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DMF KingBob	Posted - 2007.03.25 04:31:00 - [1] i am amarr and shooting with lasers they make em damage and an little bit thermal the most NPC enemies are to hard for me i can fight only against Sansha and Bloodraiders normal against guristas is hard (i have no f.o.f. missiles like a caldari) it is mostly hard to get them down the have much em/thermal resistance but lesser kinetic,this is easy for an caldari or minmatar or gallente but not for amarr against EoM is harder the have much EM/thermal resis but lesser kinetic ,this is easy for an Caldari,Minmatar,Gallente but not for an amarr against Angels is unable for an amarr!!! the have high em/thermal resistance but less explosiv this is easy for an Caldari,Minmatar but not for an Amarr! i cant fly the mission angel extravaganza i make no damage against the angel Battleships i make not much damage against EoM,Guristas,Angels,Serpentis(mayby) please rebalance the NPC resistances!
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.03.25 04:39:00 - [2] the ships balanced amaar be must!
Humpalot	Posted - 2007.03.25 06:40:00 - [3] I have heard that some Angel missions (or maybe it was spawns....don't remember) are literally impossible for any Amarr ship to take down. I have never heard of such an issue with any other race dropping anything. So yeah...needs to be looked at but rather than tweak Angels sort out Amarr limited damage type issues. Give us a Particle Beam. Fits with Amarr energy weapons yet uses particles so they have kinetic/thermal damage. Of course CCP can tweak this to whatever (Exp/Kin or Exp/Therm...whatever). They gave lasers EM damage of which they really would have none so do whatever works.
Tulisin Dragonflame	Posted - 2007.03.25 06:52:00 - [4] So fit projectile/hybrid turrets and waste those bonuses.
Auron Shadowbane	Posted - 2007.03.25 07:34:00 - [5] thats why you nearly allways get sansha/blood raider rats from amarr agents.
Mastin Dragonfly Amarr Navy Runners	Posted - 2007.03.25 07:57:00 - [6] Get your gunnery skills up, only faction I avoid when in a pure laserboat is Angels, and only for lvl 4, never has much issue with lvl 3 Angel Extravaganza and I did my lvl 3s in a Prophecy before the Harbinger was in the game.
Necoria	Posted - 2007.03.25 12:54:00 - [7] Apocalypse doesnt have a damage bonus, but can tank like no other (tier 2 BS). I have run angel extra in a Apoc with large artillery and it was ok, Raven/Tempest/Domi are faster, but its doable in an Apoc too. I did it just for fun, but as Amarr only char I would avoid that mission.
Picman	Posted - 2007.03.25 13:24:00 - [8] Even though it might take a bit longer against Guristas and Angels it's far away from being impossible to beat them. It just takes some skills and a decent fitting. In my Apoc I am doing every lvl 4 I get offered (except maybe Enemies Abound, because it kills your standing) almost as fast as a decent Raven pilot. So train up your skills and fit your ship according to the rats you fight and you will be fine. And don't forget your drones, they can help quite a lot.
KingBobs Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.25 18:21:00 - [9] my gunnery skills are at lvl4 and amarr bs is at lvl4 and i mean lvl4 missions and as an amarr i have to use amarr weapons and amarr ships!!!
