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Zargo Den'Ka
The Infamous.
That Escalated Quickly.
12
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Posted - 2016.10.21 09:53:12 -
[1] - Quote
I've noticed that there are more and more trades happening outside of the ancestral market home of Jita. Do people think that there will ever be a full cross over from Jita > Perimeter? If so, when?
Currently going through courts to get access to my son. Greatfully accpting doantions to help me keep plexed. Much Love.
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Lord Ra
Section XII
The Southern Querious Drug Cartel
104
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Posted - 2016.10.21 10:35:31 -
[2] - Quote
Zargo Den'Ka wrote:I've noticed that there are more and more trades happening outside of the ancestral market home of Jita. Do people think that there will ever be a full cross over from Jita > Perimeter? If so, when?
No, and never.
Offwhoring that's all :) |
Do Little
Virgin Plc
Evictus.
458
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Posted - 2016.10.21 11:43:57 -
[3] - Quote
The original incentive to move markets to Citadels was a 5% brokerage fee and 3% transaction fee on transactions at NPC stations - these were reduced to 3% brokerage and 2% transaction but CCP indicated that they intend raising the fees to the original plan at some point. Bear in mind that this is not a value add tax - the fees apply at every link in the value chain: raw material, components, modules, etc... it really adds up. As a vertically integrated manufacturer, I can absorb the higher taxes better than most but I've noticed a substantial drop in inter-regional trade in the smaller market where I do business - the inter-regional spread simply isn't wide enough to cover the taxes.
Obviously, things get worse if CCP raises the tax to the original planned amount. Some people will leave the profession (and possibly the game), some will raise their price to compensate, some will move to Citadels, some will form groups to avoid as much tax as possible through vertical integration. People will pay a premium for the convenience of one-stop shopping at traditional hubs but there is a limit. Citadels will have problems with market fragmentation, trust and disruption - all things business people work hard to avoid. I doubt many industrial players actually want to move to a citadel given the current risk/reward balance. |
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
435
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Posted - 2016.10.21 13:51:12 -
[4] - Quote
Do Little wrote: As a vertically integrated manufacturer, I can absorb the higher taxes better than most but I've noticed a substantial drop in inter-regional trade in the smaller market where I do business - the inter-regional spread simply isn't wide enough to cover the taxes.
Something I said in the first thread about new taxes, CCP does not get it at all.
Do Little wrote:
Obviously, things get worse if CCP raises the tax to the original planned amount. Some people will leave the profession (and possibly the game), some will raise their price to compensate, some will move to Citadels, some will form groups to avoid as much tax as possible through vertical integration. People will pay a premium for the convenience of one-stop shopping at traditional hubs but there is a limit. Citadels will have problems with market fragmentation, trust and disruption - all things business people work hard to avoid. I doubt many industrial players actually want to move to a citadel given the current risk/reward balance.
The shift to vertical integration is the only option to keep profits somewhere, the way there is a big one, for a lot of player (groups). Probably we will shift to about 5 powerhouses over time. (like in RL).
"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X
"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron
-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
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Kaivarian Coste
Maut Merchant Navy
89
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Posted - 2016.10.21 17:09:52 -
[5] - Quote
According to dotlan, Perimeter has more jumps into it than Jita these days. I don't know how long that's been the case, though...
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Cista2
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
274
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Posted - 2016.10.21 18:49:32 -
[6] - Quote
Population of Perimeter has risen to currently 10-12% of the population of Jita, from a base of around 5-7% until the citadels came.
Still a long way to go...
My channel: "Signatures"
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TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
435
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Posted - 2016.10.22 02:12:24 -
[7] - Quote
Kaivarian Coste wrote:According to dotlan, Perimeter has more jumps into it than Jita these days. I don't know how long that's been the case, though...
Funny thing; I had my warehouse with stock in Perimeter for ages already. Just jump stock into jita when needed, the rest can be used for replenishment on other parts of EVE.
"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X
"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron
-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
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Do Little
Virgin Plc
Evictus.
