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Exactly how safe is null sec supposed to be, anyhow?

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Ingvar Angst Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United 774	Posted - 2011.12.22 16:30:00 - [1] - Quote If you'll take a moment to look in this thread here, especially around pages 11 on, you'll see that a main complaint is that it makes null sec less safe for carebears. This got me to wondering... Just exactly how safe is null sec supposed to be anyhow? Is there supposed to be a constant degree of danger involved, should there be a point where it's safe enough for the cariest of carebears to carebear away in peace? Opinions? Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Topaz Sky 3	Posted - 2011.12.22 16:35:00 - [2] - Quote Well, they get literally trillions from moon minerals, not many people go there. Their biggest complaint is AFK people using a cloak. I think CCP wants it to be a super rich island fortress for botting, which they can then conduct high sec raids from, killing "stupid pubic hairs" mining. That's CCP's effective design policy at least.
Morganta Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia 598	Posted - 2011.12.22 16:37:00 - [3] - Quote presumably about as safe as a back alley in Tijuana you may do just fine, you may wake up in a tub of ice with one of your kidneys missing. The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy
Lady Spank GET OUT NASTY FACE 579	Posted - 2011.12.22 16:40:00 - [4] - Quote It's currently 100% safe for non-retards and I'm glad CCP have acknowledged this are finally doing something to address perfect immunity via local. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â) GÖÑ Inactive 21/12 unltil the new year, seasons greetings GÖÑ
Jaroslav Unwanted Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 152	Posted - 2011.12.22 16:48:00 - [5] - Quote Lady Spank wrote: It's currently 100% safe for non-retards and I'm glad CCP have acknowledged this are finally doing something to address perfect immunity via local. you wish. Nothing gonna be changed about such with CSM around, and i actually dont want it changed. Null is player driven, and if players ****** up and make null bad, more people will leave null or game, and power will shift. Thats how it is.
J Kunjeh 100	Posted - 2011.12.22 16:48:00 - [6] - Quote As currently designed? Very, very safe. Hence the nickname Nullbears. "The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5)-á
Petrus Blackshell Rifterlings 84	Posted - 2011.12.22 17:04:00 - [7] - Quote Everyone's got a different opinion and vision of nullsec, but the general consensus is "less safe than lowsec or hisec" (except those silly few who maintain lowsec is more dangerous than nullsec). Because nullsec is player owned, this is natural. Many people have also had very different experiences of nullsec, so it means very different things to them. For example, contrast the NAPfest existing in the bearing areas of the biggest coalitions with the crazy nature of Curse. Contrast the "safety" that CVA offers its renters with the safety that Goonswarm can offer its carebears. Carebearing is different, too, because of the varying resources available. PvP is also different: compare the "suddenly blob" nature of CFC "small" fleets, to the carefully measured few-ship gangs in other regions, and again to the (now diminished) supercap hotdrop. In all these instances, though, a certain amount of vigilance is needed to stay "safe" while carebearing (albeit to different degrees). You see a red in local? Align / safe up / cloak up / dock up. That requires 2-3 clicks at maximum, and passively watching local to see if you're in trouble. The "remove cloaked people from local" idea effectively removes the carebear's most effective intel tool. They would now have to watch intel channels, directional scan, be active in standing fleets, and in general be a lot less hands-off to make sure they don't suddenly get a Pilgrim dropping on top of them. This requires skills and tactics that most nullbears do not have. It makes things complicated. Oh, and of course, anyone with a bot would also be vehemently opposed to anything of this sort. To many, this just is not worth it. They want to see their wallet balance increase without effort or risk, and will likely move back to hisec to achieve that. My opinion? You should not be safe in 0.0 without knowing what the hell you're doing. However, cloaks should also not be an "easy-mode" button in PvP, but can be solved by the possible/probable standing fleets made for defense. A ganky Pilgrim might be able to take a ratting battleship down, but can it take down 2-3 of them at the same time? Probably not. Or, worse: a cloaky home defense gang.