Leandro Salazar Bravehearts Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.25 18:44:00 - [10] Originally by: KingBobs Dawn my gunnery skills are at lvl4 and amarr bs is at lvl4 and i mean lvl4 missions and as an amarr i have to use amarr weapons and amarr ships!!! No you don't. Only as a singleminded handicapped hardcore pure Amarr you have to. And if you limit yourself like that, don't complain. If you run the correct missions (i.e. against Sansha, Blood, Drones, Empire factions), Amarr ships work great. Against Angels and Guristas, well decline those missions. Or train up for a Raven if you are serious about mission running against factions very resistant to EM/therm. Use the correct tool for the correct job. I don't think you use a screwdriver to drive nails into a wall either, or do you? --------- There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Kestrel There is no 'e' in Caldari

KingBobs Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.25 19:05:00 - [11] i get from my amarr agents missions against Angels,Guristas and EoM
Johnny ReeRee The ReeRee Brigade	Posted - 2007.03.25 22:07:00 - [12] Edited by: Johnny ReeRee on 25/03/2007 22:05:09 Originally by: Leandro Salazar Originally by: KingBobs Dawn my gunnery skills are at lvl4 and amarr bs is at lvl4 and i mean lvl4 missions and as an amarr i have to use amarr weapons and amarr ships!!! No you don't. Only as a singleminded handicapped hardcore pure Amarr you have to. And if you limit yourself like that, don't complain. If you run the correct missions (i.e. against Sansha, Blood, Drones, Empire factions), Amarr ships work great. Against Angels and Guristas, well decline those missions. Or train up for a Raven if you are serious about mission running against factions very resistant to EM/therm. Use the correct tool for the correct job. I don't think you use a screwdriver to drive nails into a wall either, or do you? Since when is a Raven the "correct tool" for any level 4 mission? Obviously that says all kinds of bad things about the state of pve game balance. How come Raven pilots aren't ever seen complaining that they have to fly an Armageddon to complete some mission? We know why -- Caldari are absurdly over-powered for pve, and part of the reason for that lies in their ability to completely ignore damage type considerations, among a whole lot else. The OP's point is legitimate. The Amarr/Caldari pve discrepancy has reached absurd proportions. Some variation in racial ability is fine; too much is a problem. We're WAY past too much.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.25 22:27:00 - [13] For Gallente the problem is less as kinetic/thermal is generally better than EM/termal, and the drones help in most missions (save where the drone aggro enter in play), but the limitation in the primary damage tipe bite in PvE. For me, generally using a Megatron, the angel missions are the hardest. I have select to train minmatar and projectile weapon to do those missions. The more recent difficulty is that the new missions seem to be, agin, done better with missiles spewing, passive tank using ships (i.e. Drake). The dampening/jamming can be partially overcome with FOF (and the drones can be activated by the FOF too); NOSsing ships don't influence so much passive tanks and missile using ships .... Maybe I should start my 3d race ship skill and pick Caldari, but it is sad.
DMF KingBob	Posted - 2007.03.26 06:49:00 - [14] i hate caldari i have skilled so much time in amarr i cant fight against angel or EoM but an simple raven-noob can do this much better this is frustrading -.-
Brazero Amarr Noble House	Posted - 2007.03.26 06:55:00 - [15] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Originally by: KingBobs Dawn my gunnery skills are at lvl4 and amarr bs is at lvl4 and i mean lvl4 missions and as an amarr i have to use amarr weapons and amarr ships!!! No you don't. Only as a singleminded handicapped hardcore pure Amarr you have to. And if you limit yourself like that, don't complain. If you run the correct missions (i.e. against Sansha, Blood, Drones, Empire factions), Amarr ships work great. Against Angels and Guristas, well decline those missions. Or train up for a Raven if you are serious about mission running against factions very resistant to EM/therm. Use the correct tool for the correct job. I don't think you use a screwdriver to drive nails into a wall either, or do you? You post alot of crap kid. What the hell is a correct mission? Agents offer missions against all factions all the time, and that goes for Amarr agents as well. It's not for everybody to fake out and fly a lame Raven you know, and it's sure as hell not for you to judge and decide what ppl should do noob. Quote: <tuxford> Ah yes the Amarrians. Now bear with me apparantly I don't play Amarr or have ever heard of them, I read it on the forums.
Gee'Kin Tha Specialz	Posted - 2007.03.26 07:07:00 - [16] True. I noticed i can kill other rats easier then Sansha. Noticed they have weird resist. Shield goed down fast. But when u get into the armor. Well.. takes ages with lasers. Driving command and high spec BS. But still, taking down Serpentis / angels with my astarte / Navy mega is way easier then taking down Sansha with my Absolution / Navy apoc. True i did notice the damage em.therm is a bit weak or Sansha can pretty tank u good. Anyway , ill wait for amarrrrr nerf. --------------------------------------------> Plz tickle my brain. I wanna have a Brainfart ! -------------------------------------------->
