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Karmilla Strife
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
501
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Posted - 2016.11.08 02:37:46 -
[31] - Quote
This one started out so well thought out, I knew it would be derailed within hours. Thank you OP for the briefest window into the mindset of a sometimes difficult to understand ally. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
6676
|
Posted - 2016.11.08 03:02:31 -
[32] - Quote
Kolodi Ramal wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Don't forget that dissent without consequences is like competition without consequences. If you flout the consensus you'd better be right otherwise, in the words of my Instructors, you get left. How often does it matter who's right? A majority usually has the power to crush dissent - or just smother it. Sometimes all it takes is a single person of vision in the right place at the right time. A meritocracy relies on metrics and competition to cast the right light on the worth of dissension from the established wisdom.
The people are often very good at spotting truth.
For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead
in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a
hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
|
Matias Kurovassi
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2016.11.08 06:30:52 -
[33] - Quote
Karmilla Strife wrote:This one started out so well thought out, I knew it would be derailed within hours. Thank you OP for the briefest window into the mindset of a sometimes difficult to understand ally.
My thanks for the compliment!
I am however more than aware that galnet comments sections are filled with the usual coteries of trolls, personal insults, threats of violence, and people arguing inane points not because they are right but because they cannot admit they are wrong -- even if they look like idiots.
I do think I am able to present my thoughts in a manner that they are able to stand on their own merits for those reading them without my participation in the aforementioned ignominious commentary. |
Jason Galente
Hole Riders Spaceship Samurai
864
|
Posted - 2016.11.08 12:16:43 -
[34] - Quote
Good on ya mate.
I don't have the patience for that when it comes to some of these people.
Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole.
And this foundation must be defended.
At any cost
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Jason Galente
Hole Riders Spaceship Samurai
864
|
Posted - 2016.11.08 12:19:50 -
[35] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Jason Galente wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Merchant Rova wrote:Diana Kim wrote:gallente bottomfeeders Miss Kim, as much as you complain about ad hominem attacks being used against you, why do use constantly use them in yourself? If they come with the sword, they will die from the sword. You realize that applies to you as well, right? Which means, cyclically, you have no right to complain. Where do you see complaining, gallentean liar?
On every thread you've ever touched.
Ever.
"You said something mildly negative about me? HOW DARE YOU LIE ABOUT CALDARI OFFICER I'M GOING TO THROW A TODDLER FIT AND DISRUPT EVERYONE ELSE'S CONVERSATION!"
Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole.
And this foundation must be defended.
At any cost
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Ria Nieyli
46946
|
Posted - 2016.11.08 14:01:33 -
[36] - Quote
Interesting piece, Mr. Kurovassi, I enjoyed reading it. |
Merchant Rova
Pathway to the Next
74
|
Posted - 2016.11.08 16:22:38 -
[37] - Quote
Jason, Kim, could we please keep on topic?
Down with the traitor and up with the stars!
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
2552
|
Posted - 2016.11.08 16:56:59 -
[38] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Kolodi Ramal wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Don't forget that dissent without consequences is like competition without consequences. If you flout the consensus you'd better be right otherwise, in the words of my Instructors, you get left. How often does it matter who's right? A majority usually has the power to crush dissent - or just smother it. Sometimes all it takes is a single person of vision in the right place at the right time. A meritocracy relies on metrics and competition to cast the right light on the worth of dissension from the established wisdom. The people are often very good at spotting truth. Uh-- also, Mr. Ramal, dissidents in the State are tolerated partly because they provide alternative ideas and points of view, helping to highlight other directions leaders might decide to take the society in. The majority's power in the State is intentionally circumscribed. "The (meritorious) few" are trusted to rule because they're qualified to do it. "The majority" is disempowered because while it may be noble in its way, it's also neither trained nor temperamentally suited for rulership.
It's common for Federal citizens to believe that Federal values and systems would work for everyone, but hopes for democracy in the State should come with a warning: "be careful what you wish for."
The last time the people of the State spoke, they lifted Tibus Heth to power. |
Matar Ronin
2557
|
Posted - 2016.11.08 17:32:21 -
[39] - Quote
The Caldari State has a track record that includes much to be admired. However like any human operated and devised system it is not perfect.
Unrestrained corporatism like unrestrained Democracy can be a very bad thing. Meritocracy is very alluring and rewarding, but sometimes the deck gets stacked against certain classes of people and they are not able to compete and demonstrate the true merits of what they could otherwise have to offer.
