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High Return Bonds. Is there any interest?

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Trilori Caldari Gearbox Fleet Svc	Posted - 2007.04.12 02:16:00 - [31] alright say you issue bonds, they pay you and all that. How do you make money? I'm assuming you're buying BPOs, manufacturing ships, whatever and the profit you get from that pays the interest? There are at least two more threads similar to this their ideas are different but its the same thing... they want you to invest your iskies so they can buy the stuff and then hand it back to you with interest. Banks don't go out making cars and pick up crude oil and refine it themselves and stick it in their car and reselling it and saying "ok here we made money now here's your interest" Banks make money off of interests and give interests FROM other high yield interests. So if you are issuing loans say at 10% you would be able to issue interest to bond holders at say 4-6% and you'd still have 4% left to yourself for whatever purposes. I have several CDs they aren't high interest, they're yielding 4-6% depending on how long they are. They turn around with that money and issue loans at the higher interest rate say 8-12% so somewhere in there they've made money NOT to mention service fees (explained below) Everytime you request a loan and IF approved and you ACCEPT the loan they charge you a fee usually its wrapped into the loan and you pay interest on it which sucks especially in mortgage loans you pay big time FEES for brokers, title and the LOAN ITSELF (and taxes if you include the taxes in it as some people do that).
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2007.04.12 02:33:00 - [32] Originally by: Trilori alright say you issue bonds, they pay you and all that. How do you make money? I'm assuming you're buying BPOs, manufacturing ships, whatever and the profit you get from that pays the interest? There are at least two more threads similar to this their ideas are different but its the same thing... they want you to invest your iskies so they can buy the stuff and then hand it back to you with interest. Yes... that's why it's called in investment scheme. You're investing in someone else's moneymaking scheme. Banks have nothing to do with it and real life comparisons don't always work in eve. Additionally, there aren't two more threads similar to this, there are two thousand more threads similar to this. Shares and IPOs are nothing new to eve. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Ionia Advanced Manufacturing	Posted - 2007.04.12 02:41:00 - [33] Originally by: Trilori alright say you issue bonds, they pay you and all that. How do you make money? I'm assuming you're buying BPOs, manufacturing ships, whatever and the profit you get from that pays the interest? There are at least two more threads similar to this their ideas are different but its the same thing... they want you to invest your iskies so they can buy the stuff and then hand it back to you with interest. Banks don't go out making cars and pick up crude oil and refine it themselves and stick it in their car and reselling it and saying "ok here we made money now here's your interest" Banks make money off of interests and give interests FROM other high yield interests. So if you are issuing loans say at 10% you would be able to issue interest to bond holders at say 4-6% and you'd still have 4% left to yourself for whatever purposes. I have several CDs they aren't high interest, they're yielding 4-6% depending on how long they are. They turn around with that money and issue loans at the higher interest rate say 8-12% so somewhere in there they've made money NOT to mention service fees (explained below) Everytime you request a loan and IF approved and you ACCEPT the loan they charge you a fee usually its wrapped into the loan and you pay interest on it which sucks especially in mortgage loans you pay big time FEES for brokers, title and the LOAN ITSELF (and taxes if you include the taxes in it as some people do that). I make money primarily from production and trading. The reason I want a setup like this rather than a regular share issue is that I want control of my business. I want to be able to use the isk in various ways without having to justify it, and I also want to provide investors with a safe, stable return. My current income is more than enough to cover the interest on the number of bonds I plan to issue, so I dont forsee any issues with making the payments, even if what I invest in with the bond capital is a total failure (not that it is likely to be, I don't take on risky kinds of ventures). Another reason I prefer this model to shares is that many of the things I do involve a level of 'trade secret' type information, which means I would either have to disclose to my competitors my data, or have restricted communication with shareholders, neither of which I want to do. If I was planning on using the isk for a single, standard venture, I would use a share model instead.
Trilori Caldari Gearbox Fleet Svc	Posted - 2007.04.12 02:51:00 - [34] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Trilori alright say you issue bonds, they pay you and all that. How do you make money? I'm assuming you're buying BPOs, manufacturing ships, whatever and the profit you get from that pays the interest? There are at least two more threads similar to this their ideas are different but its the same thing... they want you to invest your iskies so they can buy the stuff and then hand it back to you with interest. Yes... that's why it's called in investment scheme. You're investing in someone else's moneymaking scheme. Banks have nothing to do with it and real life comparisons don't always work in eve. Additionally, there aren't two more threads similar to this, there are two thousand more threads similar to this. Shares and IPOs are nothing new to eve. banks do have everything to do with it, they do it too its just a "legal" scam and setup with federal laws to govern it. Now if you're referring to ponzi scheme thats another issue but follows the same idea. And I know and understand that RL principles and tactics can't really be put to EVE use unfortunately. I don't know of any MMO that has a stock market, a bank, and a full buyer/seller economy that works similar to EVE. And lastly I dig, I know there's tons of threads but I"m referring to the MOST recent ones aka HYP and "do you want growth" I believe Ionia's setup would work better just have to iron out what can be done and can't be done and set the boundaries based on the limitations.
