EVE Search - Questions about upscaling production

All Channels

Market Discussions

Questions about upscaling production

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Anomalous Result Caldari Mercoxit Magnates	Posted - 2007.03.29 14:23:00 - [1] Hi. My name is Anomalous Result, CEO of the Mercoxit Magnates. We're a small corp and contrary to the corp name, we're no longer miners. We've moved into production of Tech 1 ships and have so far aquired the following bpos: Maulus, Tristan, Thorax, Blackbird and Vexor (mostly at ME 20 PE 0). We've been turning over a good profit but not so good of late due to mineral prices. I think the next step for my corp is to move into capital ship production, skipping BS entirely. Logistically, we could do BS production OR capital production but I don't think we could handle both. We'd like to start off with something simple and not lock away a large amount of isk to bpos because we don't have much isk at all. I need some advice from the experts? 1) would it be best to use bpcs to get started? 2) what capital ships are good moneymakers? are freighters still good or would carriers be best to start on? 3) how much could I save by finding a regular supplier for parts rather than using the market? 4) What kind of liquid isk should I be aiming for before we can start using bpos? 5) is it really essential to buy all the component bpos yourself to make a good profit and how much would a full set cost you? 6) for raising isk, would it be a good idea to take out a loan (is anyone even offering them?)? What about getting a few investors involved? Thanks for any help anyone can give. we appreciate it. ~~~ We Make Stuff!
Ionia Advanced Manufacturing	Posted - 2007.03.29 15:12:00 - [2] Go with battleships, they are much cheaper to get into, much much faster turnover, more profit/isk/time, easier logistics, safer, and you can actually make a profit on them building from bpcs unlike cap ships.
Anomalous Result Caldari Mercoxit Magnates	Posted - 2007.03.29 15:50:00 - [3] It's really a matter of getting the corp on board with the idea. More tech 1 ships is boring, even if it is battleships and it's more profitable. On the other hand, capital ship construction and T2 building are a bit more of a challenge. Most of the corp is bored of making Tech 1 ships and are dead set on capital production so I've made the decision to go with it. I know it's probably not the best market to get into but our minds are made up and I'm just asking for a little information so we don't get thrown in at the deep end ~~~ We Make Stuff!
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.03.29 16:10:00 - [4] Personally I don't see BS production being more profitable than lower end ship production. In a direct money way it is... but percentage profit, which is all that really counts, it isn't. Unless you are shipping those BS's in decent quantity to a war zone and making massive markups because of that. No BS will get you more than a 15-20% markup over buy prices... and usually 5-10% at most over sell prices if you're lucky. Frigates, cruisers and even BC's do better than that usually. I have no clue what the markup on capital ships is... but I would love to know. I may personally get into capital ship production... seems fun and I could afford to buy all the BPO's if there is decent profit in it. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained

Pirlouit Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.03.29 20:19:00 - [5] Originally by: Anomalous Result It's really a matter of getting the corp on board with the idea. More tech 1 ships is boring, even if it is battleships and it's more profitable. On the other hand, capital ship construction and T2 building are a bit more of a challenge. Most of the corp is bored of making Tech 1 ships and are dead set on capital production so I've made the decision to go with it. I know it's probably not the best market to get into but our minds are made up and I'm just asking for a little information so we don't get thrown in at the deep end As you said, you are really looking for a change in the production part and want a new challenge. I feel that given the current war you should be able to sell your ships relatively easily since they are not yet mainstream given the initial investment and over time more and more people will get the skills. Profit wise, I made some quick calculation, I recon that on a thanatos the profit is about 300M after paying the minerals. It does not take account of the cost of the bpo which is quite big too. Making the ship is not really too difficult. The real issue is the logistic to get all the mineral at a cheap price. Getting 1M trit cheap is doable, 100M is a bit harder. Good luck in your endeavour. forum rules \| email

