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Keno Skir
1028
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Posted - 2016.12.02 14:22:54 -
[31] - Quote
2Sonas1Cup wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:2Sonas1Cup wrote:It's been awhile now and we could see the drastic decline in players numbers since ISBOX was banned.
I think it's time for CCP to reconsider the option to allow us key broadcasting and let us have fun in your game for once.
I hope these couple years have shown you how much better it is for everyone including CCP and eve online, when key broadcasting is part of this game.
The "dying" patterns we have come used to see in eve with 15k players online at peak times, compared to when ISBOX was allowed with 40k+ players online at all times, are proof enough that removing the ability to key broadcasting in eve isn't so smart, and actually kills the game for MANY people, not only the ones that do it but also everyone else that would be involved in whatever activity provided by ISBOX.
Maybe just maybe it's time to stop and rethink about how much more content, events, situations and general activity in eve, key broadcasting can provide to everyone, together with happiness and enjoyment, bringing this game back alive again.
Thanks for reading. As a former ISBox user.. nope The advantage it gave was pretty obscene. I used it primary to run 3 passive tengus running LvL5 missions. The amount of isk I earned with such little effort was ridiculous. It was abused so much. From running huge mining fleets to Incursion fleets. I enjoyed it whiled it lasted but its a good thing its gone. The advantage or not advantage isnt part of the equation any longer. When you speak about advantage but I speak about in game activity, thriving and everyones enjoyment, that advantage you speak of becomes a positive in the equation and not a negative like you are trying to imply. As I said, all what key broadcasting does is to provide life to EVE and everyone, and money too ccp. Or is it better to have 15k players online, 10k of them docked rather than 40k and thriving in game content? I really hope CCP realise that eve is much better game to everyone with key broadcasting, advantage or not isnt the case here, but the fun, the content and activity.
You have literally 0 clue what you're talking about.
And no.
<Gùï> 250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <Gùï>
Including ISK Bonus & In Game Assistance - Piracy / Wormhole Space / Covops PvP
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Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
1019
|
Posted - 2016.12.02 14:25:00 -
[32] - Quote
Hrist Harkonnen wrote:The question is why CCP ever allowed botting in the first place with that program.
From what I recall ISBoxer started as a "helper" program for organising/working more efficiently manually with multiple clients it was only later really that it became more useful for automation type functionality.
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Keno Skir
1028
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Posted - 2016.12.02 14:29:18 -
[33] - Quote
Jason Coralin wrote:I just don't understand why CCP is so hostile to solo minded players.
See you said "solo minded players" instead of "players who want to fly an entire fleet solo, breaking the game in many ways". If you used the correct statement you'd understand just fine.
Straw man much?
<Gùï> 250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <Gùï>
Including ISK Bonus & In Game Assistance - Piracy / Wormhole Space / Covops PvP
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Toobo
Project Fruit House
Solyaris Chtonium
322
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Posted - 2016.12.02 14:38:06 -
[34] - Quote
While I do play in a corp (always have) and enjoy group activities, I can understand the appeal of 'flying an entire fleet solo, breaking the game in many ways'. Some people (including me), just like pushing the limits of what can be done solo in a MMO. For some, that means strictly on a single account/single ship/single character or whatever, but for others, it means running army of alts all 100% under your own control. Take away the key broadcasting of ISBoxer, and you have a neat program that allows you to manage windows lay outs so you can do this in much more convenient ways (but you have to click so many things yourself one at a time).
I do not agree with OP about 'bring back key broadcasting', but if you are not using key broadcasting, ISBoxer isn't really a game breaking tool. But CCP is very vague about the use of such programs. While on paper it sounds like they just don't want people key broadcasting, on other parts of the EULA and their comments over the years they also have an issue with people fiddling with the 'appearance of the game' to some extent, e.g., using ISBOxer so that overview of your gate/hole scouting alt is conveniently displayed on its own exactly where you want it.
Key broadcasting I do not agree with, but interface/windows fiddling for me is something quite cool/fun/creative, but CCP and some players don't like them. :p
EDIT: Just to add, I run up to 6 accounts at times. I usually have them on a single or dual screen scattered in 1024x768 resolution windows each (so many of them are overlapping). I'm familiar enough with this set up to do what I want with them at ok standard, but EVE, for a game that has such good multiboxing potentials, should really offer more flexible options to manage multiple accounts.
"When faced with my demons, I clothe them and feed them,
and I smile, yes I smile as they are taking me over" - Strange Glue
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Jason Coralin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.12.02 14:42:36 -
[35] - Quote
Toobo wrote:
Key broadcasting I do not agree with, but interface/windows fiddling for me is something quite cool/fun/creative, but CCP and some players don't like them. :p
Video FX and DXNothing is also not allowed, so ISBoxer doesn't really give you much of anything under the new rules.