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 335	Posted - 2011.12.22 17:33:00 - [8] - Quote Here's the deal. If you try to get to null without being in an alliance or corp that controls or rents, you will die in the Great Wall of Carebear. I write any times that this wall has bears on BOTH sides. The risk, or hardpoint of null, is that wall. If you use wormholes to get past this wall, you will end up deep in null systems so deserted you could rat or explore for weeks without seeing anybody else in local. That's the best case and I have had this happen twice. In most deep null systems you might see someone every few days or you might see a roaming gang or patrol from time to time. On the other end of the spectrum, you could end up in a pipeline or hubbed system where they will bubble every gate and make every attempt to provide a fire for you to die in. Smack talk in Russian might also be provided. What's really interesting, and this is from two years of my own experience, is that once you get past the wall, you are also getting past the "intel network" and scouts too. Deep null is so scarecely populated that unless they have the abiility to know where everybody is (they meaning the people already there who "own" it) and keep constant track of where people should not be, nobody will know enough of your presence to care. Only once have I seen a case where they were like "hey, how did this guy get here? Must have been a wormhole!!!1!! Kill kill kill!" Later I would see on the killboards that they found the wormhole and proceeded to make life miserable for the people already in there. You'd think they never perceived that a wormhole could deposit somebody, anybody, into any system at any time before, like it was some new breach of security. But again, I experienced myself that once you breach "the wall" and hit a deserted system, you can fill your hold with exploration goodies, and then find a WH back to high sec. Sometimes the crossing using wormholes can take a week or two, sometimes it can take 10 minutes.
Petrus Blackshell Rifterlings 84	Posted - 2011.12.22 17:39:00 - [9] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: ~ Wormholes are awesome ~ Yes, they are. And most of 0.0 is indeed really deserted. However, to take advantage of that you have to know how to actually fly your ship, unlike most Eve players who appear to believe they are entitled to an effort-free constant income source.
Abdiel Kavash Paladin Order Fidelas Constans 224	Posted - 2011.12.22 17:57:00 - [10] - Quote As safe - or as dangerous - as its owners make it.
Xolve Intaki Armaments Important Internet Spaceship League 294	Posted - 2011.12.22 18:11:00 - [11] - Quote All that is required for any sec space to be 'safe' is for pilots there to pay attention and react accordingly... not just sit there oblivious to local, intel, flashing red boxy things.. Obviously the larger the coalition you belong to is, the safer you tend to be. Null will always have roaming gangs, there will always be the solo artists that arn't afraid of your 7-10 man gate camp, and there will always be the roaming blobs that gate-bait annihilate everything dumb enough to jump into them. Lady Spank for C&P Moderator.
Weaselior GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1881	Posted - 2011.12.22 19:08:00 - [12] - Quote nullsec isn't supposed to be safe the issue is a good balance of reward vs risk; you want there to be people to murder. just increasing the risk with no increase in reward drives people out, and then everyone gets bored because there's no ratters or miners to kill there's currently not enough people to murder so you want to tweak the balance in favor of more reward (and here, you're talking low-level reward - things that get people into belts, not things like moons or PI) rather than in favor of more risk if you increase reward enough, then you can safely increase risk as well
Cipher Jones 188	Posted - 2011.12.22 19:29:00 - [13] - Quote All of New Eden is relatively safe for experienced, intelligent pilots. So about 15% of the server population. See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die.
