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Ratey	Posted - 2007.03.22 10:58:00 - [1] I appreciate the current patch changes to balance high speed BS, (although it's very expensive to do, so what's to balance??) But why ruin the interseptors? My 9km/s Claw, only because of propellant vent rigs, that i busted my hump to get salvage for, max skills, and a couple modest implants, and just a T2 MWD. Well now it's a useless piece of CR********P. Now I have these cheap aux thrusters, and the best I can do with nano structure IIs and a local overdrive is just over 7km/sec with very poor acceleration. So I have to drop the overdrive and fit one local inertial just to turn and warp out at a reasonalbe speed. An inty only survives pirate gate camps if it can do a combination of speed and agility. Having to choose speed OR agility is completely wrong. If CCP wanted to balance the BS speeds, then why did they screw with the interseptors? TomB says he appologises for exchanging propulsion vents for cheap aux thrusters. I DO NOT ACCEPT THE APPOLOGY! PLEASE GIVE ME BACK THE SALVAGE MATERIALS, AND I WILL CHOOSE A BETTER RIG SET UP !!!!!!!!
Sokratesz Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.03.22 10:59:00 - [2] Can i have your stuff? If you want something changed, stay reasonable, back it up with facts and info instead of ranting. Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Radio is essential for Amarr, to call the much needed backup...
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2007.03.22 11:00:00 - [3] Try experimenting with different setups? If you can't get a claw over 7k/s then something is rather wrong... sgb
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Faaip De Oiad	Posted - 2007.03.22 11:14:00 - [4] Edited by: Ishquar Teh''Sainte on 22/03/2007 11:10:35 lmao .. this thread has imho too much of whine whine rabble rabble whine some more you're unhappy that you can "only" do 7km/s? hey .. i fly shortrange-fitted 'ceptors - i'm happy when i reach speeds above 4km/s. oh and only for your information - i never lost an interceptor to a gatecamp because i was too slow - i only lost them so far because i screwed up. (well .. one or two 1v1 excluding but those i lost because of not enough damage output on my side) so stop being retarded. ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Liu Kaskakka PAK	Posted - 2007.03.22 11:18:00 - [5] ps. a few years back when I flew em, ceptor speeds were usually between 3-4k/s and noone was complaining that they were too slow. Pearls to pigs and all that .. King Liu is RIGHT!!
LeviUK hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.03.22 11:21:00 - [6] Oh no, however will you be able to tackle now?
Shania Eria	Posted - 2007.03.22 11:29:00 - [7] i bet you are running a plate.. if you are ... slap Originally by: Ealiom Oh yeah and trust me on this you will feel like a complete muppet after youve killed your millionth murloc in a search for 20 pairs of there balls.
Riho Gallente Magnificent Beavers Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.03.22 11:38:00 - [8] lol... my ares acctully is going faster after the nerf :P kinda funny tbh... Sig killed by MODs.... reworking it Great being Gallente... aint it ? ----------------- YARRRR, sig hijack! -HornFrog -----------------
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Faaip De Oiad	Posted - 2007.03.22 11:38:00 - [9] Edited by: Ishquar Teh''Sainte on 22/03/2007 11:35:03 Originally by: Shania Eria i bet you are running a plate.. if you are ... slap is this directed at me? if yes: shortrange 'ceptors like blasteranis, AC claw with all nanos/i-stabs/overdrives in the lowslots are dead. plain and simple. no "tank" (in other words: DC, maybe SAR or plate) get you killed really fast against ships that shoot back at you - the only reason i'd fit nanos/i-stabs/overdrives on such a setup would be no spare fitting but a free slot. and no - i'm not running a plate on my interceptor setups. DC + SAR is my preference. ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Padma Sky Lumen Et Umbra	Posted - 2007.03.22 11:39:00 - [10] Originally by: Liu Kaskakka ps. a few years back when I flew em, ceptor speeds were usually between 3-4k/s and noone was complaining that they were too slow. Pearls to pigs and all that .. Yeah.. Nobody whined "that inties was too slow" when there was no faction gears, faction implants and rig slots. On the countrary they was considered overpowered. Bah.. People are never happy.