Blind patriotism is not patriotism at all.
To be a patriot one must be a realist and recognize the flaws and be willing to work sometimes within the system and sometimes outside of the system to correct them. The Caldari State produced both Otro Gariushi and the thug tibus heth. Ying and yang, the crucible that can develop greatness for good can also develop great evil.
The patriots of the Caldari State stood up and cast out the evil that had grabbed power and sought to mutate the Caldari State into something of his own twisted imaginings. The Caldari patriots who did this had to have a level of freedom and the right to question authority to save the Caldari State.
The future of the Caldari State is likely to be a fine balancing act between short term requirements versus long term convictions, in a system where things of merit rise to the top we can only hope that the evil never completely grabs control of the Caldari State again. Given the chance the Caldari people will continue to contribute to the great diversity of human achievement in the New Eden Cluster in a perfectly imperfect human fashion. Don't bet against them.
GÇÿVain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.GÇÖ
" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
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Matias Kurovassi
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2016.11.08 17:40:33 -
[40] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote: The last time the people of the State spoke, they lifted Tibus Heth to power.
I do have my doubts it was the people of the State who provided the tens of trillions of ISK necessary to purchase the stock in Caldari Constructions to install Tibus Heth as its CEO and then launch a leadership challenge of Kaalakiota itself.
If that did not happen I do not believe a suitable platform would have existed to create a true base of popular support.
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
2552
|
Posted - 2016.11.08 18:06:37 -
[41] - Quote
Matias Kurovassi wrote:Aria Jenneth wrote:The last time the people of the State spoke, they lifted Tibus Heth to power. I do have my doubts it was the people of the State who provided the tens of trillions of ISK necessary to purchase the stock in Caldari Constructions to install Tibus Heth as its CEO and then launch a leadership challenge of Kaalakiota itself. If that did not happen I do not believe a suitable platform would have existed to create a true base of popular support. I'm more talking about the popular uprising that preceded those events, Mr. Kurovassi, not the formal power shift itself.
As I understand it (since I no longer have any memory of that time), the State's megacorporate elite had become both complacent and entitled, and had begun abusing its authority over the Caldari people rather than serving subordinates' interests as well as its own.
(I've historically characterized this as Federal efforts to introduce individualism into the State misfiring-- hitting only the elites who could afford the media products that were the vector, rather than influencing the Caldari people as a whole. I'm not sure I'm wrong about this, but, again, I don't actually remember this time anymore.)
It became pretty clear that the choices for the corporations were reform or open revolt and likely revolution. The megacorporations chose reform, and survival-- and to accept a leader of the revolt as a new corporate CEO. Heth's ascension to Executor came later (also with huge popular support).
... It is pretty clear someone was financing him, of course, but it no longer seems all that hard to figure out who since we learned about his connections to the Templis Dragonaurs. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2934
|
Posted - 2016.11.08 19:30:14 -
[42] - Quote
Persephone Alleile wrote:A cursory glance at Colonel Kim's public record shows that 25% of her 11,453 confirmed kills are solo, so that's around 2,863 solo kills. In fact she has 7 recorded solo kills in the past week.
I respect your convictions Matar Ronin, but I do not see the wisdom in pursuing this. Thank you for bringing it. I really don't want to brag, but ignorance and dementia of this Matar Ronin is really annoying.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2934
|
Posted - 2016.11.08 19:33:57 -
[43] - Quote
Jason Galente wrote: "You said something mildly negative about me? HOW DARE YOU LIE ABOUT CALDARI OFFICER I'M GOING TO THROW A TODDLER FIT AND DISRUPT EVERYONE ELSE'S CONVERSATION!"
First, I never behaved like a toddler, only a troll would claim I did. And second, if you don't like being called a liar, maybe you should consider stopping lying about others?
I mean, just try? And meanwhile if you fail to do this and cant discuss the topic instead of discussing participants of discussion, please be so kind to vacate the frequency.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2934
|
Posted - 2016.11.08 19:39:33 -
[44] - Quote
Matias Kurovassi wrote:I am however more than aware that galnet comments sections are filled ... and people arguing inane points not because they are right but because they cannot admit they are wrong -- even if they look like idiots. Speaking about, I have asked you provide proofs to several of your outrageous (and exceptionally insulting and wrong) statements, which you hasn't provided so far.
