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Wow, at least some mission probers are really good, or really lucky.

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Iomar Uisdean Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.29 19:34:00 - [1] Note: I am NOT whining about being caught in low sec and getting my billion isk boat shot out from under me. I didn't lose my boat, besides it was just a Jaguar and worth less then 50 million isk, including T2 mods. I pay careful attention in low sec and I take all appropiate precautions. I accept the challenges of missioning alone in low sec. I am just suprised a Covert Ops prober was able to probe out my mission and call in his rather impressive squad from the next system over. I am also somewhat amused they even bothered..... I usually mission in sparsely populated low sec, using a low signature Jaguar Assault Frigate with ECCM mods fitted. No drones, of course. The odds of getting a hit on such a boat ought to be pretty darn poor. Yes, people try now and then, everyone gives up eventually. Yes, I keep local open and anyone that isn't Santa Claus I regard as a potential pirate. Actually, I'd be pretty suspicous of Santa if he lingered more then a few minutes. Some of the smarter ones figure out quickly that the mission runner they're trying to find isn't flying a big juicy faction BS with a cloud of drones around it so they move on. Anyway, this one person was able to probe out my tiny Jag in a mission deaspace. They were at it for quite a long time, I saw the probes on my scanner come and go, once or twice I even spotted the Helios on my scanner. I saw them getting closer.....and closer. Then I saw the Helios smack the can I dropped at the mission warp-in. And I saw local fill up. .........and they saw my vapor trail. All I can think of is they were doing it for the thrill of the hunt. There can't be much profit in hunting a guy in a cheap ship that should be darn hard to find and harder to catch or get anything worthwhile out of. Props for trying. Props for persistance. Props for actually finding me. Props for the good natured banter once I had myself safely tucked away in a station and not complaining how hard it is to sucessfully pirate people who take appropiate measures and are half awake and paying attention. And thanks also for not mucking up the objectives of my mission so I could return and finish later, having only lost the time bonus.
Zalathar Minmatar Biometaloid INC	Posted - 2007.03.29 19:45:00 - [2] i am not flamming our topic, but what is the point of this post? other than u being lucky in your bad luck? ~~~~~~ sig currently being remastered (it was too large) ~~~~~~
Annuke Caldari	Posted - 2007.03.29 19:55:00 - [3] I remember a song back from when I was little that fits well with pirates and 0.0 alliances that blow everything up that's neutral.... This land is my land, This land is my land, I got a shotgun, You don't have one, I blow your head off, If you dont get off, This land was made for only me.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.03.29 20:15:00 - [4] Originally by: Zalathar i am not flamming our topic, but what is the point of this post? other than u being lucky in your bad luck? I must agree with the concerns above. Please revise the OP with more all caps screaming and blubbering about pirate griefers, losing your CNR, the sorry state of mission loot, you and all your friends are quitting EVE, the end is nigh, etcetera, etcetera, so that we can all read something we've seen at least a dozen times before. We in the mission forum are deeply uncomfortable with ambiguous but vaguely positive posts such as yours. Thanks. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Zalathar Minmatar Biometaloid INC	Posted - 2007.03.29 20:29:00 - [5] i think that there should be a whine sticky at the top of every formu page, so we dont have to listen to people who are really ****ed off because they lost their 5bill fitted carrier. i know this is not a whine, but i still do not understand the point of the OP. is he saying the mission prbers are very dedicated? skilled? firendly? all of the above? if there was a clear topic of discussion then we could actually discuss what the OP is actually saying. ~~~~~~ sig currently being remastered (it was too large) ~~~~~~
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2007.03.29 20:42:00 - [6] He was just commenting on how determined this one apparently was. And regardless whether there is that much to discuss about it, it's good to see someone reporting his successes instead of the usual complaints. It might actually prompt others to follow suit so overall a good post imo. BTW Iomar, did your mission have a gate? ------------------- Say What?
