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Graabeerd Khagah
MoonFyre BattleGroup Holdings
173
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Posted - 2016.12.02 14:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
Last night night on Twitter and a shout out to CCP Karkur about leaving relic and data sites unfinished is because of junk or empty cans, the junk being carbon. This creates a false sense that a site is waiting to be hacked and upon getting to the site you find a couple cans not touched or hacked in other words.
I agree that this should stop as this causes problems especially for explorers who go out scanning down these sites only to find it uncompleted. Just because you find a site and use a cargo scanner to find the good loot doesn't give you the right to abandon the rest of the site and by not finishing the site will render a respawn from happening.
Sites in known space or wormholes to not magically disappear after you leave the unfinished site, you have to either 1) start the hack on an empty/junk can, and 2)discontinue the hack to fail it.
My corp along with our friends at Signal Cartel would really appreciate if you would just simply complete the site by failing the hacks so another new fresh site would spawn. We really appreciate it if you take the time to do this, thank you.
Admiral Graabeerd Khagan
MoonFyre BattleGroup Holdings. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2789
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Posted - 2016.12.02 14:21:02 -
[2] - Quote
Graabeerd Khagah wrote:
I agree that this should stop as this causes problems especially for explorers who go out scanning down these sites only to find it uncompleted. Just because you find a site and use a cargo scanner to find the good loot doesn't give you the right to abandon the rest of the site and by not finishing the site will render a respawn from happening.
Er... actually, it does give you that right. Or, more accurately, the fact that this is Eve gives you the right, and the scanner gives you the ability.
Forcing the competition to waste time is reason enough to leave a junk can up.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
382
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Posted - 2016.12.02 14:37:57 -
[3] - Quote
Graabeerd Khagah wrote:Last night night on Twitter and a shout out to CCP Karkur about leaving relic and data sites unfinished is because of junk or empty cans, the junk being carbon. This creates a false sense that a site is waiting to be hacked and upon getting to the site you find a couple cans not touched or hacked in other words.
I agree that this should stop as this causes problems especially for explorers who go out scanning down these sites only to find it uncompleted. Just because you find a site and use a cargo scanner to find the good loot doesn't give you the right to abandon the rest of the site and by not finishing the site will render a respawn from happening.
Sites in known space or wormholes to not magically disappear after you leave the unfinished site, you have to either 1) start the hack on an empty/junk can, and 2)discontinue the hack to fail it.
My corp along with our friends at Signal Cartel would really appreciate if you would just simply complete the site by failing the hacks so another new fresh site would spawn. We really appreciate it if you take the time to do this, thank you.
Admiral Graabeerd Khagan
MoonFyre BattleGroup Holdings.
From my understanding, once a site has been started a despawn timer is started before it disappears. Like a short timer of a few hours.
It use to annoy me that people would cherry pick. But as i kept getting nothing in yellow and red cans in null, my views started changing as i grew frustrated with the current exploration system and lack of attention its received. Finally the day that broke the camels back, i found 2 data and 3 relic sites in a slew of 20 plus sigs.
It took me just over an hour to scan down and run all 5 sites in a W system. When i was done i had about 25 mil in loot. I was so annoyed that i just spent over an hour in a high risk environment for less than what i could make casually running level 4 missions in high. I had several yellow and red cans with less than 10k isk each, in the same site. i had one can that paid a bit over 9 mil. Most of the cans that had loot had under a mil each. Think i got another with 2 or 3 mil in it.
I was so angry as soon as i was able i bought a cargo scanner and vowed to never waste my time hacking empty cans again. And so i dont. It only saves me a couple of minutes here and there most of the time, but those minutes hacking are the ones you are most vulnerable to attack and most distracted.
CCP needs to rework the entire exploration system( sites themselves). Its really out of date. They made a few minor tweeks to it over the years but left the core of the system untouched.
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Nalia White
Tencus
210
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Posted - 2016.12.02 14:43:07 -
[4] - Quote
i always asked myself why ccp made it possible to scan the content of cans. if they would dissalow it this wouldn't be a problem and the sense of wonder for explorers would be even bigger :) |
Kim jong-long
Kukonja
0
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Posted - 2016.12.02 14:52:18 -
[5] - Quote
I for one for the most part always pop all the cans so that the site will maybe re spawn down the line, but I only run relic/data/ghosts in one area so it's in my best interest to do so. Problem is with two types of explorers, day trippers and "smart" explorers. Day trippers are blitzing the site so they can get to the next site and then the next area as fast a possible, hence they could not care less about finishing the sites. Second is the "smart" explorers who do this to hold up the explorer coming up behind them. Leaving the junk cans is a legit tactic to slow down the competition. Smart explorers know this and there is no incentive not to do this. |
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
489
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Posted - 2016.12.02 14:57:43 -
[6] - Quote
Nalia White wrote:i always asked myself why ccp made it possible to scan the content of cans. if they would dissalow it this wouldn't be a problem and the sense of wonder for explorers would be even bigger :)
Agreed.
