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NaiMor
Federated Industry and Trade Incorporated
1
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Posted - 2016.11.15 17:32:14 -
[1] - Quote
I just looked at my training and it is still the same as it was before.
It is not any faster.
It isn't faster BUT i guess that the ALPHA will be 2X slower. So training with an alpha will take about 3 month instead
of 6 weeks - normal time - with Omega.
It would have been nice if CCP had given the subscription payers a bit of a boost, but they havent.
MOST ANNOYED. |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
3105
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 17:34:27 -
[2] - Quote
Not sure why you had that expectations. It was always made clear they train slower and omega stays the same
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Amanda Chelian
79
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 17:35:49 -
[3] - Quote
Yup, it's the alphas that are running at half training speed. But "train skills at normal speed!" doesn't make for good marketing to get the Omega sub sold, hence the play with words. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
45617
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 17:36:32 -
[4] - Quote
You're annoyed because you didn't get more than what you had yesterday, for no reason at all?
You're a miner aren't you?
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|
Mister Ripley
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
244
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 17:37:18 -
[5] - Quote
Right now I typing twice as fast as I would if I would type with half speed! weeeeee!!11211! |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2599
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 17:40:42 -
[6] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:You're annoyed because you didn't get more than what you had yesterday, for no reason at all?
You're a miner aren't you?
I woke up this morning and my bank account didn't magically have double the money it had yesterday.
Will the indignities never cease?!?
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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NaiMor
Federated Industry and Trade Incorporated
2
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 17:57:15 -
[7] - Quote
I read through the specs of what a new upgrade will do. But don't read in details.
I like the surprise of what it could have been and what it actually is.
But it is what it is.
And I do some mining. LOL |
ISD Thalack
ISD MERCURY
13
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 18:00:55 -
[8] - Quote
The phrasing might be a bit confusing, but it's as follows:
Alpha accounts train at half the speed of pre-Ascension skill training
Omega accounts train at double the speed of Alpha accounts
As such, Omega accounts train the exact same speed post-Ascension as pre-Ascension... Alpha accounts, will train at half speed.
Hope this clears things up!
ISD Thalack Dalhar
Captain - ISD Mercury
Interstellar Services Department
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000Hunter000
Missiles 'R' Us
89
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 18:17:04 -
[9] - Quote
It's called marketing.
Stating u will train at half te speed as alpha, isn't very appealing at all 
Anyways, the part where they were trying to get older players to return is pointless... i activated an alt, and it can't train anything, cuz i allready have all the basic skills at full. and flying in cruiser sized and smaller? don't be silly, those are for noobs.
So, either i sub my alt or mothball him again, cus atm he's as usefull as a noob unless i wan't to use him as a suicide alt.
Anyways, this makes the half speed/full speed training thing mute, cuz i can't train anything anways 
Yes yes, i know, i get to 'play' for 'free', but what point is there, if he's not even usefull as an alt?
*puts on flameretardant suit* |
Frostys Virpio
Yet another corpdot.
2971
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 18:32:38 -
[10] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:You're annoyed because you didn't get more than what you had yesterday, for no reason at all?
You're a miner aren't you? I woke up this morning and my bank account didn't magically have double the money it had yesterday. Will the indignities never cease?!?
This happened to me once tho. Got a paycheck of exactly my previous balance. Was funny in it's own way. |
Keno Skir
929
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 18:34:22 -
[11] - Quote
000Hunter000 wrote:flying in cruiser sized and smaller? don't be silly, those are for noobs.
Should be perfect for you then 
Gùï> 30 Day Buddy Trial + ISK Bonus & Starting Assistance <Gùï
Feel free to contact me regarding my posts, or my 30 Day EvE Buddy Trials \o/
|
000Hunter000
Missiles 'R' Us
89
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 19:09:31 -
[12] - Quote
Apparently i seem to have missed the part in the patchnotes which states u can't login an Omega and an Alpha at the same time, so it's all pointless anyways
So i paid for two accounts for years and years, now i want to activate my 2nd acount once more, but EVE won't let me?
LMFAO!!! This entire F2P thing is completely useless. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2602
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 19:16:39 -
[13] - Quote
000Hunter000 wrote:Apparently i seem to have missed the part in the patchnotes which states u can't login an Omega and an Alpha at the same time, so it's all pointless anyways So i paid for two accounts for years and years, now i want to activate my 2nd acount once more, but EVE won't let me? LMFAO!!! This entire F2P thing is completely useless.
What, you thought you would be able to deploy your own personal F2P alt army? 
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
|
000Hunter000
Missiles 'R' Us
89
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 19:28:40 -
[14] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:What, you thought you would be able to deploy your own personal F2P alt army?
Offcourse not, a cap on the number of accounts running would make sense, but i just didn't realize they would cap it at 1.
*shrugs*
LOL, knowing eve, your prolly right! *imagines some people running several pc's running a dozen Alpha Alts* |
Orlacc
950
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 19:40:02 -
[15] - Quote
NaiMor wrote: But don't read in details.
"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
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CCP Falcon
13309
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 19:58:03 -
[16] - Quote
Training at two times the speed of an Alpha, which means that an Alpha trains at half the speed of an Omega.
CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
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March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron
The-Culture
1941
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 19:58:50 -
[17] - Quote
Amanda Chelian wrote:Yup, it's the alphas that are running at half training speed. But "train skills at normal speed!" doesn't make for good marketing to get the Omega sub sold, hence the play with words.
it would be cool if many players bug report this
It says '2x' but my current speed is the same. Something is wrong....
Or make support team answering questions like this.
