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Hardener setup for a Drake vs. Guristas.

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Arakidias	Posted - 2007.04.03 08:31:00 - [1] Which would be better, 2x Ballistic 1x Invul or 2x Ballistic 1x Heat dissapation? It seems to me that most of the time the Guristas ship only do kinetic from missiles, hence the question.
Ghan Tylous Caldari The Graduates Ivy League	Posted - 2007.04.03 08:40:00 - [2] Main damage type of Guristas is kinetic, second is thermal so 2 ballistic and 1 thermal. --- It have always fallen to a few to sacrifice for the good of many Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.04.03 09:08:00 - [3] More precisely, Guristas deal mostly kinetic damage, but on average at least 20% of it (up to 30% even in some cases) is thermal. Let's just say about 1/4 of damage is thermal and 3/4 is kinatic for our calculations. Assuming L2 in battlecruisers on your Drake... T1 2K/1In: 88.36522299/52 resists ; 20.73% of raw damage taken T1 2K/1T : 86.42943977/68 resists ; 18.18% of raw damage taken T2 2K/1In: 90.65511797/55.2 resists ; 18.21% of raw damage taken T2 2K/1T : 88.72514537/71.2 resists ; 15.66% of raw damage taken Obviously, you can see 2K+1T is best for the Guristas damage spread. _ MySkills \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Hephaesteus Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.03 09:33:00 - [4] Originally by: Akita T More precisely, Guristas deal mostly kinetic damage, but on average at least 20% of it (up to 30% even in some cases) is thermal. Let's just say about 1/4 of damage is thermal and 3/4 is kinatic for our calculations. Assuming L2 in battlecruisers on your Drake... T1 2K/1In: 88.36522299/52 resists ; 20.73% of raw damage taken T1 2K/1T : 86.42943977/68 resists ; 18.18% of raw damage taken T2 2K/1In: 90.65511797/55.2 resists ; 18.21% of raw damage taken T2 2K/1T : 88.72514537/71.2 resists ; 15.66% of raw damage taken Obviously, you can see 2K+1T is best for the Guristas damage spread. What, you couldn't just say 2 Kinetic 1 thermal. Instead you get all wordy and mathy.
Calth Ragnarr mega mining corporation	Posted - 2007.04.03 09:35:00 - [5] Originally by: Akita T More precisely, Guristas deal mostly kinetic damage, but on average at least 20% of it (up to 30% even in some cases) is thermal. Let's just say about 1/4 of damage is thermal and 3/4 is kinatic for our calculations. Assuming L2 in battlecruisers on your Drake... T1 2K/1In: 88.36522299/52 resists ; 20.73% of raw damage taken T1 2K/1T : 86.42943977/68 resists ; 18.18% of raw damage taken T2 2K/1In: 90.65511797/55.2 resists ; 18.21% of raw damage taken T2 2K/1T : 88.72514537/71.2 resists ; 15.66% of raw damage taken Obviously, you can see 2K+1T is best for the Guristas damage spread. Yes, if you sit still at NPC's optimal, but kinetic damage comes mostly from missiles (who always hit) and thermal from guns (who may not hit if you keep a decent range or good transversal) so I prefer 2 kin 1 inv
Hephaesteus Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.03 09:53:00 - [6] Originally by: Calth Ragnarr Yes, if you sit still at NPC's optimal, but kinetic damage comes mostly from missiles (who always hit) and thermal from guns (who may not hit if you keep a decent range or good transversal) so I prefer 2 kin 1 inv How'd you work that out Calth? If you have mainly kinetic damage and a secondary of thermal you would be better off with 2 kinetic hardeners and 1 thermal hardener as apposed to an inv field?
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.04.03 10:55:00 - [7] A T2 invul, being the 3rd stack-nerfed value in a 2K/1Inv setup barely gives you above 17% to kinetic resist and the full 30% to thermal resist. If you THINK none of the thermal damage will hit you, then why not slap THREE T2 kinetic resists then ? It would certainly make a lot more sense (only ~7.737% of raw damage taken for a ~92.263% resist). In order to figure out the optimal hardner setup, one needs to know the "percentage damage spread" between incoming damage types. Give me a clear number (X% kinetic damage, Y% thermal, etc) and I will tell you which hardner setup is best suited. For instance, if you have 85% K and 15% T incoming damage, the 2K/1T hardner setup is STILL better. If you have 90% K and 10% T, then 2K/1Inv is better. If you have 100% K and 0% T, then 3K is best. _ MySkills \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Alesandra Caldari CAS Technologies and Logistics The OSS	Posted - 2007.04.03 11:36:00 - [8] ALSO bear in mind that a lot of the Guristas frigate fire missiles doing thermal dmg too....
Eamon Wouk	Posted - 2007.04.03 11:57:00 - [9] I don't bother tweaking my setup for the type of rats and do level 4's just fine. I use 3 LSE2, 1 em, 1 kin, 1 therm passive resistance amp 2's. In the lows a mix of SPR2, BCS, and PDS. 3 purger rigs.
Kat Dinahk	Posted - 2007.04.03 12:17:00 - [10] Edited by: Kat Dinahk on 03/04/2007 12:21:34 Edited by: Kat Dinahk on 03/04/2007 12:19:38 I found the Drake one of the easiest ships to fit for missions up to and including lvl 3s, not tried lvl 4 yet. The most popular setup in my experience is, 3x T2 Large Extender and 3x T2 amps and a mix of shield regen mods in lows. The 2x Kin, 1x Ther amps is standard for Gurista missions but you can quite easily drop an Expander for another amp or an invul field for Angels and other rats that deal more than two damage types. Imo passive is the way to go on a Drake hardeners just increase your sig too much and the extra resists do not make up for it
Arakidias	Posted - 2007.04.03 15:12:00 - [11] Originally by: Kat Dinahk Edited by: Kat Dinahk on 03/04/2007 12:21:34 Edited by: Kat Dinahk on 03/04/2007 12:19:38 I found the Drake one of the easiest ships to fit for missions up to and including lvl 3s, not tried lvl 4 yet. The most popular setup in my experience is, 3x T2 Large Extender and 3x T2 amps and a mix of shield regen mods in lows. The 2x Kin, 1x Ther amps is standard for Gurista missions but you can quite easily drop an Expander for another amp or an invul field for Angels and other rats that deal more than two damage types. Imo passive is the way to go on a Drake hardeners just increase your sig too much and the extra resists do not make up for it Active hardeners do not increase sig radius. Shield extenders do. On missions i see no reason not to equip active hardners. What else are you going to use that cap on anyway?
Project Chick Cash Money Millionaires	Posted - 2007.04.03 16:29:00 - [12] Originally by: Hephaesteus What, you couldn't just say 2 Kinetic 1 thermal. Instead you get all wordy and mathy. words and math are what smart people use to communicate.
Caldorous Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.03 16:35:00 - [13] Originally by: Hephaesteus Originally by: Akita T More precisely, Guristas deal mostly kinetic damage, but on average at least 20% of it (up to 30% even in some cases) is thermal. Let's just say about 1/4 of damage is thermal and 3/4 is kinatic for our calculations. Assuming L2 in battlecruisers on your Drake... T1 2K/1In: 88.36522299/52 resists ; 20.73% of raw damage taken T1 2K/1T : 86.42943977/68 resists ; 18.18% of raw damage taken T2 2K/1In: 90.65511797/55.2 resists ; 18.21% of raw damage taken T2 2K/1T : 88.72514537/71.2 resists ; 15.66% of raw damage taken Obviously, you can see 2K+1T is best for the Guristas damage spread. What, you couldn't just say 2 Kinetic 1 thermal. Instead you get all wordy and mathy. The conclusion alone can be debatable, the whole mathematical explanation becames undebatable (have you ever seen C.S.I.? ) -----------------------------
Glorificus	Posted - 2007.04.03 22:40:00 - [14] Edited by: Glorificus on 03/04/2007 22:37:12
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.04.04 05:23:00 - [15] For level 3's it doesn't matter... in a drake you won't die either way. And as to level 4's there is a better chance you'll have to fight a few EM/Expl targets in the form of turrets or other things. In which case the Invuln is better. But some people may not be able to run an Invuln and 2 hardeners without running out of cap. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Hephaesteus Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.04 09:52:00 - [16] Tbh 2 kinetic and 1 thermal is all you need v guristas I have soloed them all and never used anything else. Hell I even soloed Guri ex with a blaster Eagle with no em resists at all and had no problems. As for the "wordy & mathy" thing. I think some people use more complex phrases and math to make themselves seem like a "brain" instead of saying things plainly. It is not "cool" it is silly and "pompous" .
Ancallan Mustelid Armada	Posted - 2007.04.04 11:27:00 - [17] I don't even use shield hardeners for Level III missions. Large Shield Booster + Boost Amplifier works with absolutely no problems. I also use 4x Power Diagnostics and 3x Capacitor Recharges to make sure that the Booster stays sustainable indefinately.

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