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Kwilyn Bathana
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2011.12.22 14:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
I wanted to share this because while there has been alot of good advice about PI in here I never saw a summary for a casual pilot wondering about PI ....if you see any mistakes please help me correct them.
This is a setup and summary for someone who wants to try PI without a huge commitment.
This level of commitment (what i call casual PI) requires these skills
Remote Sensing 3 Command Center Upgrades 2
This is what it costs to do this
Skill Books
Remote Sensing 250,000 Isk Command Center Upgrades 450,000
Bought from Market
Command Center 81,000
Planetary Infrastructure
Command Center Upgrade 1 580.000
Command Center Upgrade 2 930,000
Launchpad 900,000
Extractor Control Unit 45.000 x 2
Basic Industry Facility 75,000 x 2
Advanced Industry Facility 250,000
Total 3,681,000 isk
You can see my setup with 3 extractor heads each at
http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m498/harescramble/20111222105035.jpg
I used the "Launch Pad Centric" style of building where the launch pad acts as the storage facility and everything is routed thru it.
The Command Center is out of the screenshot but its there and not connected.
The return on the investment
The one Advanced factory will make 120 tier 2 refined commodities per day.
Taxes to export a unit of tier 2 in highsec are 10% of 9000 isk or 900 isk per unit. So 120 x 900 isk = 108,000 isk
Lets say the tier 2 item (in my case Enriched Uranium) sells for 10,000 isk per unit
120 tier 2 units per day x 10,000 isk market value = 1,200,000 isk per day
( 1,200,000 isk ) minus ( export taxes of 108,000 isk ) minus ( 1% market sales tax ) = 1,081,080 per day profit.
That will pay off the initial investment in 4 days and add over a million isk per day to wallet.
Note on making this setup better
There is also a way to gain a minor increase in production. Using 3 extractor heads will cause the raw material to slowly build up excess in the Launch Pad. Another Basic Industry Facility can be placed by lowering one Extractor to 2 heads. However this requires monitoring the setup and making changes depending on which material is needed or in excess - pretty much defeating the whole concept of "casual PI" Casual PI will usually lead to missing a few hours here and there and if that doesn't use up the excess raw materials i can deliberately let the timer elapse on the 3 extractor heads setup. I don't believe it's worth exporting the raw materials. |
SeaSaw
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.12.22 16:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
PI is a real number, however in Hi-Sec it is represented as a rational number (even CCP can't store PI as anything but a rational approximation of its real value).
your humble servent SeaSaw |
Ninyania alCladdyth
McLuvin AstroDynamics
6
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Posted - 2011.12.22 16:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
"Casual PI"
Is that like when you just multiply by 3 to get a rough approximation, instead of 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028 ?
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Mazimillius
The BlackHand Of Nod
0
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Posted - 2011.12.22 17:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
What does the routing look like? I've got a Gas Extractor CU routed to my Launch Pad(LP) that's routed to my Gas Basic Industry Facility(GBIF),
Extractor: extracting base betals and routed to LP
Launch Pad: routed to GBIF
GBIF: producing Reactive Metals and routing back to LP
Is this an appropriate set-up?
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Kwilyn Bathana
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2011.12.22 17:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mazimillius wrote:What does the routing look like? I've got a Gas Extractor CU routed to my Launch Pad(LP) that's routed to my Gas Basic Industry Facility(GBIF),
Extractor: extracting base betals and routed to LP
Launch Pad: routed to GBIF
GBIF: producing Reactive Metals and routing back to LP
Is this an appropriate set-up?
Yes that is how the routing works. You are producing a tier 1 product and doing a quick bit of math using 4,700 isk as market value
I see why you posted.
Player controled markets never seem to make sense to me but producing a tier 1 product like you are doing seems far more profitable. Interplanetary Consolidation trained to lvl 2 would seem to be keeping in the spirit of "casual PI" so i'll grab that and you'll see me at the nearest gas planet soon. |
Mazimillius
The BlackHand Of Nod
0
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Posted - 2011.12.22 17:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
So I would want to put in another GBIF that produces a complementary "item" that I could then combine with the initial GBIF in an Advanced Facility to produce a T2 item?
Is there a "handy-dandy" chart that would tell me what I needed to produce at the basic level to make something worthwhile at the advanced level? |
Kwilyn Bathana
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2011.12.22 17:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mazimillius wrote:So I would want to put in another GBIF that produces a complementary "item" that I could then combine with the initial GBIF in an Advanced Facility to produce a T2 item?
