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Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Pride - Honor - Duty	Posted - 2007.03.19 10:01:00 - [1] I'm not normally one to whine up until now but i really have a problem with this. Originally by: CCP Oveur Would we do anything about the market price if it drops? The short answer is no, we don't want to mess with the economy in a direct manner. However, we have through time changed composition and distribution of minerals to addres certain long-term situations. However, as long as for example Zyd stays around 1024, it's base price, we have no worries. You see it kinda disagrees with this... Item Database: Zydrine
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.19 10:04:00 - [2] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf I'm not normally one to whine up until now but i really have a problem with this. Originally by: CCP Oveur Would we do anything about the market price if it drops? The short answer is no, we don't want to mess with the economy in a direct manner. However, we have through time changed composition and distribution of minerals to addres certain long-term situations. However, as long as for example Zyd stays around 1024, it's base price, we have no worries. You see it kinda disagrees with this... Item Database: Zydrine Who cares? THe market sorts it's self out and will always sort itself out. CCP changed it because let's face it. The prices of zyndrine will not drop due to it's rarity. They should put zydrine and megacyte in low-sec. That would make low-sec a worthy trip for a miner. Pwnage PvP Recruitment \m/ Metal Head \m/
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.03.19 10:06:00 - [3] He means the NPC "buy price", which has a base value equal to 50% of "base database price" of a mineral. By the way, Oveur said NPCs no longer have buy orders. Sure, they no longer have VISIBLE market buy orders, but they sure do buy minerals nevertheless... all you have to do is showinfo some NPC corps and go into "market activity", check out last date/price of NPC-bought mineral transactions... you will notice, for instance, that State War Academy HAS actually bought some minerals not a month ago (close to and a bit above the lousy 50% of base price), in spite of non-existing visible buy orders by SWA on the market. _ MySkills \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Pride - Honor - Duty	Posted - 2007.03.19 10:11:00 - [4] Ah, I see, so when he says "Baseprice" he actually means "Half of baseprice" Sweet, anyone willing to start selling me ships and modules at 50% of baseprice? If half of baseprice is the level at which the devs consider a mineral to have become under-priced then insurance could become a BIG money maker.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.03.19 10:21:00 - [5] For non-skilled chars (35% waste without PE and without ME on the BP), platinum insurance payout is a mere 51.85% of baseprice if you don't take ISK costs of factory slots into account, so more likely it goes below the 50%. For PE5 and "perfect ME" T1 ship BP owners, platinum insurance payout "insurance scam" is closer to 70% of baseprice (slightly below due to factory slot costs). _ MySkills \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Alan Bell Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.03.19 10:22:00 - [6] when eve first started, base prices were half of what they are now... old sig
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.03.19 10:29:00 - [7] Originally by: Alan Bell when eve first started, base prices were half of what they are now... No they weren't. BASE price is not the same as NPC buy price. NPC buy price is 50% of base price. Reading comprehension ftl. _ MySkills \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Pride - Honor - Duty	Posted - 2007.03.19 10:39:00 - [8] Ok, so I did the math and came on back... At ME10 a Megathron built from half baseprice minerals (even including the 8192 baseprice of megacyte) would cost 52,976,750isk With an insurance payout of 105,000,000isk I don't recall the actual cost of platinum insurance for a mega, but I do remember it being well under 50mill.
