Originally by: Vladimir Tinakin

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Edited by: Vladimir Tinakin on 26/03/2007 15:05:33

Originally by: Vincent Almasy

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I would say make it lowsec so it would be somewhat fair or have the complex move each time it was completed.

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I'm sorry, I fail to see how having it camped 23/7 by pirate corps is better than 23/7 camped by farmers.

And don't kid yourself; that's exactly what would happen.

Not that CCP would change the sec rating anyway to fix a farmer issue. Plus it would totally annihilate the Gallente COSMOS...might as well shove that idea out of the realm of the plausible and focus on other remedies.

Plus, Deltole is a major link between gallente and minmatar space. Try plotting a "safe" route from ours to rens and avoid deltole.

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Originally by: Vladimir Tinakin

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Maybe bump them away and drop a can named the same?

Might not work depending if its a macro or a farmer, but you never know...

Seriously though CCP...DO SOMETHING. When my corp was camping the plex for a few hours several nights in a row last week (we got an interface BPC, they need a lot of parts!) we only got ONE stolen formulas decryptor, out of about 8-11 hours of plex time. Got a half dozen threaded waypoint maps though..they sell well. heh.

Either allow for the SF decryptor to spawn in another container (even if a low chance=still better than NO chance) or park a GM in there and ban the crap out of anyone sitting there 23/7. This is NOT farking everquest.

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Data Interfaces are plentiful, datacores are cheap, the encryption methods skillbooks are dropping more frequently (apparantly, though prices are unchanged) and the chances of success have been increased. Invention is in full swing, according to the latest devblogs, but it decidedly is not. Invention is currently bottlenecked by the supply of decryptors. While optional, everyone uses decryptors and the ones with the highest chance of success are reaching very high prices on the market. This is good for me, since I've been stockpiling decryptors for a long time, but not so good for invention.

One example is the Stolen Formulas decryptor, currently only purchased by hulk inventors due to cost. Pre-patch these went for 30m but now the extremely high demand for this item has pushed prices near 300m, with at most 5 on the markets in the whole of eve at any one time. Resellers are careful to purchase and resell every hulk on the market under 420m and since invention is yielding a tiny number of them, this is perfectly attainable. The T2 monopoly has not been broken in any way, shape or form on hulks.

So where do Stolen Formulas come from? Very few come from exploration sites, most come from the Contested Comet complex in Deltole, a 0.5 system in Sinq Liason. They drop in Serpentis Analysed Containers, ONLY in Serpentis Analysed Containers. There are four of these containers present, one of which is inaccessable while there are NPCs guarding it and the other three are always accessable. I've spent the past year hacking in this complex on and off and my main product of value was Gallente Encryption Methods skillbooks, the decryptors were just trash that I had to get out of the cans to let them respawn and hopefully spawn a skillbook.

So while I hunted for skillbooks, I stockpiled decryptors. The point being that I know how many you can get per hour. The cans respawn every 20 minutes and have a roughly 25% chance to spawn Stolen Formulas, giving roughly 3 per hour in total over four cans. Assuming this is farmed 24/7, there are almost certainly fewer than 100 of the best decryptors entering eve every day, with several thousands of the lesser ones entering per day.

And if you think you're going to head over to deltole and get yourself some stolen formulas, you're dead wrong. 24 hours a day, a hawk in a newbie corp sits at each analysed can, emptying it the very second anything spawns in it. To make it safe, a small fleet of drakes keeps constant watch, destroying every npc in the room as it spawns. The risk is zero and the rewards are great - complete control over an isk source better than a 10/10 complex that's sitting right in 0.5 space. Assuming demand remains consistent, as I'm sure it will, that's over 15b/day coming out of there.


Even if the hulk cartel does get broken, we'll still have to contend with the decryptor cartel. Fix it the way everything else was fixed. Make it drop like heck in exploration sites.

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Originally by: Sufjan Stevens

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They could fix this easy by making them like R.A.M's when you can use them multiply times but they get a % damage but you cant repair them like rams (modules 25% Large Guns 50% ships 100% ?)

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Originally by: Amy Small

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I know the people who are camping it. They are not macroers. They are not their 24/7, barely even half of it actually. Even if someone was sitting there all day, what grounds does a GM have to ban them? None.