Shadarle	Posted - 2007.03.29 20:58:00 - [6] I'm curious about the 300 mill profit number. Sorry to be blunt but that really doesn't mean much. If an item costs 300 mil to make and yields 300 mil that's great. If an item costs 3 billion to make and yields 300 mill profit then it's crap. I've never really seen much discussion about capital ship production. I just know there are IPO's formed to build and sell them... but I never see how profitable it is. And by profitable I mean percentage profit over the cost of materials to build (not counting BPO's). It's all about percentage profit. Why build an item that takes 100 mil trit for a 300 mil profit if you can build an item that takes 10 mil trit for a 30 mil profit, for example. I personally own a freighter now and have perfect production capability and all the funds required to finance my own building of capital ships... I just lack the details and knowledge of the exact building process and the selling process. In particular with the selling process... how does one go about finding someone to buy a given carrier or dread for example. Or are lots sold on the market/contracts? Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Ki Shodan Gallente deep blue	Posted - 2007.03.30 14:35:00 - [7] Edited by: Ki Shodan on 30/03/2007 14:40:18 Originally by: Shadarle I personally own a freighter now and have perfect production capability and all the funds required to finance my own building of capital ships... I just lack the details and knowledge of the exact building process and the selling process. In particular with the selling process... how does one go about finding someone to buy a given carrier or dread for example. Or are lots sold on the market/contracts? I think you seek a low sec Jita, since most capital stuff isn't build for High Sec. So you need to bring your Capitals to the consumer, which means mainly 0.0 Corps and alliances, i think. Bad thing for you, IMO, is most 0.0 Corps, who have the funds to buy a Capital have also already a connection to a producer, normaly someone in their Alliance. So you need to find customers, that can afford you product, but do not have already a link to another producer. Good Luck with that! You could try to spam the WTS-Forums, or leave some secure containers in the territories of diffrent alliances and hope some one reads it, instead of shooting it while gate camping. On the production process: Minerals => Capital Parts => Capital Ships While the Capital Parts can be build in normal NPC-Factories, Capital ships need to be produced at a POS, at least you need 25% less time to assemble one. (You can not build capitals in highsec NPC-Factories. I have no data on low sec, since I am out of game right now.) You can see what types of items, you can produce in a factory thru the Factory/Lab-Menu edit: added production info -- Ki Shodans Sweat Shop Evemail me, if my name is used as guarantor!
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2007.03.30 15:04:00 - [8] Originally by: Ki Shodan While the Capital Parts can be build in normal NPC-Factories, Capital ships need to be produced at a POS, at least you need 25% less time to assemble one. (You can not build capitals in highsec NPC-Factories. I have no data on low sec, since I am out of game right now.) You can make them in lowsec and 0.0 npc stations, it's only motherships and titans that need to be built at a POS. When I've bought capitals, they've always been off a market contract, the ships trade channel in-game or a guy I know who makes them. The forums might work but really I'd try trade channels first. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.03.30 16:37:00 - [9] I'm glad to hear you can build them in NPC stations. I guess the only question I have left is the profit level... but I can probably figure it out myself based on contract prices and then adding up mineral costs. Thanks for all the useful info everyone :) One more question I just thought up... what ships are better to make, Dreads or Carriers? Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Ki Shodan Gallente deep blue	Posted - 2007.03.30 16:44:00 - [10] You guys might want to check out the Capital Ship Construction Calculator at EVE Help Files. Never tried it, but might be helpfull for you. -- Ki Shodans Sweat Shop Evemail me, if my name is used as guarantor!
Anomalous Result Caldari Mercoxit Magnates	Posted - 2007.03.30 21:05:00 - [11] Thanks for all the info peoples. If anyone can answer the questions I asked, I'd appreciate it. We're currently bartering for a couple of 1-run freighter bpcs to try out capital construction. We've been discussing financing for it and I believe we have enough between us to build one, which we'll probably keep to help with logistics. Financing for the second might come from outside the corp. ~~~ We Make Stuff!
