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Suggestion for Rattlesnake Change

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Verity Sovereign Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 92	Posted - 2011.12.23 17:53:00 - [1] - Quote Currently, the Rattlesnake is the cheapest faction BS. This is because IMO, it is generally inferior to other faction battleships.... heck, a Domi out DPS's it. It has only 4 launchers with no damage bonus. The velocity bonus is wasted on Cruise missiles- they already have plenty of range, and suck against the small targets where a velocity bonus might be needed The extension of trop range is a more usable bonus, but you are still left with just 4 torp launchers with no damage bonus I suggest changing the 50% crusie and torp velocity bonus to a 50% torp and cruise damage bonus (I was thinking +100% like the nightmare's 4 guns, or the 4 weapons or marauders, but then when the drones are factored in, it would probably be OP'd). This gives it the equivalent of 6 unbonused launchers, which would make it competitive in DPS with a Domi which has 6 damage bonused guns. Right now a Rattler vs a Navy domi just doesn't seem worth it unless you want an ++ber tank afk ship (and designing a ship to work AFK, especially an expensive pirate ship, is lame IMO). Same drone bay and drone bonuses. Significantly Inferior damage from high slots Superior tank, although tank is not limiting on either ship for lvl 4 PvE. I'm guessing 4 cruise launchers with a +50% damage boost will out DPS 4 torp launchers, giving it superior DPS and damage projection over a torp rattler in its current incarnation. And of course, you could still fit torps for even more DPS if you are willing to get even closer.
Liam Mirren 44	Posted - 2011.12.23 18:20:00 - [2] - Quote No. If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right.
General Paul Atomic Heroes The G0dfathers 3	Posted - 2011.12.23 18:28:00 - [3] - Quote No.
Max Von Sydow Droneboat Diplomacy 95	Posted - 2011.12.23 18:30:00 - [4] - Quote What we really need is low slot drone damage modules and suddenly the shield tank of the rattlesnake means that it can use its lows to increase drone DPS.
Nalha Saldana Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 54	Posted - 2011.12.23 18:41:00 - [5] - Quote Sure its cheap and doesnt have a lot of dps but its still a great ship that is commonly used because of its great ability to tank and afk power. There are other ships in bigger need of change.
Diomidis Pod Liberation Authority HYDRA RELOADED 11	Posted - 2011.12.23 19:56:00 - [6] - Quote For PvE, it has a great slow layout, and has more spare medium slots than the domi for omnidirectional links and shield tanking. The fewer low slots are all freed up for dmg mods. Is it the best? Well, maybe not. Guess what, only one can be the best. Should we cry for boosting the rest all the time...oh, wait, i think we already do. For PvP...the Rattler's tank is INSANE under certain situations, and DPS is more than enough for the purpose. "War does not determine who is right - only who is left." -- Bertrand Russell
Versuvius Marii Browncoats of Persephone 18	Posted - 2011.12.23 20:05:00 - [7] - Quote So you want to give it DPS yet keep its tank intact. Do you have a few Rattlers up on contract that aren't shifting?
Fon Revedhort Monks of War DarkSide. 57	Posted - 2011.12.23 20:33:00 - [8] - Quote Max Von Sydow wrote: What we really need is low slot drone damage modules We don't. Otherwise give me an ability to swap dronebay for an extra slot of choice. 2008, CCP Zulu(park): "command ships are fine as is" 2011, CCP Greyscale: "is the Nighthawk actually underpowered?" Nice progress, guys.
Verity Sovereign Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 93	Posted - 2011.12.23 20:59:00 - [9] - Quote Nalha Saldana wrote: Sure its cheap and doesnt have a lot of dps but its still a great ship that is commonly used because of its great ability to tank and afk power. Should we really have ships seemingly designed to be flown AFK? We already have mining barges after all Versuvius Marii wrote: So you want to give it DPS yet keep its tank intact. Do you have a few Rattlers up on contract that aren't shifting? No more of buyers remorse, i bought one, but I find its tank way more than needed, and its DPS makes doing missions without going AFK excruciatingly slow. I think I'd have rather bought a Navy Domi.
