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Open request for CCP to explain SOV rules

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 7 post(s)
She Storm Minmatar The Taining corp Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.03.20 20:07:00 - [1] I am starting this thread to ask CCP to explain SOV rules. Please explain why when one group puts up a majority of towers in a system, they then have to wait 5 days for sov to take place and to be able to take a station, but another group can come in , get MORE towers up then the first group, and get sov the very next DT. I have spent time reading up, and I do not understand. When A GM in the system was questioned, he said that if you get the most towers up, you MUST wait 5 days for sov. But we just lost 4 towers putting us in the minority, the opposing group immediatly got sov (at the next DT). This isn't a whine post, it is asking for an explanation of how it works
NotASerpinator	Posted - 2007.03.20 20:11:00 - [2] haha stop whining
Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.20 20:12:00 - [3] Did they, by chance, kill all your towers? Or does the number of their towers that has been there for 5 days outnumber your own?
She Storm Minmatar The Taining corp Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.03.20 20:22:00 - [4] No They killed our towers. And as I said this isn't a bash thread or a whine thread, I am asking for how the system works.
Marcus Aurelius Colossus Security Services	Posted - 2007.03.20 20:24:00 - [5] If you gain the majority of large towers by spamming you have to wait for 5 days untill you have the majority of large towers that have been claiming for 5 days or longer. If you gain teh majority of large towers by destroying the enemy towers, you gain sovereignty at the next downtime. destruction > spammage
She Storm Minmatar The Taining corp Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.03.20 20:28:00 - [6] Thank you Marcus, now if CCP would write it like that, instead of the "sterio instructions" that they have , I might have understood it
Camael Kuro Snow Flake Industries	Posted - 2007.03.20 20:29:00 - [7] Edited by: Camael Kuro on 20/03/2007 20:26:05 Originally by: Marcus Aurelius If you gain teh majority of large towers by destroying the enemy towers, you gain sovereignty at the next downtime. No, that doesn't make a difference from my experience. The only thing that makes a difference is who has the larger number of towers that have been in system 5 (or 6) downtimes already. So if you put up 1 POS, wait 4-5 days and then destroy all hostile towers, you get sov immediately.
Marcus Aurelius Colossus Security Services	Posted - 2007.03.20 20:31:00 - [8] Originally by: Camael Kuro Originally by: Marcus Aurelius If you gain teh majority of large towers by destroying the enemy towers, you gain sovereignty at the next downtime. No, that doesn't make a difference from my experience. The only thing that makes a difference is who has the larger number of towers that have been in system 5 (or 6) downtimes already. Thats what I mean. If you destroy towers and thus gain the majority of surviving 5-day old towers, you get sovereignty right away. If you spam towers they dont count for another 5 days and thus you need to wait at least 5 days. So, destruction > spammage. It's a pity ccp changed the rule that putting a tower into reinforced would ake it lose it's support for sovereignty and thus restart the 5 day timer.
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii	Posted - 2007.03.20 20:36:00 - [9] Originally by: Camael Kuro Edited by: Camael Kuro on 20/03/2007 20:26:05 Originally by: Marcus Aurelius If you gain teh majority of large towers by destroying the enemy towers, you gain sovereignty at the next downtime. No, that doesn't make a difference from my experience. The only thing that makes a difference is who has the larger number of towers that have been in system 5 (or 6) downtimes already. So if you put up 1 POS, wait 4-5 days and then destroy all hostile towers, you get sov immediately. This is the closest to the right answer. Normally I'd just let you wallow in your frustration (since your KOS) but you're a good kid, so I'll help. Each tower holds X amount of sov. However, you don't get "credit" for your towers sov until 5 downtimes has passed. When you launch a new tower, you have to wait for it go gain sov credit before you can contest sov. If a tower is destroyed, you immediately lose any sov credit it was holding. Examples: 1) You have 5 large towers that have been in system for a week. You opponent puts up 6 towers. After 5 days, they gain sov. 2) You have 5 large towers in system for 6 days. Your opponent has 4 towers for 6 days. Your opponent blows up 3 of your towers. They gain sov the next day. Hope that helps! PS. You also have to put fuel in them. -Wylker
Wyehr Shadow Of The Light R i s e	Posted - 2007.03.20 20:39:00 - [10] A tower starts claiming sovreignty 5 days after it is onlined, as long as there are no towers in the system larger than it. During downtime, if there is a single alliance with more towers claiming sovreignty than any other alliance, that alliance now has system sovreignty. If there is a tie, or if no alliance has any towers, the system sovreignty is nulled. The 5 day delay only happens when the tower comes on. A destroyed tower does not leave a ghost behind claiming sovreignty for 5 more days. [ 2007.03.18 18:45:59 ] (notify) Typhoon belonging to Gandolf self-destructs.
Moonlight Express Amarr Moonlight Express Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.20 20:54:00 - [11] Does a size of a tower matter? Can 10 small towers claim soverty if, let's say, 5 large hostile towers are online in system for 5 days?
Marcus Aurelius Colossus Security Services	Posted - 2007.03.20 20:56:00 - [12] large > medium > small numbers do not matter, 1 large beats 231648912369487 mediums.
Tharrn Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2007.10.12 12:51:00 - [13] Sorry 'bout the necro, but this thread is the closest the search function came up with. What if two parties have the same number of large towers but one party has some additional small towers? Do they count then or is sov nulled? CCP WRITE SOME FRACKIN' DOCUMENTATIONS :P Amarr Mineral Index

