raven, than yes Raven is better in terms of firepower. Due to the fact that Raven can kill rats much faster it doesn't need a tank. However, the point is Typhoon is so much more flexible than a Raven. Again, if I wanted to change my weapon to Autocannons, i can to. Why would I change my torp launchers to Autocannons u might ask? Because I might get very bored with missiles and wanna change the play style abit. Why u can fit 4 guns and 4 launchers on a Tempest or Raven they won't deal as much damage as their intended full damage setup at all. Let's have a look at Huggin. Split weapon system = bad? hum i been using Huggins as a webber ship for a while now and its primary use has been webbing. I dun even care whether all guns and launchers fit or not, all I care about is that webbers do fit and I can help other in gang since I pretty much brough a hostile ship to the full stop or something like 3m/s.
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.03.19 01:55:00 - [32] Originally by: Grace Hopper I wonder offhand how many people in the entire game have the skills to fly this. Probably less than 100, heck probably less than 50. And it would take close to two years or more to train for. All for something thats just barly capable of fighting a t2 blasterthron or equilivant. Every minmatar DN pilot can use that setup... --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
mematar Turbulent	Posted - 2007.03.19 02:24:00 - [33] Originally by: Hllaxiu Originally by: Grace Hopper I wonder offhand how many people in the entire game have the skills to fly this. Probably less than 100, heck probably less than 50. And it would take close to two years or more to train for. All for something thats just barly capable of fighting a t2 blasterthron or equilivant. Every minmatar DN pilot can use that setup... And they should use that :) It's what I use atleast, works like a charm!
Mathias Orsen	Posted - 2007.03.19 02:37:00 - [34] I actually find the Phoon to be a great ship myself. First started flying it when I was training missiles to use a raven. Ship has one of the best tanks and decent damage. 4x missiles, 4x nosf work well. I generally go with a combo of cruise and siege so i can fit 3x heavy nosf 1x medium. The ship has 4 mid slots wich speak for themselves. Even though it's not the 5 slots of the domi, It's also not the 3 slots of the geddon. 7 slot tank works great on the phoon. Weapons use no cap. Damage can come from 4x Autocannons or 4x missiles. Nosf can keep the cap up. Can fit a cap booster. The ship reserves all it's cap purely for the tank. Only other ship that really does as well is the Domi. With the Domi, you get a little more nosf but not a huge deal if your running 3x heavy 1x medium on the phoon. Drones on phoon loose 33% damage compared to a lvl 5 domi. This damage is made up with the 4x weapons used. Whith the phoon fit for the most DPS tanked, It can tank as much as 800 DPS, or well over 1k DPS with good faction/deadspace equipment. In wich case, who does the most damage really isn't as important as who is chewing away thier cap the quickest. -------------------------------------- ---"What's in your wallet?"--- "There are two kinds of respect, fear and admiration.... I'll take what I can get"
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.03.19 06:21:00 - [35] Tux, ages ago, mentioned that he thought of taking off all damage bonuses to missles from all ships and boosting missles damage in general. That way, split weapons ships would be very useful, missle ships would still be good, and there would be more variety in ship fits. What happened to it? I really dont know. I still make a thread about it every now and then though. ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever
fisty Aliastra	Posted - 2007.03.19 07:28:00 - [36] any1 remember the tempest back in the days when u could use cruise missile in heavy launchers? 4 1400 4 arbalest heavy missile launchers with cruise shield tanked with heavy capacitor and as many gyro t2 as possible... now that ship was unbeatable at the time Ciao
Ernest Graefenberg Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.19 07:29:00 - [37] Originally by: dalman You are very wrong. And just like the dominix would, it would be the 'end all, be all' with more powergrid. Except unlike the Dominix, it's awful. In all seriousness, it ends up with the exact same usefulness as a Dominix except minus some armor and a midslot. It's slightly faster, but last I checked we were making sure that doesn't really matter anymore. The hypothetical gank setups suck epicly too, for a lack of CPU and eventually PG ending you up any way you twist or turn it with a far inferior cousin of a Megathron, Hyperion or Abaddon (or even a ganked out Dominix) as far as leftover slots for a buffer tank goes, or even applicability of damage (range). Simply because it does not spontaneously implode does not mean it's a good ship, it's simply not quite bad enough to be a Bellicose Mk II. Still the worst BS though, bar none.