Diomidis Pod Liberation Authority HYDRA RELOADED 11	Posted - 2011.12.23 21:29:00 - [10] - Quote So, your whine is that after buying it, you realized that it's a better tanker than ganker... You also realized that it's the cheapest "pirate" BS. But that proves nothing about what it can do. Maybe because it doesn't fit the niche Machas, NHs and Bhaals fit, so its used less often for PVP and dies less often, thus "demand" doesn't exceed supply, or because the cheaper items you can redeem LP points on in the Guristas LP store are not as profitable as the equivalent LP items from other pirate factions. With your logic, Bhaalgorn needs a boost too, cause it doesn't have enough DPS for clear missions faster than NHs. "War does not determine who is right - only who is left." -- Bertrand Russell
Flakey Foont Republic University Minmatar Republic 17	Posted - 2011.12.23 22:14:00 - [11] - Quote So you buy a ship that is known to be low dps and high tank and now want to change it? Next time take more time researching what you want. I see something of a trend.
Versuvius Marii Browncoats of Persephone 18	Posted - 2011.12.23 23:55:00 - [12] - Quote Flakey Foont wrote: So you buy a ship that is known to be low dps and high tank and now want to change it? Next time take more time researching what you want. I see something of a trend. No excuses really, especially for a ship of that cost compared to a normal T1 vessel. Maybe next time...
Piugattuk Lima beans Corp 3	Posted - 2011.12.24 02:27:00 - [13] - Quote I like my Rattler alot, but only for certain missions, my tactic for lvl 4 missions is I fly close enough for torps then drop sentry drone (mission specific), then go bombing with torps, I can kill BS within 2 vollys most of the time while drones take out cruisers with ease, very quickly in fact, of couse kill the frigs first with smaller drones (mission specific) before you enter torp range, I have an active shield tank, but otherwise if rats run away, as some do, get webber drone on it, however in those missions I just use scorp navy issue with cruisers...running away is no problem then, an example of a mission would be Vengence, the named BS have a very hard tank, I could not get it to die for hours i tried different fits on BC, BS, finnaly I tried the rattler with a webber drone, that named rat BS went down in 30 sec...the ship is fine but it is skill intensive with drones being the most, torp skills being the next skill.
Ines Tegator Towels R Us 70	Posted - 2011.12.24 05:01:00 - [14] - Quote No. 700dps projected to 55km with javelin torps, and a 600dps passive tank, all with t2 fittings only. This ship has it's place already. If any change, another 15-25% velocity boost to get those torps out to 65km would be the limit of what I'd consider balanced.
astara989 Push Industries Push Interstellar Network 6	Posted - 2011.12.24 05:12:00 - [15] - Quote I can get 1127 dps from a rattler, funnily enough, like almost every other ship, you have to sacrafice tank to do it. You can't expect one of the best tanking BS's to also have great dps
Obsidiana White-Noise 37	Posted - 2011.12.25 13:30:00 - [16] - Quote I own one. I don't use it. The Navy Dominix, by far, out performs it (esp. after the hybrid buff). It is the cheapest ship because it has poor DPS. Yes you can get DPS out of it; no it can't beat the Navy Domi. I brought up some interesting points on another thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=507318#post507318 People are going to keep on making Rattlesnake threads because the DPS is a problem and the price is proof of that.
Verity Sovereign Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 94	Posted - 2011.12.25 18:06:00 - [17] - Quote ^ this I bought it, knowing it was a really tanky BS, and that it wouldn't be very vulnerable to Ewar because of drones and FoF missiles. I have since come to realize that I really don't care for flying it because it does missions so slowly, it sucks for incursions, and I don't want to take something that expensive (granted it is relatively cheap for a Pirate BS, it is still a pirate BS and outside my PvP budget) into areas where PvP is likely. The result is it sits in my hangar, or I launch drones and go afk (only on certain missions). I can't really find a non-AFK use for it, except for maybe the lvl 4 "blockade" missions, where launching FoF missiles may be preferable to using guns when I can actually lock something. Although even on these missions, I'm still semi-AFK.