If you can't bring them, maybe it's time to admit yourself in being wrong? That's acceptable alternative that will help you to maintain your face.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Merchant Rova
Pathway to the Next
75
|
Posted - 2016.11.08 19:45:06 -
[45] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Persephone Alleile wrote:A cursory glance at Colonel Kim's public record shows that 25% of her 11,453 confirmed kills are solo, so that's around 2,863 solo kills. In fact she has 7 recorded solo kills in the past week.
I respect your convictions Matar Ronin, but I do not see the wisdom in pursuing this. Thank you for bringing it. I really don't want to brag, but ignorance and dementia of this Matar Ronin is really annoying. "I really don't want to brag" then why are you posting that comment?
Now before you use an attack me with a phrase like "Gallente Bootlicker" or whatever you're fond of, let me say that you you incite most of the drama on this forum. The only reason you are here is to be inflammatory and derail the conversation. Ever tried not flaunting your massive ego?
No one likes you for a reason Kim. So leave. Stop harassing everyone on here.
Down with the traitor and up with the stars!
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2935
|
Posted - 2016.11.08 20:11:44 -
[46] - Quote
Merchant Rova wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Persephone Alleile wrote:A cursory glance at Colonel Kim's public record shows that 25% of her 11,453 confirmed kills are solo, so that's around 2,863 solo kills. In fact she has 7 recorded solo kills in the past week.
I respect your convictions Matar Ronin, but I do not see the wisdom in pursuing this. Thank you for bringing it. I really don't want to brag, but ignorance and dementia of this Matar Ronin is really annoying. "I really don't want to brag" then why are you posting that comment?Now before you use an attack me with a phrase like "Gallente Bootlicker" or whatever you're fond of, let me say that you you incite most of the drama on this forum. The only reason you are here is to be inflammatory and derail the conversation. Ever tried not flaunting your massive ego? No one likes you for a reason Kim. So leave. Stop harassing everyone on here. To appreciate her bringing it. Though I bet ungrateful gallenteans like you simply fail to understand such principle.
And no, if you still fail to comprehend, the derailing is caused by trolls who start to discuss myself instead of topic (here it was this Matar Ronin). And you are, actually, one of them. It is because of YOU and likes of you I have to reply on your trolling to alleviate all these slanders you bring about me, instead of discussing the topic.
So, back to you. Leave, noisy creature.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Doctor Gallento
Doctor Gallento - the Rock'n'Roll Clown
14
|
Posted - 2016.11.10 00:30:50 -
[47] - Quote
My dearest warrior princess! I literally have an entire wall in my mood room filled with pictures of you. Can you help my inspiration and send me some more? Preferably in more of these sleek uniforms.
Thanks in advance. Your Doctor Gallento |
Anabella Rella
Gradient
2308
|
Posted - 2016.11.10 06:32:11 -
[48] - Quote
Pilot Rova and Pilot Gellento I'd strongly suggest not feeding the troll Kim.
When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
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Doctor Gallento
Doctor Gallento - the Rock'n'Roll Clown
15
|
Posted - 2016.11.10 11:19:04 -
[49] - Quote
It's Doctor Gallento, thank you very much, |
Yarosara Ruil
Haighare Pirates
676
|
Posted - 2016.11.10 12:03:52 -
[50] - Quote
Doctor Gallento wrote:It's Doctor Gallento, thank you very much,
I wouldn't take much consideration over what Miss Rella says, Mister Doctor Gallento. She labelled me a couple of nasty things just because I had a bit of a rebellious phase during teenage! And then she blocked me...
But yeah, riling up Miss Kim always ends up badly for everyone involved. I imagine poor Miss Kim's blood pressure by now! |
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Luna Hanaya
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
201
|
Posted - 2016.11.10 17:56:03 -
[51] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:Pilot Rova and Pilot Gellento I'd strongly suggest not feeding the troll Kim. Some peoples should look in mirror before calling others like that. Maybe Kim is offensive on forums, but Rella is a special pearl in that regard.
((
If you are a roleplayer, please join official CCP channels ingame for roleplayers and support roleplaying community:
Intergalactic Summit - IC router
Out of Character - channel for discussion of roleplay, live events and lore
))
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2935
|
Posted - 2016.11.10 18:06:46 -
[52] - Quote
Ah, I see that rabid tribal dog still spreads lies about me. Nothing changes in these parts of space.
And Hanaya. I am NOT offensive to those, who aren't enemy of the State or position themselves like that by spreading anti-Caldari propaganda (for example, by slandering Caldari Officers). YOUR OWN statement is on a verge of decency.