464
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Posted - 2016.10.24 12:05:45 -
[8] - Quote
If I'm looking for a large quantity of a single item I will generally check the Forge market while passing through Urlen. If it is available at a good price in Perimeter, I save time,money and risk - all good. If I'm shopping for small quantities of many things it isn't worth the effort - I know it's all available in Jita and I'll save little if anything by shopping around. |
Al Nomadi
Morawins
23
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Posted - 2016.10.24 12:10:17 -
[9] - Quote
Do Little wrote:If I'm looking for a large quantity of a single item I will generally check the Forge market while passing through Urlen. If it is available at a good price in Perimeter, I save time,money and risk - all good. If I'm shopping for small quantities of many things it isn't worth the effort - I know it's all available in Jita and I'll save little if anything by shopping around.
With all respect it is not about shopping - it is about selling. |
Do Little
Virgin Plc
Evictus.
464
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Posted - 2016.10.24 15:32:38 -
[10] - Quote
First rule of retail is know your customers. If you're not offering people what they want you aren't going to sell much! |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
3050
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Posted - 2016.10.24 15:39:41 -
[11] - Quote
Expensive stuff I buy from Perimeter per range order, but was not yet able to fill one of my multi-buys for production in Perimeter. The quantities I need are only available in Jita.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Johans Chara
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2016.10.25 00:42:53 -
[12] - Quote
As a trader I like to buy in Perimeter and sell in Jita. Maybe because so many people are doing this so Perimeter's jump counts have improved drastically. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
5916
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Posted - 2016.10.25 07:47:15 -
[13] - Quote
There are literally hundreds of trillions of ISK in assets currently in Jita 4-4. Probably into the quadrillions.
There is no good way to move that to Perimeter faster than a couple billion ISK at a time.
Plus, trade citadels are not invulnerable, and the cost to retrieve items from safety is considerable. This risk must be priced into any decision to move goods there.
I do not anticipate traders leaving Jita en masse, except with highly portable items (deadspace modules, etc).
I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
3050
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Posted - 2016.10.25 15:37:15 -
[14] - Quote
Also be reminded, that citadel assets essentially are black boxes, you still can't search for it ... 
I'm my own NPC alt.
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orionbeta
Romanus Sica
5
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Posted - 2016.10.27 18:26:36 -
[15] - Quote
I do a lot of my time hauling off of contracts and out of the "Hauling Channel". I can tell you freight wise I see a lot more items being bought and then moved back to Jita from Perimeter. Ore's are about the only thing I haul from Jita back into Perimeter. |
Puar
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.10.28 00:58:38 -
[16] - Quote
Burn Jita would not take down stations burn perimeter will take down citadels |
Toobo
Project Fruit House
Solyaris Chtonium
305
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Posted - 2016.10.29 19:52:11 -
[17] - Quote
I don't see any chance that Perimeter will become new Jita - as in both for place for buying and selling, for producers and traders and end users alike.
I can see that new Fortizar hubs will emerge that will take over from Rens, Dodixie and possibly even Amarr. But Perimeter, just 1j from Jita, will never grow to be its own independent hub/shopping mall - it will only be for traders to set up cheap broker fees buy orders for items.
Having said that though, since the increase of broker fees in NPC stations, I did something I thought I'd never do. Sell PLEX to buy orders (immediate sales) to avoid broker fees for setting up PLEX sell order. The price fluctuation between post citadel crash (I bought quite a few at 850m or less mark in some regions, but even in competitive Forge region you could buy for 900m ish per PLEX) and the subsequent rise to over 1b and crash back down with mega PLEX sales and all that - those were very good times to buy PLEX and just sell to buy orders immediately to occur no broker fees, without having to move stacks of PLEX to Perimeter. The price fluctuation and margin was good enough to sell directly to buy order and still make reasonable ISK profit (not maximum, but much much less hassle).