CCP Prism X	Posted - 2007.10.15 10:36:00 - [14] Right, my software director leaves a link to this topic in my mailbox so I can only assume that he wants me to spend today on the forums. Anywhos, I'll do my best to explain this properly. There's a decent number of exceptional cases and I might forget some of them as I coded this ages ago.. so bear with me and ask any questions you want. Firstly, as has been mentioned, we have three types of towers: small, medium and large. These towers have to be online for 5 days to start claiming sovereignty (Unless the alliance in question already has constellation sovereignty in the contested systems constellation, at which point it becomes 1 online day to start claim). Any number of a larger structure will win over any number of smaller structures and ties result in both parties losing. Also, Sov4 can never be lost regardless, first the invading alliance needs to take down the defending alliances constellation sovereignty which will revert the Sov4 system to Sov3. Here's an over complicated example: "Alliance A has nine thousand small towers in system X, which resides in constellation Z. Alliance B has ConSov in constellation Z and moves into system X to stake it's claim. They throw up a single medium tower and 1 day after they online it it will surpass Alliance A's claim because one medium > infinite number of smalls and due to them having ConSov in Xs constellation. Now Alliance C feels like throwing their weight about so they creep into system X and put up a single medium tower and manage to keep it hidden from Alliance B for 5 days after it's been onlined. Then the contest becomes 1 medium vs 1 medium, a tie. All parties lose their claim to the system and most likely Alliance B will have gained Sov2 in system X but that progress is now lost and either party will have to start from Sov1 if they manage to out-contest the other. Now Alliance A has doesn't like where this is going so they throw up another medium tower. Meanwhile C has decided to do what it takes to claim a bulwark into Bs territory so they throw up one large tower. Keep in mind that alliance B has constellation sovereignty so they only wait for 1 day for their tower to start claiming sovereignty. So, 1 day later the score is now 2meds v 1med in Bs favour. B gets Sovereignty 1. However, 4 days later B has taken out Cs medium tower but they've manage to keep their large one up. Now the score is 1 large vs 2 meds and in Cs favours. C gets Sov1." This is how the pong game of conquest between two contesting alliances is played out with the exception of Sovereignty 4 systems which are never lost while ConSov is retained. The move from Sovereignty 1 to Sovereignty 3 is straight-forward enough. If you hols Sov1 or Sov2 for 7 days it will be upgraded to the level above. Constellation Sovereignty will NOT speed up this process... nothing will. It will take you 14 days to move from Sov1 to Sov3, regardless. Now, once you have Sov3 in one system you can declare any player made station (NOT conquerable station, there was a bug which allowed players to set Conquerable stations as a capital station which has now been fixed) as your capital station for this constellation. Holding this station for 30 days is one of the requirements for Sovereignty 4, the other one being the claim of constellation sovereignty. ~ Prism X EvE 1337 Database Developer, Relocating your character to a cozy, giant secure container since 2006.