Lady Spank GET OUT NASTY FACE 582	Posted - 2011.12.22 23:21:00 - [14] - Quote Jaroslav Unwanted wrote: Lady Spank wrote: It's currently 100% safe for non-retards and I'm glad CCP have acknowledged this are finally doing something to address perfect immunity via local. you wish. Nothing gonna be changed about such with CSM around, and i actually dont want it changed. Null is player driven, and if players ****** up and make null bad, more people will leave null or game, and power will shift. Thats how it is. Except the part where they are working on it; no matter how soonTM that may be implemented. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â) GÖÑ Inactive 21/12 unltil the new year, seasons greetings GÖÑ
Jaroslav Unwanted Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 153	Posted - 2011.12.22 23:23:00 - [15] - Quote Weaselior wrote: nullsec isn't supposed to be safe the issue is a good balance of reward vs risk; you want there to be people to murder. just increasing the risk with no increase in reward drives people out, and then everyone gets bored because there's no ratters or miners to kill there's currently not enough people to murder so you want to tweak the balance in favor of more reward (and here, you're talking low-level reward - things that get people into belts, not things like moons or PI) rather than in favor of more risk if you increase reward enough, then you can safely increase risk as well to add give me my sanctums back
Jaroslav Unwanted Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 153	Posted - 2011.12.22 23:25:00 - [16] - Quote Lady Spank wrote: Jaroslav Unwanted wrote: Lady Spank wrote: It's currently 100% safe for non-retards and I'm glad CCP have acknowledged this are finally doing something to address perfect immunity via local. you wish. Nothing gonna be changed about such with CSM around, and i actually dont want it changed. Null is player driven, and if players ****** up and make null bad, more people will leave null or game, and power will shift. Thats how it is. Except the part where they are working on it; no matter how soonTM that may be implemented. Well yes. Easy fix is just to ninja disband all alliances and reset all setting with some assets dissapearing shenanigans, include roles remove. If its safe or not is entirely in the hand of overlords. They invested their time and resources to make it so..
Lady Spank GET OUT NASTY FACE 582	Posted - 2011.12.22 23:30:00 - [17] - Quote Which part of via local do you not understand. Pretty tired of moronic NPC alt posters. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â) GÖÑ Inactive 21/12 unltil the new year, seasons greetings GÖÑ
Jojo Jackson Dead Red Eye 24	Posted - 2011.12.22 23:32:00 - [18] - Quote Weaselior wrote: there's currently not enough people to murder so you want to tweak the balance in favor of more reward Just remove blue standings and lower corp/ally size. No wonder when you have not enough targets when you soke up every soul and blue the rest. OT: far to save when you are part of one of the mega blobs (rusian mafia, raiden, goons) espezialy when goons aren't in 00 but suizid highsec miners or now PODs. Solution: max corp size 200 members max ally size 5 corps max blues 3 That's still 3000 all together. Bam, enough targets for everybody . And no, you do NOT have 6000 FRIENDS! You might have 3 to 10 real friends ... the rest are alts, people someone know who is known by a friend. Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Jaroslav Unwanted Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 153	Posted - 2011.12.22 23:33:00 - [19] - Quote Lady Spank wrote: Which part of via local do you not understand. Pretty tired of moronic NPC alt posters. And you care why ? Because you are weaker and your opponent is too strong.. Crying because you cant defeat them is really pathetic.. HTFU ..
Metal Icarus xHELLonEARTHx Rookie Empire 26	Posted - 2011.12.22 23:39:00 - [20] - Quote I am not sure where everyone got this "0.0 is safe" and "0.0 is where you get moon minerals" wtf its not like all of 0.0 is like the north. The south is comparativly worthless and now we get NC running around ready to drop 50 players on command. Ratting is good money, LOCAL exploration is good money, thats about it. Anywhere beyond that is EXTREMLY risky. To those that think "well it should have no local or local should be nuked" have never been in a small alliance caught in between 5 massive trains on a collision course... How SAFE is it supposed to be? I did not know safe could be used in the same sentence as nullsec. WHY IS SUCH WORTHLESS SPACE UNDER SO MUCH CONFLICT?! Go up north and fight over your god damned moons! even provi is has more conflict than the north right now.