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.03.30 23:51:00 - [12] With my basic look into the production of capital ships it seems to be extremely NOT worthwhile. Wow... there is absolutely no margin for producing capital ships. You would need ME of 3 or greater to make any sort of money on capital ships... and that's not easy to get. Even with a good level of ME though the profit on these ships is pitiful... it would both easier and more profitable to sell your minerals on the market than to build lots of these ships. In the absolute best case you are making 10-15% profit. I can make more than that with battleships and battle cruisers so why would I bother wasting all the time and effort to make capital ships? Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.03.31 00:48:00 - [13] Upon even further inspection it seems that it will cost me 20 billion ISK or so to get all the capital ship component BPO's already researched. Hmmm... seems like a decent way to invest some of my money. Does anyone know how likely it would be to find someone willing to sell a whole bunch of these BPO's? Only 5 of 19 are showing up on contracts atm... perhaps this will simply be a slow process of picking them all up? It would then cost at least another 15 billion to get most of the capital ship BPO's. So I could say anyone who wants to really make money on this and have heavy production capability needs 35 billion ISK just to buy up all the needed items. This drops to a mere 10 billion or so to do Freighter production, perhaps several billion less if you want to only make a single one. Then you need another 1-2 billion per ship you wish to be able to make. I think I need to update my spreadsheet to include BPO asset value if I get into this Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2007.03.31 11:03:00 - [14] Edited by: Ricdic on 31/03/2007 11:01:24 Originally by: Shadarle Upon even further inspection it seems that it will cost me 20 billion ISK or so to get all the capital ship component BPO's already researched. Hmmm... seems like a decent way to invest some of my money. Does anyone know how likely it would be to find someone willing to sell a whole bunch of these BPO's? Only 5 of 19 are showing up on contracts atm... perhaps this will simply be a slow process of picking them all up? Or just buy the unresearched ones, start a few research alts with a few hours training on them, have those research alts join my alliance with their own alt researching corp, and research the bpo's themselves without anyone else touching the bpo's, always staying in high security empire. Alternately, if you have any researching/science account/characters, have them do it instead. Within 6 hours per character, you can have a character who can run 4 jobs concurrently, and still do it 10% faster than an NPC station. Interested? If so, give me a bell in-game. 100% safe and unbreakable way to research without the wait for slots. My costs are approx 4m per slot per month, and 25% faster than npc research slots. Insured Research and Production Services
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.03.31 15:46:00 - [15] I may be interested, but so far the BPO's I've seen on contracts are priced slightly below market value actually. So it must be former producers selling their stuff off. If I get full steam into it though I'd definitely need more than what people are selling and may take you up on your proposal Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
SonOfAGhost Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.04.01 05:37:00 - [16] Sounds like you're a small-midsize operation at this point. Pick what cap-ship you want to build first and don't buy it. Get the components for it first, probably one BPO at a time (some are under a 1 bil), and build/copy them to sell to others to finance the huge twin expenses of getting the rest of the BPOs and the minerals to produce them. I've got 2 components so far personally and a client buying all my production. 56 of each/week is approximately 75 million units of various minerals. So gradually scaling up your production will also help you grow into the massive logistics undertaking. Oh, and you did notice the built components are 10,000 m3 each right? To your specific questions in the OP though: 1) probably not, most BPC sellers (not just capital) try to make as much from the BPC as they would profit from building. In the case of some, the BPC costs as much as a built item. BPCs are great for something you only want a small number of. Ongoing production of capitals exludes the possiblity of doing things on a small scale. Owning the BPO will save you hundereds of millions in the long run and you'll still have a saleable asset. 2) Don't know, don't care, I just buy BPOs for anything Minmatar, anything can be profitable if you find (or better yet make ) the right market. It then comes down to balancing profit margin, sales volume and manufacturing capacity. 3) Probably quite a bit. I make a decent profit selling my components. I know I could get more for them on the open market but for how much I have invested in it the predicitability of a regular client works well. At least until I need those components for my own ships. 4) I'd suggest double the NPC cost of the component BPO(s). You want enough to buy them, minerals to build with and some left for other endeavours. 5) Not essential, just reduced profits 6) Possibly, especially if you do your own components there should be enough margin for you and lenders/investors to all be satisfied. That said, having done some components on your own would likely be a pre-requisite to show you have the ability to manage a multi-billion project profitably and the logistics capacity to acquire and move the huge volumes of minerals and possibly components.