On the other hand CCP is already bad at fixing bugs and supporting customers 
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Gaius Clabbacus
Basket of Deplorables
33
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 19:59:37 -
[18] - Quote
New Coke, twice as good as old Coke. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
19073
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 20:07:13 -
[19] - Quote
Gaius Clabbacus wrote:New Coke, twice as good as old Coke.
No, new coke, half as good as old coke...but free
We're Back in Business ,
have your very own Meeny Faced Bastards on call today
=]|[=
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Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1247
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 21:05:32 -
[20] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Training at two times the speed of an Alpha, which means that an Alpha trains at half the speed of an Omega.
Thanks for the grin CCP!
Remove standings and insurance.
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Ruddger
Hmmzor.
Muffins of Mayhem
14
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 21:57:06 -
[21] - Quote
Yeah this is just a marketing scam. scummy move in my opinion. |
ImmortalWarHero 514NERC0
NECROM0NGERS
The Red Skull
2
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 22:03:27 -
[22] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:You're annoyed because you didn't get more than what you had yesterday, for no reason at all?
You're a miner aren't you? I woke up this morning and my bank account didn't magically have double the money it had yesterday. Will the indignities never cease?!?
.... ive had that happen dont spend it because then u go negative money in what u spent when it dissapears... but i guess u got to keep what you bough sell it for more if u can trust u wont mess up account lol |
Hello Meow Kitty
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 23:26:10 -
[23] - Quote
Amanda Chelian wrote:Yup, it's the alphas that are running at half training speed. But "train skills at normal speed!" doesn't make for good marketing to get the Omega sub sold, hence the play with words.
MEOW ON CCP. |
Kane Blacktyde
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
31
|
Posted - 2016.11.16 05:47:08 -
[24] - Quote
The idea is that Alpha is the new baseline. Everything in the game is now from the point of view that most players started as Alphas and then later became Omegas. So for them the 2X training speed is true.
You see many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.
They Obi-wan'ed us. |
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron
The-Culture
1942
|
Posted - 2016.11.16 06:40:25 -
[25] - Quote
Ruddger wrote:Yeah this is just a marketing scam. scummy move in my opinion.
Well... Western people got so used to it so they even see it as nice thing it seems
I'm pretty sure many of them buy things with 'big discounts' even is at the end price appears higher than 'without discount'. Marketing, eh.... 
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Daniel Jackson
Shore Leave Inc.
192
|
Posted - 2016.11.16 06:49:20 -
[26] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Ruddger wrote:Yeah this is just a marketing scam. scummy move in my opinion. Well... Western people got so used to it so they even see it as nice thing it seems I'm pretty sure many of them buy things with 'big discounts' even is at the end price appears higher than 'without discount'. Marketing, eh....
like jus recentely at the liqour store i work at i wwas told to price all 12 of the wine bottles we got a case of for $49.99 and then told to put a sale sticker on it saying its $19.99 under the first sticker right after i already priced them all
I Vote YES! for Downloadable HI-RES Textures!!!!
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Luscius Uta
241
|
Posted - 2016.11.16 08:46:39 -
[27] - Quote
It reminds me of what some stores often do, at least where I live. They raise the price of an item (for no reason usually) and when they drop the price back to the initial value, they put a huge "discount" sign on it.
Workarounds are not bugfixes.
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Presidente Gallente
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
200
|
Posted - 2016.11.16 10:43:22 -
[28] - Quote
Ruddger wrote:Yeah this is just a marketing scam. scummy move in my opinion.
NO! The ones who start EVE the first time with Alpha clones will be told that switching to Omega will speed up their skilling time two times. That's the marketing message to the NEW players. So what kind of markeing scam are you talking about? You are playing EVE on Omega level and you are pissed now because you did not get it and you expected faster skilling? My skills run as usual. Not faster. Not slower.
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45thtiger 0109
Requiem Eternal
172
|
Posted - 2016.11.16 11:44:38 -
[29] - Quote
ISD Thalack wrote:The phrasing might be a bit confusing, but it's as follows:
Alpha accounts train at half the speed of pre-Ascension skill training
Omega accounts train at double the speed of Alpha accounts
As such, Omega accounts train the exact same speed post-Ascension as pre-Ascension... Alpha accounts, will train at half speed.
Hope this clears things up!
Unless you have a +5 clone in your head that will train even faster lol
**You Have to take the good with the bad
and the bad with the good.
Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**
|
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron
The-Culture
1942
|
Posted - 2016.11.16 19:38:05 -
[30] - Quote
Presidente Gallente wrote:My skills run as usual. Not faster. Not slower. Nothing has changed.
... except that you have sign 'training at 2x speed' now....
Imagine that your boss will say you: we are increasing your salary. And they they say (after you get your paycheck with 'nothing changed'): we just recruited some guy who will have lower salary than you. So your salary is now bigger! 
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Arronicus
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Badfellas Inc.
1564
|
Posted - 2016.11.16 20:16:44 -
[31] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Amanda Chelian wrote:Yup, it's the alphas that are running at half training speed. But "train skills at normal speed!" doesn't make for good marketing to get the Omega sub sold, hence the play with words. it would be cool if many players bug report this It says '2x' but my current speed is the same. Something is wrong.... Or make support team answering questions like this. On the other hand CCP is already bad at fixing bugs and supporting customers
No, it would not be cool if anyone reported this. It's not a bug, and you'd be doing nothing but wasting peoples time that could be better spent handling real bugs. Bug reporting something because you don't like it is stupid |
Caim Naberius
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
41
|
Posted - 2016.11.16 20:40:50 -
[32] - Quote
Im sold, i love drinking Diet Double Dew while training twice as fast. |
Bibosikus
Air
207
|
Posted - 2016.11.16 22:24:57 -
[33] - Quote
let me explain this for you. CCP has a set of marketing peons that were like hmmm if we call this never ending trial playing for free it sounds better. Just like saying if we call alphas training standard and omegas 2x it sounds better to the customer than alphas train at half speed. It's basic marketing and it's ****** and lacks honor. but hey hoe what ever keeps the $ rolling in.