Spuck	Posted - 2007.03.26 09:01:00 - [17] Originally by: DMF KingBob i am amarr and shooting with lasers they make em damage and an little bit thermal the most NPC enemies are to hard for me i can fight only against Sansha and Bloodraiders normal against guristas is hard (i have no f.o.f. missiles like a caldari) it is mostly hard to get them down the have much em/thermal resistance but lesser kinetic,this is easy for an caldari or minmatar or gallente but not for amarr against EoM is harder the have much EM/thermal resis but lesser kinetic ,this is easy for an Caldari,Minmatar,Gallente but not for an amarr against Angels is unable for an amarr!!! the have high em/thermal resistance but less explosiv this is easy for an Caldari,Minmatar but not for an Amarr! i cant fly the mission angel extravaganza i make no damage against the angel Battleships i make not much damage against EoM,Guristas,Angels,Serpentis(mayby) please rebalance the NPC resistances! the point with amarr is; you need way higher skills than any other race. Once this point is reached you fly missions with ease in zealot or absolution, do yourself a big favor and skill tech II minmatar drones for expl. dmg bye Spuck
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.26 09:28:00 - [18] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 26/03/2007 09:24:50 The lesson is that EoM rats have learned of Amarr weakness's. Shield Tanked Apocs and Geddons firing rails and missiles with highest resist to Em and therm as standard. Something should be wrong here with Amarr Racial NPC's outdoing them, but oh well, EoM's are probebly the hardest NPC's for amarr to kill. -- Billion Isk Mission
Rossarian	Posted - 2007.03.26 09:53:00 - [19] Originally by: Brazero Originally by: Leandro Salazar Originally by: KingBobs Dawn my gunnery skills are at lvl4 and amarr bs is at lvl4 and i mean lvl4 missions and as an amarr i have to use amarr weapons and amarr ships!!! No you don't. Only as a singleminded handicapped hardcore pure Amarr you have to. And if you limit yourself like that, don't complain. If you run the correct missions (i.e. against Sansha, Blood, Drones, Empire factions), Amarr ships work great. Against Angels and Guristas, well decline those missions. Or train up for a Raven if you are serious about mission running against factions very resistant to EM/therm. Use the correct tool for the correct job. I don't think you use a screwdriver to drive nails into a wall either, or do you? You post alot of crap kid. What the hell is a correct mission? Agents offer missions against all factions all the time, and that goes for Amarr agents as well. It's not for everybody to fake out and fly a lame Raven you know, and it's sure as hell not for you to judge and decide what ppl should do noob. Well the Amarr L4 agents that I have run so far (that includes Khanid and Ammatar) have given me a vast majority of missions against Blood, Sansha and Drones, which all are weakest against EM. Angel and Guristas missions were few and far between and could easily be declined, especially when using multiple agents. (EoM, that is something new that I cannot comment on. If Amarr agents suddenly spam tons of EoM missions, then I guess there is a problem.) So amarr agents DO offer the correct missions. In fact I had great success with my Abaddon in Khanid, it did many a mission actually faster than my CNR. And what is so terrible about the Raven being the best mission ship? It pays for that with being the worst fleet ship, and comparably bad DPS in close range PvP. Can't have every ship being as good at everything as all others, can we? If you don't want to use the best tool for the job for 'ethical' reasons, props to you. I was like that too for a few months, until my wallet convinced me to cave in. And I have not regretted it for one second. Using the Raven/CNR as main moneymaker has allowed me to buy top end fittings for my gunships too, and now I can always use the ship best suited for the job, be it a Raven, Abaddon, Mega, Dominix, Machariel. Because the Raven is NOT the best ship for every mission. But it is pretty much second best for all of them while the gunboats are best for some, and suck at others. And why should I not judge other peoples mission-running? I have extensive experience doing it for Amarr and related factions, so my judgement does bear some weight and might help some people optimize their ways. But deciding what they should do? No, I don't do that. I just point out when someone is shooting himself in the foot. But for all I care he can continue doing it if he likes it.
Leandro Salazar Bravehearts Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.26 10:01:00 - [20] Stupid alt default when on a new comp... That was me of course --------- There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Kestrel There is no 'e' in Caldari

Johnny ReeRee The ReeRee Brigade	Posted - 2007.03.26 13:44:00 - [21] Cool, so the Raven is the "right tool" for 90% of level 4 missions. When is the Apocalypse the right tool, for anything at all? And if you think Ravens really suck at pvp, then you just don't know how to pvp in a Raven. A lot of the things that make them ridiculously over-powered in pve actually do help in pvp.