Tarron Sarek Gallente Endica Enterprises	Posted - 2007.03.19 07:39:00 - [38] Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Tux, ages ago, mentioned that he thought of taking off all damage bonuses to missles from all ships and boosting missles damage in general. That way, split weapons ships would be very useful, missle ships would still be good, and there would be more variety in ship fits. What happened to it? I really dont know. I still make a thread about it every now and then though. Would be an easy and effective solution - if done right. ___________________________________ _/_/ Game balance isn't just a luxury _/_/
Laboratus Gallente BGG Alektorophobia	Posted - 2007.03.19 08:48:00 - [39] Edited by: Laboratus on 19/03/2007 08:45:07 Originally by: Thor Xian To be 'versatile', the Typhoon would need: 1500 more base grid 40 more base CPU +2 Turret +2 Launcher -1 Low Slot +2 Mid Slot 8/6/6 [6 Turrets/6 Launchers] THAT would be versatile. You do realise that it would be a better than a pest, raven or a domi in any of their roles... Same amount of launchers as a raven, same amount of turrets as a phoon and an oversized dronebay... Meaning it would outdps them all... And still be the fastest bs out there... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Imhotep Khem Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.19 08:50:00 - [40] I dont know if typhoon works at all. I have not flown it since they added misiles to it. I guess they wanted to make caldari get a 3rd BS. As Minmatar I dont have good missiles skills. But I did train drones to use in the Typhoon... That ship is booty. Roll up against my auto-pest with that thing and die a slow miserable death. _________ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
mematar Turbulent	Posted - 2007.03.19 09:02:00 - [41] Originally by: Imhotep Khem I dont know if typhoon works at all. I have not flown it since they added misiles to it. I guess they wanted to make caldari get a 3rd BS. As Minmatar I dont have good missiles skills. But I did train drones to use in the Typhoon... That ship is booty. Roll up against my auto-pest with that thing and die a slow miserable death. You call yourself minmatar without missile skills? GO AWAY! You are far from being minmatar if you dont have missile skills. And I would bet I can kill your Tempest in 1on1 with non-nanophoon.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE	Posted - 2007.03.19 10:13:00 - [42] People notice what they propose? To use the typhoon in a maelstrom style, a role where it cannot compete with the true heavy battleships (Rokh hyperion maelstrom...) It is not an unusable ship. But is has some serious issues. The most simple to solve is the switched armor shield hp. The tight fitting matches the tight fitting of other tier 1 Battleships. The split bonus hurts on any attempt to capitalize on DPS, so you must capitalize on tank (but that is harder than in a Dominix because of the low armor HP (means you NEED a plate) ) At end it can be made a good combat ship but needs more skills than any other Battleship. DAmm this ARMOR tanker Battleship has same armor Hp as armor tanker BCs (harbringer). SOLVE THAT!!!! If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.19 10:16:00 - [43] Originally by: dalman You are very wrong. The typhoon is a kick-*** ship for solo or small gang, also in 'tank-mode'. If you are a skilled pilot, in terms of both skillpoints and player skill, you should be able to rival any other BS 1vs1 in a tanked typhoon. This includes faction battleships as well. The obvious problem you face is to kit it out the best way with it's gimped powergrid (exactly the same problem the dominix has). And just like the dominix would, it would be the 'end all, be all' with more powergrid. The nightmare is indeed a bit gimped. But it has nothing, nothing at all, to do with the split weapons. It has to do with mostly lack of cpu/grid to fully use the ship, but also with the not so impressive cap, low speed/agility, and 'small' dronebay. Well, the Nightmare is a typhoon which is more slower, less agile, smaller drone bay and uses lasers insted of projectiles, and has cpu/grid issues. There are some intresting Nightmare setups, but I feel there are other ships.... faction ships even that provide a better pvp experience. With that said a NanoMare is pretty evil to fight, but the problem is that it is just a expensive typhoon :) -- In Internet Explorer, You keep tabs on your browser. In Soviet Russia, browser keeps tabs on you
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.03.19 10:20:00 - [44] Originally by: Grace Hopper I wonder offhand how many people in the entire game have the skills to fly this. Probably less than 100, heck probably less than 50. And it would take close to two years or more to train for. All for something thats just barly capable of fighting a t2 blasterthron or equilivant. Ah, I love people with no clue exaggerating training times into infinity. The only skilltree you have to train which a blasterthron pilot doesn't have to are the torp skills. Which takes, assuming you have no skills there at all, 2 months max to use t2 torps and having the support skills at 4.