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
|
Ravael
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2016.11.16 22:34:32 -
[34] - Quote
So, 2x is actually 2x 1/2. |
Matthias Ancaladron
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2016.11.17 01:32:58 -
[35] - Quote
They should have left the normal trial account training speed in tact. Trial accounts trained faster and had more options |
dartata
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.11.17 09:43:31 -
[36] - Quote
000Hunter000 wrote:Apparently i seem to have missed the part in the patchnotes which states u can't login an Omega and an Alpha at the same time, so it's all pointless anyways So i paid for two accounts for years and years, now i want to activate my 2nd acount once more, but EVE won't let me? LMFAO!!! This entire F2P thing is completely useless.
Not exactly true.. you can load omega and alpha on same iP just not same pc. My son logged in his old account while I was 2 omega and got in fine |
Zelman Axe
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
29
|
Posted - 2016.11.17 10:00:48 -
[37] - Quote
The training queue view sucks to be honest why did you change something that didnt need fixing is there anyway to change it back to something more useable |
Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
138
|
Posted - 2016.11.17 10:06:57 -
[38] - Quote
Saying that it's twice an alpha is wrong, though.
Because the skillpoint formula is based off subscribed players and has something to do with primary and secondary attribute.
So using a formula that's based for omegas you should say Alpha is 0.5(Formula Omega) and not Omega = 2(formula ALpha) because the formula Alpha is based off the Omega one (circular logic?)
So unless CCP retcons the formula saying Omegas train at 2x alpha speed and not Alpha is 0.5 Omega is just deceptive marketing. |
Don Pera Saissore
119
|
Posted - 2016.11.17 11:12:08 -
[39] - Quote
You mean bullshit? |
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy
Caldari State
127
|
Posted - 2016.11.17 15:14:07 -
[40] - Quote
It's new CCP marketing:
"Your wine has 2x alchool now! Enjoy!"
"But it's 5 years I drink wine when having lunch....and it seems the same wine I always drink"
"Yes, it is. But Alphas drink beer only!"
.... |
Brigadine Ferathine
The Valiant Vanguard
The Volition Cult
116
|
Posted - 2016.11.17 16:01:00 -
[41] - Quote
Amanda Chelian wrote:Yup, it's the alphas that are running at half training speed. But "train skills at normal speed!" doesn't make for good marketing to get the Omega sub sold, hence the play with words.
Its false advertising is what it is. |
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1059
|
Posted - 2016.11.17 16:08:36 -
[42] - Quote
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:Amanda Chelian wrote:Yup, it's the alphas that are running at half training speed. But "train skills at normal speed!" doesn't make for good marketing to get the Omega sub sold, hence the play with words. Its false advertising is what it is.
It's not. You get to train twice as fast if you pay. Since you have paid before, nothing changes for you, really, but the statement is still true. |
Frostys Virpio
Yet another corpdot.
2974
|
Posted - 2016.11.17 16:13:49 -
[43] - Quote
All those vets thinking a publicity statement target them when it's clearly targeted at the new players who start as alphas...
Common guys, you are all better than that no? |
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1059
|
Posted - 2016.11.17 16:48:13 -
[44] - Quote
Right. No need to advertise the game to paying customers. It's those who have not subscribed yet the marketing is aimed at. |
Brigadine Ferathine
The Valiant Vanguard
The Volition Cult
116
|
Posted - 2016.11.17 16:52:51 -
[45] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Brigadine Ferathine wrote:Amanda Chelian wrote:Yup, it's the alphas that are running at half training speed. But "train skills at normal speed!" doesn't make for good marketing to get the Omega sub sold, hence the play with words. Its false advertising is what it is. It's not. You get to train twice as fast if you pay. Since you have paid before, nothing changes for you, really, but the statement is still true.
The wording makes it sound like 2x is what I am paying for. I'm training at 100% not 200% as advertised. |
Lifelongnoob's Brother
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.11.17 20:13:25 -
[46] - Quote
i'd have liked it if aplha could train only 1 toon per account at normal speed but omega can 2 toons per account at normal speed |
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1061
|
Posted - 2016.11.17 20:21:38 -
[47] - Quote
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:The wording makes it sound like 2x is what I am paying for. I'm training at 100% not 200% as advertised.
Where did they ever define what "100% training speed" is? Without that, it's just a matter of perspective. If you just start the game as an alpha, you train at a certain speed. Once you decide to pay, you get double that. So, Depending on how you look at it, you either train at normal speed, and alphas get half, or alphas train at normal speed, and you get double. Neither one is wrong, since CCP does not guarantee any amount of SP/h anywhere. The only thing they promise is that you get twice the speed as Omega. Could also mean "Twice the speed of a full trash can climbing a mountain" and still wouldn't be a lie. |
Frostys Virpio
Yet another corpdot.
2975
|
Posted - 2016.11.17 21:41:22 -
[48] - Quote
Lifelongnoob's Brother wrote:i'd have liked it if aplha could train only 1 toon per account at normal speed but omega can 2 toons per account at normal speed
I would of liked to be gifted a Lamborghini but alas, it didn't happen. |
Hark'ma
Arbiters of the Void
Circle-Of-Two
19
|
Posted - 2016.11.18 00:08:24 -
[49] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Not sure why you had that expectations. It was always made clear they train slower and omega stays the same
This was no doubt a poor choice of words and is very shady but not dishonest.