Leandro Salazar Bravehearts Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.26 16:19:00 - [22] Originally by: Johnny ReeRee Cool, so the Raven is the "right tool" for 90% of level 4 missions. When is the Apocalypse the right tool, for anything at all? And if you think Ravens really suck at pvp, then you just don't know how to pvp in a Raven. A lot of the things that make them ridiculously over-powered in pve actually do help in pvp. Where did I say the Raven categorically sucks in PvP? I just said that it is not the best ship in close range (it is doing okay though), and it DOES suck at fleets. As for the Apoc, that is not the correct tool for any missions due to being made obsolete by the Abaddon. But a well-fit Abaddon is the correct tool for many (pre 1.4, I ain't run any l4s since 1.4) missions, including: Rogue Drone Harressment Infiltrated Outposts The Infested Ruins Vengeance Blood Vengeance Sansha Blockade Blood (if you can use scorch) Blockade Sansha (if you can use scorch) And at least in Khanid those 7 missions made up roughly 2/3 to 3/4 of my mission pool. And the Abaddon handles itself well enough against empire faction missions too, can't help it if people decline them due to standing loss. The only things where it truly sucks are Angels and Guristas, and I got missions against those once in a blue moon and could easily decline them. --------- There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Kestrel There is no 'e' in Caldari
KingBobs Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.26 18:55:00 - [23] drone are in missions mostly unable the will be locked from other groups of npcs and when the drone is killed ...is the player the next target and it is mostly unable to tank more then one group of enemies
Galea Wildfang Inebriated Consortium Enterprises Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.26 19:12:00 - [24] Originally by: Johnny ReeRee Edited by: Johnny ReeRee on 25/03/2007 22:05:09 Originally by: Leandro Salazar Originally by: KingBobs Dawn my gunnery skills are at lvl4 and amarr bs is at lvl4 and i mean lvl4 missions and as an amarr i have to use amarr weapons and amarr ships!!! No you don't. Only as a singleminded handicapped hardcore pure Amarr you have to. And if you limit yourself like that, don't complain. If you run the correct missions (i.e. against Sansha, Blood, Drones, Empire factions), Amarr ships work great. Against Angels and Guristas, well decline those missions. Or train up for a Raven if you are serious about mission running against factions very resistant to EM/therm. Use the correct tool for the correct job. I don't think you use a screwdriver to drive nails into a wall either, or do you? Since when is a Raven the "correct tool" for any level 4 mission? Obviously that says all kinds of bad things about the state of pve game balance. How come Raven pilots aren't ever seen complaining that they have to fly an Armageddon to complete some mission? We know why -- Caldari are absurdly over-powered for pve, and part of the reason for that lies in their ability to completely ignore damage type considerations, among a whole lot else. The OP's point is legitimate. The Amarr/Caldari pve discrepancy has reached absurd proportions. Some variation in racial ability is fine; too much is a problem. We're WAY past too much. Ever tried to mine in a Raven ? Boats in this game are good for some tasks, and bad for others. A looong while back I had to train for a different races BS to help my corp with their mining effords. Nothing wrong with training a different race for missions either. Flamming leads to anger, anger leads to pain, pain leads to suffering, and suffering leads to teh Dark Side !
DMF KingBob	Posted - 2007.03.29 16:55:00 - [25] sorry but the Topic is "most npcs are to hard for amarr"(amarr ship with amarr weapons) and not minmatar or caldari -.-
Venuz	Posted - 2007.03.29 17:20:00 - [26] isn't the apoc gonna be turned into a missile spewing armor tanker?
Bordak	Posted - 2007.03.29 17:29:00 - [27] .... i run Angel Extravaganza 4 with my Abso and T2 Pulse and T2 Crystals with no Problem, sure not as fast as a Sancha mission, but no prob..... The Issue gets lesser, the more SP you have in the right skills, i think ....
Dammar Amarr Ephorate	Posted - 2007.03.29 17:50:00 - [28] I never knew exactly what EoM was untill reading this thread, never seen em before. Also I did AE 4 yesterday for the first time in a lvl 5 geddon /w lvl 4 t2 megapulses and 1 t2 heatsink and it pretty much took forever. The bounties and salvage were nice tho even if it did take an hour and 30 mins to pick it up with 2 accounts.
JamnOne	Posted - 2007.03.29 21:05:00 - [29] I don't have to much of a problem with alot of missions as I fly in and out as needed so I don't die. When I first tried Angel - it kicked my butt. Worked on some more skills and changed ships from Proph to Harb and I was able to do it all on my own. If you ask my corp mates - it was a major accomplishment the way I fly. I don't really have T2 any thing. Highslots 5xHeavy Beams w/Radio 2xHeavy Pulse w/Radio small nos just for gp Med slots 1x10 AB 2xCap Rechargers 1xWebbie Low 1xMAR 2xHeatsinks 2xRat Dependent Hardners 1xEANM
Humpalot	Posted - 2007.03.29 21:11:00 - [30] Originally by: Venuz isn't the apoc gonna be turned into a missile spewing armor tanker? We don't know yet. All we know is Tuxford said he was considering giving the Apoc a role change. What that means is anyone's guess...Tux himself may not have decided yet. Lots of people are praying it'll become a big Arbitrator.



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