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Originally by: Amy Small

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Originally by: Vladimir Tinakin

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Maybe bump them away and drop a can named the same?

Might not work depending if its a macro or a farmer, but you never know...

Seriously though CCP...DO SOMETHING. When my corp was camping the plex for a few hours several nights in a row last week (we got an interface BPC, they need a lot of parts!) we only got ONE stolen formulas decryptor, out of about 8-11 hours of plex time. Got a half dozen threaded waypoint maps though..they sell well. heh.

Either allow for the SF decryptor to spawn in another container (even if a low chance=still better than NO chance) or park a GM in there and ban the crap out of anyone sitting there 23/7. This is NOT farking everquest.

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I know the people who are camping it. They are not macroers. They are not their 24/7, barely even half of it actually. Even if someone was sitting there all day, what grounds does a GM have to ban them? None.

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Edited by: Nyphur on 26/03/2007 16:10:39

Originally by: Sufjan Stevens

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They could fix this easy by making them like R.A.M's when you can use them multiply times but they get a % damage but you cant repair them like rams (modules 25% Large Guns 50% ships 100% ?)

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Not a bad idea but the bottom line si that supply is capped way yoo low. Exploration complexes dont drop them in significant quantities. When I ran radar plexes in 0.0, I'd get 1 or 2 of them in the whole thing, if that. You can get that many in 30 seconds in a 0.5 system.

Granted, prices for Stolen Fromulas are coming down slowly due to supply and demand and I'm getting rid of the few I have but less than 100m per day for the whole of eve isn't right :/. The simplest fix is just to make 100 decryptors at a time drop from exploration complexes, just like the parts for data interfaces, and making the best ones drop more in 0.0 than empire.

Originally by: Amy Small

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I know the people who are camping it. They are not macroers. They are not their 24/7, barely even half of it actually. Even if someone was sitting there all day, what grounds does a GM have to ban them? None.

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Amy, I'm glad that they aren't there 24/7 but someone almost always is and the real issue is that it CAN be camped at all. A total of under 10 people at any time can deprive the entirety of eve of that single resource, which is the basis for a cartel.

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Originally by: Ione Hunt

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Originally by: Amy Small

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Originally by: Vladimir Tinakin

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Maybe bump them away and drop a can named the same?

Might not work depending if its a macro or a farmer, but you never know...

Seriously though CCP...DO SOMETHING. When my corp was camping the plex for a few hours several nights in a row last week (we got an interface BPC, they need a lot of parts!) we only got ONE stolen formulas decryptor, out of about 8-11 hours of plex time. Got a half dozen threaded waypoint maps though..they sell well. heh.

Either allow for the SF decryptor to spawn in another container (even if a low chance=still better than NO chance) or park a GM in there and ban the crap out of anyone sitting there 23/7. This is NOT farking everquest.

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I know the people who are camping it. They are not macroers. They are not their 24/7, barely even half of it actually. Even if someone was sitting there all day, what grounds does a GM have to ban them? None.

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I'm not even ****ed at those camping it. It's a game design flaw.

The fact that everyone in this thread realizes that something's wrong with the current system, yet you defend it, gives me the impression that you seem worried about losing a source of income If a player corp farms them, I can wardec them. If an NPC corp camps them, there is NOTHING I can do about that. If you don't see the the fault in that, then I will call you out as being in the same boat as those hardcore farmers.

You don't happen to be the Amy Small who's been ratting in Querious with those Chinese power ratters around G3? I've seen the documentary about those ISK farmers on TV, and I feel bad for them. They just wanna play the game. But if it destroys some part of gameplay for others, they need to go...or the game design for those plex' needs to be changed. If not, sry...might be someone with a very (VERY) similar name.

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Originally by: Amy Small

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They are not depriving EVE of stolen formulas. I'm pretty sure the decryptors they are getting from this are going to result in the swiftest and deadliest blow ever dealt to the price of Hulks. Hulk prices coming down is going to be for the good of all of EVE (exept hulk bpo owners)

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Originally by: Amy Small

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They are not depriving EVE of stolen formulas. I'm pretty sure the decryptors they are getting from this are going to result in the swiftest and deadliest blow ever dealt to the price of Hulks. Hulk prices coming down is going to be for the good of all of EVE (exept hulk bpo owners)

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Hulk prices are completely unchanged.