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
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Zanar Skwigelf
Boa Innovations Brothers of Tangra
63
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Posted - 2016.12.02 15:08:40 -
[7] - Quote
Graabeerd Khagah wrote:Just because you find a site and use a cargo scanner to find the good loot doesn't give you the right to abandon the rest of the site and by not finishing the site will render a respawn from happening.
Its perfectly fine for people to not finish the site, especially in wh space where you are completely exposed while hacking.
I don't know about the rest of data/relic sites, but drone land data sites have 3 cans, 1 has a bpc for integrated drones, 1 has like 50k worth of drone parts, and the 3rd can is empty 95% of the time.
Most of the time I just hack the 2 cans with stuff, since that despawns the site, but completing the 3rd can gives the chance for an escalation. Seems like a good balance if you ask me, although the payout is complete garbage for the first 2 cans.
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Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
577
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Posted - 2016.12.02 15:10:26 -
[8] - Quote
Do you know the sites will despawn on their own in about an hour after 1 can has been hacked?
If I go to a site that has a can hacked I just move on.
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Radix Malorum
Sienar Fleet Systems
0
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Posted - 2016.12.02 15:37:23 -
[9] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:[quote=Graabeerd Khagah]
CCP needs to rework the entire exploration system( sites themselves). Its really out of date. They made a few minor tweeks to it over the years but left the core of the system untouched.
Couldn't agree more. Also, the drone region cans are severely bugged in the sense that it is 100% certain a red can drops no loot at all. There has never been a relation between loot and can difficulty which is idiotic and lazy programming, but the fact that red drone cans consistently drop nothing is beyond me.
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
21624
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Posted - 2016.12.02 15:42:55 -
[10] - Quote
I always complete sites. I am a decent person. And carbon isnt junk. It is a building block of living organisms around New Eden. It is a source of energy. I always take it.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story =ƒôò =ƒÜÇ
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ Osprey
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Gaius Clabbacus
Basket of Deplorables
35
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Posted - 2016.12.02 15:54:52 -
[11] - Quote
Stop galactic warming, leave the carbon in the can!
But yeah, finding one carbon or another Amarr encryption methods is less than exciting. |
Graabeerd Khagah
MoonFyre BattleGroup Holdings
173
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Posted - 2016.12.02 16:15:18 -
[12] - Quote
Thank you for your feedbacks, I am hoping that this will draw CCP's attention to this matter in hopes something can be done. It will take time of course but seriously the leaving of sites uncompleted does no good even if the cans have junk in them. It shouldn't even take more than a minute to fail the sites so another one can respawn in it's place. |
Loreen Parker
State War Academy Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2016.12.02 16:24:06 -
[13] - Quote
Zanar Skwigelf wrote:Graabeerd Khagah wrote:Just because you find a site and use a cargo scanner to find the good loot doesn't give you the right to abandon the rest of the site and by not finishing the site will render a respawn from happening.
Its perfectly fine for people to not finish the site, especially in wh space where you are completely exposed while hacking. I don't know about the rest of data/relic sites, but drone land data sites have 3 cans, 1 has a bpc for integrated drones, 1 has like 50k worth of drone parts, and the 3rd can is empty 95% of the time. Most of the time I just hack the 2 cans with stuff, since that despawns the site, but completing the 3rd can gives the chance for an escalation. Seems like a good balance if you ask me, although the payout is complete garbage for the first 2 cans.
yeah but in drone lands date sites can escalate. so it would be stupid to do them and not finish them.
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Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
831
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Posted - 2016.12.02 16:31:51 -
[14] - Quote
I always blow up the worthless cans, but only because leaving a site half-completed shows a hunter that there is someone doing exploration in the area. letting the site despawn makes it harder to be tracked down by someone wanting to murder me.
And in WH space I don't want anyone to know I'm active in the system by leaving a site half completed so I have a better chance of tackling them for a kill. |
Zanar Skwigelf
Boa Innovations Brothers of Tangra
63
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Posted - 2016.12.02 16:45:19 -
[15] - Quote
Radix Malorum wrote:
Couldn't agree more. Also, the drone region cans are severely bugged in the sense that it is 100% certain a red can drops no loot at all. There has never been a relation between loot and can difficulty which is idiotic and lazy programming, but the fact that red drone cans consistently drop nothing is beyond me.