Tsai Ashitaka Aether Ventures Surely You're Joking 0	Posted - 2011.12.28 09:17:00 - [18] - Quote Obsidiana wrote: I own one. I don't use it. The Navy Dominix, by far, out performs it (esp. after the hybrid buff). It is the cheapest ship because it has poor DPS. Yes you can get DPS out of it; no it can't beat the Navy Domi. I brought up some interesting points on another thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=507318#post507318 People are going to keep on making Rattlesnake threads because the DPS is a problem and the price is proof of that. People in that thread seem to be pissing on the idea of the Rattler being ECM, and I'm not sure why. "Oh no, it might be primaried first!" Yeah, like seeing a Bhaalgorn doesn't make you want to quickly get that ship off the field--unless your fleet enjoys having zero cap and moving slower than molasses. Maybe things are different for me since wormholes are a different playground, but Bhaalgorns are significant threats when used in the right hands. Any PvE carebear knows that jamming is what Guristas are known for. No one says "Oh yeah, they're the big passive-tanked drone boats!". No, they say "THOSE ARE THE ******* WHO PERMAJAMMED ME." Guristas lob big missiles and jam you to next week. They really ought to bring the ship in line to at least the Caldari flavor, if not the Guristas flavor--and if that means fixing large missiles for PVP, so be it. It's ridiculous that the two pirate factions that Caldari share don't emphasize Caldari weapon systems (Guristas favor DRONES, of all things, and Sansha favor lasers). There really ought to be less of a line drawn in the sand between "ships meant for PvE/PvP". Defending the Rattlesnake as being "fine" because you can afk your L4 mission in a monstrosity of a Domi/Drake lovechild doesn't mean it is in line with the other Pirate Battleships. Seeing a Vindi/Bhaal/Machariel scares you. A Nightmare can also be scary in the right hands. A Rattlesnake makes you say "Aww, the drake baby bought a new toy. That's cute."
Nor Tzestu Ministry of War Amarr Empire 29	Posted - 2011.12.28 09:47:00 - [19] - Quote Tsai Ashitaka wrote: Obsidiana wrote: I own one. I don't use it. The Navy Dominix, by far, out performs it (esp. after the hybrid buff). It is the cheapest ship because it has poor DPS. Yes you can get DPS out of it; no it can't beat the Navy Domi. I brought up some interesting points on another thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=507318#post507318 People are going to keep on making Rattlesnake threads because the DPS is a problem and the price is proof of that. People in that thread seem to be pissing on the idea of the Rattler being ECM, and I'm not sure why. "Oh no, it might be primaried first!" Yeah, like seeing a Bhaalgorn doesn't make you want to quickly get that ship off the field--unless your fleet enjoys having zero cap and moving slower than molasses. Maybe things are different for me since wormholes are a different playground, but Bhaalgorns are significant threats when used in the right hands. Any PvE carebear knows that jamming is what Guristas are known for. No one says "Oh yeah, they're the big passive-tanked drone boats!". No, they say "THOSE ARE THE ******* WHO PERMAJAMMED ME." Guristas lob big missiles and jam you to next week. They really ought to bring the ship in line to at least the Caldari flavor, if not the Guristas flavor--and if that means fixing large missiles for PVP, so be it. It's ridiculous that the two pirate factions that Caldari share don't emphasize Caldari weapon systems (Guristas favor DRONES, of all things, and Sansha favor lasers). There really ought to be less of a line drawn in the sand between "ships meant for PvE/PvP". Defending the Rattlesnake as being "fine" because you can afk your L4 mission in a monstrosity of a Domi/Drake lovechild doesn't mean it is in line with the other Pirate Battleships. Seeing a Vindi/Bhaal/Machariel scares you. A Nightmare can also be scary in the right hands. A Rattlesnake makes you say "Aww, the drake baby bought a new toy. That's cute." Not sure anyone is pissing on it. Just....why? Scorpion already does the job and does it well. And it does it for basically peanuts compared to the price of a faction battleship. Ewar and missles. Did you miss the boat listed in the market? So you want an ewar/missle pirate boat? Again..why? Cause you bought a rattler? Lest face it. The thing has a crazy tank and some drones. If you were looking for high dps also, well then. I guess a little bit of research would have gone a long way. Buyers remorse or some hair brained idea that we need more ECM ships in this game (really? MORE ECM!!!) sure make me think you all are utterly clueless.