Is there a "handy-dandy" chart that would tell me what I needed to produce at the basic level to make something worthwhile at the advanced level?
try http://www.hst-soft.de/korai/Eve_PI_Diagrams_v1_4.pdf |
Mazimillius
The BlackHand Of Nod
0
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Posted - 2011.12.22 18:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
ok, so I'm doing this on a completely different planet.
I have: Barren Extractor Control Unit (BECU) x 2; Barren Basic Industry Facility (BBIF) x 2; Barren Advanced Industry Facility (BAIF); and a Launch Pad (LP)
Each BECU routes to it's own BBIF, one is pulling Base Metal and converting it to Reactive Metals, the other BBIF is pulling Nobel Metals and converting it to Precious Metals
Both BBIF route to a BAIF which is producing Mechanical Parts that get routed to a LP
I have officially blown almost 20 million ISK trying to figure this out. Frustration sucks.
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Invictra Atreides
Toward the Terra
16
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Posted - 2011.12.22 18:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
I didn't think anyone would use 2x ECUs on a sigle planet in HighSec.
This setup would fill up a Launch Pad in 55 days. LoL that is extream casual ^_^ I always assumed that players in HighSec produce P1 items. A Launch Pad lasts for 8-9 days and the profits are from 1.368.000 ISK/day to 1.800.000 ISK/day. I don't know if that counts as casual tho. |
Kwilyn Bathana
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2011.12.22 18:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
Mazimillius wrote:
I have officially blown almost 20 million ISK trying to figure this out, and I have no idea how long it will take for this PI set up to pay for the trial and error; but I'm thinking it's going to be a long while.
Anyone know of a "lucrative" advanced level item to make that requires minimal financial input?
Perhaps you didn't find the Launch Pad Centric setup on new forums when you where reading about PI before trying it, alot of good info was dropped off the map in the recent forum change - my advice is always use google or some other web search for what you want. Like....Eve PI guide would work...i'm not putting down the new forum but the search inforum will greatly restrict your info. |
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Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
31
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Posted - 2011.12.22 18:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
http://fazenda.w-space.org/
is a nice tool if you want to asses what makes what etc.
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
Mazimillius
The BlackHand Of Nod
0
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Posted - 2011.12.22 18:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
1. How did you figure all that out?
2. Would doing PI in low sec be more productive
3. Would you use more ECUs?
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Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
31
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Posted - 2011.12.22 18:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
Invictra Atreides wrote: I always assumed that players in HighSec produce P1 items.
I have 4 planets producing T2, the plan is to convert to a P4 on a 5 planet, though I need to do my 'feasabiltiy study' first. ie how much more profitable would that be than just selling my P2's.
I suppose I might be doing it 'wrong' though maybe the money is better just pumping low tier.
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
31
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Posted - 2011.12.22 18:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
Mazimillius wrote:1. How did you figure all that out?
2. Would doing PI in low sec be more productive
3. Would you use more ECUs?
1. I leave to the OP
2. Yes your extrtaction rate is higher.
3. No though you would maybe need more processing facilities to take account of extra output.
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
Mazimillius
The BlackHand Of Nod
0
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Posted - 2011.12.22 18:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
. No though you would maybe need more processing facilities to take account of extra output.
I'm confused by this statement...
it seems that each additional step away from the extraction process whittles down the resource produced. so by the time it gets to an advanced facility two extractors can feed one advanced facility through two basic facilities. but then I could be wrong. |
Ninyania alCladdyth
McLuvin AstroDynamics
7
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Posted - 2011.12.22 18:44:00 -
[16] - Quote
Mazimillius wrote:ok, so I'm doing this on a completely different planet.
I have: Barren Extractor Control Unit (BECU) x 2; Barren Basic Industry Facility (BBIF) x 2; Barren Advanced Industry Facility (BAIF); and a Launch Pad (LP)
Each BECU routes to it's own BBIF, one is pulling Base Metal and converting it to Reactive Metals, the other BBIF is pulling Nobel Metals and converting it to Precious Metals
Both BBIF route to a BAIF which is producing Mechanical Parts that get routed to a LP
I have officially blown almost 20 million ISK trying to figure this out, and I have no idea how long it will take for this PI set up to pay for the trial and error; but I'm thinking it's going to be a long while.
Anyone know of a "lucrative" advanced level item to make that requires minimal financial input?