DragonRiderTao	Posted - 2007.04.12 02:58:00 - [35] Originally by: Ionia I make money primarily from production and trading. The reason I want a setup like this rather than a regular share issue is that I want control of my business. I want to be able to use the isk in various ways without having to justify it, and I also want to provide investors with a safe, stable return. My current income is more than enough to cover the interest on the number of bonds I plan to issue, so I dont forsee any issues with making the payments, even if what I invest in with the bond capital is a total failure (not that it is likely to be, I don't take on risky kinds of ventures). Another reason I prefer this model to shares is that many of the things I do involve a level of 'trade secret' type information, which means I would either have to disclose to my competitors my data, or have restricted communication with shareholders, neither of which I want to do. If I was planning on using the isk for a single, standard venture, I would use a share model instead. I am in the exact same situation. Same idea with production and trading. How many dragons can you slay? You cant slay mine.
Trilori Caldari Gearbox Fleet Svc	Posted - 2007.04.12 03:24:00 - [36] Originally by: DragonRiderTao Originally by: Ionia I make money primarily from production and trading. The reason I want a setup like this rather than a regular share issue is that I want control of my business. I want to be able to use the isk in various ways without having to justify it, and I also want to provide investors with a safe, stable return. My current income is more than enough to cover the interest on the number of bonds I plan to issue, so I dont forsee any issues with making the payments, even if what I invest in with the bond capital is a total failure (not that it is likely to be, I don't take on risky kinds of ventures). Another reason I prefer this model to shares is that many of the things I do involve a level of 'trade secret' type information, which means I would either have to disclose to my competitors my data, or have restricted communication with shareholders, neither of which I want to do. If I was planning on using the isk for a single, standard venture, I would use a share model instead. I am in the exact same situation. Same idea with production and trading. mmmhmm trolling too.
Trilori Caldari Gearbox Fleet Svc	Posted - 2007.04.12 03:30:00 - [37] well I have a couple other ideas... are you considering buying/selling secured loans? Many real world companies do this, it would be difficult to keep track of making sure that when you buy the loan from a lender that the debtor knows that the payments are to be paid to a new lender. This is a good way to make money off of loans back and forth, I still somehow would like to see unsecured loans the only problem is that there is no collateral for loss in defaults. However knowing this, the debtor would never be able to get a loan from you and possibly from several others you do business with who are also in the business of offering loans. These loans would need to be small, not large amounts. OTOH unsecured loans you might as well throw away your money and never expect it back and just give it to them anyway.
Ionia Advanced Manufacturing	Posted - 2007.04.12 03:54:00 - [38] Originally by: Trilori well I have a couple other ideas... are you considering buying/selling secured loans? Many real world companies do this, it would be difficult to keep track of making sure that when you buy the loan from a lender that the debtor knows that the payments are to be paid to a new lender. This is a good way to make money off of loans back and forth, I still somehow would like to see unsecured loans the only problem is that there is no collateral for loss in defaults. However knowing this, the debtor would never be able to get a loan from you and possibly from several others you do business with who are also in the business of offering loans. These loans would need to be small, not large amounts. OTOH unsecured loans you might as well throw away your money and never expect it back and just give it to them anyway. This isnt really the type of thing I had in mind. After a few very helpful in-game discussions, I think I have found a model that works well and is simple to understand. Im going to write it up and start getting it reviewed.
Klasanov	Posted - 2007.04.12 04:38:00 - [39] Originally by: Trilori banks do have everything to do with it, they do it too its just a "legal" scam and setup with federal laws to govern it. Banks are not a "legal scam". Aside from the fact that's a rather silly and impossible oxymoron, banks take your money and keep it safe while investing it loans that pay higher yields and assuming all the risk that goes with it. If you loan Starbucks 50,000 dollars, and they default, you're out that money. If a bank loans them that money, and Starbucks defaults, the money you have in your bank account is still safe, unless the bank fails, which can happen if they either do poorly or too many people withdraw too much too quick and the bank can't back the dollar, which happened during the great depression, IIRC. Even if the bank does fail, however, you're still insured by the government up to 100,000 dollars. What you need to be doing is taking the money out of CDs and into a money-market. They yield about the same percent as a CD and the cash is totally liquid, as well. While you aren't insured by the FDIC with a money-market, they are nonetheless unbelievably safe (only about two have failed in their history, and I believe one of those was a private one made by a few banks). And also, this has nothing to do with banks, because you, as an individual, are legal to buy or sell bonds yourself, bypassing the need for a bank (You assume the risk for a higher ROI). The economy in Eve is just a little different sometimes, than the real world.