Being offensive to open hostile elements for a soldier is not offensiveness. It is called professionalism.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Doctor Gallento
Doctor Gallento - the Rock'n'Roll Clown
17
|
Posted - 2016.11.11 00:24:56 -
[53] - Quote
Post more, darling! More! Please! GÖÑ |
morion
Lighting Build
147
|
Posted - 2016.11.11 02:33:51 -
[54] - Quote
Diana Kim. Reference to kin as "it" and "Tribal Dog"
Paints you in poor taste and shows your true colors for what they are.
A poor representation of what humanity has to offer of intolerance of others.
Perhaps prayer in the church of Jita mart is not working for you?
Turning you bitter towards other race not your own. |
Matias Kurovassi
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
23
|
Posted - 2016.11.13 01:05:11 -
[55] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Matias Kurovassi wrote:Aria Jenneth wrote:The last time the people of the State spoke, they lifted Tibus Heth to power. I do have my doubts it was the people of the State who provided the tens of trillions of ISK necessary to purchase the stock in Caldari Constructions to install Tibus Heth as its CEO and then launch a leadership challenge of Kaalakiota itself. If that did not happen I do not believe a suitable platform would have existed to create a true base of popular support. I'm more talking about the popular uprising that preceded those events, Mr. Kurovassi, not the formal power shift itself. As I understand it (since I no longer have any memory of that time), the State's megacorporate elite had become both complacent and entitled, and had begun abusing its authority over the Caldari people rather than serving subordinates' interests as well as its own. (I've historically characterized this as Federal efforts to introduce individualism into the State misfiring-- hitting only the elites who could afford the media products that were the vector, rather than influencing the Caldari people as a whole. I'm not sure I'm wrong about this, but, again, I don't actually remember this time anymore.) It became pretty clear that the choices for the corporations were reform or open revolt and likely revolution. The megacorporations chose reform, and survival-- and to accept a leader of the revolt as a new corporate CEO. Heth's ascension to Executor came later (also with huge popular support). ... It is pretty clear someone was financing him, of course, but it no longer seems all that hard to figure out who since we learned about his connections to the Templis Dragonaurs.
Ms. Jenneth
The attempt at revolution Tibus Heth sought was not new, the rebellion of the so-called Brothers of Freedom preceded the man, and if one read their rhetoric it was in-line with Federal and Gallentean ideology insofar as its adherence to notions of individual rights and fighting against, "Corporate tyranny".
If Tibus Heth did not have the financial backing to usurp power within Kaalakiota he would be dead and forgotten in Piak courtesy of the Home Guard.
You may believe the Megacorporations supported the man due to his, "Popular Support," However that was always going to be less important than the fact as CEO of KK he held significant clout over the largest corporation in the State and in the Home Guard the largest military outside of CalNav.
To deal with him in the same manner as the BoF, which had already cost the lives of millions in Pacification operations, would have been costly and divisive to the point of actually realizing a civil war within the State. A realization many in the Federation would have liked to see, but it is the nature of corporate leadership to have the wisdom to not play into the hands of your enemies.
That is beside the point that, as events after Haatomo showed, sometimes it is better to bide your time and allow the enemies from within to reveal themselves while offering enough rope so that they may hang themselves later.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2935
|
Posted - 2016.11.13 11:10:38 -
[56] - Quote
Mr. Matias Kurovassi
You have been demanded to bring evidences to your hollow slanders about CPD even on the first page. You have been reminded once more again, and yet you haven't done this. At this moment I will dare to question your reliability as a speaker and your allegiance, since similar slanderers are profitable to no one except Gallente Federation.
Shall you consider to stay on this path, I believe the best course of action will be to just discard your words as pro-gallentean propaganda and general trolling.
D. Kim, Strike Cmdr., State Protectorate, Caldari State
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Keramor
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
9
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Posted - 2016.11.13 11:38:52 -
[57] - Quote
Come on, seriously? Don't act as if you're denser than a neutron star: "Figure of speech.", go look it up. He even wanted to get rid of the megas to define what is caldari. That aside you're acting like a prime example for all that you want sources on. |
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Noticed.
2077
|
Posted - 2016.11.26 09:35:10 -
[58] - Quote
To be clear, when I consider what it is to be Caldari I do not regard it in the same manner of say, liberal identity politics in the Federation. Sure, in the Federation identity is a subjective reality defined by the individual where I can simply state that I identify as a Kestrel Attack Frigate and my preferred pronoun is, "Majestic Kestrel", Veikitamo Gesakaarin and to do otherwise constitutes a hate crime against myself as a member of the minority who identify as a Kestrel Attack Frigate.