Leandro Salazar Bravehearts Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.29 20:54:00 - [7] Imho the OP shows that probing DOES work if you actually put in an effort. And that even if you are probed out, it does not neccessarily mean you are insta-dead. Basically both the mission-runner crybabies and the prober-crybabies are wrong, and everything is actually more or less fine. --------- There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Kestrel There is no 'e' in Caldari
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.03.29 20:55:00 - [8] Originally by: Zalathar i know this is not a whine, but i still do not understand the point of the OP. is he saying the mission prbers are very dedicated? skilled? firendly? all of the above? if there was a clear topic of discussion then we could actually discuss what the OP is actually saying. That's fair, I guess. Personally I don't see much to discuss either, yet it's still interesting to me because I run missions in a very similar way. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2007.03.29 22:03:00 - [9] Props to the OP for actually using his brain and stacking the deck in his favor. An ECCM fit Jag is about the hardest thing I could personally think of to try and probe out lol. As for the pirates, they just got extremely lucky. No other way around it. Because I said so...
Fork Boy	Posted - 2007.03.29 22:04:00 - [10] Edited by: Fork Boy on 29/03/2007 22:01:02 The man felt good and is telling a happy story of "the one that got away" to all us mission runners. Props to you OP! <*****s glass> and props to the pirates who sound like they were in it for the chase. Edit: c-h-i-n-k-s glass. Had to post that in my defence in case people wonder WTF I'm saying. Hopefully the mods will let that stand! ================================= A fork is a cold, shiny tool To pierce, tear and ingest. Whoever has the fork in hand Controls the meal of their choice.
Tulisin Dragonflame	Posted - 2007.03.30 00:41:00 - [11] Personally, I think the post was an attempt to draw attention to this line. Originally by: Iomar Uisdean Then I saw the Helios smack the can I dropped at the mission warp-in. And I saw local fill up. .........and they saw my vapor trail. Many people hear about "take precautions and you won't get caught" but actual specific hints like "drop a can at the warp-in" are few and can be very helpful.
Drykor Minmatar Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.03.30 01:31:00 - [12] Actually a jaguar is fairly easy to find, if you are using the cookie cutter setup with 2x medium shield extenders anyway. It will blow up your sig alot.
Arialla	Posted - 2007.03.30 01:58:00 - [13] Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame Personally, I think the post was an attempt to draw attention to this line. Originally by: Iomar Uisdean Then I saw the Helios smack the can I dropped at the mission warp-in. And I saw local fill up. .........and they saw my vapor trail. Many people hear about "take precautions and you won't get caught" but actual specific hints like "drop a can at the warp-in" are few and can be very helpful. What does the can do? Mess with cloaking? -- Arialla Originally by: Robocop Scammer: You probably don't think I'm a very nice guy, do ya? Murphy: Buddy, I think you're slime.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.03.30 02:39:00 - [14] Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame Many people hear about "take precautions and you won't get caught" but actual specific hints like "drop a can at the warp-in" are few and can be very helpful. I know it's easy to miss in all the objections about how these hints don't work / take too much time / don't guarantee 100% safety vs. the perfect pirate strike team / aren't worth the trouble, etc., but they are given out fairly regularly in this forum. Originally by: Arialla What does the can do? Mess with cloaking? An object left at the jump-in point breaks the cloak, as does any object within 2000m. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
ElCoCo KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.30 03:04:00 - [15] Why are you using a jag with ECCM mods?
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.03.30 03:46:00 - [16] Presumably because it lowers the effective signal strength for getting probed. Or maybe he is just is very scared of Gurista jamming. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Ishan Shade	Posted - 2007.03.30 08:40:00 - [17] Odds are they were using race specific recon probes. They take 3 minutes to scan with good skills, but are very accurate even if you're in deadspace. the only problem is getting within range with those probes, but having enough scan spots in a system helps allot with that.