Laboratus Gallente BGG Alektorophobia	Posted - 2007.03.19 10:20:00 - [45] Edited by: Laboratus on 19/03/2007 10:16:49 Originally by: Kagura Nikon People notice what they propose? To use the typhoon in a maelstrom style, a role where it cannot compete with the true heavy battleships (Rokh hyperion maelstrom...) It is not an unusable ship. But is has some serious issues. The most simple to solve is the switched armor shield hp. The tight fitting matches the tight fitting of other tier 1 Battleships. The split bonus hurts on any attempt to capitalize on DPS, so you must capitalize on tank (but that is harder than in a Dominix because of the low armor HP (means you NEED a plate) ) At end it can be made a good combat ship but needs more skills than any other Battleship. DAmm this ARMOR tanker Battleship has same armor Hp as armor tanker BCs (harbringer). SOLVE THAT!!!! The difference is, if you go against a domi, your gun's don't eat cap, and you have 2 more high slots. 4ACs+ 4 nos/neut, full passive tank. The domi will either have nos/neut in highs, and you have a distinctive dps advantage and can hold cap better, or it will have electron blasters in highs, and you will have cap advantage and the domis guns and tank will shut down very fast. Not to mention superior speed and as such the ability to determine range or outrun drones. Pretty much win win anyways... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.19 10:48:00 - [46] Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg Originally by: dalman You are very wrong. And just like the dominix would, it would be the 'end all, be all' with more powergrid. Except unlike the Dominix, it's awful. In all seriousness, it ends up with the exact same usefulness as a Dominix except minus some armor and a midslot. It's slightly faster, but last I checked we were making sure that doesn't really matter anymore. The hypothetical gank setups suck epicly too, for a lack of CPU and eventually PG ending you up any way you twist or turn it with a far inferior cousin of a Megathron, Hyperion or Abaddon (or even a ganked out Dominix) as far as leftover slots for a buffer tank goes, or even applicability of damage (range). Simply because it does not spontaneously implode does not mean it's a good ship, it's simply not quite bad enough to be a Bellicose Mk II. Still the worst BS though, bar none. Oh rly ? 4x ac 4x launchers and bazilion of plates will outperform many many bs. But I guess you never tried bs that needs cap to run guns. --------
Miss CJB Gallente In White Suits	Posted - 2007.03.19 10:56:00 - [47] Originally by: Hllaxiu Originally by: Grace Hopper I wonder offhand how many people in the entire game have the skills to fly this. Probably less than 100, heck probably less than 50. And it would take close to two years or more to train for. All for something thats just barly capable of fighting a t2 blasterthron or equilivant. Every minmatar DN pilot can use that setup... i can use that setup, though i find noss + duel rep's more usefull then seige + 1600 plate. that sayed, i can flie mini dreadnoughts too rigs are the saveing grace for the PG issue imo. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Taiatia ([email protected])
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE	Posted - 2007.03.19 12:04:00 - [48] Originally by: Laboratus Edited by: Laboratus on 19/03/2007 10:16:49 Originally by: Kagura Nikon People notice what they propose? To use the typhoon in a maelstrom style, a role where it cannot compete with the true heavy battleships (Rokh hyperion maelstrom...) It is not an unusable ship. But is has some serious issues. The most simple to solve is the switched armor shield hp. The tight fitting matches the tight fitting of other tier 1 Battleships. The split bonus hurts on any attempt to capitalize on DPS, so you must capitalize on tank (but that is harder than in a Dominix because of the low armor HP (means you NEED a plate) ) At end it can be made a good combat ship but needs more skills than any other Battleship. DAmm this ARMOR tanker Battleship has same armor Hp as armor tanker BCs (harbringer). SOLVE THAT!!!! The difference is, if you go against a domi, your gun's don't eat cap, and you have 2 more high slots. 4ACs+ 4 nos/neut, full passive tank. The domi will either have nos/neut in highs, and you have a distinctive dps advantage and can hold cap better, or it will have electron blasters in highs, and you will have cap advantage and the domis guns and tank will shut down very fast. Not to mention superior speed and as such the ability to determine range or outrun drones. Pretty much win win anyways... not at all The domini have much much more spare drones. So it can concentrate to kill typhoon large drones. And soon the Dominix will outdps the typhoon. I would be happy already if I had the same armor HP as the other armor tanker. I don't like uing plates on my ships but with such low HP it is needed. Also Typhoon usually is more expensive than any tier 1 BS (usually 10-15 mil more) Granted, with rigs the typhoon can correts some of its drawbacks. But that is expensive for a BS that was supposed to fill the cannon fooder BS role. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Mymh Heretache	Posted - 2007.03.19 12:17:00 - [49] Split weapon types shouldn't do as much damage as dedicated by a simple reason: resistances.
