| Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Cable Nathan Summers
The Samsara Collective
0
   |
Posted - 2016.10.12 14:06:24 -
[1] - Quote
Do vexor and arbitrators still have mining bonus?
With their ability to field combat drones for defense against NPCs would arbitrator & vexor mining in low / null be more effecent and profitable than Venture mining in hi sec for alpha clones ? |
Lord Ra
Section XII
The Southern Querious Drug Cartel
94
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 14:28:21 -
[2] - Quote
Id say venture just because of the ore hold and less running back and fourth in risky space. |
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
1212
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 15:17:49 -
[3] - Quote
Lord Ra wrote:Id say venture just because of the ore hold and less running back and fourth in risky space.
Plus cost. A venture is what, 200,000 isk? A cruiser is 10,000,000 or more? A venture can easily cover its cost in one haul, a cruiser.... No where close. A venture holds 5,000 m^3 ore. A vexor is only 480 m^3. Yes you could use cargo expander but at the cost of hull hp and eating up low slots needed for defense and any mining upgrades. Plus the venture has a built in +2 warp core stab bonus.
All this to gain an extra 2 mining lasers but with out any other bonuses to those lasers.
It just does not seem wise to mine in a cruiser when a venture works so well. |
erg cz
Eleutherian Guard
Villore Accords
495
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 15:24:06 -
[4] - Quote
Gnosis is the the best alpha ship. Even for mining. 3000 m3 is not that much smaller, than 5000 of venture. And it can serve as a shield tanked drone boat.
Absolutely free trial extension. Just click the link and get your extra week of Eve for free!
|
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
1212
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 15:31:32 -
[5] - Quote
erg cz wrote:Gnosis is the the best alpha ship. Even for mining. 3000 m3 is not that much smaller, than 5000 of venture. And it can serve as a shield tanked drone boat.
It does have a nice agility too, but again... The cost! 60,000,000 isk and for what? A giant target that screams kill me? This is eve. It is far better to encourage Alphas to use a venture. It is the best risk vs reward if you are bound out of hi sec. The gnosis... It is just asking to be killed. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
6453
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 18:27:16 -
[6] - Quote
Cable Nathan Summers wrote:Do vexor and arbitrators still have mining bonus?
Yes.
Cable Nathan Summers wrote:With their ability to field combat drones for defense against NPCs would arbitrator & vexor mining in low / null be more effecent and profitable than Venture mining in hi sec for alpha clones ?
A cruiser wouldn't survive. |
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
485
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 15:09:18 -
[7] - Quote
Cable Nathan Summers wrote:Do vexor and arbitrators still have mining bonus?
With their ability to field combat drones for defense against NPCs would arbitrator & vexor mining in low / null be more effecent and profitable than Venture mining in hi sec for alpha clones ?
Nope, the Venture wins hands down. Cost-effective, inbuild +2 warp core bonus and it's a cheap frigate an alpha clone can easily stomach to lose.
In contrast, a cruiser even when fit and rigged to maximum cargo space can't hold 1/5th of the ore a Venture can. (Doing this will make the ship a sitting duck dying to everything, of course.)
Nope. It's the Venture if you want to test out mining. The Venture and some of the frigates can carry drones (without bonus to mining, though) so an alpha clone isn't banned from using mining drones, either.
That reminds me, can a Venture fit one of the new ice mining lasers CCP introduced for the Endurance? Together with the soon coming ice mining drones, a Venture could also be a nice introduction to ice mining. Then there's gas harvesting: Again the Venture wins.
Edit:
But yes, the cruisers still have their mining bonus. I guess if you find yourself in an asteroid belt and have some mining drones in your bay you could help yourself to some ore? It's kind of a holdover from an earlier time in EVE. Best to ignore it. |
Cable Nathan Summers
The Samsara Collective
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 15:28:08 -
[8] - Quote
Very good points on cost, ore hold and warp drive.