Banana Torres The Green Banana Corporation Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.19 10:39:00 - [9] Originally by: Kaeten They should put zydrine and megacyte in low-sec. That would make low-sec a worthy trip for a miner. Oh, wow, that is an awesome idea, I wonder why those slackers at CCP never thought of that. Ooops, I have just been informed by my logistics director that in fact CCP did add zydrine and megacyte to low sec asteroids. At the same time as the added dreadnothings, which is a long time ago. Also I seem to remember being forced to mine Gneiss asteroids that someone have probed out, again in lowsec. -- The Green Banana Corporation is Recruiting
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.03.19 10:49:00 - [10] Base price of ships = listed item database price = platinum payout = 100% of base price of minerals at "perfect manufacture" Platinum payout is 100% of baseprice, platinum cost is 30% of baseprice, working out as the 70% I mentioned in my previous post. Substract any waste you get and any ISK spent on the factory slot, and you still get lower than 70%, but very close to it. _ MySkills \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Skarsnik Caldari A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.03.19 10:49:00 - [11] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Alan Bell when eve first started, base prices were half of what they are now... No they weren't. BASE price is not the same as NPC buy price. NPC buy price is 50% of base price. Reading comprehension ftl. Actually, yes they were. Base price of Zydrine used to be 1024. ------------- EVE-Ink Tattoo Project
Dufas Amarr freelancers inc	Posted - 2007.03.19 11:07:00 - [12] You dont actually think they know what goes on in the game do you? or that your opinion counts __________ cool FINK sig under construction
MOS DEF 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.19 11:19:00 - [13] Originally by: Skarsnik Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Alan Bell when eve first started, base prices were half of what they are now... No they weren't. BASE price is not the same as NPC buy price. NPC buy price is 50% of base price. Reading comprehension ftl. Actually, yes they were. Base price of Zydrine used to be 1024. Indeed. I play since beta. Zydrine base was 1024 and that is about what it was supposed to be worth. Ofc the player driven market can drive this up and down but the devs intended it to be aroudn that. That's probably why they make the drones drop so much of it so it comes down to reasonable levels again.
Braaage Laborius Chapter	Posted - 2007.03.19 11:30:00 - [14] This is what I love about EVE, the market is totally dynamic and as a result strange things happen.
Frederick Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2007.03.19 11:33:00 - [15] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf If half of baseprice is the level at which the devs consider a mineral to have become under-priced then insurance could become a BIG money maker. Except that any method by which people can quickly and easily make money will be ruthlessly exploited until the market adapts and it is no longer profitable. All this effectively means is that insurance fraud acts to place a lower bound on the value of minerals, somewhere between half-baseprice and baseprice. Anyways, with regards to the acutal opening. What are you expecting the devs to do about it? The price of Zyd is falling because supply exceeds demand. The devs can change this in one of two ways, increase demand or reduce supply. The first, increase the amount of Zyd every BPO needs. Whooo! Not going to happen and the knockon effects on the rest of the mineral market would cause even more screaming than is currently happening. The second, well they could reduce the amount of Zyd that rogue drones drop. It'd improve the price, but I'm not certain it's the result you're looking for. Or maybe take Crokite out of the game, that'll win them friends. The short answer is the devs can't just wave a magic wand and make Zyd cost more. The only way to push the price back up is to increase the amount of manufacturing happening in total. Which means, looking at current mineral prices, that there needs to be a much bigger supply of commons. Who knows, maybe the rumoured ORE Capital Vessel will supply this and rebalance the market to what you think it should be.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.03.19 12:03:00 - [16] Originally by: MOS DEF Originally by: Skarsnik Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Alan Bell when eve first started, base prices were half of what they are now... No they weren't. BASE price is not the same as NPC buy price. NPC buy price is 50% of base price. Reading comprehension ftl. Actually, yes they were. Base price of Zydrine used to be 1024. Indeed. I play since beta. Zydrine base was 1024 and that is about what it was supposed to be worth. Ofc the player driven market can drive this up and down but the devs intended it to be aroudn that. That's probably why they make the drones drop so much of it so it comes down to reasonable levels again. So, you're trying to tell me that BASE price of zydrine was 1024 more than 2 years ago and that NPC corps bought Zydrine for only 512 ISK a piece ?!? I somehow have problems believing that. _ MySkills \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.03.19 12:06:00 - [17] sry, but... if introducing drone alloy drop rates in the new regions wasn't fiddling with the economy, we have a large spectrum of "not doing anything" -.- the only short term thingy we can expect these days is cheaper hulks mining more lo-mins in empire. we have the option to either slightly pull down high-sec mining aswell by increasing lo-mins in those new regions or we can screw with the plush alloy (drop rate) before the "world" gets used to these loads of zyd. i'm for b) and yes, low-sec ore could do with a boost: jasp, hemo, hedber down to a 400-refining-batches, gneiss down to 4m¦ and spud... just needs a open-heart-surgery
Angela Constantine Black Avatar Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.19 12:09:00 - [18] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: MOS DEF Originally by: Skarsnik Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Alan Bell when eve first started, base prices were half of what they are now... No they weren't. BASE price is not the same as NPC buy price. NPC buy price is 50% of base price. Reading comprehension ftl. Actually, yes they were. Base price of Zydrine used to be 1024. Indeed. I play since beta. Zydrine base was 1024 and that is about what it was supposed to be worth. Ofc the player driven market can drive this up and down but the devs intended it to be aroudn that. That's probably why they make the drones drop so much of it so it comes down to reasonable levels again. So, you're trying to tell me that BASE price of zydrine was 1024 more than 2 years ago and that NPC corps bought Zydrine for only 512 ISK a piece ?!? I somehow have problems believing that. Its true, when i first started playing eve (about 3 years ago maybe a little more) and was building my first cruiser, i remebmer being very distressed at having to buy zydrine at 1150 p/u and megacyte at an insane price of 11,000 p/u. Now i'm wishing the megacyte was back at that price with zydrine as low as it currently is.