DO NOT route your extractors directly into a factory - if you do, then any time an extractor cycle generates more material than your factory can immediately hold (3000 being refined + 3000 in the queue), you *LOSE* that material.
Route everything in-to/out-of the launchpad - extractors, BIFs, AIFs, all of it.
Extractor ---> LP ---> BiF ---> Same LP ---> AIF ---> Same LP |
electrostatus
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
28
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Posted - 2011.12.22 19:59:00 -
[17] - Quote
If you wish to figure out costs, taxes and profits on your PI products, I recommend this program. PI Profit Calculator: calculates your profits and taxes of any PI product depending on how you built them! |
Alain Kinsella
13
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Posted - 2011.12.24 04:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:Invictra Atreides wrote: I always assumed that players in HighSec produce P1 items.
I have 4 planets producing P2, the plan is to convert to a P4 on a 5 planet, though I need to do my 'feasabiltiy study' first. ie how much more profitable would that be than just selling my P2's. I suppose I might be doing it 'wrong' though maybe the money is better just pumping low tier.
I also produce P2 products using two different P1 planet types (dedicating towards one POS fuel). I've just re-done the setup to have one of the P1 planets (with the more abundant product) also be the factory planet for this P2, and freed up a planet slot for something else.
This was partially possible since the character in question has Upgrades V, but can work with IV to a lesser degree now that the links have been massively buffed.
Using a 7-day cycle (checking in every 3-4 days to re-stock and monitor hotspot movements), its generating about 1.5-2 Mil a day (after tax). This was actually generating about half that, but the increase in taxes (and the subsequent larger market rise) has been a boon once things settled down post-release.
That's currently 500-600K ISK per planet (3) which ain't bad, and that could rise soon - one of the less abundant planets has begun to rise a bit in output for some reason (allowing a balance between two planets, which would be really nice).
I may have come here from Myst Online, but that does not make me any less bloodthirsty than the average Eve player.
Just more subtle.
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Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
35
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Posted - 2011.12.24 08:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
Mazimillius wrote:. No though you would maybe need more processing facilities to take account of extra output.
I'm confused by this statement...
it seems that each additional step away from the extraction process whittles down the resource produced. so by the time it gets to an advanced facility two extractors can feed one advanced facility through two basic facilities. but then I could be wrong.
If you do PI in low sec each ECU creates more product, so you don't need more of them, What you might need is more basic processors.
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
Velicitia
Open Designs
233
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Posted - 2011.12.24 13:16:00 -
[20] - Quote
Mazimillius wrote:. No though you would maybe need more processing facilities to take account of extra output.
I'm confused by this statement...
it seems that each additional step away from the extraction process whittles down the resource produced. so by the time it gets to an advanced facility two extractors can feed one advanced facility through two basic facilities. but then I could be wrong.
Using fake numbers here, to keep things simple.
let's say with an 15 minute long extraction cycle (24 hour full job cycle), you can extract up to 50k units of a P0 (say Base Metals) with an ECU with 5 heads. After letting your full job finish (24 hours), we'll say you get a grand total of 200k units of P0 in hisec.
Running that same setup in lowsec, you get the same 50k unit spike at the beginning, but the gradual decline of resources is slower, so you get say 300k units of Base Metals.
You would need enough BIF (or storage space) to handle the extra 100k units of Base Metals that you're extracting daily. |
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Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
59
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Posted - 2011.12.24 16:16:00 -
[21] - Quote
Just completed my first 48 hours of High Sec PI since 'The Change".
2 Toons: 9 planets pulling, one planet manufacturing.
Assembling POS Fuel Components only through Robotics.
The pathetic amount pulled in High Sec (I'm used to Low until recently) assembled about 12,000,000 Market value of product....and the total taxes with all the Import/Export was FREAKING 4,500,000 !!
WHAT RL Industrialist would EVER tolerate over 33% TAX on his product ???
I felt like I was bailing my PI out of JAIL !!!!
Game is STILL broken.........(lol) OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra Gallente Federation
103
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Posted - 2011.12.25 11:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Just completed my first 48 hours of High Sec PI since 'The Change".
2 Toons: 9 planets pulling, one planet manufacturing.
Assembling POS Fuel Components only through Robotics.
The pathetic amount pulled in High Sec (I'm used to Low until recently) assembled about 12,000,000 Market value of product....and the total taxes with all the Import/Export was FREAKING 4,500,000 !!