I could even potentially be OK with not have broadcasting if they allowed the use of Video FX and DXNothing, but nope, no love for solo players, all love for groups. |
Toobo
Project Fruit House
Solyaris Chtonium
322
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Posted - 2016.12.02 14:45:10 -
[36] - Quote
Jason Coralin wrote:Toobo wrote:
Key broadcasting I do not agree with, but interface/windows fiddling for me is something quite cool/fun/creative, but CCP and some players don't like them. :p
Video FX and DXNothing is also not allowed, so ISBoxer doesn't really give you much of anything under the new rules. I could even potentially be OK with not have broadcasting if they allowed the use of Video FX and DXNothing, but nope, no love for solo players, all love for groups.
yeah you wrote that as I was adding on to my previous posts. This is something I'm not too happy with. :p I mean VideoFX and DXNothing can be just really useful cosmetic tool or for customising layouts, but even that's not allowed...
"When faced with my demons, I clothe them and feed them,
and I smile, yes I smile as they are taking me over" - Strange Glue
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Nalia White
Tencus
211
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Posted - 2016.12.02 14:50:35 -
[37] - Quote
Toobo wrote:I tend to be playing the game (or at least hang out with people who do) in the way CCP doesn't want. :p Last month I 'raged' about ban on gambling and many people I hung out on daily basis quit EVE. :(
Oh man, now you bring back the ISBoxer topic, yes, I did lose some EVE friends over that too, who rage quit when it got banned. It was obscene what you could do/earn with it but personally I didn't do it and I didn't think it was an issue, but CCP thought it was. It was also obscene what you could make from ISK gambling but I didn't think it was an issue, but CCP thought it was.
Oh well.
gambling addicts and isboxers... dare i say you have the wrong friends :) |
Jason Coralin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.02 14:51:28 -
[38] - Quote
Toobo wrote:Jason Coralin wrote:Toobo wrote:
Key broadcasting I do not agree with, but interface/windows fiddling for me is something quite cool/fun/creative, but CCP and some players don't like them. :p
Video FX and DXNothing is also not allowed, so ISBoxer doesn't really give you much of anything under the new rules. I could even potentially be OK with not have broadcasting if they allowed the use of Video FX and DXNothing, but nope, no love for solo players, all love for groups. yeah you wrote that as I was adding on to my previous posts. This is something I'm not too happy with. :p I mean VideoFX and DXNothing can be just really useful cosmetic tool or for customising layouts, but even that's not allowed... to clarify on what I asked CCP - I wasn't even asking about using DXNothing, I did clearly say that I will dispaly the whole screen of each client, but just wanted to use ISBoxer to display them at resoultions that EVE Client does not natively let me choose. But the answer still is no. :p
Yep, nothing useful is allowed. Using duct tape on two mice isn't even allowed. We wouldn't want the solo players to be able to compete with the groups would we. |
Jennifer Starblaze
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
18
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Posted - 2016.12.02 15:01:44 -
[39] - Quote
Hell no.
I rather play with 20k legit players who do not use 3rd party software than 40k players, where half of them are at the same level as aimbotters.
If you can not contol x chars without the help of cheating software, then don-¦t run x accounts. And if you only have fun in eve when you are allowed to cheat, maybe you should think about if you actually really like the game.
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Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
489
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Posted - 2016.12.02 15:03:51 -
[40] - Quote
Toobo wrote:I tend to be playing the game (or at least hang out with people who do) in the way CCP doesn't want. :p Last month I 'raged' about ban on gambling and many people I hung out on daily basis quit EVE. :(
Oh man, now you bring back the ISBoxer topic, yes, I did lose some EVE friends over that too, who rage quit when it got banned. It was obscene what you could do/earn with it but personally I didn't do it and I didn't think it was an issue, but CCP thought it was. It was also obscene what you could make from ISK gambling but I didn't think it was an issue, but CCP thought it was.
Oh well.
The obscenity was that players were using ISK gambling to make Gé¼ and $.
And it only takes a few bad apples to litigate the whole...
Good riddance to both RMT gambling ('cause that's what it was) and broadcasting.
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
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Serafiel
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
20
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Posted - 2016.12.02 15:15:11 -
[41] - Quote
Toobo wrote:EVE, for a game that has such good multiboxing potentials, should really offer more flexible options to manage multiple accounts.
What you dont seem to understand, is that CCP does NOT want people to multibox, and does NOT want 60 thousand online, half of which are being run by 10 thousand guys like you.