Omega train speed was the standard for over a decade. Skill train wording should be based on what has existed for a long time instead of trying to change the narrative.
No doubt it is clear about the training time in the wording. This I am not arguing. But it should say ALPHAS train at HALF speed.
it's just disrespectful to long time paying customers. |
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1064
|
Posted - 2016.11.18 00:45:13 -
[50] - Quote
Hark'ma wrote:No doubt it is clear about the training time in the wording. This I am not arguing. But it should say ALPHAS train at HALF speed.
It's probably better to spin it in a way that paying customers get a bonus, not that freeloaders get gimped, even though that's exactly what it is from our point of view. We know the game a bit, or at least we should. Most of us are smart enough not to expect to just get double training speed for no reason. (some do, though. welp)
Keep in mind, that going free to play is quite a big step. It just isn't the same system anymore that it used to be for a decade, and for those who never played eve before - and those are the people targeted by this - it would look really weird if they got slapped with "Yo, you can play for free, but then we will artificially nerf your game" right from the get-go.
Paying for the game has been the norm for the longest time, but it isn't anymore. Now, paying is a good and welcome, but optional thing, that you get something extra for. And that's what they are trying to convey. Yes it's a bit disrespectful towards the old players to tell them they are training at 2x speed now, even though they didn't get any boost at all. But now that they are marketing Eve as F2P, it would be even more disrespectful to new players that aren't paying (yet) if they basically told them that they merely tolerate them, but still expect them to pay to actually play the full game. |
Brigadine Ferathine
The Valiant Vanguard
The Volition Cult
118
|
Posted - 2016.11.21 19:15:10 -
[51] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Brigadine Ferathine wrote:Amanda Chelian wrote:Yup, it's the alphas that are running at half training speed. But "train skills at normal speed!" doesn't make for good marketing to get the Omega sub sold, hence the play with words. Its false advertising is what it is. It's not. You get to train twice as fast if you pay. Since you have paid before, nothing changes for you, really, but the statement is still true.
Twice as fast if I pay? Why am I not twice as fast as when I was paying on November 13? |
Brigadine Ferathine
The Valiant Vanguard
The Volition Cult
118
|
Posted - 2016.11.21 19:16:19 -
[52] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Brigadine Ferathine wrote:The wording makes it sound like 2x is what I am paying for. I'm training at 100% not 200% as advertised. Where did they ever define what "100% training speed" is? Without that, it's just a matter of perspective. If you just start the game as an alpha, you train at a certain speed. Once you decide to pay, you get double that. So, Depending on how you look at it, you either train at normal speed, and alphas get half, or alphas train at normal speed, and you get double. Neither one is wrong, since CCP does not guarantee any amount of SP/h anywhere. The only thing they promise is that you get twice the speed as Omega. Could also mean "Twice the speed of a full trash can climbing a mountain" and still wouldn't be a lie.
Pre F2P defined that as there was 2 values. nothing and 100% speed. So yes they defined it. I think CCP will end up in court over this one. |
Frostys Virpio
Yet another corpdot.
2977
|
Posted - 2016.11.21 20:57:41 -
[53] - Quote
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:Neuntausend wrote:Brigadine Ferathine wrote:Amanda Chelian wrote:Yup, it's the alphas that are running at half training speed. But "train skills at normal speed!" doesn't make for good marketing to get the Omega sub sold, hence the play with words. Its false advertising is what it is. It's not. You get to train twice as fast if you pay. Since you have paid before, nothing changes for you, really, but the statement is still true. Twice as fast if I pay? Why am I not twice as fast as when I was paying on November 13?
Because you are paying for the same service as you used to before so you get the same service. An alpha account on the other hand will see it's training speed double if they decide to subscribe. |
Pendra Tahyan
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
9
|
Posted - 2016.11.21 21:31:59 -
[54] - Quote
This discussion is kind of stupid. It's pretty obvious that the 2x training speed is from a Alpha's point of view since the marketing is targeted at them.
How tasty would it sound if CCP told the Alphas that: You get to play for free but we gimp you severly by limiting your training. It's not shady or dishonest but simple marketing. |
Neuntausend
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
1079
|
Posted - 2016.11.21 21:54:37 -
[55] - Quote
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:Twice as fast if I pay? Why am I not twice as fast as when I was paying on November 13?
I assume if you were training anything on November 13th you did pay before November 15th, did you not? So nothing changed for you. You already trained twice as fast as Alphas do now, so it still holds true. If you really thought you'd be getting twice the training speed you had before for no reason beyond a sudden fit of entitlement, I'm sorry to say you are a bit of an idiot. But I trust you don't and just brought this up for the sake of argument.
If you desparately want to complain about anything, complain that you trained "infinetly faster" than somebody who wouldn't pay for their account before Ascension (because they couldn't train at all, or play the game for that matter), and now you only train twice as fast. But that would be complaining about the whole f2p move, which would be fair, I suppose, but I don't really think will change anything. F2P is here to stay, and they have to train at *some* speed. |
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
211
|
Posted - 2016.11.21 22:32:16 -
[56] - Quote
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:Amanda Chelian wrote:Yup, it's the alphas that are running at half training speed. But "train skills at normal speed!" doesn't make for good marketing to get the Omega sub sold, hence the play with words. Its false advertising is what it is.