Shania Eria	Posted - 2007.03.22 11:41:00 - [11] Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte Edited by: Ishquar Teh''Sainte on 22/03/2007 11:35:03 Originally by: Shania Eria i bet you are running a plate.. if you are ... slap is this directed at me? if yes: shortrange 'ceptors like blasteranis, AC claw with all nanos/i-stabs/overdrives in the lowslots are dead. plain and simple. no "tank" (in other words: DC, maybe SAR or plate) get you killed really fast against ships that shoot back at you - the only reason i'd fit nanos/i-stabs/overdrives on such a setup would be no spare fitting but a free slot. and no - i'm not running a plate on my interceptor setups. DC + SAR is my preference. oh no, i ment the OP complaining about turning speed, blaster ranis with a plate is amazing... good on ya soldier Originally by: Ealiom Oh yeah and trust me on this you will feel like a complete muppet after youve killed your millionth murloc in a search for 20 pairs of there balls.
DarkElf Caldari Veto.	Posted - 2007.03.22 11:57:00 - [12] tbh 7kms is still plenty for a ceptor to do. and how fast u can go is really only important in comparison to how fast other ships can go. every ship is slower so it's not a big deal. u'll still be faster than 99% of ships u come across probably. and how can u not avoid a gatecamp going at that speed? DE
hydraSlav Synergy Evolved Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2007.03.22 13:53:00 - [13] Shouldn't have invested in something that was broken and everyone knew that it was gonna be changed. BTW, my regular inties do around 4km, so 7km is already more than enough. == Above comments are my personal views Oveur >Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
Ratey	Posted - 2007.03.22 23:50:00 - [14] Great comments, I pretty much agree with everyone, thanks. I edited out the ranting, in the first post but left in the retarded parts just to stay honest. I still think we should have gotten our salvage back instead of an arbitrary, manditory swap out? sort of like getting a glass of milk as refund for a pint of beer. The salvage for propulsion vents can be used in the more expensive housing rig for weight reduction. The salvage for aux thrusters is all easy to get cheap stuff.
Maeltstome Minmatar Caldari Navy Raiders DeStInY.	Posted - 2007.03.23 00:35:00 - [15] Originally by: DarkElf tbh 7kms is still plenty for a ceptor to do. and how fast u can go is really only important in comparison to how fast other ships can go. every ship is slower so it's not a big deal. u'll still be faster than 99% of ships u come across probably. and how can u not avoid a gatecamp going at that speed? DE The point of going fast isn't to outrun people - its to outrun the damage. Only a ranis or a Jaeger claw actually use's 'conventional' tanking. Precision light missiles have an explo.vel. of 3k/s, and with the way target motion prediction works... rather than increasing missiles explo velocity, it reduces the target's velocity in the damage calculation. meaning @ lvl 5 you speed is actually half of what you think it is in terms of missile damage, as opposed to simply making the missiles ex.vel. 50% faster... which would have a significantly smaller effect. This means that travelling at 6k/s you will still recieve full missile damage. Also precision light missiles do 100% damage, unlike every other class of precision missiles, which do 85% of the t1 predecesor. Your only chance is to really outrun the missile itself, which when you are dealing with a ship like the crow is practically impossible, as its possible to get the velocity to 7.5K/s. Thats my main gripe with the change to speed mods. If target motion prediction was changed to give a 10% bonus to missile velocity per level rather than making the targets velocity 10% less of a factor per level then i'd be alot happier. My 2 cents.
Snake Jankins Minmatar Cult of War	Posted - 2007.03.23 01:19:00 - [16] Edited by: Snake Jankins on 23/03/2007 01:16:32 I think it's very irritating to almost completely outrun missile damage. I don't fly caldari in pvp anymore, but I remember over a year ago I've been chasing a sensor boosted missile crow with my missile crow. He mwd'ing away from me and I followed. My light missiles didn't reach him, his light missiles hit me, but couldn't break my shield recharge rate. That was stupid. Similar stupid as outrunning precision cruise, so that their damage is reduced to 0.5 or so. The effect is too strong. And I think that missiles should travel with x thousand m/s relative to the ship that fires them and not with 'absolute' speed (you know what I mean). So if a crow chases a crow and both fly 10.000 m/s, then you shouldn't overtake your own missiles, but they should still travel forward with x-thousand m/s and hit. ( I don't care about the eve pseudo fluid dynamics universe here. It would look and feel a lot better, if the missiles travel with a fixed relative speed forward, when you fire them instead of that you overtake them right after firing and leave them behind, because they are slower than you ) ___________ 'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.'