Ladie Harlot GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1075	Posted - 2011.12.22 23:44:00 - [21] - Quote Metal Icarus wrote: WHY IS SUCH WORTHLESS SPACE UNDER SO MUCH CONFLICT?! I figured that the small-gang e-honor retards all got together and ended up down there for ~wulfpax~ and ~gudfites~. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Yuki Crowfeet EVE Information and Entertainment Service 51	Posted - 2011.12.22 23:51:00 - [22] - Quote I've been flying around the north (Geminate, Vale, Venal and Branch) as a complete neutral with no standings at all and the only times I've been podded when I didn't want to be was due to bubbles. In my limited experience it's been pretty safe and mostly empty. Although I hear the south is somewhat more dangerous. The 0.0 Investigation - My adventure through 0.0 discovering the pilots and talking to them about their experiences. In-game channel: EIES
Xolve Intaki Armaments Important Internet Spaceship League 304	Posted - 2011.12.23 00:08:00 - [23] - Quote Metal Icarus wrote: even provi is has more conflict than the north right now. Quoted for confusion. Lady Spank for C&P Moderator.
Lady Spank GET OUT NASTY FACE 583	Posted - 2011.12.23 00:24:00 - [24] - Quote Jaroslav Unwanted wrote: Lady Spank wrote: Which part of via local do you not understand. Pretty tired of moronic NPC alt posters. And you care why ? Because you are weaker and your opponent is too strong.. Crying because you cant defeat them is really pathetic.. HTFU .. I post on these discussions with the game in mind, not personal issues. I don't hunt PVE players nor do I PVE much myself. I have the development of New Eden in my heart while you appear to have shitposting as your goal. Gtfo. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â) GÖÑ Inactive 21/12 unltil the new year, seasons greetings GÖÑ
Shellshock Bob Hedion University Amarr Empire 43	Posted - 2011.12.23 00:25:00 - [25] - Quote I've never had any problems moving around as i wanted. Both in a null alliance and not. TBH i feel safer in null than i do highsec. never know who's going to gank you for the lulz in high. In Regards to the OP...how safe SHOULD null be? In my opinion, It should be as safe as the players make it. Have a standing defense fleet in system? your indy/ratters should be safe then. cant be arsed to defend your own space? well then you deserve any roaming gangs/cloakers that come your way.
Jaroslav Unwanted Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 153	Posted - 2011.12.23 00:27:00 - [26] - Quote Lady Spank wrote: Jaroslav Unwanted wrote: Lady Spank wrote: Which part of via local do you not understand. Pretty tired of moronic NPC alt posters. And you care why ? Because you are weaker and your opponent is too strong.. Crying because you cant defeat them is really pathetic.. HTFU .. I post on these discussions with the game in mind, not personal issues. I don't hunt PVE players nor do I PVE much myself. I have the development of New Eden in my heart while you appear to have shitposting as your goal. Gtfo. Well, for me it seems your only goal is to increase your self-esteem by trying to belittle other posters with meaningless non-sense. Just another nobody who doing exactly same thing as other posters, yet thinks its superior to others.. Sorry GTFO
Ladie Harlot GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1075	Posted - 2011.12.23 00:30:00 - [27] - Quote Jaroslav Unwanted wrote: Just another nobody who doing exactly same thing as other posters This is your best post yet, Jaroslav. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Jaroslav Unwanted Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 153	Posted - 2011.12.23 00:31:00 - [28] - Quote Ladie Harlot wrote: Jaroslav Unwanted wrote: Just another nobody who doing exactly same thing as other posters This is your best post yet, Jaroslav. Thanks /signed just another nobody
Adelphie Paradox Collective 45	Posted - 2011.12.23 00:51:00 - [29] - Quote Let's put it this way - 3 years ago if I was on my own in null looking for targets I found myself from time to time literally shaking with adrenaline due to the risk of the unknown. Now it is so quiet I can swan around like I'm the boss of an entire region. In null it seems to me that safety should be player engineered, through teamwork, tactics and dare I say it numbers. If your allies make your space safe then so be it - if you are in hostile space then it should be just that.