That empty can is the escalation chance. Its a very low chance of happening, but its there.
Loreen Parker wrote:yeah but in drone lands date sites can escalate. so it would be stupid to do them and not finish them.
Sorry, half baked thought on my part.
The idea was that if CCP is going to change it, make it so all data/relic sites have a chance of escalating when you hack all cans.
I'm not sure its the best idea, but it'll increase the number of finished sites. |
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
143
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Posted - 2016.12.02 19:22:47 -
[16] - Quote
I always clean a site fully unless I'm killed when trying...
Period. |
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
804
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Posted - 2016.12.02 20:45:37 -
[17] - Quote
Who has time to cargo scan those sites? I put a warp scrambler on instead of a scanner.
@lunettelulu7
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
13247
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Posted - 2016.12.03 02:33:49 -
[18] - Quote
Graabeerd Khagah wrote:It will take time of course but seriously the leaving of sites uncompleted does no good even if the cans have junk in them. It shouldn't even take more than a minute to fail the sites so another one can respawn in it's place.
On the contrary: as SurrenderMonkey said, it slows you down, leaving other, juicier sites for us uncontested. Perhaps your tears may well fill one of these hacked cans of which you speak?
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3129
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Posted - 2016.12.03 07:40:05 -
[19] - Quote
I appreciate CCP Karkur's work but this comment is totally out of place and seeing a dev to express like a whiny carebear makes me angry, especially if the person in question has the actual power to just change it!
Stop complaining and insulting players, make the cans immune to cargo scanners, fixed.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
46154
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Posted - 2016.12.03 08:57:12 -
[20] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:I appreciate CCP Karkur's work but this comment is totally out of place and seeing a dev to express like a whiny carebear makes me angry, especially if the person in question has the actual power to just change it!
Stop complaining and insulting players, make the cans immune to cargo scanners, fixed. I don't read anything serious into her post.
She's always teasing (usually Doomchinchilla), having a joke or posting small bits from out of work.
Knowing her post history, I don't think it was a serious whine.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1682
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Posted - 2016.12.03 09:56:43 -
[21] - Quote
Regarding cherrypicking: i've been doing every site i find in a constellation just to get others to spawn and i'm wondering if these cargo scanners used by cherrypickers are very accurate. I've come across a few that have definitely been cherry-picked ( i know because i watched them do it while i was cloaked) and after killing the poor schmuck i hacked the cans left over just because. A few times i've scored faction pos mods and yummy things. Are can-scanners 100% accurate?
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3129
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Posted - 2016.12.03 14:35:45 -
[22] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:I appreciate CCP Karkur's work but this comment is totally out of place and seeing a dev to express like a whiny carebear makes me angry, especially if the person in question has the actual power to just change it!
Stop complaining and insulting players, make the cans immune to cargo scanners, fixed. I don't read anything serious into her post. She's always teasing (usually Doomchinchilla), having a joke or posting small bits from out of work. Knowing her post history, I don't think it was a serious whine. Maybe, but there was no mark (smiley, whatever) to indicate a pure troll post. Calling people using legal game mechanics psychopaths is not that funny ...
I'm my own NPC alt.
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2807
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Posted - 2016.12.03 16:50:25 -
[23] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:I appreciate CCP Karkur's work but this comment is totally out of place and seeing a dev to express like a whiny carebear makes me angry, especially if the person in question has the actual power to just change it!
Stop complaining and insulting players, make the cans immune to cargo scanners, fixed. I don't read anything serious into her post. She's always teasing (usually Doomchinchilla), having a joke or posting small bits from out of work. Knowing her post history, I don't think it was a serious whine. Maybe, but there was no mark (smiley, whatever) to indicate a pure troll post. Calling people using legal game mechanics psychopaths is not that funny ...
I bet you're fun at parties.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Satchel Darkmatter
Massive Dynamic inc. Care Factor
20
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Posted - 2016.12.03 23:33:05 -
[24] - Quote
Scanning a can with a cargo scanner should just trigger a timer and if the can is left over the timer duration it pops, sites would then automatically clean themselves up when players clean out the good loot.