And neither do we, legit players. |
Jaxon Grylls
Institute of Archaeology
166
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Posted - 2016.12.02 15:16:13 -
[42] - Quote
Jason Coralin wrote:Anyway, is what it is. I just don't understand why CCP is so hostile to solo minded players.
They're not.
ISBox was an exploit in my opinion and I'm glad it's gone. I am a solo player and never saw the benefit in having a mining fleet able to clean out an asteroid belt by myself. Why bother? Just so you can earn enough plex to be able to subscribe to a multitude of account so that you can earn enough ISK to afford the plex? I play for enjoyment and I don't count my success in how much ISK I make in an hour, that just seems a sterile and blinkered way of playing EVE. If you want to brag about how easy making ISK is in EVE fair enough just don't use dubious shortcuts to do so.
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Neuntausend
Rens Nursing Home
1148
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Posted - 2016.12.02 15:26:53 -
[43] - Quote
I don't dislike the idea of key broadcasting. I used to play using different key broadcasters myself, although not Eve. So, I don't mind Isboxer key broadcasting in general, but I too think that it didn't do the game any favors. Of course it's a nice thing to be allowed to do for certain players, but overall I think we're better of with it being prohibited. |
Sir BloodArgon Aulmais
Maximus Corp
The Volition Cult
9
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Posted - 2016.12.02 15:27:11 -
[44] - Quote
This is good, this is good.
Lets get all the dumbass ideas out of the way now, so the forums can be clean for next week. |
Jason Coralin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.12.02 15:34:35 -
[45] - Quote
Jaxon Grylls wrote:Jason Coralin wrote:Anyway, is what it is. I just don't understand why CCP is so hostile to solo minded players. They're not. ISBox was an exploit in my opinion and I'm glad it's gone. I am a solo player and never saw the benefit in having a mining fleet able to clean out an asteroid belt by myself. Why bother? Just so you can earn enough plex to be able to subscribe to a multitude of account so that you can earn enough ISK to afford the plex? I play for enjoyment and I don't count my success in how much ISK I make in an hour, that just seems a sterile and blinkered way of playing EVE. If you want to brag about how easy making ISK is in EVE fair enough just don't use dubious shortcuts to do so.
It had nothing to do with making ISK, at least not for me.
It had everything to do with me as a solo player, being able to access end game content without a group.
Why should only groups be allowed to fly end game ships and have access to end game content? Why not let solo players also have a mechanism to access end game content?
But I get it, CCP just doesn't like solo players. Is what it is.
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Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
489
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Posted - 2016.12.02 15:36:18 -
[46] - Quote
Jason Coralin wrote:
Why are group players morally superior to solo players in your eyes?
Some people, for numerous and varied reasons, don't want to group up.
ISBoxer allowed the solo minded player to compete with the groups. Why is that a bad thing? Why leave the solo players out in the cold and not let them play in the sandbox?
Anyway, is what it is. I just don't understand why CCP is so hostile to solo minded players.
P.S. You probably don't really know how ISBoxer worked if you are saying it was with "infinite ease".
First, EvE is a game the centers on groups: gangs, corps, alliances... blocs.
Please Note, that the game isn't unplayable sol by any means, but choosing to do so indicates that the solo player is accepting this as a challenge.
Second. Anything that a single player can do with multiple accounts, a group can do the task better given the same tools. One player controlling 8 accounts will still lose out to 3 players controlling 8 account each working in tandem.
I'm actually trying to think of anything that a solo player can do with only one character that can't be done better with two or more accounts, and I'm drawing a blank. That's the nature of EvE.
The only things that a player gains by being solo are security - unless your alts are someone's spies  - and control over play-times.
Solo players aren't being shown hostility or left out in the cold. They are knowingly engaging in a playstyle where they are prioritizing personal security and personal time over efficiency, camaraderie, and social engagement.
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
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Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
489
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Posted - 2016.12.02 15:37:48 -
[47] - Quote
Jason Coralin wrote:Why not let solo players also have a mechanism to access end game content?
This is EvE... There is no end-game...
--Forever Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
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Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
1019
|
Posted - 2016.12.02 16:25:17 -
[48] - Quote
Serafiel wrote:
What you dont seem to understand, is that CCP does NOT want people to multibox, and does NOT want 60 thousand online, half of which are being run by 10 thousand guys like you.
And neither do we, legit players.
I've never seen anything from CCP expressly saying they don't want people to multibox - I've seen some CCP employees air the opinion (and a general developer direction) that multi-boxing should not be a necessity in eve.