CCP Prism X	Posted - 2007.10.15 10:43:00 - [15] In order to gain constellation sovereignty you need to meet the following conditions for 14 days (or 1 day if you already had ConSov and someone conquered your stations/systems causing you to lose your claim which will give you a 7 day grace period to meet these conditions again, obviously you don't need to hold them for another 14 days during your 7 day grace): * Sovereignty 1 in MORE THAN 50% of the systems in the constellation. This is pretty much equal to having Sov3 over 50% of the systems. * Constellation Capital (see paragraph above) set. * A total of atleast 3 outposts controlled (conquerables included) in the constellation. This will take a minimum of 14 days from when Sov3 was claimed in the first system in the constellation. 16 days later the Constellation Capital will have existed for 30 days and you should already have constellation sovereignty which will then turn your Sov3 system containing the Capital station into a sov 4 system which effectively protects it from any counter-claim untill you've lost ConSov aswell as making your structures in said system unlockable. In order to lose ConSov you need to not meet the above conditions for seven days (we call this the grace period). If at any point during those seven days you regain whatever condition you lost you will instantly get ConSov again and nothing should be lost. I've probably forgotten something or not been clear enough on some issues so ask away. ~ Prism X EvE 1337 Database Developer, Relocating your character to a cozy, giant secure container since 2006.

Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.10.15 10:45:00 - [16] Edited by: Death Kill on 15/10/2007 10:45:48 Dude you had a sex change edit : Wtf I saw you had a female avatar! Call to arms!!!
Tharrn Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2007.10.15 10:48:00 - [17] Can you explain the reasoning why smaller towers don't count when there is a tie for the larger ones? Doesn't quite add up to me. Amarr Mineral Index
Tamia Clant New Dawn Corp New Eden Research	Posted - 2007.10.15 10:49:00 - [18] Originally by: Death Kill Edited by: Death Kill on 15/10/2007 10:45:48 Dude you had a sex change edit : Wtf I saw you had a female avatar! Took you a while to notice! Looking for queue-free research slots? Click here!

CCP Prism X	Posted - 2007.10.15 11:01:00 - [19] There are some errors in my explanation above due to me mixing up the old Sovereignty with the new sovereignty. Re-reading the procedure a couple of times before I post an errata. ~ Prism X EvE 1337 Database Developer, Relocating your character to a cozy, giant secure container since 2006.


CCP Prism X	Posted - 2007.10.15 11:09:00 - [20] Errata: Gaining Sovereignty 1 requires 7 days of online time, not 5 as in the old system. The exception to ConSov holders still applies. Gaining Sovereignty 2 requires 14 days of holding Sovereignty 1, not 7. Gaining Sovereignty 3 requires 14 days of holding Sovereignty 2, not 7. Hence, * Getting to Sov3 from Sov1 takes 28 days, not 14. * Holding Sovereingty 1 in +50% of constellation for 14 days = having Sov2 in 51% of the systems, not sovereignty 3. Will update my posts above accordingly and proceed to answer any questions I can. ~ Prism X EvE 1337 Database Developer, Relocating your character to a cozy, giant secure container since 2006.

sableye principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.15 11:11:00 - [21] wowo 4 dev posts in a necro thread :) Join The Fight With Promo Today