Dray Caldari Endgame.	Posted - 2007.03.19 12:28:00 - [50] The phoon is ace, what really boils my p*ss about it is the fact it has 4 mids and 7 lows with a higher base shield hp, that is just stupid, plain stupid. When CCP get it right its all good, but when they get it wrong, they get wrong in some of the most retarded ways.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE	Posted - 2007.03.19 12:30:00 - [51] Originally by: Mymh Heretache Split weapon types shouldn't do as much damage as dedicated by a simple reason: resistances. what? If you haven't noticed nowadays is very very hard to find any PVP battleship with a hole in resistances (only possible exception is shield tanking). well on my point of view the typhoon do a reasonable damage (just because both bonuses are to rof), but needs hell lots of skill to do it. More important is.. if CCp nerf NOS I think balance maybve achieved among all the several flavors of BS. Then my maesltrom will kick all domni asses. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Laboratus Gallente BGG Alektorophobia	Posted - 2007.03.19 14:31:00 - [52] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Laboratus Edited by: Laboratus on 19/03/2007 10:16:49 Originally by: Kagura Nikon People notice what they propose? To use the typhoon in a maelstrom style, a role where it cannot compete with the true heavy battleships (Rokh hyperion maelstrom...) It is not an unusable ship. But is has some serious issues. The most simple to solve is the switched armor shield hp. The tight fitting matches the tight fitting of other tier 1 Battleships. The split bonus hurts on any attempt to capitalize on DPS, so you must capitalize on tank (but that is harder than in a Dominix because of the low armor HP (means you NEED a plate) ) At end it can be made a good combat ship but needs more skills than any other Battleship. DAmm this ARMOR tanker Battleship has same armor Hp as armor tanker BCs (harbringer). SOLVE THAT!!!! The difference is, if you go against a domi, your gun's don't eat cap, and you have 2 more high slots. 4ACs+ 4 nos/neut, full passive tank. The domi will either have nos/neut in highs, and you have a distinctive dps advantage and can hold cap better, or it will have electron blasters in highs, and you will have cap advantage and the domis guns and tank will shut down very fast. Not to mention superior speed and as such the ability to determine range or outrun drones. Pretty much win win anyways... not at all The domini have much much more spare drones. So it can concentrate to kill typhoon large drones. And soon the Dominix will outdps the typhoon. I would be happy already if I had the same armor HP as the other armor tanker. I don't like uing plates on my ships but with such low HP it is needed. Also Typhoon usually is more expensive than any tier 1 BS (usually 10-15 mil more) Granted, with rigs the typhoon can correts some of its drawbacks. But that is expensive for a BS that was supposed to fill the cannon fooder BS role. If the domi concentrates on drones, you will have time to run or deplete his cap. Regardless, it is still a situation, where the only options are stalemate or win. So the odds are good. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Neo Providence	Posted - 2007.03.19 14:46:00 - [53] the typhoon it is a split ship, but the skills is not split. it is a missle boat with the skills to match.