Leandro Salazar Bravehearts Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.30 09:39:00 - [18] I am actually curious what kind of probes they were using to find you, seeing how my own experience with recon probes have been decent, yet the whining pirates all seem to use exploration probes. You say you saw them on the scanner, do you remember what probes they were? --------- There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Kestrel There is no 'e' in Caldari
Krogan Ukone Minmatar Kyrgyz-Kazakh	Posted - 2007.03.30 14:05:00 - [19] Originally by: Arialla What does the can do? Mess with cloaking? An object left at the jump-in point breaks the cloak, as does any object within 2000m. Please explain ... what cloak? What advantage does that give?
Iomar Uisdean Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.30 14:58:00 - [20] I wrote the originating post because I thought it might be amusing to share this experience. It doesn't have a real point. I am sorry if I offended anyone. To address a few other comments, in no particular order: I was trying to share a few pointers and yes, a positive experience, with other people who might like to mission now and again in low sec. Maybe I was being a bit too subtle. Yes, the mission had one gate. I pitched a janitor into space at the warp in point from that gate. I always do that in low sec. Takes 5 seconds. It's a good use for janitors, hookers and hobbos. Not Marines, though. I respect Marines. It does two things for me. One, it has a chance to break a cloak if someone warps in. Not sure it works all the time but it did work this time. Two, it gives me an easy point of reference as to where I am in relation to the warp-in point. I tend to move around a lot in missions, it's not a good idea to sit still in a Jaguar. The prober was using recon probes, I was able to see both Snoops and Spooks, towards the end several at a time within a proximity that would lead me to conclude they overlapped enough to make it possible to find me. It's quite likely that the prober had good BM's from which to start scanning. My Jaguar fit is not entirely conventional. I won't share details, mostly because it might just invite a whole host of opinionated, inarticulate twits to flame me as being a clueless gimp or a noob or some such. Suffice to say, it works for me. For running level 3 missions in low sec I aim to keep the sig radius down and the scan strength up. I rely on a combination of speed and an acceptable passive shield tank to complete most level 3 missions witin a reasonable time frame. The Blockade does take a while, though. Yes, ECCM. I have good reasons. Sure, I was pleased. For several reasons. I was pleased that I had a chance to witness first hand a dedicated and skilled pirate using the tools available to them. And weighing that against the tools of a deciated and skilled missioner (if I can make that claim). Having the encounter end in a draw (They found me but I didn't die). Which allows me to think that perhaps things in this regard are not as unbalanced as all that. Finally, I was happy about the conversation we had. Mutually respectful and complimentary. I was genuinely impressed they found me and I said so. In turn they complimented me on being alert and very challenging to to find and on not being just another half awake mission grinder that they would have found and ground to a powder in 5 minutes or less. To contrast I recently had a rather different wanna be pirate cuss me out in local and accuse me of exploiting because I was using a ship that he'd never be able to find using recon probes and wouldn't be able to get close enough to by using exploration probes. That was after I informed him that the deadspace signature in the system that day was Gravimetric rather then Ladar. (Yes, I knew he was looking for me and didn't give two ***s about the hidden roids.)
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.03.30 16:22:00 - [21] Originally by: Krogan Ukone Originally by: Arialla What does the can do? Mess with cloaking? An object left at the jump-in point breaks the cloak, as does any object within 2000m. Please explain ... what cloak? What advantage does that give? Much of the time, a gang hunting a mission runner in a gated deadspace will send at least one cloaked ship through the gate to (at minimum) determine more about the intended victim and the mission, and decide if, when, and how to strike. If there is an object within 2k of the point that ship jumps in on, it uncloaks. For the mission runner, seeing a player Cheetah suddenly appear on their overview is a pretty good indication that the mission gate has been busted. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Zabrina	Posted - 2007.04.01 09:07:00 - [22] Drones and wrecks give you away. They dont' find your ship, they find your drones and wrecks
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.01 22:01:00 - [23] Originally by: Zabrina Drones and wrecks give you away. They dont' find your ship, they find your drones and wrecks What she says. Forget about ECCM etc. if you didn't use any drones you are not safe either. It's the wrecks that made them find you. And they even don't have to be precise, once they found something, they warp to it and where they usually would have landed 200km off, they land right on your warp-in gate/beacon, caus its deadspace.