To be Caldari is not a subjective reality open to appropriation by solipsistic fantasists. It is an objective reality. A social construct with qualitative attributes: Genetically pure Civire, Deteis or other ethnicity which can trace lineage back to the Caldari Homeworld. As such there exists Caldari citizens of the State and there exists non-Caldari citizens of the State. To do otherwise, to accept the progressive liberalism of the Federation as it applies to identity is to also completely renounce any adherence to empirical and objective truth as it applies to society and the role of the individual within it.
To do so would completely destroy any semblance of reality as it applies to other forms of identity. Reality can become whatever someone says it is and everyone has to enter a state of cognitive dissonance in order to accept subjective reality instead of empirical truths. That is the precedent set by saying, I am whoever I say I am, even when it is patently false. Just identify as whatever you want like it's the next piece of fashion in season. |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
4396
|
Posted - 2016.11.26 10:45:49 -
[59] - Quote
I might argue that there's an important difference between body and political allegiance.
The former is ostensibly a matter of reality, though that's less the case nowadays in the age of cloning, gene therapy and advanced surgery. If I really wanted there's no theoretical obstacle preventing me from, say, cloning into the body of a female Sebiestor. It wouldn't even be the most extreme case of body-modification I've seen.
Doing so would probably do me quite a lot of harm in terms of my mental health and of course I'd come out of it still thinking, behaving and speaking like a Civire man, but... in a purely practical sense, we are living in an age where a person's gender and apparent ethnicity are less fixed and immutable than they once were.
Besides, we're capsuleers which means we've all died and had a full-body transplant. That's about as extreme a rewriting of the objective reality as you could ask for. My clones bear my DNA because they were induced to, which makes the whole notion of "genetically pure" seem a little less substantial.
But... whatever. I'll grant you for now that Caldari ethnicity, gender identity and so on really are as carved in the stars as you say.
IS the State just about genetic purity?
The State was founded to preserve a way of life. A people, a heritage, traditions, all of which were under threat from a force that many of our people characterize as malevolent but which I've always preferred to think of as leaden-footed and obtuse. Individual citizens of the Federation have often impressed me with their intelligence, insight and sensitivity, and I've met some who (unbeknownst to them) absolutely characterized the very best Caldari ideals without meaning to. One of the finest officers I ever had the pleasure of witnessing in action was a FedNav admiral who spoke wistfully of getting back home to his husband after the op.
The Federation seen as a collective whole, however, is a big blind trampling lummox of a thing that just does what it does without particularly watching where its feet land, and the State was founded as an entirely justified attempt to escape from under its crushing paws and put up a fence to keep it at bay.
But is that all we are? I hope not, because if our entire civilization is built around not being the Federation then there's no strength of our own to fall back on.
But we demonstrably DO have strength. We have our convictions, our ideals and our objectives, and I don't see any good reason why those things should be constrained by ethnicity, sexuality or gender. If a Khanid woman, an Intaki man, or a Brutor who prefers to think of themselves as being somewhere between the two, or whoever else and whatever else they may be... If they resonate with Caldari ideals - if they want to put in the work, the effort and the sacrifice and live by the meritocratic ideals of a megacorp - then as far as I'm concerned they're Caldari in the more important sense of the word.
The ethnic, genetic and homeworld heritage side of the State is... nice, I guess. I derive comfort from te religion of my ancestors and from having that connection to a place and a history, but nobody could ever accuse Caldari society of being built for the comfort of the people living in it. I am proud to be Caldari in that sense, but the State that I love and work for in my own way is an ideal and an aspiration, not a history.
And that ideal can welcome anybody.
AKA Hambone
Author of The Deathworlders
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Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Noticed.
2078
|
Posted - 2016.11.26 15:36:12 -
[60] - Quote
Stitcher wrote: IS the State just about genetic purity?
For determining who is, and who is not Caldari as part of social structures: Yes.
Unequivocally.
I'll call Fatal and the Rabbit as Caldari due to their heritage and genetic lineage before I'll call someone who is ostensibly Achuran or half-bred for example as Caldari -- even if they are citizens of the State.
The ideals of the State are simple to me: The advancement of the Caldari people.
Those who do not trace their descent back to the Homeworld are not Caldari, and no matter what they may do as citizen or non-citizen, they will never be Caldari due to it. They remain as guests at best, a demographic threat at worst.
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