I agree. |
Neuntausend
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
1079
|
Posted - 2016.11.21 22:35:27 -
[57] - Quote
It would be, if it wasn't correct.
|
Bjorn Tyrson
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2016.11.21 23:14:34 -
[58] - Quote
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:Neuntausend wrote:Brigadine Ferathine wrote:Amanda Chelian wrote:Yup, it's the alphas that are running at half training speed. But "train skills at normal speed!" doesn't make for good marketing to get the Omega sub sold, hence the play with words. Its false advertising is what it is. It's not. You get to train twice as fast if you pay. Since you have paid before, nothing changes for you, really, but the statement is still true. Twice as fast if I pay? Why am I not twice as fast as when I was paying on November 13?
Because you are still paying the same amount. on november 13th you where still training at twice the speed as an alpha would have been if they could have been around at the time. |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7988
|
Posted - 2016.11.21 23:21:52 -
[59] - Quote
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:Neuntausend wrote:Brigadine Ferathine wrote:Amanda Chelian wrote:Yup, it's the alphas that are running at half training speed. But "train skills at normal speed!" doesn't make for good marketing to get the Omega sub sold, hence the play with words. Its false advertising is what it is. It's not. You get to train twice as fast if you pay. Since you have paid before, nothing changes for you, really, but the statement is still true. The wording makes it sound like 2x is what I am paying for. I'm training at 100% not 200% as advertised.
If you want to make a false advertising case, take it to court, and watch them laugh you out of it.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Brigadine Ferathine
The Valiant Vanguard
The Volition Cult
118
|
Posted - 2016.11.22 00:31:50 -
[60] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Brigadine Ferathine wrote:Twice as fast if I pay? Why am I not twice as fast as when I was paying on November 13? I assume if you were training anything on November 13th you did pay before November 15th, did you not? So nothing changed for you. You already trained twice as fast as Alphas do now, so it still holds true. If you really thought you'd be getting twice the training speed you had before for no reason beyond a sudden fit of entitlement, I'm sorry to say you are a bit of an idiot. But I trust you don't and just brought this up for the sake of argument. If you desparately want to complain about anything, complain that you trained "infinetly faster" than somebody who wouldn't pay for their account before Ascension (because they couldn't train at all, or play the game for that matter), and now you only train twice as fast. But that would be complaining about the whole f2p move, which would be fair, I suppose, but I don't really think will change anything. F2P is here to stay, and they have to train at *some* speed.
The fact that you feel like you need to call me names tells me I am right and you are just trolling. Have you ever multiplied 2 by 0? 'Twice' as fast as before if you didn't pay is a misnomer in of itself. |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7990
|
Posted - 2016.11.22 00:43:12 -
[61] - Quote
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:Neuntausend wrote:Brigadine Ferathine wrote:Twice as fast if I pay? Why am I not twice as fast as when I was paying on November 13? I assume if you were training anything on November 13th you did pay before November 15th, did you not? So nothing changed for you. You already trained twice as fast as Alphas do now, so it still holds true. If you really thought you'd be getting twice the training speed you had before for no reason beyond a sudden fit of entitlement, I'm sorry to say you are a bit of an idiot. But I trust you don't and just brought this up for the sake of argument. If you desparately want to complain about anything, complain that you trained "infinetly faster" than somebody who wouldn't pay for their account before Ascension (because they couldn't train at all, or play the game for that matter), and now you only train twice as fast. But that would be complaining about the whole f2p move, which would be fair, I suppose, but I don't really think will change anything. F2P is here to stay, and they have to train at *some* speed. The fact that you feel like you need to call me names tells me I am right and you are just trolling.
No it doesn't. Omega's train twice as fast as Alphas, and that's all there is to it. That's all there needs to be to it. Pretty simple, really. So simple, that I don't even think you're an idiot for not getting it. I think you're not getting it on purpose, just so you can throw a tantrum about something. That doesn't make you an idiot, it makes you an attention-seeking brat who probably needs a new pacifier.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
4597
|
Posted - 2016.11.22 01:59:29 -
[62] - Quote
We're splitting hairs over marketing which is clearly aimed at new bloods? Really? I liked GD better when there were threadnaughts on just 'Grr Goons' or CCP hiring policies.
**Sugar Von MurdererTits-á**: Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
|
Neuntausend
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
1080
|
Posted - 2016.11.22 02:25:12 -
[63] - Quote
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:The fact that you feel like you need to call me names tells me I am right and you are just trolling. Have you ever multiplied 2 by 0? 'Twice' as fast as before if you didn't pay is a misnomer in of itself.
Are my sentences too long for you?
Otherwise you would have caught on to the fact that I said you used to train "twice as fast as Alphas do now". This will only have the proper meaning with all words taken into account, so it would be prudent to read and try to understand them all. They are not complicated words, and I am sure you can do it. You'd also have noticed that I would only take you for an idiot if you honestly expected to get double the training speed you got before for literally no reason at all instead of just making an argument. If you honestly expect that, though, I stand by what I said. Not because I feel the need to call you anything, but because I think it's true. |
Gee Shunziji
Shunz.Inc
8
|
Posted - 2016.11.22 02:37:17 -
[64] - Quote
A bunch of whiners trolling a bunch of haters.
This topic is wonderfully pointless.
'' Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, Fuck you .. ''
-Period
|
Neuntausend
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
1080
|
Posted - 2016.11.22 02:46:12 -
[65] - Quote
Gee Shunziji wrote:A bunch of whiners trolling a bunch of haters.
This topic is wonderfully pointless.
Oh, but I disagree! They are wrong on the internet, and need to be shown the error of their ways. |
Conrad Makbure
Trident Expedition
112
|
Posted - 2016.11.22 03:14:28 -
[66] - Quote
Amanda Chelian wrote:Yup, it's the alphas that are running at half training speed. But "train skills at normal speed!" doesn't make for good marketing to get the Omega sub sold, hence the play with words.