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2007.04.12 14:37:00 - [40] Originally by: Trilori banks do have everything to do with it, they do it too its just a "legal" scam and setup with federal laws to govern it. No, really, stop trolling. This thread is a speculation on high return bonds, banks have nothing to do with this and banks in real life are not legalised scams. You're crazy. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Caroglac Amarr The Arrow Project The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2007.04.12 23:44:00 - [41] I run a private business that works very similar to what Ionna is proposing... baring a scam... Id say this is a good investment. we may haveto rethink our interest rates if this business turns out to not be a scam... damn compitition :) btw our current rates are 3% per 36 day on "clams" fully liquid isk... and 9% per 36 day on "oysters" the difference is clams can be withdrawn emediatly at any time while oysters must be transfered to clams to be withdrawn and the transfer is automated and takes 14 days :) Cap Ship Sales
Ionia Advanced Manufacturing	Posted - 2007.04.13 01:36:00 - [42] Originally by: Caroglac I run a private business that works very similar to what Ionna is proposing... baring a scam... Id say this is a good investment. we may haveto rethink our interest rates if this business turns out to not be a scam... damn compitition :) btw our current rates are 3% per 36 day on "clams" fully liquid isk... and 9% per 36 day on "oysters" the difference is clams can be withdrawn emediatly at any time while oysters must be transfered to clams to be withdrawn and the transfer is automated and takes 14 days :) We are going to be offering quite different products really, yours are very short term and mine will be much longer.
Caroglac Amarr The Arrow Project The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2007.04.13 01:51:00 - [43] actualy my products are open ended :) IE you could put isk into them and just leave it there forever... we have a few members with 10b isk or more in there accounts who just pvp full time living off the interest income. Cap Ship Sales
Ionia Advanced Manufacturing	Posted - 2007.04.13 02:02:00 - [44] Originally by: Caroglac actualy my products are open ended :) IE you could put isk into them and just leave it there forever... we have a few members with 10b isk or more in there accounts who just pvp full time living off the interest income. get online, want to chat :p
Trilori Caldari Gearbox Fleet Svc	Posted - 2007.04.13 06:00:00 - [45] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Trilori banks do have everything to do with it, they do it too its just a "legal" scam and setup with federal laws to govern it. No, really, stop trolling. This thread is a speculation on high return bonds, banks have nothing to do with this and banks in real life are not legalised scams. You're crazy. I think you have the wrong person trolling, anyway banks do more than just issue bonds and CDs and loans but the idea is the same you issue someone an 8% loan and someone buys a CD at 4% they still make profit the ponzi scheme is supposed to work something like this.
Klasanov	Posted - 2007.04.13 06:55:00 - [46] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that involves paying abnormally high returns ("profits") to investors out of the money paid in by subsequent investors, rather than from net revenues generated by any real business, named after Charles Ponzi.
DragonRiderTao	Posted - 2007.04.14 17:29:00 - [47] Originally by: Klasanov http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that involves paying abnormally high returns ("profits") to investors out of the money paid in by subsequent investors, rather than from net revenues generated by any real business, named after Charles Ponzi. That doesn't describe the loaning model outlined here at all. How many dragons can you slay? You cant slay mine.
Kim McCormack BIG	Posted - 2007.04.14 19:20:00 - [48] Originally by: DragonRiderTao That doesn't describe the loaning model outlined here at all. He was refering to the post directly above his. And how would you describe your 'loaning model', by the way?
Ionia Advanced Manufacturing	Posted - 2007.04.14 19:29:00 - [49] wow, nice to see this thread still on track </sarcasm>
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2007.04.14 19:47:00 - [50] Originally by: Trilori I think you have the wrong person trolling, anyway banks do more than just issue bonds and CDs and loans but the idea is the same you issue someone an 8% loan and someone buys a CD at 4% they still make profit the ponzi scheme is supposed to work something like this. It doesn't and you're crazy. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
DragonRiderTao	Posted - 2007.04.14 20:50:00 - [51] Originally by: Kim McCormack Originally by: DragonRiderTao That doesn't describe the loaning model outlined here at all. He was refering to the post directly above his. And how would you describe your 'loaning model', by the way? Last I looked this thread is not about any scheme. All you big timers look at 10-15% profits and yell SCAM. The fact is until us little guys get into the big time trading like you guys we can make 10-15% on the small stuff. There just isn't enough volume of the little stuff to make it any profitable when you have 100's of thousands of isk to invest. Billions for most of you. So throw us a bone ! How many dragons can you slay? You cant slay mine.
Ionia Advanced Manufacturing	Posted - 2007.04.14 21:13:00 - [52] Originally by: DragonRiderTao Originally by: Kim McCormack Originally by: DragonRiderTao That doesn't describe the loaning model outlined here at all. He was refering to the post directly above his. And how would you describe your 'loaning model', by the way? Last I looked this thread is not about any scheme. All you big timers look at 10-15% profits and yell SCAM. The fact is until us little guys get into the big time trading like you guys we can make 10-15% on the small stuff. There just isn't enough volume of the little stuff to make it any profitable when you have 100's of thousands of isk to invest. Billions for most of you. So throw us a bone ! small timer? speak for yourself :p

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