Tarron Sarek Gallente Endica Enterprises	Posted - 2007.03.23 02:06:00 - [17] Erm, I don't see the point. Turrets won't hit either if your target is too fast and it's transversal too high. So why should missiles always hit? Why shouldn't there be a case where they don't? ___________________________________ _/_/ Game balance isn't just a luxury _/_/
Ratey	Posted - 2007.03.23 21:50:00 - [18] Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte hey .. i fly shortrange-fitted 'ceptors - i'm happy when i reach speeds above 4km/s. oh and only for your information - i never lost an interceptor to a gatecamp because i was too slow - i only lost them so far because i screwed up. (well .. one or two 1v1 excluding but those i lost because of not enough damage output on my side) so stop being retarded. LOL, you must be lucky to only have retarded gatecampers. I had been through this gate camp routeenly unscathed until this day. You would never survive this: [ 2007.03.09 22:08:23 ] (combat) (Rokh)tiller [SNOWY]'BOOM HEADSHOT' hits you, doing 337.5 damage. [ 2007.03.09 22:08:23 ] (combat) (Rokh)tiller [SNOWY]'BOOM HEADSHOT' hits you, doing 337.5 damage. At this point, within 2 seconds I'm accelerating past 8km/s with transversal in the thousands on all hostiles. The only thng that saves me is the COMBINATION of speed AND agility. [ 2007.03.09 22:08:25 ] (notify) Useless: You have foolishly engaged in criminal activity within sight of sentry guns and must suffer the consequences. [ 2007.03.09 22:08:27 ] (notify) (Lachesis)Useless [SNOWY]'Yarr!' has started trying to warp scramble you. [ 2007.03.09 22:08:27 ] (notify) (Lachesis)Useless [SNOWY]'Yarr!' has started trying to warp scramble you. [ 2007.03.09 22:08:27 ] (notify) (Lachesis)Useless [SNOWY]'Yarr!' has started trying to warp scramble you. [ 2007.03.09 22:08:27 ] (notify) (Lachesis)Useless [SNOWY]'Yarr!' has started trying to warp scramble you. [ 2007.03.09 22:08:27 ] (notify) (Lachesis)Useless [SNOWY]'Yarr!' has started trying to warp scramble you. [ 2007.03.09 22:08:34 ] (notify) Sprungle Spormen: You have foolishly engaged in criminal activity within sight of sentry guns and must suffer the consequences. [ 2007.03.09 22:08:34 ] (combat) (Revelation)Sprungle Spormen [SNOWY]'Commander Swuggles' barely misses you. [ 2007.03.09 22:08:35 ] (combat) (Revelation)Sprungle Spormen [SNOWY]'Commander Swuggles' lands a hit on you which glances off, causing no real damage. [ 2007.03.09 22:08:35 ] (combat) (Revelation)Sprungle Spormen [SNOWY]'Commander Swuggles' misses you completely. 3-10 seconds later, cruising at 9Km/s+: At this point I'm safe from close range damage and getting pecked at by the snipers. Now that my interseptor is fatally nerfed, I can never reliably bust through that gate camp again. I say again, the interseptor needs speed, agility, AND quick acceleration to defeat a good gatecamp. By reducing the speed modules to only single attributes, we loose the ability to make the correct combinations to ensure survival. CCP's action to futher hobble the Minatar Claw is UNbalanced and UNfair. I rest my case, OUT.