Naomi Knight Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 97	Posted - 2011.12.28 11:23:00 - [20] - Quote Yeah something should be done about that ship , it has great tank but for what? for pve you dont need that much and for pvp it doesnt have "taunt" other than being a pirate bs .... oh and designing a pirate bs for afk pve is stupid , why not make a drone marauder for gallente
Amon Tyr Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2011.12.31 21:18:00 - [21] - Quote +5 drone bandwidth for the rattler ftw!
Verity Sovereign Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 102	Posted - 2011.12.31 21:51:00 - [22] - Quote The price speaks for itself. Its cheap because demand is low. Demand is low because overall its not that desirable. It simply doesn't do enough DPS.
Cipher Jones 260	Posted - 2011.12.31 22:36:00 - [23] - Quote internet spaceships are srsbzns. Maybe you don't use the tank on the RS but some of us who undock occasionally do. When you say "in PvE" and really mean "in level 4 missions that I run" it makes me laugh. See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die.
Amon Tyr Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2012.01.01 00:48:00 - [24] - Quote Actually a T2-fitted RS can go up to 965 dps with rage torps and sentries, while keeping 489 omni-tank. The torp will, of course be utterly useless with the crappy range and the huge explosion radius. [Rattlesnake, LVL 4 RUNNER (Sentries)] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II Large Shield Extender II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II Drone Link Augmentor II Drone Link Augmentor II Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Large Core Defence Field Purger I Large Core Defence Field Purger I Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I Garde II x5 A more reasonable LVL 4 runner fit would be to use Cruise launchers with standard ammo, in which case you get ~700 dps, which is OK for a semi-AFK T2 fit. Planning to multibox with 2 of these very soon (TM).
Flakey Foont Republic University Minmatar Republic 45	Posted - 2012.01.01 01:28:00 - [25] - Quote RS DPS comes from drones. As for price, it's about the same as a CNR. Just about right.
Muad 'dib The Imperial Fedaykin 41	Posted - 2012.01.01 01:49:00 - [26] - Quote sorry that would be too awesome and ccp have never been about the fun :P
Flakey Foont Republic University Minmatar Republic 45	Posted - 2012.01.01 02:59:00 - [27] - Quote Muad 'dib wrote: sorry that would be too awesome and ccp have never been about the fun :P Why would one play a game that is not fun?
Noisrevbus 57	Posted - 2012.01.02 00:11:00 - [28] - Quote Max Von Sydow wrote: What we really need is low slot drone damage modules and suddenly the shield tank of the rattlesnake means that it can use its lows to increase drone DPS. Which would end on a negative footing since it would force through a rebalance of general drone damage - as they already have an overwhelmingly generous damage-to-reach ratio (balanced by application limitations). If the damage modifier would be too weak, it would rarely get used and if it was competible as a standalone module it would make things horrendously powerful. That aside, this thread isn't very interesting to me. On a general note, i bet you are going to have problem convincing all the budding empire enthusiasts of a change, but the best of luck to you in your attempts .
Rel'k Bloodlor Mecha Enterprises Fleet 48	Posted - 2012.01.03 08:08:00 - [29] - Quote IMHO the only problem with the rattler is its drone bay, should be bigger than the Gila's. For the most part I find the Rattler to "feel" right for the Gurista's BS but my own play style makes my shy from BS's. As is I'll always take the cheaper Gila over the rattler as I get as many drones, and lose the torps to get a faster hull which I prefer.

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