Yeah, but saying Alpha is the new normal speed overnight is dumb. It would have been better to just not put a "2x" on the Omega skill window and rather have something that says "training at half speed, subscribe now for full training speed" for Alpha. When Alpha clones subscribe, they will see the difference in days reduced on their training queues. That's all you need, no need to put 2x on the subscriber queue window. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
45874
|
Posted - 2016.11.22 03:22:07 -
[67] - Quote
Conrad Makbure wrote:It would have been better to just not put a "2x" on the Omega skill window...
Better for who?
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
2009
|
Posted - 2016.11.22 03:26:06 -
[68] - Quote
Conrad Makbure wrote:Amanda Chelian wrote:Yup, it's the alphas that are running at half training speed. But "train skills at normal speed!" doesn't make for good marketing to get the Omega sub sold, hence the play with words. Yeah, but saying Alpha is the new normal speed overnight is dumb. It would have been better to just not put a "2x" on the Omega skill window and rather have something that says "training at half speed, subscribe now for full training speed" for Alpha. When Alpha clones subscribe, they will see the difference in days reduced on their training queues. That's all you need, no need to put 2x on the subscriber queue window. that makes sense if you ignore who you're marketing to on a few levels. 1) It marks the new alpha accounts that you're doing your best to welcome as substandard with "half speed training" 2) It makes what we consider normal training a players prior to alphas seem more special than just "normal" 3) And since this is all marketed at showing alphas what they have to gain by paying as opposed to showing existing paying customers what they already have when it should be pretty obvious there is really no gain in doing it that way.
Well, no gain except maybe this thread not existing.
|
Conrad Makbure
Trident Expedition
112
|
Posted - 2016.11.22 03:26:16 -
[69] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Conrad Makbure wrote:It would have been better to just not put a "2x" on the Omega skill window... Better for who?
Everyone. Omegas are training at normal speed. |
Conrad Makbure
Trident Expedition
112
|
Posted - 2016.11.22 03:31:35 -
[70] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Conrad Makbure wrote:Amanda Chelian wrote:Yup, it's the alphas that are running at half training speed. But "train skills at normal speed!" doesn't make for good marketing to get the Omega sub sold, hence the play with words. Yeah, but saying Alpha is the new normal speed overnight is dumb. It would have been better to just not put a "2x" on the Omega skill window and rather have something that says "training at half speed, subscribe now for full training speed" for Alpha. When Alpha clones subscribe, they will see the difference in days reduced on their training queues. That's all you need, no need to put 2x on the subscriber queue window. That makes sense if you ignore who you're marketing to on a few levels. 1) It marks the new alpha accounts that you're doing your best to welcome as substandard with "half speed training" 2) It makes what we consider normal training a players prior to alphas seem more special than just "normal" 3) And since this is all marketed at showing alphas what they have to gain by paying as opposed to showing existing paying customers what they already have when it should be pretty obvious there is really no gain in doing it that way. Well, no gain except maybe this thread not existing.
This is one of the dumbest marketing angles. "We're going to say that normal speed is now 2x speed and half training speed is now the new normal speed." That just sounds stupid and that's exactly what this change is, I don't care who it's marketed to. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
2009
|
Posted - 2016.11.22 03:35:01 -
[71] - Quote
Conrad Makbure wrote:This is one of the dumbest marketing angles. "We're going to say that normal speed is now 2x speed and half training speed is now the new normal speed." That just sounds stupid and that's exactly what this change is, I don't care who it's marketed to. I'm going to guess you don't have a job in marketing as you think it's "dumb" to appeal to your potential customers and try to convince them to give you money by talking up your product.
|
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7992
|
Posted - 2016.11.22 04:01:41 -
[72] - Quote
Jake Warbird wrote:We're splitting hairs over marketing which is clearly aimed at new bloods? Really? I liked GD better when there were threadnaughts on just 'Grr Goons' or CCP hiring policies.
I miss the "EVE is dying" posts. Wanna start a new one?
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Haulin Aussie
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
45
|
Posted - 2016.11.22 05:06:09 -
[73] - Quote
Would have been far better to just have a "Training at half speed" on alpha accounts. Omega players don't need lip service on their accounts, which for the majority of us, makes no sense.
|
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7992
|
Posted - 2016.11.22 05:34:35 -
[74] - Quote
Haulin Aussie wrote:Would have been far better to just have a "Training at half speed" on alpha accounts. Omega players don't need lip service on their accounts, which for the majority of us, makes no sense.
It made enough sense for you to figure out it means alphas train at half the speed omegas do. Quit your whining, it's so un-aussie.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Brigadine Ferathine
The Valiant Vanguard
The Volition Cult
118
|
Posted - 2016.11.22 06:57:32 -
[75] - Quote
Jake Warbird wrote:We're splitting hairs over marketing which is clearly aimed at new bloods? Really? I liked GD better when there were threadnaughts on just 'Grr Goons' or CCP hiring policies.
If its aimed at new bloods that why was it crammed down my throat upon logging in? If it didn't apply to me why did CCP force message me about it? Never mind the fact I have never been an alpha. |
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
525
|
Posted - 2016.11.22 11:09:29 -
[76] - Quote
000Hunter000 wrote:Apparently i seem to have missed the part in the patchnotes which states u can't login an Omega and an Alpha at the same time, so it's all pointless anyways So i paid for two accounts for years and years, now i want to activate my 2nd acount once more, but EVE won't let me? LMFAO!!! This entire F2P thing is completely useless.
what gives you the idea that it's for you (or us)?!
it's to attract newbros...