Marlona Sky Caldari Provisions Caldari State 206	Posted - 2011.12.23 01:26:00 - [30] - Quote Due to the current game mechanics; null space is by far the safest part of the game if you in one of the super nap trains. Flight of a Thousand Rifters: A Player Event
Scatim Helicon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 151	Posted - 2011.12.23 01:35:00 - [31] - Quote Jojo Jackson wrote: Weaselior wrote: there's currently not enough people to murder so you want to tweak the balance in favor of more reward Just remove blue standings and lower corp/ally size. No wonder when you have not enough targets when you soke up every soul and blue the rest. OT: far to save when you are part of one of the mega blobs (rusian mafia, raiden, goons) espezialy when goons aren't in 00 but suizid highsec miners or now PODs. Solution: max corp size 200 members max ally size 5 corps max blues 3 That's still 3000 all together. Bam, enough targets for everybody . And no, you do NOT have 6000 FRIENDS! You might have 3 to 10 real friends ... the rest are alts, people someone know who is known by a friend. You can't force people to shoot those they don't want to shoot just because they're playing the game differently to how you want them to, soz m8
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 335	Posted - 2011.12.23 01:59:00 - [32] - Quote Lady Spank wrote: Jaroslav Unwanted wrote: Lady Spank wrote: Which part of via local do you not understand. Pretty tired of moronic NPC alt posters. And you care why ? Because you are weaker and your opponent is too strong.. Crying because you cant defeat them is really pathetic.. HTFU .. I post on these discussions with the game in mind, not personal issues. I don't hunt PVE players nor do I PVE much myself. I have the development of New Eden in my heart while you appear to have shitposting as your goal. Gtfo. Just don't get caught in a pimped incursus around Spank or you are going to get it.
AlleyKat The Unwanted. 54	Posted - 2011.12.23 02:13:00 - [33] - Quote It's as safe as you make it. Flying from Jita to YZ-LQL in a faction-fit Raven will get you killed most days of the week and twice on Sundays. Taking a shuttle at non-peak hours, and using the map, any intel you can muster; can get you there in one piece - long enough to setup a clone. AK GÇ£You go into combat, and itGÇÖs NOT going to be WagnerGÇªindustrial techno or really hard drum and bassGÇ¥ Reynir Hardarson, founding member of CCP Games, 2002.
Jenshae Chiroptera 276	Posted - 2011.12.23 02:58:00 - [34] - Quote Topaz Sky wrote: Well, they get literally trillions from moon minerals, not many people go there. Their biggest complaint is AFK people using a cloak. I think CCP wants it to be a super rich island fortress for botting, which they can then conduct high sec raids from, killing "stupid pubic hairs" mining. That's CCP's effective design policy at least. Oh pubbies is pubic hair! I was reading it as pub-bies and puppies, spelt funny. Meh, if I am pubic hair then they are the crabs that get in it. Ideas and stuff EVE - the game of sand castles, either building them or kicking them down.
Karn Dulake Souls Must Be Trampled The.Alliance 161	Posted - 2011.12.23 04:09:00 - [35] - Quote The only dangerous part of nullsec is jumping through a gate without a scout. Apart from that its completely safe it can just be tedious to make you constant checks when moving around an unknown system if you are used to high/lowsec. Something Awful. A beacon for tearful, lonely neckbeards.
Jaroslav Unwanted Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 153	Posted - 2011.12.23 04:34:00 - [36] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Just don't get caught in a pimped incursus around Spank or you are going to get it. Thanks for warning But i hardly log on these days. And actually yes i did missed invulnerability provided by local in Lady Spank first post, dont know i just didnt saw it. Happens some times. Brain is ******. On the other hand remove local in null crowd i can live without.