Jarjar Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.03.23 22:12:00 - [19] Ratey: Uhh... A properly flown interceptor would have been in jump range *WAY* before either a Rokh or a Revelation () would have been able to target you... The only danger is smartbombs. "In Communist China ISK buys YOU!!" - random bio
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2007.03.23 23:02:00 - [20] Originally by: Ratey much whining and stuff Next time, try flying back to the gate and jumping out. If you feel you should be able to jump past a well-prepared gate camp and just mwd away without a care in the world, well, you're playing the wrong game :) sgb
Wolverine PL Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.24 00:11:00 - [21] My domi goes 4,5km/s and I saw interceptor crow doing 10km/s so you are sooo slow, no skills? no snakes? no... gang bonus?
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2007.03.24 00:28:00 - [22] Originally by: Ratey Edited by: Ratey on 22/03/2007 23:43:40 I appreciate the current patch changes to balance high speed BS, (although it's very expensive to do, so what's to balance??) But why ruin the interseptors? My 9km/s Claw, only because of propellant vent rigs, that i busted my hump to get salvage for, max skills, and a couple modest implants, and just a T2 MWD. Now I have these cheap aux thrusters, and the best I can do with nano structure IIs and a local overdrive is just over 7km/sec with very poor acceleration. So I have to drop the overdrive and fit one local inertial just to turn and warp out at a reasonalbe speed. You have a claw, maxed out skills, implants for speed, and auxiliary thruster rigs, yet you can only reach 7 km/s? I have decent skills (Navigation at 4 and the acceleration skill at 3) and no implants. And my Ares (with lower base speed than the Claw) can reach around 6.5 km/s after the patch (with 3 auxiliary thrusters rigs, 3 beta overdrive injectors, 1 beta nanofiber, and an mwd II). I don't see how a you could not get over 7 km/s with all of what you said you have. ------------------ "If you ever need anything, please don't Hesitate to ask someone else first."
Ratey	Posted - 2007.03.24 06:00:00 - [23] Originally by: Hannobaal You have a claw, maxed out skills, implants for speed, and auxiliary thruster rigs, yet you can only reach 7 km/s? I have decent skills (Navigation at 4 and the acceleration skill at 3) and no implants. And my Ares (with lower base speed than the Claw) can reach around 6.5 km/s after the patch (with 3 auxiliary thrusters rigs, 3 beta overdrive injectors, 1 beta nanofiber, and an mwd II). I don't see how a you could not get over 7 km/s with all of what you said you have. Yes, with Local overdrives I can get 8Km/s but it accelerates and turns so slowly that it can't get out of range fast enough. Also, the claw only has 2 rig slots. Jarjar > Ratey: Uhh... A properly flown interceptor would have been in jump range WAY before either a Rokh or a Revelation () would have been able to target you... The only danger is smartbombs." I talking about leaving the gate after jumping though. At this gate camp, ships only warp away if the hostile is busy with other ships and target saturated. SmallgreenBlur > Next time, try flying back to the gate and jumping out. If you feel you should be able to jump past a well-prepared gate camp and just mwd away without a care in the world, well, you're playing the wrong game :)" Not sure what you mean, but at this gate camp, you can not just warp away. THE only way is to pick a direction that will give you max transversal to all hostiles, then the instant you uncloak and the speed builds, hit the MWD, and in less than 2 seconds, you need to be out of webber, nos, and close range weapons, in the next few seconds, you have to be out of 20km scram range, Then you need to continue to 200km out of sniper range. You can not start warp in sniper range, because the speed drops to 0 for a moment, and they can get a lucky wrecking shot on you. eh, if you don't routeenly jump through heavily camped gates with multiple insta-lock threats, medium/heavy close range weapons, and multiple snipers, then I cant relate to your comment. ALSO, what do you think you're going to do in a warp bubble?? You HAVE to MWD away.