"When faced with my demons, I clothe them and feed them,
and I smile, yes I smile as they are taking me over" - Strange Glue
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InterStellar Architect
InterStellar Architects Corporation
21
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Posted - 2016.10.30 00:53:07 -
[18] - Quote
Zargo Den'Ka wrote:I've noticed that there are more and more trades happening outside of the ancestral market home of Jita. Do people think that there will ever be a full cross over from Jita > Perimeter? If so, when?
From what I've seen it's mainly PLEX. And there have been a few PLEX-tanked deaths.
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motie one
Secret Passage
124
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Posted - 2016.11.04 22:38:21 -
[19] - Quote
We will not see a major change until the citadel api is introduced, then anything can happen. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
1552
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Posted - 2016.11.05 05:03:54 -
[20] - Quote
The way I see it, Jita has just expanded to include the adjacent systems. It's still all Jita.
If Jita wasn't there, what reason would there be for the Perimeter Fortizars to exist?
It's rather like industrial districts springing up in what used to be the suburbs around a large city, they take advantage of the availability of land and the lower costs outside the city proper, but they are only there as an extension of the city rather than an alternative to it.
If anything, the introduction of Citadels have cemented Jita's position as the uberhub. |
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
943
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Posted - 2016.11.05 21:30:15 -
[21] - Quote
Bad Bobby wrote:The way I see it, Jita has just expanded to include the adjacent systems. It's still all Jita.
If Jita wasn't there, what reason would there be for the Perimeter Fortizars to exist?
It's rather like industrial districts springing up in what used to be the suburbs around a large city, they take advantage of the availability of land and the lower costs outside the city proper, but they are only there as an extension of the city rather than an alternative to it.
If anything, the introduction of Citadels have cemented Jita's position as the uberhub.
Pretty much.
The vast majority of stuff coming out of perimeter is still offshored.
The amount of stuff going solely through the citadel is small. This may change if the owner puts an engineering module into the citadel, but, even so, at present there is no API for citadels, which means sales in there are not showing on market info.
Additionally, citadels still have the problem of being explodable, and subject to the owner allowing you to dock and trade, so, these things would prevent the entirety of jita moving to perimeter.
The # docked there is small compared to Jita, and when you remove those who are offshoring there, the # is even smaller.
Fluffy Bunny Pic!
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Tear Jar
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec
350
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Posted - 2016.11.08 02:38:25 -
[22] - Quote
I found citadels useful for placing buy orders, but not so much for sell orders.
There aren't alot of people going to the citadels to buy from sell orders. |
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
441
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Posted - 2016.11.08 08:35:32 -
[23] - Quote
Tear Jar wrote:I found citadels useful for placing buy orders, but not so much for sell orders.
There aren't alot of people going to the citadels to buy from sell orders.
Its funny that if you bulk buy stuff in a region, you find yourself in citadels a lot, but had no idea you bought stuff in them.
"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X
"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron
-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
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Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
539
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Posted - 2016.11.08 12:18:04 -
[24] - Quote
I prefer to buy outside of Jita if it's available, feeling like a chicken and running the gauntlet of traffic and gankers, seeing the local full of clowns, Jita has been and will always be a ghetto, other emerging trade places will hopefully not turn into a ghetto. |
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
394
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Posted - 2016.11.29 20:15:57 -
[25] - Quote
Recently I was buying some commodities and I found out that I received about 50% of them in Planet 5 hub instead of Jita. If only it can stay there long enough before being eradicated, it could actually attract a serious share of deals IMO. The hub itself is surrounded by al kinds of fabs, which also helps a lot. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
6528
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Posted - 2016.11.29 21:58:12 -
[26] - Quote
A friend recently told me of the issue with having a market service offlined, leaving his orders in limbo for an unknown amount of time.
I personally still use Jita. |
Natalia Petronovska
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2016.11.30 03:54:16 -
[27] - Quote
I have started using the citadel in Perimeter to create my buy orders for one jump to save on the fees incurred for doing so. It just blows my mind that I have to pay taxes when both buying and selling items. Somewhat lame in my opinion but I just have to take it with a grain of salt I guess. |
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