I guess I'll rephrase, with alpha skills can to ask can you fit those 2 cruisers to mine more M3 per hour? If it is slightly over 10% more mined per hour fleets of 11 could have 1 alpha in Gallente industrial and 10+ mining in the cruisers. The cruisers could always switch drones to take out incoming NPCs more easily than the ventures |
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
485
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 15:39:25 -
[9] - Quote
Cable Nathan Summers wrote:Very good points on cost, ore hold and warp drive.
I guess I'll rephrase, with alpha skills can to ask can you fit those 2 cruisers to mine more M3 per hour? If it is slightly over 10% more mined per hour fleets of 11 could have 1 alpha in Gallente industrial and 10+ mining in the cruisers. The cruisers could always switch drones to take out incoming NPCs more easily than the ventures
Even if you can do that (and I think you are seriously overestimating how much output you can get from T1-mining drones), you and your friends will just plain die outside of HighSec.
In HighSec, gankers will probably target that juicy industrial and evne if not, a T1-cruiser fit to mining will die pretty damn fast to a bunch of catalysts, too. Please remember a catalyst fit for suicide gank is meant to die anyway, gankers won't suddenly get scared if they get shot at by CONCORD and your guys.
Anyway, a lot of work with ships 30-50 times as expensive as a Venture for no gain. This would only work if you loudly proclaim in advance you want to do this and then you and your friends secretly fit all your cruisers for PVP, using your pretend-mining OP as a bait. Of course then you would do PVP and not mining anymore.  |
Iferie
Third Coast Logistics
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 17:24:35 -
[10] - Quote
There are a number of excellent mining cruisers....they're called Barges.  There's some legacy bonuses from way back when, but the days of Osprey fleets are long gone. For the whole concept of a better defended mining op get a fleet of Procurers, equip them properly....., Have them all bring decent combat drones and assign them to a guardship...profit. |
|
|
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
485
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 17:32:49 -
[11] - Quote
Iferie wrote:There are a number of excellent mining cruisers....they're called Barges. There's some legacy bonuses from way back when, but the days of Osprey fleets are long gone. For the whole concept of a better defended mining op get a fleet of Procurers, equip them properly....., Have them all bring decent combat drones and assign them to a guardship...profit.
Alpha clones can't use the Mining Barge skill. They can use normal cruisers, though. That's what started the discussion.
|
Iferie
Third Coast Logistics
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 18:36:14 -
[12] - Quote
Ah didn't realize the Alpha state restrictions on barges. That said if they can use a venture then I would still stick with it. The first mining I did was in a Bantam and it's amazing how much easier things are with a 5k m3 ore hold, a decent drone capacity and excellent agility. |
Francis Raven
ExDominion
Evictus.
39
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 18:51:21 -
[13] - Quote
Venture for sure.
Gnosis would be slower to mine (correct?) due to not having any mining bonuses.
On top of that, miners tend to AFK somewhat. That would be the last thing you'd want to do, since it's an expensive ship.
But what the heck, try it out. It's an alpha account, it'll only cost you time to get that Gnosis and nothing else. Besides, you should definitely get a Gnosis so that you can do other activities as well. Mining will get boring. I say this out of personal experience.
ExDominion | Nullsec Corporation | Website | Forums | Established Nov. 2015 |
|
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
1213
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 19:05:09 -
[14] - Quote
Alphas are limited to only one account logged in per PC/Person. This is stated in the Dev Blog reporting on the latest CSM and CCP discussion. So having 11 friends mining and one running a hauler would be required. If you have that many people involved, missioning or running combat sites would be better income.
And assuming you want crazy, risked CCP punishment, ran all 11 accounts on a VMware setup, input broad cast to all, you are doing far more work and effort just to mine a small faction of ore to one or two paid accounts. It seems like a lot of effort for very, very little gain. |
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
485
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 19:09:25 -
[15] - Quote
Francis Raven wrote:Venture for sure.