Asuri Kinnes Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy 94	Posted - 2011.12.23 05:42:00 - [37] - Quote Petrus Blackshell wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: ~ Wormholes are awesome ~ Yes, they are. And most of 0.0 is indeed really deserted. Confirming that YES indeed, WH's are the shiznit! My sig says why! Wormholes: The NEW end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs. NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA!
Ioci Space Mermaids 21	Posted - 2011.12.23 07:00:00 - [38] - Quote North is safe? I thought Russians took the north. 4 drag bubbles on every gate, 5 if its a pipe.
First Lieutenant Dan Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 30	Posted - 2011.12.23 07:12:00 - [39] - Quote It's called peace time. Anarchy will rise
Scatim Helicon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 151	Posted - 2011.12.24 18:09:00 - [40] - Quote Karn Dulake wrote: The only dangerous part of nullsec is jumping through a gate without a scout.. In other words, nullsec is so dangerous that you need to scout every gate you jump through?
Velicitia Open Designs 240	Posted - 2011.12.24 18:39:00 - [41] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Topaz Sky wrote: Well, they get literally trillions from moon minerals, not many people go there. Their biggest complaint is AFK people using a cloak. I think CCP wants it to be a super rich island fortress for botting, which they can then conduct high sec raids from, killing "stupid pubic hairs" mining. That's CCP's effective design policy at least. Oh pubbies is pubic hair! I was reading it as pub-bies and puppies, spelt funny. Meh, if I am pubic hair then they are the crabs that get in it. OP has is wrong. Quote: Pubbie 1. Members of a game community that aren't in your particular private group. Usually seen as less desirable to play with. 2. Derogatory term used to describe anyone playing a multiplayer game that isn't a member of the Something Awful forums... (more stuff that seems to be butthurt about the Goons, so it's pretty much irrelevant to the definition).
Jojo Jackson Dead Red Eye 26	Posted - 2011.12.24 20:34:00 - [42] - Quote Scatim Helicon wrote: You can't force people to shoot those they don't want to shoot just because they're playing the game differently to how you want them to, soz m8 Hey, it's not me, who whine like a pink baby to have no targetz. THEY whine even it's their own fault! - get as big as posible by inviting everyone - blue the rest - whine like pink babys "not enough targetz" - troll spam forums with "nerv highsec" - soke up every lost soul which whent from nerved high to low/null - repeat from step 2 THEY fail, not me Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Lord Zim Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 336	Posted - 2011.12.24 22:42:00 - [43] - Quote Oh hey, so this is where we're posting now.
Herping yourDerp Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 197	Posted - 2011.12.24 23:38:00 - [44] - Quote null should be dangerous, a few people should be able to wreak havoc, getting some good kills on people mining, or running anoms. a large force should be able to conquer territory and wipe out whole fleets causing hundreds of billions isk damage. currently small forces can't do much but get a lucky kill, bott programs log out when a new person jumps in local. large Blobs are just blobs.. very very rarely do you hear of a 40 man group pillaging enemy territory.
RubyPorto Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion 204	Posted - 2011.12.25 00:09:00 - [45] - Quote Ingvar Angst wrote: If you'll take a moment to look in this thread here, especially around pages 11 on, you'll see that a main complaint is that it makes null sec less safe for carebears. This got me to wondering... Just exactly how safe is null sec supposed to be anyhow? Is there supposed to be a constant degree of danger involved, should there be a point where it's safe enough for the cariest of carebears to carebear away in peace? Opinions? Don't spam us with links to your bad ideas. Or your good ones. If discussion isn't keeping the thread bumped, let it die.
P42ALPHA Epidemic. 26	Posted - 2011.12.25 01:10:00 - [46] - Quote Look at Epidemic's KB. A Goon, or a Test alt were in our ranks and ran a train on our last allience's botters. Well done sir, well done!!!! 0.0 seems safe till a wolf is set loose. And I like it!!!! Screw the botters. "All hail Wang ... the little fella in Command. When 'trouble' starts to spread, I'm sure he will rise to the occasion." Azahni Vah'nos (Best reply ever)

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