Just Add Water
|
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
4599
|
Posted - 2016.11.22 13:16:15 -
[77] - Quote
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:Jake Warbird wrote:We're splitting hairs over marketing which is clearly aimed at new bloods? Really? I liked GD better when there were threadnaughts on just 'Grr Goons' or CCP hiring policies. If its aimed at new bloods that why was it crammed down my throat upon logging in? If it didn't apply to me why did CCP force message me about it? Never mind the fact I have never been an alpha.
"...force message"
You also think that people "force" miners into tanking their 100% yield mining barges, correct?
e: Never seen an alpha before? Well, it doesn't mean they aren't there.
**Sugar Von MurdererTits-á**: Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
|
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron
The-Culture
1947
|
Posted - 2016.11.22 13:27:26 -
[78] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Conrad Makbure wrote:This is one of the dumbest marketing angles. "We're going to say that normal speed is now 2x speed and half training speed is now the new normal speed." That just sounds stupid and that's exactly what this change is, I don't care who it's marketed to. I'm going to guess you don't have a job in marketing as you think it's "dumb" to appeal to your potential customers and try to convince them to give you money by talking up your product. That's clearly what this is and if you could actually look at this from the view of someone who makes their livelihood off of this game rather than needing your position normalized for what's really no good reason in the face of a major change you'd see it's not a big deal.
For some reason i feel that this marketing is not targeting people who 'on his 30x and mainly in IT sphere'.....
but yeah.... we need new players....
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron
The-Culture
1947
|
Posted - 2016.11.22 13:30:12 -
[79] - Quote
Jake Warbird wrote:Brigadine Ferathine wrote:Jake Warbird wrote:We're splitting hairs over marketing which is clearly aimed at new bloods? Really? I liked GD better when there were threadnaughts on just 'Grr Goons' or CCP hiring policies. If its aimed at new bloods that why was it crammed down my throat upon logging in? If it didn't apply to me why did CCP force message me about it? Never mind the fact I have never been an alpha. "...force message" You also think that people "force" miners into tanking their 100% yield mining barges, correct?
Try harder kid. He was talking about Omegas having signs targeting Alphas all over the client.
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Frostys Virpio
Yet another corpdot.
2977
|
Posted - 2016.11.22 14:06:53 -
[80] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Jake Warbird wrote:Brigadine Ferathine wrote:Jake Warbird wrote:We're splitting hairs over marketing which is clearly aimed at new bloods? Really? I liked GD better when there were threadnaughts on just 'Grr Goons' or CCP hiring policies. If its aimed at new bloods that why was it crammed down my throat upon logging in? If it didn't apply to me why did CCP force message me about it? Never mind the fact I have never been an alpha. "...force message" You also think that people "force" miners into tanking their 100% yield mining barges, correct? Try harder kid. He was talking about Omegas having signs targeting Alphas all over the client.
Never had beer ads on TV while you were not of legal age to purchase it? It's generic. Not every single ads you see in the whole world 100% of the time is directed at you. |
Frostys Virpio
Yet another corpdot.
2977
|
Posted - 2016.11.22 14:13:53 -
[81] - Quote
Conrad Makbure wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Conrad Makbure wrote:Amanda Chelian wrote:Yup, it's the alphas that are running at half training speed. But "train skills at normal speed!" doesn't make for good marketing to get the Omega sub sold, hence the play with words. Yeah, but saying Alpha is the new normal speed overnight is dumb. It would have been better to just not put a "2x" on the Omega skill window and rather have something that says "training at half speed, subscribe now for full training speed" for Alpha. When Alpha clones subscribe, they will see the difference in days reduced on their training queues. That's all you need, no need to put 2x on the subscriber queue window. That makes sense if you ignore who you're marketing to on a few levels. 1) It marks the new alpha accounts that you're doing your best to welcome as substandard with "half speed training" 2) It makes what we consider normal training a players prior to alphas seem more special than just "normal" 3) And since this is all marketed at showing alphas what they have to gain by paying as opposed to showing existing paying customers what they already have when it should be pretty obvious there is really no gain in doing it that way. Well, no gain except maybe this thread not existing. This is one of the dumbest marketing angles. "We're going to say that normal speed is now 2x speed and half training speed is now the new normal speed." That just sounds stupid and that's exactly what this change is, I don't care who it's marketed to.
That's not what they say. The ad is targeted at alphas who currently train at a reduced rate compared to Omegas. If those account holder decide to subscribe, their training rate will double. This ad was NEVER targeted at any current Omega account holder. Any alpha account holder will see the ad and think it make sense because what is advertised is exactly what they will get. For the entire duration of their alpha state existence, account train at the reduced rate. Paying a subscription on those alpha turn them into Omega which, among other things, double the rate at which they accumulate SP. If you look at the ad from the wrong point of view, you will of course see the wrong message. It's like cell phones provider advertising specials for new customers and you as an existing one think the wording is wrong because you already get what they are offering. |
Frostys Virpio
Yet another corpdot.
2977
|
Posted - 2016.11.22 14:16:29 -
[82] - Quote
Conrad Makbure wrote:Amanda Chelian wrote:Yup, it's the alphas that are running at half training speed. But "train skills at normal speed!" doesn't make for good marketing to get the Omega sub sold, hence the play with words. Yeah, but saying Alpha is the new normal speed overnight is dumb. It would have been better to just not put a "2x" on the Omega skill window and rather have something that says "training at half speed, subscribe now for full training speed" for Alpha. When Alpha clones subscribe, they will see the difference in days reduced on their training queues. That's all you need, no need to put 2x on the subscriber queue window.