Anomalous Result Caldari Mercoxit Magnates	Posted - 2007.04.01 21:56:00 - [17] Originally by: SonOfAGhost Sounds like you're a small-midsize operation at this point. Pick what cap-ship you want to build first and don't buy it. Get the components for it first, probably one BPO at a time (some are under a 1 bil), and build/copy them to sell to others to finance the huge twin expenses of getting the rest of the BPOs and the minerals to produce them. I've got 2 components so far personally and a client buying all my production. 56 of each/week is approximately 75 million units of various minerals. So gradually scaling up your production will also help you grow into the massive logistics undertaking. Oh, and you did notice the built components are 10,000 m3 each right? To your specific questions in the OP though: 1) probably not, most BPC sellers (not just capital) try to make as much from the BPC as they would profit from building. In the case of some, the BPC costs as much as a built item. BPCs are great for something you only want a small number of. Ongoing production of capitals exludes the possiblity of doing things on a small scale. Owning the BPO will save you hundereds of millions in the long run and you'll still have a saleable asset. 2) Don't know, don't care, I just buy BPOs for anything Minmatar, anything can be profitable if you find (or better yet make ) the right market. It then comes down to balancing profit margin, sales volume and manufacturing capacity. 3) Probably quite a bit. I make a decent profit selling my components. I know I could get more for them on the open market but for how much I have invested in it the predicitability of a regular client works well. At least until I need those components for my own ships. 4) I'd suggest double the NPC cost of the component BPO(s). You want enough to buy them, minerals to build with and some left for other endeavours. 5) Not essential, just reduced profits 6) Possibly, especially if you do your own components there should be enough margin for you and lenders/investors to all be satisfied. That said, having done some components on your own would likely be a pre-requisite to show you have the ability to manage a multi-billion project profitably and the logistics capacity to acquire and move the huge volumes of minerals and possibly components. Thanks for all that info, it's good to know the facts. I'll need to get a lot of isk together to buy bpos. So far, the corp and I have been discussing financing and we've made a few decisions: 1) Liquidate all the corp assets apart from minerals. This is already underway, not much left to get rid of. 2) Purchase a freighter to help with logistics (I'll fly it since I already have the skills and just never bought the ship). This will leave us with roughly 200-300mil in minerals 3) Seek outside investment to cover the start-up costs. 4) Profit! Since I don't know many people who would be willing to invest in a corp without a detailed and proven history, we'll start up in stages. I myself never used to post on the forums or anything so this is all new to me. I've been reading up on public investments and think it's the route to go but we will have to start small and do it in stages to earn the trust required to get enough isk. As per suggestions in this thread, we'll start with component bpos and move onto the actual ships later. I'm also thinking of doing Tech 2 components so we'll see how that goes. Plenty of ideas so I'd best discuss this with the other corpmates and draw up a business plan, maybe make a website. Thanks for all the help. We'll definitely start with bpos. ~~~ We Make Stuff!
Parodius Mercoxit Magnates	Posted - 2007.04.01 22:45:00 - [18] I will train for the freighter too if you buy me the skills.
Anomalous Result Caldari Mercoxit Magnates	Posted - 2007.04.02 02:43:00 - [19] The skills cost a lot of isk and I'd rather be the only one to fly the freighter since it's mostly my isk going toward it. According to these volume calcs I've been doing, we'll need to get at least one more later. I'll get a corp freighter and buy you the skills when we get the financing but we probably won't need it for a few months. ~~~ We Make Stuff!