Fuhshizzle	Posted - 2007.04.01 22:05:00 - [24] ive heard you can scan out drones, but i dont think you can scan out wrecks.
Pytria Le'Danness Placid Reborn The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2007.04.02 11:35:00 - [25] Edited by: Pytria Le''Danness on 02/04/2007 11:34:32 I think there is a scanner setting for wrecks, so you can probe for them. I cannot say for sure though. My concern with this story is that I fear that had you been running lvl 4 missions in a battleship, you wouldn't have gotten away. It takes a bit for a BS to go into warp even if it is aligned and moving at speed, and the scramble ranges on serious recon cruisers are enough to cover a serious chunk of the mission. For instance, lvl 4 "Unauthorised military presence" (no special reason for picking this mission, it was just the last I did) has three groups of NPCs at around 70km away. They aggro you when you approach to 50km. An Arazu with Recon-IV has a 36km scramble range on vanilla 20km scramblers, I don't even want to think about faction and officer ones. So you need to move away 35+km from the warp-in point, while avoiding to trigger mass aggro in a battleship going 150m/s tops. The maneuvering alone will take a long time, and I once was probed out within 15 minutes in a deadspace (no drones and wrecks around, the prober found my Dominix). I got away because I was 70km off the entry point and the attacker could not MWD (he came in his cruiser not the probing ship, possibly because he did not want to give away his scanning alt). I also think the can trick only works on "gated" deadspace missions - those without gate suffer from a lot of scatter and you'd have to be lucky to decloak the ship. It never hurts to try though. One further tip: for long missions, consider dropping small secure cans. They do not pop after an hour. I wish Zrakor would make good on his promise to offer mission runners more tools to avoid being ganked in missions. Right now vigilance and distance is the only thing that will help you there. If you are offered a mission that forces you to stay near the entry (due to aggro or instant webbing) you'd best decline it. Sadly this has severely limited my choices of missions to the point that I reconsider running missions in low sec. Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn"
Lrrp Minmatar Gallente Mercantile Exchange	Posted - 2007.04.02 16:46:00 - [26] Edited by: Lrrp on 02/04/2007 16:43:45 Originally by: Zabrina Drones and wrecks give you away. They dont' find your ship, they find your drones and wrecks Ummm....no. I was running a mission that had three stages. I completed first stages when I saw the local Turbie gank squad in system. So I docked. They left system and then I went out and looted/salvaged all wrecks before doing the 3rd pocket. As I went out in my Raven to complete 3rd pocket, I saw the same group re-enter system. So I thought I'd see if they could find me and stopped my ship at gate going into 3rd pocket. They did. Here's a interesting bit of info. While sitting there in complete silence, My first clue of impending gank was I could hear the typical gate activation sound. Then as I looked back towards previous gate the recon ship showed up momentarily both in space and in my overview before he cloaked. So I activated the gate I was at, jumped to next pocket and then warped to station. So no drones out and no wrecks. Actually hearing them warp in I found interesting. Be nice if there was a way to enhance this sound and diminish all other noise. So as I see it, mission runners have some misconceptions as to being ganked in dead space missions and I trust both OP'er and mine show you the fallicy. Always be aware of local and who is in it. If you see probes out it is time to get back to station.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.04.02 17:25:00 - [27] Originally by: Pytria Le'Danness My concern with this story is that I fear that had you been running lvl 4 missions in a battleship, you wouldn't have gotten away. There's no doubt that people are much less able to easily bug out of L4s in Battleships, but the same general ideas improve your chances of survival. I don't run L4s, but my strategy would be to place an even greater emphasis on the tricks that don't rely so much on the attributes of your ship. As always, the single biggest thing you can do is choose the right place to run missions. In a way, the cool thing about running L3s in an AF is it just gives you the power to be less careful about things like that. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE

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