Alpha speed is normal for alpha account. Your Omega account is completely untouched AND also of course unavailable for what is advertised since you are already paying a subscription. You can't double sub your account after all. |
Suroh Kurvora
Dwarf Star Incorporated
8
|
Posted - 2016.11.22 16:15:22 -
[83] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Training at two times the speed of an Alpha, which means that an Alpha trains at half the speed of an Omega.
lol so nothing beyond what we've already had |
Neuntausend
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
1081
|
Posted - 2016.11.22 16:26:28 -
[84] - Quote
Suroh Kurvora wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Training at two times the speed of an Alpha, which means that an Alpha trains at half the speed of an Omega. lol so nothing beyond what we've already had
That is correct. Doesn't say that anywhere either, does it? |
Kara Hawke
The Scope
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.11.22 16:50:58 -
[85] - Quote
The wording is deceiving. When I logged on my Omega the day of the patch I was confused because it said I was training my skills at x2 speed. To artificially change Alpha speed to the new norm overnight - It isn't false advertising... but it is bad wording. To a new player it sounds like training as an alpha is the same it's always been and upgrading to Omega is twice as fast. It does sound better this way because they don't realize that it's just another paywall that puts them at a disadvantage to a Omega state. Honestly I don't think they should have advertised this as f2p. I understand that EVE's economy relies on the subscription method, But playing around on an alpha is literally covered in the Omega symbol on nearly everything, even basic skills. I've also seen several new players asking what it is that they can actually do as an Alpha, the f2p has attracted allot of people, but most wont stick around.  |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2701
|
Posted - 2016.11.22 16:58:32 -
[86] - Quote
Kara Hawke wrote: I've also seen several new players asking what it is that they can actually do as an Alpha
Do you tell them they can kill a Pandemic Legion Apostle?
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
|
Suroh Kurvora
Dwarf Star Incorporated
8
|
Posted - 2016.11.22 17:18:28 -
[87] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Suroh Kurvora wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Training at two times the speed of an Alpha, which means that an Alpha trains at half the speed of an Omega. lol so nothing beyond what we've already had That is correct. Doesn't say that anywhere either, does it?
No, it doesn't say that anywhere, I was honestly under the impression our times would've increased and alphas would've gotten what ours are but naturally, I was wrong haha. |
Neuntausend
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
1082
|
Posted - 2016.11.22 17:47:40 -
[88] - Quote
Kara Hawke wrote:I've also seen several new players asking what it is that they can actually do as an Alpha, the f2p has attracted allot of people, but most wont stick around.
That has always been the same for most newbies, though. Alphas can do about anything in Eve, and most new players will not even get as far as to hit the limitations of what an Alpha character can do. It is very difficult to figure out what to do in Eve, and the obvious, in your face choices (mining, mission running) are boring as all hell.
Eve is a game you need to stick with and get involved with its community. Most players don't have the patience to even really start playing Eve, no matter how much time they get to try it out. I would go out on a limb and say that most new players didn't even have the endurance to finish the trial when it was still 14/21 days. So, it's only a few newbies that will stick around beyond that as Alpha Clone players as well.
There is a lot of fun to be had in Faction Warfare, Wormholes, Incursions, Nullsec and many other facets of the game, and Alphas can participate in all of them. But in order to get to those, one needs to get familiar with the game mechanics and make some friends to play with, and both of these things take more time than many players are willing to spend.
Suroh Kurvora wrote:I'd like to point out that is in fact yet another reason which helps prove my point that this new so-called free to play model is nothing more than an indefinite trial "mode". CCP will invariably re-work this model despite their fervent claims that everything is working well and fine.
Of course they will iterate on it. CCP always claim that everything is completely fine and working as intended, and it usually takes them a few months or even years to catch on to the fact that it's really not. However, I sure hope they don't end up with a standard run-off-the-mill F2P system. If you allow players "almost" full access to the game without major limitations, they will have no reason to sub, and if they don't sub, CCP doesn't make any money. So they'd have to add items to the NES that actually affect gameplay, to entice players to spend money there, and that is something I deeply resent. |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
4614
|
Posted - 2016.11.23 13:29:29 -
[89] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Jake Warbird wrote:Brigadine Ferathine wrote:Jake Warbird wrote:We're splitting hairs over marketing which is clearly aimed at new bloods? Really? I liked GD better when there were threadnaughts on just 'Grr Goons' or CCP hiring policies. If its aimed at new bloods that why was it crammed down my throat upon logging in? If it didn't apply to me why did CCP force message me about it? Never mind the fact I have never been an alpha. "...force message" You also think that people "force" miners into tanking their 100% yield mining barges, correct? Try harder kid. He was talking about Omegas having signs targeting Alphas all over the client.
Uncle bob, you forgot your meds again. If he's that sensitive to ads, maybe he should just not play Eve? I mean, there are things that are far more... intimately obtrusive than ads in the game.
**Sugar Von MurdererTits-á**: Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
|
Valkyrie Harkonnen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2016.11.23 14:27:56 -
[90] - Quote
Get 2x more fries for just 2x more money!
Start your EVE experience with 250.000 extra skill points!
|
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron
The-Culture
1951
|
Posted - 2016.11.23 15:30:53 -
[91] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Kara Hawke wrote: I've also seen several new players asking what it is that they can actually do as an Alpha Do you tell them they can kill a Pandemic Legion Apostle?
Is it really achievement these days? To kill 1 of 123456789th already built ships? And already was late for years to be first killers (1st kill of newly introduced ship is still a history).
And even if new player gets this kill and feel amazed what's next? Kill PL Minokawa?
The problem (as i see it) is that Alpha players are only can be killers in hordes or killers of bads. Well.... Some people built their game play around killing AFK miners in empire so i wouldn't be amazed if someone sees it as norm
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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