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.03.19 12:22:00 - [19] Hint: buy zyd when it i slow, wait several months, sell zyd when it is hi, profit. What is worrying is the price of low end mins, i almost get the feeling that all macroers have moved to low sec and are now mining zyd giving ore instead of veld and plag n ****.. Might have been posted allready but are the new regions the reason for the dramatic price change in zyd? but how does that explain the rise in prices for low ends? surely it can't be all contributed to the new ships beeing built? people mining les low ends??? Resized tag... again... hope this pleases the tag ninjas from ccp... again :p
Mned Graydroggen Satal's Legion	Posted - 2007.03.19 12:47:00 - [20] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: MOS DEF Originally by: Skarsnik Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Alan Bell when eve first started, base prices were half of what they are now... No they weren't. BASE price is not the same as NPC buy price. NPC buy price is 50% of base price. Reading comprehension ftl. Actually, yes they were. Base price of Zydrine used to be 1024. Indeed. I play since beta. Zydrine base was 1024 and that is about what it was supposed to be worth. Ofc the player driven market can drive this up and down but the devs intended it to be aroudn that. That's probably why they make the drones drop so much of it so it comes down to reasonable levels again. So, you're trying to tell me that BASE price of zydrine was 1024 more than 2 years ago and that NPC corps bought Zydrine for only 512 ISK a piece ?!? I somehow have problems believing that. I dunno where you got the idea of npc's buying at half base price. When EVE went retail that wouldnt even be possible as all prices where in whole numbers. Decimals where added some 2 years into retail I believe. Original npc/base prices trit 1 pyr 4 mex 12 iso 64 noxc 256 zyd 1024 mega 4k something Currently the npc buy/sell orders are dynamic aswell. This was added a year or so back to get the npcs in league with the player run orders and make trading in npc goods more intresting.
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.03.19 13:23:00 - [21] This explains the prices: With the last patch a few things were introduced: Drone regions and new ships (tier 2 BC and tier 3 BS) These ships had been anticipated for a looong time and they were all super nice... People wanted these BIG TIME and pretty much all minerals on market was used to build nice ships... The ships are all the biggest of their class and hence they require a lot of minerals. Primarily the market became very short of tritanium, pyerite and mexallon and now we got the large inflated prices untill everything stabilize a bit. The drone regions took some time to get started but now the regions are supplying the market with pretty much a lot of zydrine in exchange for the much needed isk... Pinky - I'm a nice guy!! and OMG I love Team Tuxford for the speedbalancing...