CCP Prism X	Posted - 2007.10.15 11:18:00 - [22] DK: Yes I had a sex change a long time ago. I accidently posted with my female character now named PrismX (as opposed to Prism X) and summarily deleted that post and reposted as the fuglier version of myself. Tharrn: Because building 1 large and 1 small tower is vastly cheaper than building 2 large towers. We want the defending alliance to make an economical choice of the same magnitude as the invading alliance, rather than just matching whatever the invaders have and throwing in an extra small tower. The choice of the invaders of using large towers hence means that the defender must defend with large towers aswell making each contested attempt more costly than if they had chosen small towers. This gives rich alliances a bit more of an edge which is intended. Sableye: I know it's from March but if there's still confusion it can't hurt to clear it up. Besides, I like lurking them forums and I just got an excuse from my director to do it.. who am I to say 'no' to that? ~ Prism X EvE 1337 Database Developer, Relocating your character to a cozy, giant secure container since 2006.

Koala Bare eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.10.15 11:31:00 - [23] I'd love to get a sex change myself as well ...
Tharrn Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2007.10.15 11:32:00 - [24] Has it crossed your mind that it encourages POS spamming rather than fights even more than we already see? If I had the choice to put up another tower or kill a small one I'd go for killing the small one. If I have the choice of putting up a large one or killing a large one I'll go for putting up another large one. (to the large alliances it probably doesn't matter, and as you stated those are whom you want to cater to, so... fair enough). Amarr Mineral Index
Tamia Clant New Dawn Corp New Eden Research	Posted - 2007.10.15 11:35:00 - [25] Originally by: Koala Bare I'd love to get a sex change myself as well ... This thread is now slightly disturbing. Looking for queue-free research slots? Click here!
Koala Bare eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.10.15 11:37:00 - [26] Originally by: Tamia Clant Originally by: Koala Bare I'd love to get a sex change myself as well ... This thread is now slightly disturbing. Well Prism brought it up .. if he can do it, why can't we :-) Or will we have to wait for Ambulation for someone to set up a shop where we can have our bits and pieces altered? :P

CCP Prism X	Posted - 2007.10.15 11:40:00 - [27] Edited by: CCP Prism X on 15/10/2007 11:44:29 We're not catering to them. Small rich alliances will still have an economical advantage over huge poor alliances. However, I have little say in design unless there are technical issues or optimisations in the implementation of the design. The very least I'll poke someone in GD and present your take on the issue. Who knows, maybe they agree with you or can use it to build on their own ideas. P.S. But I don't agree with the assumption that allowing smaller types to be used as tie-breakers will discourage POS spamming. It will just change it's nature to people spamming the tie-breaker types aswell to ensure that losing 10 wont matter. ~ Prism X EvE 1337 Database Developer, Relocating your character to a cozy, giant secure container since 2006.

Tharrn Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2007.10.15 11:46:00 - [28] Probably correct - maybe they can come up with something that encourages fighting over spamming in general though? I am a bit clueless what that could be myself though... Amarr Mineral Index
Koala Bare eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.10.15 11:47:00 - [29] Originally by: CCP Prism X pos stuff. oi, you missed the question on sex change :P You've got us hooked now :-)

CCP Prism X	Posted - 2007.10.15 11:55:00 - [30] Edited by: CCP Prism X on 15/10/2007 11:56:26 The sex change can be performed by any player right now in a few easy steps. 1) Delete your main character 2) Create a character of the opposing sex. 3) Name said character the same as your now deleted main character. 4) Use said character as your main. This would be exactly what I did, with the exception of a couple of Dev haxxorz to get my skill points back (I don't really know why, it's not like I use them). Seeing as you're not a Dev you can't do that so you'd probably not want to have one. ElCoCo: Yes, a tower of size X will beat infinite many towers of size X-1 or less. Unless it's in all caps, OVER NINE THOUSAND!!!!1one beats everything (I case people don't get this joke I'll explicitly state that this is a joke! This paragraph is only true up to the first full stop!!) ~ Prism X EvE 1337 Database Developer, Relocating your character to a cozy, giant secure container since 2006.


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