A game like eve benefits from having a lot of people logged in an active even if a percentage of that is one player with multiple characters aslong as they are doing something - these types of games die very quickly when player numbers drop below a certain threshold - even though eve is a little more resistant to that compared to some. |
Aurelius Oshidashi
Hard-line Syndicate
Serrice Council.
18
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Posted - 2016.12.02 16:36:56 -
[49] - Quote
2Sonas1Cup wrote:It's been awhile now and we could see the drastic decline in players numbers since ISBOX was banned.
I think it's time for CCP to reconsider the option to allow us key broadcasting and let us have fun in your game for once.
.
Having fun in the game for once you say........
I want to thank you so much for deciding yourself you could speak on everyone's behalf. Your status of great leader is quickly confirmed by your analysis pointing towards one main cause for player decline during a certain time. Oh the wisdom, I can only awe at it.
I think we indeed all agree eve should become a less co-operative game that relies more on apps taking care of teamwork. |
Prince Kobol
2513
|
Posted - 2016.12.02 18:05:47 -
[50] - Quote
Jason Coralin wrote:Jaxon Grylls wrote:Jason Coralin wrote:Anyway, is what it is. I just don't understand why CCP is so hostile to solo minded players. They're not. ISBox was an exploit in my opinion and I'm glad it's gone. I am a solo player and never saw the benefit in having a mining fleet able to clean out an asteroid belt by myself. Why bother? Just so you can earn enough plex to be able to subscribe to a multitude of account so that you can earn enough ISK to afford the plex? I play for enjoyment and I don't count my success in how much ISK I make in an hour, that just seems a sterile and blinkered way of playing EVE. If you want to brag about how easy making ISK is in EVE fair enough just don't use dubious shortcuts to do so. It had nothing to do with making ISK, at least not for me. It had everything to do with me as a solo player, being able to access end game content without a group. Why should only groups be allowed to fly end game ships and have access to end game content? Why not let solo players also have a mechanism to access end game content? But I get it, CCP just doesn't like solo players. Is what it is.
What end game content are we talking about here? It would to good know what you consider to be end game content.
For me there really isn't such a thing as End game content within Eve, just different play styles and environments.
Technically you can still do everything you could before ISboxer and such were banned, it is just now a hell of a lot harder which kind of proves the point.
If you find a task next to impossible without ISboxer then that shows how powerful of a tool it became. |
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Jason Coralin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.12.02 18:11:41 -
[51] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Jason Coralin wrote:Jaxon Grylls wrote:Jason Coralin wrote:Anyway, is what it is. I just don't understand why CCP is so hostile to solo minded players. They're not. ISBox was an exploit in my opinion and I'm glad it's gone. I am a solo player and never saw the benefit in having a mining fleet able to clean out an asteroid belt by myself. Why bother? Just so you can earn enough plex to be able to subscribe to a multitude of account so that you can earn enough ISK to afford the plex? I play for enjoyment and I don't count my success in how much ISK I make in an hour, that just seems a sterile and blinkered way of playing EVE. If you want to brag about how easy making ISK is in EVE fair enough just don't use dubious shortcuts to do so. It had nothing to do with making ISK, at least not for me. It had everything to do with me as a solo player, being able to access end game content without a group. Why should only groups be allowed to fly end game ships and have access to end game content? Why not let solo players also have a mechanism to access end game content? But I get it, CCP just doesn't like solo players. Is what it is. What end game content are we talking about here? It would to good know what you consider to be end game content. For me there really isn't such a thing as End game content within Eve, just different play styles and environments. Technically you can still do everything you could before ISboxer and such were banned, it is just now a hell of a lot harder which kind of proves the point. If you find a task next to impossible without ISboxer then that shows how powerful of a tool it became.
Well, how about for starters mining in Null sec and not having to run when enemy fleets showed up. As a solo player, the only way to defend yourself against roving nullsec gangs with your mining fleet was ISBoxer.
Without ISBoxer the only option for solo mining in null sec is running away. Well in my book, running away isn't fun game play.
But I get it, the null sec groups didn't like solo players standing up to them, which is why the petitioned hard to get rid of us unruly solo players.
Well job done. Congrats are in order I suppose. |
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
376
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Posted - 2016.12.02 18:30:30 -
[52] - Quote
isbox wont matter when we are all forced to be limited to 1 account like the alphas as ccp have stated since they limited alphas for "balance" and have plans for omega accounts aswell
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
490
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Posted - 2016.12.02 18:40:39 -
[53] - Quote
Jason Coralin wrote:
Why leave the solo players out in the cold and not let them play in the sandbox?
Anyway, is what it is. I just don't understand why CCP is so hostile to solo minded players.