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.03.19 13:52:00 - [22] ehm yes pinky, but the new toys were only responsible for a tiny erranous curve: much like anything else on the market, the players saved up for the new content, isk-wise and minerals aswell. tier 2 ships may need a few more ingredients but overall, they're par with intended supplies the zydrine supply from drone regions is indeed the factor here: as everybody can extrapolate from drone missions already; when ratting large drones, you end up with more of the high end alloys - with the plush alloy still outranking its 2nd most valueable alloy by more than 40%... so... which would you pick once your cargo gets cramped? consider it to be the "best named" alloy - and it'll remain #1 until zyd is down to ~1200 (and all other minerals (mostly megacyte, which is responsible for the #2) stay the same)
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.03.19 13:55:00 - [23] Edited by: Akita T on 19/03/2007 13:53:29 Originally by: Mned Graydroggen I dunno where you got the idea of npc's buying at half base price. When EVE went retail that wouldnt even be possible as all prices where in whole numbers. Decimals where added some 2 years into retail I believe. Original npc/base prices trit 1 pyr 4 mex 12 iso 64 noxc 256 zyd 1024 mega 4k something Currently the npc buy/sell orders are dynamic aswell. This was added a year or so back to get the npcs in league with the player run orders and make trading in npc goods more intresting. @#$^@#$&@#^�^ ! For the Nth time...MINERAL ITEM DATABASE PRICE = MINERAL BASE PRICE = MINERAL BASE NPC BUY PRICE * 2 Get it ? Or in other words, NPC buy = 50% of base. Doesn't matter if it's dynamic or not, doesn't matter if there's decimals involved or not. And yes, NPCs still buy minerals, at slightly ABOVE 50% of base, you just don't see the orders on the market. If "base" price of zydrine would have been 1024, then NPCs would have hought it for 512 ISK, not ~1024 ISK. Yes, tritanium NPC buy orders were for 1 ISK, but BASE price of trit was and still is 2 ISK. Also, even now, NPCs buy tritanium for a bit more than 1 ISK (last time I checked, 1.11 ISK a month ago). _ MySkills \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Pride - Honor - Duty	Posted - 2007.03.19 14:26:00 - [24] The fact is CCP have altered the market by vastly increasing supply of Zydrine while demand remains constant. I have no problem with this aside from the effect it has on the honest miners who don't have access to the megacyte bearing ores. It has massively altered the balance between mining and ratting, to the point that if it's not Arkonor you may as well pack up the hulk and fly a battleship.
Ruffio Sepico Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2007.03.19 14:45:00 - [25] Originally by: 000Hunter000 What is worrying is the price of low end mins, i almost get the feeling that all macroers have moved to low sec and are now mining zyd giving ore instead of veld and plag n ****.. People moaned about the macro miners and they needed to be removed. If its true what I heard that a lot of them been removed, well that have an impact on the economy. Then again, a lot of capital production take place in EVE these days, so the demand for minerals is much higher than it been before, but the I doubt the mining output into the economy have increased in tact of demand, so price go up... Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
Kruugore Minmatar Vigilant Justice	Posted - 2007.03.19 15:32:00 - [26] In my opinion, they shouldn't add more types of minerals to low sec(eg. megacyte), or high sec. What I feel they should do is add asteroids that produce MORE minerals in lowsec. Enriched Veldpar 0.1m3 - 2000Trit Per Refine base. Impacted Scordite 0.15m3 - 1666Trit, 832Pyerite. (Just as an example) EVE Vault, A Great Community
Lickity Split	Posted - 2007.03.19 15:54:00 - [27] Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 19/03/2007 13:53:29 Originally by: Mned Graydroggen I dunno where you got the idea of npc's buying at half base price. When EVE went retail that wouldnt even be possible as all prices where in whole numbers. Decimals where added some 2 years into retail I believe. Original npc/base prices trit 1 pyr 4 mex 12 iso 64 noxc 256 zyd 1024 mega 4k something Currently the npc buy/sell orders are dynamic aswell. This was added a year or so back to get the npcs in league with the player run orders and make trading in npc goods more intresting. @#$^@#$&@#^�^ ! For the Nth time...MINERAL ITEM DATABASE PRICE = MINERAL BASE PRICE = MINERAL BASE NPC BUY PRICE * 2 Get it ? Or in other words, NPC buy = 50% of base. Doesn't matter if it's dynamic or not, doesn't matter if there's decimals involved or not. And yes, NPCs still buy minerals, at slightly ABOVE 50% of base, you just don't see the orders on the market. If "base" price of zydrine would have been 1024, then NPCs would have hought it for 512 ISK, not ~1024 ISK. Yes, tritanium NPC buy orders were for 1 ISK, but BASE price of trit was and still is 2 ISK. Also, even now, NPCs buy tritanium for a bit more than 1 ISK (last time I checked, 1.11 ISK a month ago). i remember selling mex with my main about 3 and half years ago in the taisy station to the npc for 12 isk per.
dalman Finite Horizon	Posted - 2007.03.19 16:01:00 - [28] Edited by: dalman on 19/03/2007 16:02:19 If people haven't understood it, the minerals follow 4^x. Which means trit 1 pyr 4 mex 16 iso 64 noxc 256 zyd 1024 mega 4096 morph 16384 Now sometime they doubled them all in the 'show info' for some strange reason. Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me

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