Gnosis would be slower to mine (correct?) due to not having any mining bonuses.
On top of that, miners tend to AFK somewhat. That would be the last thing you'd want to do, since it's an expensive ship.
But what the heck, try it out. It's an alpha account, it'll only cost you time to get that Gnosis and nothing else. Besides, you should definitely get a Gnosis so that you can do other activities as well. Mining will get boring. I say this out of personal experience.
Don't forget all accounts subscribed until November when the new expansion drops will get a new ship from the Society of Conscious Thought! This new destroyer is basically a smaller, nimbler Gnosis and I'm sure many will put their ships on the market immediately. For alpha-clones the new SCT-destroyer could be a cheaper alternative to have some fun.
|
Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
502
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 19:14:53 -
[16] - Quote
Cable Nathan Summers wrote:Very good points on cost, ore hold and warp drive.
I guess I'll rephrase, with alpha skills can to ask can you fit those 2 cruisers to mine more M3 per hour? If it is slightly over 10% more mined per hour fleets of 11 could have 1 alpha in Gallente industrial and 10+ mining in the cruisers. The cruisers could always switch drones to take out incoming NPCs more easily than the ventures
I'm not sure on where the heck you will be mining that you need a whole flight of drones for protection against NPC rats if your mining in high sec, If your planning on low sec your real problem is players and 5 drones and a mining fitted cruiser is just going to die to them, but if you must, go on the test server, but your choice of cruisers, fit them to taste and take it into TAMA or wherever your closest to on the server, and try it out, If your going to use an alpha clone use your main to mine and alpha to haul. |
Uriam Khanid
New Machinarium Corporation
74
|
Posted - 2016.10.14 14:08:42 -
[17] - Quote
i did some tests.
Arbitrator/Vexor with alpha skill mine +100m3 compare to a Venture. But if your pimp Vexor (example) - you will be able to mine ~800+ m3. As alpha. |
Iferie
Third Coast Logistics
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.14 14:27:16 -
[18] - Quote
Going to lose an enormous amount of efficiency unless there's a hauler standing by to offload too, but interesting that the Vexor with mining drones is competitive in yield per cycle. |
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
485
|
Posted - 2016.10.14 18:13:16 -
[19] - Quote
Uriam Khanid wrote:i did some tests.
Arbitrator/Vexor with alpha skill mine +100m3 compare to a Venture. But if your pimp Vexor (example) - you will be able to mine ~800+ m3. As alpha.
You forgot to account for the time cost. Offloading to a hauler costs time, manually bringing your ore to station costs even more time. Also people tend to overlook travel times for drones. If you want to mine an asteroid not directly in front of you, you lose a lot of time compared to just retargeting with a laser.
But anyway, if people start mining in "pimped Vexors" I foresee the price for Catalysts rising... |
Uriam Khanid
New Machinarium Corporation
74
|
Posted - 2016.10.14 20:52:05 -
[20] - Quote
Owen Levanth wrote:Uriam Khanid wrote:i did some tests.
Arbitrator/Vexor with alpha skill mine +100m3 compare to a Venture. But if your pimp Vexor (example) - you will be able to mine ~800+ m3. As alpha. You forgot to account for the time cost. Offloading to a hauler costs time, manually bringing your ore to station costs even more time. Also people tend to overlook travel times for drones. If you want to mine an asteroid not directly in front of you, you lose a lot of time compared to just retargeting with a laser. But anyway, if people start mining in "pimped Vexors" I foresee the price for Catalysts rising...
i am not forgot everything. How to mine (container or station) will be decide by alpha's. In my calculations i used ''station''(bringing ore to station) variant. it's 25k+ m3 of ore by ''usial'' arbitrator
|
|
|
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
487
|
Posted - 2016.10.14 21:12:07 -
[21] - Quote
Uriam Khanid wrote:Owen Levanth wrote:Uriam Khanid wrote:i did some tests.