Nice simple solution. |
Graabeerd Khagah
MoonFyre BattleGroup Holdings
174
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Posted - 2016.12.04 00:57:58 -
[25] - Quote
Hello again everyone,first of all thank you for being civil in this matter and keeping the discussion going. Secondly, this morning I caught the last ten minutes of the Talking in Station show with Matterall and this was mentioned that the situation has turned for the worse. Due to the fact that the thought was that the Alpha Clones were responsible for this situation. But, I don't know if this particular is true or not so I can't say
The question was asked if anybody ever found any sites in the last few days and many including myself responded with no, none, zilch. I am going to ask those of the WH community have you noticed any similar sites as well.
I am not going to sit here and accuse anyone of wrong doing, but seriously this is becoming an issue that needs to be looked at closer. I will ask that CCP Karkur to offer her ideas and thoughts as well to weigh in on the matter, and as for you the rest maybe offer other ideas as well.
Have a great weekend btw, but I will be checking this thread for any updates. 07. |
Moac Tor
Cyber Core Stain Confederation
742
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Posted - 2016.12.04 01:08:24 -
[26] - Quote
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:Nalia White wrote:i always asked myself why ccp made it possible to scan the content of cans. if they would dissalow it this wouldn't be a problem and the sense of wonder for explorers would be even bigger :) Agreed. --Gadget Actually, it makes the hacking game much more interesting when you know there is a couple 100 mil + in a can.
There are plenty of good reasons for taking the good loot and leaving all the junk cans.
And why would an explorer be interested in making more sites spawn for their competition, therefore devaluing the loot rewards. People forget that this is still a PvP game even when doing PvE activities.
This just sounds like QQ from people that choose to not adapt and fit a cargo scanner to their exploration setups.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
501
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Posted - 2016.12.04 08:56:05 -
[27] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:Nalia White wrote:i always asked myself why ccp made it possible to scan the content of cans. if they would dissalow it this wouldn't be a problem and the sense of wonder for explorers would be even bigger :) Agreed. --Gadget Actually, it makes the hacking game much more interesting when you know there is a couple 100 mil + in a can. There are plenty of good reasons for taking the good loot and leaving all the junk cans. And why would an explorer be interested in making more sites spawn for their competition, therefore devaluing the loot rewards. People forget that this is still a PvP game even when doing PvE activities. This just sounds like QQ from people that choose to not adapt and fit a cargo scanner to their exploration setups.
Personally, I think it's more interesting when you don't know what's in each can. It actually lends to sense of ... y'know... exploration.
I'm quite sure there are good reasons for taking the loot and leaving trash. They've already been posted...
The loot isn't getting devalued by cleaning up the site. They expire in an hour or so anyway. As for the PVP... making the cans unscannable can only entice more PVP due to more time spent in a site.
Think there might be something wrong with your hearing. I only posted a single word...
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
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Geronimo McVain
EVE University Ivy League
258
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Posted - 2016.12.04 10:26:41 -
[28] - Quote
Just make the cans unscannable and it solves the problem. |
Violet Hurst
Fedaya Recon
129
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Posted - 2016.12.04 10:56:23 -
[29] - Quote
I'd like to add that cherrypicking or even deliberately leaving sites unfinished is in my opinion a legit way of gaining an advantage over other explorers in the same chain as you. If you're lucky you might be able to make the other guy scan down an additional signature and do an additional warp. When we're talking about exploration fit ships, this might be one of the few advantages the racial covops frigates have over the Astero: They scan and warp faster. Given the Astero's superiority over covops frigates in pretty much every other aspect, I don't think it needs a buff. |
Infrequent
Mass Collapse It Must Be Jelly Cause Jam Don't Shake
100
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Posted - 2016.12.04 14:44:12 -
[30] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:Nalia White wrote:i always asked myself why ccp made it possible to scan the content of cans. if they would dissalow it this wouldn't be a problem and the sense of wonder for explorers would be even bigger :) Agreed. --Gadget Actually, it makes the hacking game much more interesting when you know there is a couple 100 mil + in a can. There are plenty of good reasons for taking the good loot and leaving all the junk cans. And why would an explorer be interested in making more sites spawn for their competition, therefore devaluing the loot rewards. People forget that this is still a PvP game even when doing PvE activities. This just sounds like QQ from people that choose to not adapt and fit a cargo scanner to their exploration setups.
Because if you have all of the explorers 'adapt' then suddenly you have constellations full of unfinished sites with fresh ones spawning hourly instead of every few minutes. If you're doing your exploration in a constellation that forces you to adapt a pseudo 'PvP' tactic into your PvE because there's so many exploreres that you MUST compete, then you're doing exploration wrong, your choice of constellation is poor and you should perhaps take the risk and go to less saturated, more dangerous space, there's more than enough space in this game that is unused because people stick to their safe space instead of taking that risk. |
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