We wouldn't want the solo players to be able to compete with the groups would we.
But I get it, CCP just doesn't like solo players. Is what it is.
But I get it, the null sec groups didn't like solo players standing up to them, which is why the petitioned hard to get rid of us unruly solo players.
Chief,
What kind of stuff are you smoking.
A bit of paranoia in the game is all well and good - and may even be useful.
Outside the game ... not so much.
Why would the game owners suddenly decide not to like it's players.
That makes no sense, at all.
The game was designed with groups in mind from day one.
There are valid reasons for that design, and while many might disagree with the design philosophy, it was made in pre-WoW days when games like EQ and FFXI absolutely required a group to accomplish anything of note. And while EvE needs to update parts of its outer design to remain viable even in a niche market, the core design needs to stay constant for the same reasons.
Solo play is not discouraged, but the solo player in EvE must understand that she is playing against the grain. And this is fine for those who appreciate a challange or prioritize personal security over effeciency.
--Bemused Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
27096
|
Posted - 2016.12.02 18:40:47 -
[54] - Quote
Agondray wrote:isbox wont matter when we are all forced to be limited to 1 account like the alphas as ccp have stated since they limited alphas for "balance" and have plans for omega accounts aswell Alphas aren't limited to one account, they can have as many as they like; what they can't do is log them in concurrently.
As for the topic of input broadcasting, I'm joining the nays.
Civilised behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
490
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Posted - 2016.12.02 18:41:43 -
[55] - Quote
Agondray wrote:isbox wont matter when we are all forced to be limited to 1 account like the alphas as ccp have stated since they limited alphas for "balance" and have plans for omega accounts aswell
Citation Needed.
--Red-Pen Gadget (isn't touching the other errors)
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
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Prince Kobol
2514
|
Posted - 2016.12.02 18:58:01 -
[56] - Quote
Jason Coralin wrote:
Well, how about for starters mining in Null sec and not having to run when enemy fleets showed up. As a solo player, the only way to defend yourself against roving nullsec gangs with your mining fleet was ISBoxer.
Without ISBoxer the only option for solo mining in null sec is running away. Well in my book, running away isn't fun game play.
But I get it, the null sec groups didn't like solo players standing up to them, which is why the petitioned hard to get rid of us unruly solo players.
Well job done. Congrats are in order I suppose.
Solo mining using how many ships?
Most people definition of solo mining is with one ship. If you are using 5, 10, 15 etc ships then I am sorry you are going to get zero sympathy.
The advantage of being around for a long time is that you have done most things. I have mined in null sec using 4 accounts, 3 hulks + 1 orca all without ISboxer.
Did I run when hostiles came in system, you bet your ass I ran because I never had any expectations that I should be able to fight them off.
I docked up, changed ships, grabbed some corp mates and went hunting.
You are arguing that you want to be able to mine in null sec solo whilst in control of x number of ships and fight people off solo.
Anything else you want? Titan that has a billion HP points, can fit 10 strip miners, infinite cargo hold, deploy 1000 drones all at once and immune to all forms of ECM, Bubbles, bumping etc..
I know I am pushing it but you might as well be asking for it. |
Galaxy Duck
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
233
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Posted - 2016.12.02 19:36:47 -
[57] - Quote
The blood-thirsty ganker in me wants to multibox infinity thrashers on the Jita undock, the reasonable EVE player in me knows that input broadcasting is cheating. |
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
490
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Posted - 2016.12.02 19:38:01 -
[58] - Quote
Galaxy Duck wrote:The blood-thirsty ganker in me wants to multibox infinity thrashers on the Jita undock, the reasonable EVE player in me knows that input broadcasting is cheating.
**cough,cough** stealthbombers **cough, cough**
--Coughing Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
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Jason Coralin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.12.02 20:01:37 -
[59] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:[quote=Jason Coralin]
Solo mining using how many ships?
I solo mined with 10 procurers and one command ship. It was a lot of fun and I could hold my own against many aggressors. I probably lost more than I won, but at least I didn't have to go run and hide
But the groups I was fighting didn't like the fact that one person had the audacity to think solo fighting was OK, so they whined to CCP and the rules were changed.
Is what it is. Life goes on. Yada yada yada. |
Salvos Rhoska
1628
|
Posted - 2016.12.02 20:15:21 -
[60] - Quote
Key broadcasting has done incalculable damage to this games economy and player environment that will take years to recover from (arguably never)
CCPs reaction was very late, but atleast forceful and final.
Never again.
PvE v PvP
Selling CODE licenses! 9.99mil isk!
Bid for unique CODE neon edition special agent certificate!
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