Arbitrator/Vexor with alpha skill mine +100m3 compare to a Venture. But if your pimp Vexor (example) - you will be able to mine ~800+ m3. As alpha. You forgot to account for the time cost. Offloading to a hauler costs time, manually bringing your ore to station costs even more time. Also people tend to overlook travel times for drones. If you want to mine an asteroid not directly in front of you, you lose a lot of time compared to just retargeting with a laser. But anyway, if people start mining in "pimped Vexors" I foresee the price for Catalysts rising... i am not forgot everything. How to mine (container or station) will be decide by alpha's. In my calculations i used ''station''(bringing ore to station) variant. it's 25k+ m3 of ore by ''usial'' arbitrator
Well, I guess if your predictions come true a collossal slaughter of alphas on the hand of gankers will commence, since your pimped cruisers will be a prime target for everyone. Hell, this scenario even tempts me and I'm normally bored to death by the idea of ganking miners. |
Uriam Khanid
New Machinarium Corporation
74
|
Posted - 2016.10.15 16:25:21 -
[22] - Quote
Owen Levanth wrote:
Well, I guess if your predictions come true a collossal slaughter of alphas on the hand of gankers will commence, since your pimped cruisers will be a prime target for everyone. Hell, this scenario even tempts me and I'm normally bored to death by the idea of ganking miners.
 Ha, it hard to predict people's stupidity. It always a suprise |
Cepheus Antollare
Smart Mining Corperation
0
|
Posted - 2016.11.18 03:47:42 -
[23] - Quote
Uriam Khanid wrote:i did some tests.
Arbitrator/Vexor with alpha skill mine +100m3 compare to a Venture. But if your pimp Vexor (example) - you will be able to mine ~800+ m3. As alpha.
what fit are you using ? |
Musashi Date
62
|
Posted - 2016.11.19 16:32:09 -
[24] - Quote
Owen Levanth wrote:Uriam Khanid wrote:i did some tests.
Arbitrator/Vexor with alpha skill mine +100m3 compare to a Venture. But if your pimp Vexor (example) - you will be able to mine ~800+ m3. As alpha. You forgot to account for the time cost. Offloading to a hauler costs time, manually bringing your ore to station costs even more time. Also people tend to overlook travel times for drones. If you want to mine an asteroid not directly in front of you, you lose a lot of time compared to just retargeting with a laser. But anyway, if people start mining in "pimped Vexors" I foresee the price for Catalysts rising...
This is one of the things that is often overlooked: The more time you spend actually mining (i.e. laser on asteroids) the more isk you make. Travel time is simply.. inefficient. Just add up the mine-till-full + warping to station + aligning (or pre-align to skip this!) + docking + unloading + undocking + warping back + aligning + locking time totals. This time spent on not mining steadily stacks up and before you know it, you've made 3 unloading trips, vs. 5 unloading trips.
With the Venture travelling at 5au(base) and a dedicated 5,000m3 ore hole, you'll just simply get more. |
Zumbas Egdald
White Dragons
0
|
Posted - 2016.11.21 00:32:55 -
[25] - Quote
Just questioning: does Alphas have the skill to use mining drones?! |
Andrew Indy
Jedran Space Services
168
|
Posted - 2016.11.21 08:40:51 -
[26] - Quote
Zumbas Egdald wrote:Just questioning: does Alphas have the skill to use mining drones?!
From the Dev blog and Pyfa , No they cant.
Needs "Mining Drones Operation 1" which they don't seem to have.
Even with no mining drones they do get more than 10% extra. No Bling. With a hauler you would make even more as you don't need to warp around ect.
241.8 M3/minute
[Venture, test]
Mining Laser Upgrade I
Miner I
Miner I
277.8M3/minute
[Omen, test]
Mining Laser Upgrade I
Mining Laser Upgrade I
Co-Processor I
Co-Processor I
Mining Laser Upgrade I
Miner I
Miner I
Miner I
Miner I
Miner I
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |