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Anowene Amatarsu
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Posted - 2007.04.05 13:39:00 -
[1]
I was hoping that some of you could help me settle a dispute. My character, who is over a year old and at 8.5mil sp, has been deemed "not worth playing" by a close family member who also plays. Admittedly, this was my first character in Eve and I may have flubbed up the Attribs just a bit during creation.
Allow me to note that I didn't play her continuously for a year, there were about 5 months that she went without skilling up due to my physical location preventing me from having the software.
Her attribs are sitting anywhere between 17 - 24 with +3 implants, the exception being charisma which is painfully low due to my neglect in the learning skills area.
Is there ever a point where you should just scrap over 1 years worth of skilling up because of attributes? Yes, it takes her a little longer to train and she will be dependent on implants to boost some of the lower stats.
To be honest, I personally feel a small sense of pride in my ability to navigate through the vast choices in this game and determine a course for my character. That, I've also been told, is ridiculous.
So, I was given the option of taking over my husbands second character, who is sitting at over 12mil sp. I've been playing that toon and continuing to skill up this one in the meantime. But, I'm having a hard time giving her up for good. She's mine, has been from creation and I've invested so much time and effort into making her a capable missle boat pilot. There's that personal pride in a video game character again....sigh.
I guess the question remains, would any of you give up a character that you've played from the very beginning and are fairly pleased with, to a somewhat better character that you've put no effort into or had no say in whatsoever?
Thanks for whatever thoughts you might have.
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GC13
Caldari
Derelik Trading Company
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Posted - 2007.04.05 13:44:00 -
[2]
My character's attributes are set in a sub-optimum way for combat, which makes life suck sometimes. Still, it's my character (with plenty of non-combat skills), and your attributes are definitely good enough to get the job done.
--
Science and Industry guide plus A Newbie's Guide to Caldari Ships
Eve and RPG blog |
Cipher7
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2007.04.05 13:48:00 -
[3]
I think you should keep the one you like.
You can't really screw up attributes that bad, unless its like 29 charisma 3 per 3 mem 3 int 3 wil, then I would say maybe you should reroll :-P
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Donathan Slade
Kay Korporation
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.04.05 13:50:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Donathan Slade on 05/04/2007 13:47:45
IMO how you picked your attributes is what you wanted. Though, it all depends what you want to do. I myself am Gallente and took my skills to the balance and in so doing got my attributes balanced and my skills to be at lvl 4 space command for gallente starter ships.
There are times when i regret having balanced my skills and not having the super fast training in some area's. At the same time, I have 2.7 Mill skill points and I won't re-make my char. The reason I also balanced my skills was it was my first char and it was recommended that i balance them for the sake of deciding to change my mind later, or even just have the opportunity to do multiple things. Skills only edit how fast training goes. which, basically says, how fast you "get sp or lvl up per say".
Do what you feel is best. I have my skills at about 15-17 without implants, and its kinda worth having the learning skills. The only reason I stopped lvling my lvling skills and upped my other skills right now is because I have a few. "one day" skills I need to get now that I'm in 0.0 space, then back to learning until I'm set with them for a while.
I might not have the uber high perception or mem/wilpower that say, Caldari have. But, I'm also more versitile for my trade/leadership/production skills.
Hope this helps.
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Fenrec Deac
Malkalen Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.04.05 13:51:00 -
[5]
You cant deny having 8.5 mil Sp. They have to be good for something. Maybe your choice of a character is more "the allrounder" instead of someone specialized. Maybe your family member meant that your char is not worth playing from a point of a pure fighter, or pure industrialist. I play EvE since beta and have had several long breaks as well so I guess I have one of the elder chars with lowest SP around ( 16 mil in 163 skills ). It might not be the best char around, but it is mine.
However, you can still set a new direction for your training. You should raise your learning skills as high as possible and then consider this list of core skills for every pilot :
Engineering 5 - to maximize the power core.
Electronics 5 - to maximize the CPU.
Energy Management 5 - to maximize the capacitor capacity.
Energy Systems Operation 5 - to maximize the rate at which the capacitor recharges.
Energy Grid Upgrades 5 - to reduce the CPU requirements of installing power modules.
Mechanic 5 - To maximize hull strength.
Shield Management 5 - to maximize shield capacity.
Shield Operation 5 - to maximize the rate at which the shield recharges.
Hull Upgrade 5 - To maximize armor strength.
Repair Systems 4 - To be able to operate the best armor and hull repair modules.
Eve is about choice .... play how you like ... not how someone else likes you to.
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Donathan Slade
Kay Korporation
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.04.05 13:56:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Fenrec Deac
Eve is about choice .... play how you like ... not how someone else likes you to.
Besides that EVE is a space game, thats one of the things that brought me to this game. In the end, I might say have 5 Mill Skill points, and somebody might have 18 Mill. But, there is only so far you can go in a single tree say, Hybrid Weapons. I could have my hybrid maxed, and he could have his maxed and we would be on par. His other skills might be in trading,refining,production and thats worthless in combat, so you with less skillpoints could still take him in a fight. Its all about where you build your SP to where you want to excel.
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Disco Flint
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.04.05 14:14:00 -
[7]
Originally by: GC13
My character's attributes are set in a sub-optimum way for combat, which makes life suck sometimes. Still, it's my character (with plenty of non-combat skills), and your attributes are definitely good enough to get the job done.
Same here. Started without a damn clue about attributes, skills and so on. My Perc/Will are really high and my Mem/Int abysmally low, Char hovering somewhere in between. Some would consider this 'gimped' or whatever, but it's my character and his flaws make him much more "me" than the standard run-off-the-mill achura cybermonkknight with perfect attributes.
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Anowene Amatarsu
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Posted - 2007.04.05 14:18:00 -
[8]
All of you gave me some very thoughtful answers and you reaffirmed my own compulsion to say "she's mine and whatever she has is part of her character, thus part of me and what I chose for her".
I'm definitely keeping her.
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Ithoriel
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2007.04.05 14:21:00 -
[9]
So it may take you a little longer to learn certain skills than another character would take.
Are you having fun with the character? If so it's worth playing IMHO.
But then I'm an Empire-hugging Carebear so what do I know  
As far as I'm concerned EVE is a journey not a destination - all that matters is that you enjoy the ride.
Growing old is mandatory, growing up is entirely optional |
Fischig
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Posted - 2007.04.05 14:26:00 -
[10]
Your family member obviously hasnt done the maths. Lets say you reroll a new char, only for combat (this is only an example) and have 5 more in perception and willpower each. This means in training gunnery skills you will gain an extra 7.5 skillpoints per minute of training, equivalent to an extra 10800sp per day if you only ever train skills that use your new higher attributes. Despite these unlikely and optimistic values and assumptions, it will take you approximately 787 days to recoup your loss of those 8.5mil sp you have already and start making "profit" ie gaining more sp than you would have had if you had not rerolled. Not only will you have to play for over two years to start making gains you otherwise wouldn't have, you will spend another year building a character up from scratch again. This is of course with some very unlikely assumptions (that you will only be training skills with the increased attributes, and that the increases will be as high as 5). My case is a little rough round the edges and you could do a lot more complex analysis mathematically and of the pros and cons, but basically its not going to be worth rerolling when you've already got 8.5mil sp.
Heres the working:
5 + 2.5 = 7.5 extra sp per minute
24 x 60 x 7.5 = 10800 sp per day
8500000 / 10800 = 787 days
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Asinia Au
Amarr
The Sobani
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Posted - 2007.04.05 15:02:00 -
[11]
I'm with you Anowene.
I can't imagine giving up the character I've cared for and directed for all these months, even for a character with twice the SP, even one with more focus or more generalization or more whatever, if I was not the one to attend to the skilling of the character myself.
Whatever her perceived limitations, I'm sure they are not nearly so bad as certain people may believe. If you enjoy playing your character better, then stay with her.
And tell your husband I said so! 
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Asinia Au
Amarr
The Sobani
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Posted - 2007.04.05 15:05:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ithoriel
So it may take you a little longer to learn certain skills than another character would take.
Are you having fun with the character? If so it's worth playing IMHO.
But then I'm an Empire-hugging Carebear so what do I know
As far as I'm concerned EVE is a journey not a destination - all that matters is that you enjoy the ride.
Quoted for emphasis.
This is my tkae on EVE, exactly!
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Anowene Amatarsu
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Posted - 2007.04.05 15:18:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Asinia Au
I'm with you Anowene.
I can't imagine giving up the character I've cared for and directed for all these months, even for a character with twice the SP, even one with more focus or more generalization or more whatever, if I was not the one to attend to the skilling of the character myself.
Whatever her perceived limitations, I'm sure they are not nearly so bad as certain people may believe. If you enjoy playing your character better, then stay with her.
And tell your husband I said so!
<3
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Gartel Reiman
Project F3
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Posted - 2007.04.05 21:19:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Fischig
Lets say you reroll a new char... it will take you approximately 787 days to recoup your loss of those 8.5mil sp you have already and start making "profit".
That's very true. And even then, that "profit" assumes that all your non-combat skills are worthless. If you want to get your social/trade/science/industry/leadership etc. skills off their starting values, you have to add that time in too.
I bet loads of combat-focussed players don't realise quite how much they benefit from their non-combat skills. And I bet they would the day they suddenly had them all reset to level 1... 
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Jared Tua'tha
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Posted - 2007.04.06 11:13:00 -
[15]
Attachment to a character is so much more important than min/maxing. "Perfect" characters are so boring. Stick with your original character if you feel like she's alive.
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Banthu J'karr
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Posted - 2007.04.06 16:56:00 -
[16]
I have some advice. Please follow it in the following order:
1) Go to your local sports store and buy a baseball bat.
2) Go see "close family member".
3) Hold bat in an aggressive manner and yell "WHAT DID YOU SAY ABOUT ANOWENE?? YOU WANNA REPEAT THAT, PUNK???"
If you have any further problems with "close family member", contact me and I will have a "close family member" of mine (whose Italian name I won't state here) pay him/her a visit and kick things up a notch or two.
You're welcome.
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Thuban Draconis
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Posted - 2007.04.06 17:02:00 -
[17]
HereÆs some math for you. (IÆm not going to get too precise because these are just examples.)
LetÆs say, worst case you started with two attributes at ô3.ö (if this is even possible) You could add in 9 points from attribute boosting skills, a +3 implant, and +10% learning skill. Your final score would be 16.5.
Compare that to an optimal character that started with all four major attributes at ô9ö (and a Cha of ô3.ö) This character would have 9+9+3+10% for a grand total of ô23.1ö in the four major attributes. That would mean you would only learn 71% as fast as someone who was optimal at creation.
BUT, this only applies when you are training skills that rely on both of your low stats. Since you are low in some things you must be high in others. Assuming you started two major attributes at ô12ö (with a ô9ö base charisma) you would have 12+9+3+10% or 26.4 in two stats. This would mean the optimum character only trained 87.5% as fast as you do on skills that rely on your high attributes. On skills that relied on one high and one low attribute things would balance out fairly well with perhaps a few percentage points benefit to the optimum character.
So, if you restarted you might see some minor benefit in six or seven years. Except that by then, there will probably be some new learning skills out or better implants that will make the difference even more insignificant.
Stick with what youÆve got.
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Simon Jax
Gallente
Freedom Guard
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.06 17:28:00 -
[18]
I hereby grant Thuban Draconis with one forum cookie. Enjoy.
It's pretty clear that your hubby has good intentions, but just hasn't done the math quite right. I know that once I started approaching the 10 million SP mark I was thinking that I may have misjudged my attribute choices. Things were taking so long to train that it just didn't seem right. Well, that's just my perception, and you may be hitting the same proverbial wall at this point.
There just comes a time where you've done so much of the 'easy' training that gaining levels in any skill takes a good long time. In the grand scheme of things you're better off playing to your attribute strengths than you would be starting over. So if your Charisma is higher than you would have put it were you to start over, you could always shift a bit of your training focus to those skills that make use of it. The Leadership tree can yield some pretty powerful benefits for those who focus on it, for example.
--Wherever you go, there you are.
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Lygos
Finis Actum
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Posted - 2007.04.06 19:08:00 -
[19]
I've always found starting new characters to be fun, which is why I train all three avatars on my account.
However, it would be a lot more fun without all the learning skills, the fitting skills, and the non-specialist skills. It's ironic to me that the hardest things to fit are the ones most accessible to a novice player.
Your character is specialized in -something- no matter what. If it is not something you enjoy, begin a second character. Or just get another account. There's pretty much never a reason to scrap a character.
The biggest downside I find to having lots of characters is that insurance policies tend to expire with greater regularity than payouts, which makes the non-platinum offerings more attractive.
---
T2 Risk | Corp Divisions |
Asinia Au
Amarr
The Sobani
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Posted - 2007.04.06 19:28:00 -
[20]
Considering that Anowene stated in her original post that the 2 choices before her were to either continue with her character having 8.5m SP or switching to one of her husband's with about 12m, I am not understanding why so many people are comparing the virtues of sticking with her original or rerolling from scratch.
/me shrugs
For me personally, as I said earlier, I definitely would stick with the character I created and nurtured. As has been said also, it is not the destination, but the journey that is interesting.
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