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Originally by: Lord Dynastron

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They are down in the mid 400's now... Down from 600's. I have heard rumors of upper 300's, but have not verified that yet.

Edit: Linky
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=497475

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Originally by: Lord Dynastron

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They are down in the mid 400's now... Down from 600's. I have heard rumors of upper 300's, but have not verified that yet.

Edit: Linky
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=497475

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I don't remember them being over 450 before the patch. Jita's looked the same since the patch.

Additionally, stolen formulas aren't even the best decryptor to use at the current price. The second best one is more cost effective.

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Originally by: Ione Hunt

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I was trying to run it once as a test. What makes the other dudes farmers is the fact that they're there 23/7, right next to the can. They don't move, they don't respond in local, they just have 1 char next to each can.

I saw them on Saturday at 10pm, left my char there to see if they leave until I went to bed at 6:30am (yes, it got late), and came back at 11am just before downtime. After downtime, I had my alt there until I went to bed again (Monday is a work day, bah) at around 12am...gues what, the same frickin' noob corp alts were sitting at the excat same spot next to the exact same cans THE WHOLE FRICKIN' TIME!!

Don't get me wrong, I don't wanna sit at that plex 23/7 (Eve is supposed to be fun, sitting next to a can 23/7 isn't funny), but if I can't run it once because some noob corp farmer sits next to the cans 23/7, something's wrong.

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Originally by: Sigmorhair

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Comedy gold. People in Finland threatening to sue people in the US for blowing up internet space ships on a server in Iceland.

Originally by: KIAEddZ

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i bought 2 x stolen formulas at 200 mill each from Jita market.

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Originally by: Little Lucy

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Originally by: KIAEddZ

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i bought 2 x stolen formulas at 200 mill each from Jita market.

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Many claims of 25% success rate even with stolem formulas. Why would you buy them for so much when both jobs will likely fail?

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Originally by: Tek'a Rain

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perhaps some blame belongs with the overly gimped gallente cosmos design as well?

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Originally by: Sir Scorpion

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Edited by: Sir Scorpion on 28/03/2007 07:34:54
Well this might **** of a hell lot of people, but since CCP wants every one to put wholes in every one else, why not do this:

1. NPC corps members cant get into complexes

2. if your in complex u cant get
concordekkend ôcomplex is 0.4 or soö

3. an extra option for the above which will help make it balanced a complex drops 0.1 or 0.2 from the regions security, so if the complex is in 0.5 system the complex it self will be 0.4, and if the complex is in a 0.9 system the complex will be a 0.8 or 0.7. this way the more important ones with higher reward will be open for conflict.

This however dose not solve the pirate camp, yet again this is a pvp game so get some mercs, with that amount of income you can afford them.

I will try to get a fleet of bump/Ram ArmageddonÆs, and I see how it works.

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Originally by: Qual

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The simplest and best solution is to make the area low sec...

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Originally by: Sir Scorpion

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SNAP!!
That totally slipped my mind, damn 10/10 complexes, as well as the fact that MWDs wont work..doh.

Well, if thy are in a corp. nothing more to do than war dec. them. And donÆt call every one a noob, believe me you donÆt want to meet me in low sec spaceà Alt

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Originally by: Amy Wang

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Edited by: Amy Wang on 28/03/2007 14:41:02
Edited by: Amy Wang on 28/03/2007 14:39:10
You know you dont HAVE to use a decryptor for an invention job?
If the decryptor is too expensive for its use to be profitable with a certain job: dont use it, simple as that

Ofc I wouldnt mind decryptors dropping more often and being cheaper, but they are not essential for most jobs.

Removing them from static complexes and maybe increasing the drop rate in exploration ones also sounds like a good idea, lets make it harder for those farmer dudes in the sweat shops

PS: ok, I see the decryptors are really essential for ship invention, my bad.

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Originally by: Jas Dor

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Originally by: Qual

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The simplest and best solution is to make the area low sec...

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So um then BoB or RA can claim the area?

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