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.24 08:13:00 - [24] It's funny how you whine before trying different setups or using your brain. Try this basically... rigs: 2x Polycarbon Engine Housing I mwd: gistii a-type 1mn mwd low: 2x beta cap relay, 1x istab, 1x overdrive Yawn... N.F.F. Recruitment
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2007.03.24 08:46:00 - [25] Edited by: Hannobaal on 24/03/2007 08:46:08 Originally by: Ratey Yes, with Local overdrives I can get 8Km/s but it accelerates and turns so slowly that it can't get out of range fast enough. Well, if it's crazy fast acceleration you want, then you should be able to get that, but max speed is not that important then as long as it is several km/s. Quote: Also, the claw only has 2 rig slots. Yeah, I meant 2. All tech 2 ships have only 2 slots. I was confused when I wrote that I had 3. Quote: SmallgreenBlur > Next time, try flying back to the gate and jumping out. If you feel you should be able to jump past a well-prepared gate camp and just mwd away without a care in the world, well, you're playing the wrong game :)" Not sure what you mean, but at this gate camp, you can not just warp away. THE only way is to pick a direction that will give you max transversal to all hostiles, then the instant you uncloak and the speed builds, hit the MWD, and in less than 2 seconds, you need to be out of webber, nos, and close range weapons, in the next few seconds, you have to be out of 20km scram range, Then you need to continue to 200km out of sniper range. You can not start warp in sniper range, because the speed drops to 0 for a moment, and they can get a lucky wrecking shot on you. eh, if you don't routeenly jump through heavily camped gates with multiple insta-lock threats, medium/heavy close range weapons, and multiple snipers, then I cant relate to your comment. ALSO, what do you think you're going to do in a warp bubble?? You HAVE to MWD away. I think he means that the game shouldn't necessarily allow you to do the things that you seem to take for granted that you should be able to do with your interceptor. ------------------ "If you ever need anything, please don't Hesitate to ask someone else first."
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.03.24 11:31:00 - [26] Originally by: Ratey Not sure what you mean, but at this gate camp, you can not just warp away. He did not say "warp" but jump. You know that you can use a gate you just jumped through again, do you? It takes a speed fitted ceptor approximately 2 seconds to get back on the gate, they can have a tripple sensorboosted huggin and you will still make it and be able to jump back to the system where you came from and warp away. And as Ryysa said, your setup is ****ty, thats the reason you have bad speeds. My stiletto has around 7.8 km/s with that setup. With a claw I would get 8.5 km/s. With 90% of the agility I had prepatch with 2 vent rigs and 2 instabs.
Electric Cucumber Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.03.24 11:32:00 - [27] Edited by: Electric Cucumber on 24/03/2007 11:29:10 my claw goes 3.4km/s and it's enough to escape camps. get over it. I don't use rigs, faction mwd or snakes on a ship that costs less than 10mill isk.
Nidhoggur The Movement	Posted - 2007.03.24 12:21:00 - [28] Originally by: Ratey 3-10 seconds later, cruising at 9Km/s+: At this point I'm safe from close range damage and getting pecked at by the snipers. Wait a second, you're telling us you flew away from the gate? Congratulations, you've just lost all credibility... As well as the fact that it takes ceptors about 3 seconds to accelerate and jump, flying away would make it even easier for your aggressors to hit you.
Sadist Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.03.24 13:12:00 - [29] Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte Edited by: Ishquar Teh''Sainte on 22/03/2007 11:35:03 Originally by: Shania Eria i bet you are running a plate.. if you are ... slap is this directed at me? if yes: shortrange 'ceptors like blasteranis, AC claw with all nanos/i-stabs/overdrives in the lowslots are dead. plain and simple. no "tank" (in other words: DC, maybe SAR or plate) get you killed really fast against ships that shoot back at you - the only reason i'd fit nanos/i-stabs/overdrives on such a setup would be no spare fitting but a free slot. and no - i'm not running a plate on my interceptor setups. DC + SAR is my preference. They were dead over year ago. Speed is the interceptor's tank, and losing that proves to be very unforgiving. Do inties still have speed? Yes. Do they have the agility? Well, slightly less now. Does it hurt them on a grand scale of things? Not really. Because it was never intended for ships to go above 10km/s, yes, even inties. I hope they'll introduce some sort of stacking for boosters, so we won't see fgt crows flying 20km/s + òòòòòòòòòòòò VIP member of the [23] Quote: - Numbers alone do not win a battle - No, but I bet they help.
Kyozoku Mutiny.	Posted - 2007.03.24 13:21:00 - [30] Originally by: Ratey interseptors I stopped reading here.

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