Ferocious FeAr Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.03.19 16:25:00 - [54] 4 siege 4 heavy nos, you win not because you are good but because you have more nos than your opponent. That is how you fly the typhoon. That is the only probable way, unless you want to die to a better bs platform all the time. Don't hate me, learn to love me
Jet Collins Dynamic Endeavors	Posted - 2007.03.19 16:56:00 - [55] Originally by: Gabriel Karade Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 18/03/2007 17:06:39 ahem the Typhoon can deal out up to 250 dps from torpedoes, plus 317 dps from drones, plus 240dps from Autocannons û 807 dps in total, all while running a 7 slot armour tank with 81/73/77/78% resistances and 12,086 armour. That's already more than capable of going toe-to-toe with an equivalently skilled (i.e. perfect) T2 Blasterthron, and you guys want more?... Edit: setup for those who don't believe me (yes I have fought against this) Quote: 4 dual 425 II 4 siege II ab II faint warp prohibitor (20k) web medium electrochemical injector large rep II internal force field array exlosive hardener II kinetic hardener II n-type thermic hardener energized adaptive nano membrane II 1600mm rolled tungsten I have decieded to mess around with the phoon since I have the skills. My set is close: t2 800 not 425's 2 cruise 2 t2 seige painter not warp disruptor. 2nd large Armor repairer. 2 power grid rigs to fit it. one rig slot left. My thoughts are that the phoon has good speed and a small sig so I don't want to fit mods to nerf that thats why the dual large. And no scrabler because I don't about killing everyone i come in combate with. I just want to have something that will give me an advantage if something small attacks. I want a versital set up. However with the changes to the nerf to stackign mods looks like I might have to change up the set up. I'll probably be left with a ship that has to much PG :P. But maybe I'll just fit all seige now with out the 2 large repairers. Dynamic Endeavors is now Recuiting.!! Contact me in game for deatails about the corp. Mostly a PvE corp, with Jump clones avaiale in Empire and 0.0.
Grace Hopper	Posted - 2007.03.19 17:33:00 - [56] So what have we now established with this discussion? I see this so far: a. Of all the split weapon ships the ones that don't seem to need any change are the Huginn and Typhoon. (My personal opinion of the typhoon has been shot down, with this many people arguing both sides of the issue it seems balanced.) b. All the other split weapon ships are gimped. Does anyone have any specific ideas of what can be done to these ships individually to make them worthwhile? Changing the very nature of missles seems to be a broad stroke that may increase overall battleship dps. I could see many people fitting launchers whenever possible with such a change, and caldari ships would loose out as other people could fit launchers for more dps than caldari would get by adding turrets.
Mastin Dragonfly Amarr Navy Runners	Posted - 2007.03.19 18:14:00 - [57] Edited by: Mastin Dragonfly on 19/03/2007 18:12:46 All in favor of giving my Nightmare a 175 m3 dronebay, say aye.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE	Posted - 2007.03.19 18:17:00 - [58] what? The only split bonus ship that I would change is the typhoon (rebalancing its armor). All the others are ok (at least the important ones). If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Ashira Twilight	Posted - 2007.03.20 03:21:00 - [59] For the truely gimped split-weapon ships, perhaps one of the bonuses should be for BOTH types of weapons. Like "5% rof for medium projectiles and heavy/assault/heavy assault missiles per leve, and blah blah blah per level". It would boost them a bit, but still leave them lacking in the damage mod department. ------------------------------- The opinions reflected in this post DO reflect the opinions of my corp...of one guy and a bunch of alts.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.20 06:43:00 - [60] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Mymh Heretache Split weapon types shouldn't do as much damage as dedicated by a simple reason: resistances. what? If you haven't noticed nowadays is very very hard to find any PVP battleship with a hole in resistances (only possible exception is shield tanking). well on my point of view the typhoon do a reasonable damage (just because both bonuses are to rof), but needs hell lots of skill to do it. More important is.. if CCp nerf NOS I think balance maybve achieved among all the several flavors of BS. Then my maesltrom will kick all domni asses. Actualy, its extraordinarly easy to find a battleship with the typical EANM/DC tank. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"

Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.