WHAT RL Industrialist would EVER tolerate over 33% TAX on his product ???
I felt like I was bailing my PI out of JAIL !!!!
Game is STILL broken.........(lol)
"I get less free ISK per day for my minimal efforts, the game is broken".
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Lauren Hellfury
Full Pocket Aggro In Vitro.
50
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Posted - 2011.12.25 13:12:00 -
[23] - Quote
Actually he's just doing it very wrong.
2 days, 10 planets -> 12M of product, 4.5M of taxes.
2 days, 10 planets -> 7.5M profit
1 day, 10 planets -> 3.75M profit
1 day, 1 planet -> 375k profit.
Doing what worked before does not work now. I'd strongly suggest that he goes read the first page of this thread, hell even the OP would do, but I'm guessing that is probably a little beyond him.
Anyways, 'appy crimbo |
Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
6
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Posted - 2011.12.25 13:14:00 -
[24] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: The pathetic amount pulled in High Sec (I'm used to Low until recently) assembled about 12,000,000 Market value of product....and the total taxes with all the Import/Export was FREAKING 4,500,000 !!
WHAT RL Industrialist would EVER tolerate over 33% TAX on his product ???
try Europe |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
59
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Posted - 2011.12.25 15:29:00 -
[25] - Quote
Lauren Hellfury wrote:Actually he's just doing it very wrong.
2 days, 10 planets -> 12M of product, 4.5M of taxes.
That is indeed over 33% Tax. Just sayin'.
Finished the first 48 hours of PI, and the actual figure so far is (with import/export for next batch, etc.) is:
27.28% for High Sec. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Lauren Hellfury
Full Pocket Aggro In Vitro.
50
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Posted - 2011.12.25 16:18:00 -
[26] - Quote
Pretty sure my main point was that you are hauling stuff around along with the other clickyness for a truly pathetic amount of profit per planet per day.
Pretty sure my secondary point was that you have issues with reading.
Nurse! More alcohol!! |
Kwilyn Bathana
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2011.12.25 19:41:00 -
[27] - Quote
Lauren Hellfury wrote:Pretty sure my main point was that you are hauling stuff around along with the other clickyness for a truly pathetic amount of profit per planet per day. Nurse! More alcohol!!
I too suspect there is exporting / hauling going on here.....were the planets chosen to allow tier 3 products to be built on planet ?
I instinctively shied away from exporting mats because of taxes, now like another poster said the monoculture approach to PI may not work. Now exporting the highest tier finished product you can may be best.
I'm going to train command center upgrades 3 and continue the "Casual PI" approach and report what I get. The Casual PI i use means you let the planet run it self as much as possible - a minimum of effort and input, the PI is just a suplemental income. |
Alain Kinsella
13
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Posted - 2011.12.26 03:17:00 -
[28] - Quote
Kwilyn Bathana wrote: I instinctively shied away from exporting mats because of taxes, now like another poster said the monoculture approach to PI may not work. Now exporting the highest tier finished product you can may be best.
This is very possible with the P2 I'm working on (IIRC two different planet types can produce it completely). The reason I'm not is that I found a planet with an obnoxious abundance level (about 40% on the bar) of one of the P0. Gems like that are still exploitable with paired planets.
I will continue to suggest Upgrades IV. It made sense in the first iteration of PI for the same reasons it does now. It will make even more sense if CCP will please give us a reason to use the Storage PIN again.
I may have come here from Myst Online, but that does not make me any less bloodthirsty than the average Eve player.
Just more subtle.
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Van Upier
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.12.26 08:23:00 -
[29] - Quote
I've been scanning planets around to start up some PI - but so far I've never found anything close to the one in the pic in the OP. I mean, I've never seen a white area, not even a red. MAYBE a bit of green. Are my settings wrong? Or are there no decent spots on planets left by now? |
Kwilyn Bathana
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2011.12.26 08:33:00 -
[30] - Quote
Van Upier wrote:I've been scanning planets around to start up some PI - but so far I've never found anything close to the one in the pic in the OP. I mean, I've never seen a white area, not even a red. MAYBE a bit of green. Are my settings wrong? Or are there no decent spots on planets left by now?
When you view the planet press the scan button, a colored bar is directly under it now. Grab the triangle at the right end of the colored bar with your left mouse button and drag it to the left to adjust scan resolution.
Also right click the planet and choose "Show other characters' networks" so you don't set your extractors on top of someone else's - unless you are going for pvp PI. |
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