David H'Levi Sniggerdly	Posted - 2007.04.02 04:58:00 - [20] Edited by: David H''Levi on 02/04/2007 04:55:43 Originally by: Anomalous Result 1) would it be best to use bpcs to get started? Others have said it, but the answer is 'not really.' You can eek a thin margin out of BPCs sometimes, which makes it worthwhile, but that'll be more addressed in the next question. Originally by: Anomalous Result 2) what capital ships are good moneymakers? are freighters still good or would carriers be best to start on? Do yourself a favor now and make a spreadsheet with the mineral costs of every capital ship you could conceivably afford to build, starting with the components and all the way up to the ship itself. Make sure it is adjustable according to mineral value, and has an accurate ME value (ME 1 for the ship BPO and ME 10-20 for the component BPOs is a good starting point). You will be able to precisely calculate the cost of each and every capital and capital component to build regardless of market fluctuations, which will give you a clear idea of which BPCs might be profitable. Originally by: Anomalous Result 3) how much could I save by finding a regular supplier for parts rather than using the market? Tons, or very, very well, if any. It all depends. All contractors are going to charge you for the convenience, but you probably won't even be able to find enough parts on the market, so you'd have to buy all the BPOs. You face a decent markup, and you're going to lose a lot of your profits right there, but it beats the crap out of buying all the BPOs this early in the process. Originally by: Anomalous Result 4) What kind of liquid isk should I be aiming for before we can start using bpos? I'd personally recommend that you can afford the BPO(s), a month or two worth of production, and enough to recoup all your losses in the event of diaster. So maybe BPO price + 2-5b + 2b? I'm very conservative, however. Originally by: Anomalous Result 5) is it really essential to buy all the component bpos yourself to make a good profit and how much would a full set cost you? What's a good profit? Without buying the component BPOs you'll have a higher return on investment, even if you just sell copies. With them, you'll make much, much more. It's the difference between several hundred million and maybe a hundred million tops. Your choice, however. I'd recommend starting small - after all, you can always fall back on selling BPCs. Originally by: Anomalous Result 6) for raising isk, would it be a good idea to take out a loan (is anyone even offering them?)? What about getting a few investors involved? I'd go with investors, personally. Most of the loan rates don't look so good in your case, and most are secured with collateral (bad for you, since you need to raise even more money unless you have a T2 BPO lying around or something). I'd find a few friends who wanted to do the same thing and get them to help raise money. Or just agent ***** for a few weeks with 100% tax. If you need loans, BMBE and ISSO are the only two publicly held loan companies that I know of - they're a good place to start. [EDITED: The language filter can be so silly sometimes]. As much as you may love me, your signature must pertain to your in-game persona, and thus I must remove it. -Conuion Meow
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.04.02 17:05:00 - [21] Personally I'd avoid getting outside financing. It changes the venture from a fun corp thing to a hard nosed business which you have to work at very tough to satisfy the investors or to pay them back. Plus you're losing profits to them. It all depends how much money you and your corp make I suppose... but I'd want to use all of my own/corps money so I was able to keep all my profits. This is also a long term venture which can take months to even get to the first bit of profit you'll see. So you're paying long term for any loan you take... and it makes it harder to get investors. Start smaller as someone said. Buy 1-2 component BPO's and then sell them to someone to raise money and get used to the massive mineral reqs you'd have. Then step up production as you get the money. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Anomalous Result Caldari Mercoxit Magnates	Posted - 2007.04.04 22:45:00 - [22] Thanks for all the help guys. It's really appreciated and my mind is made up now. I'm almost done writing up the business and investment plan, will post it once I'm done. This is all very exciting and the corp (or the ones that aren't MIA at least) are all raring to go. We've decided to go with a public investment scheme and start off really small with one component bpo. Anyway you'll see the plan when it's done, it needs more work and I need to get spreadsheets sorted out to make it easy for us to publish accounts and such. ~~~ We Make Stuff!
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2007.04.09 15:31:00 - [23] It's been a few days, I hope you're still going ahead with this plan. I have been looking for a bunch of small companies to spread about a billion in investment isk over in 100-200m lots over the summer (not keeping all my eggs in one basket and all that) but only if the business plan is solid and I think the rewards are worth the risk. The mothership IPO already folded and I was ready to invest in that :/. Maybe this just isn't a good time for IPOs. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.

Pages: [1] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.