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Applying more timers to combat log off tactics and farmers

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Thread Winner Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.04.09 03:59:00 - [1] I've been having a little problem with anti farmer combat. Now we all know about them logging off once you enter the system and logging on an npc corp alt to watch to see if your still in the system. I have tried many a thing to catch these guys. I have put them in a false sense of security by remaining afk cloaked all day in the system they farm. Before I want to trigger them into logging off I drop a 5au probe and jump in on my main. once he logs my alt probes him out and finds his location, but once I warp to the location he's gone. Does the 15 minute aggression timer still apply in 0.0? If so why is his raven gone in less than two? In the event that there is no longer an aggression timer this is what I propose. (This can combat logoff tactics when cornering some one as well) A 2 minute timer applied each time you warp. A 15 minute timer applied each time you activate a stargate. A 15 minute timer applied for aggression of any sort (if non existant in 0.0) And the removal of the using an alt to make your ship disappear trick. What does this change? It allows for the destruction of isk farmers and those who speed into your space and log off to avoid being destroyed. What do you think?
Kramer Verone Amarr	Posted - 2007.04.09 17:04:00 - [2] it's real easy CCP when one character of an account has aggro, he can log off unsafely, but another character cannot log on until the previous character's aggro runs out a little timer on the log on screen would be nice :)
Makoto Kasomyuki	Posted - 2007.04.10 18:11:00 - [3] Do we have any non game altering ways to get these guys. I've been hunting them (0.0 insta-logging macro ratters) myself and would like some tactics. Ever since Can shooting went poot then I can't catch'em.
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2007.04.10 18:15:00 - [4] Originally by: Thread Winner It allows for the destruction of isk farmers and those who speed into your space and log off to avoid being destroyed. I'd really like you to define "ISK farmer"... --- I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment.
Thread Winner Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.04.10 20:08:00 - [5] Originally by: Grey Area Originally by: Thread Winner It allows for the destruction of isk farmers and those who speed into your space and log off to avoid being destroyed. I'd really like you to define "ISK farmer"... Supposed Isk Sellers. The Jin Mei Characters that always just so happen to log once you enter the system and log on with an alt every 15-30 min to scout. Fight against log off tactics to protect your space from isk farmers!
Del Narveux Obsidian Angels Enterprises	Posted - 2007.04.11 10:25:00 - [6] Originally by: Kramer Verone it's real easy CCP when one character of an account has aggro, he can log off unsafely, but another character cannot log on until the previous character's aggro runs out a little timer on the log on screen would be nice :) This wont do anything. The very nature of farmers is they have lots of accounts, so using one to scout (and maybe also provide a front for their transactions) wouldnt affect them very much. _________________ [SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? Originally by: Wrangler Well, at least we have forum PvP..
Dirk Fallows Caldari Galley-la	Posted - 2007.04.11 10:49:00 - [7] Edited by: Dirk Fallows on 11/04/2007 10:45:55 If I understand it correctly you know his position just before he logs? If so, how about you 1) Go to that location with your main in something that's much more agile than a raven (ie af, cruiser sized or inertia stabbed bs). 2) Add the name of the macro and the macro scout to the addressbook of an alt stationed far away 3) Log off with your main 4) Log on with your main BUT stay in the character selection screen. Keep it alive by clicking on different chars every minute or so. 5) Once you see the macro log on, log on as well (you get an early alert by seeing the scout log on first). 6) You should arrive on top of him. Ofc, he logs, but as he does that he probably needs to make a slooow turn. You've got him. Once you fire a shot off at him, he's yours for 15 minutes. I doubt you can scramble him (probably stabbed to death to avoid getting popped because npc scrambled him), but once he's flagged, he will stay still at the logoff point. Basically a solo version of the logonski. I didn't quite get it from your description, but did you activate any module on him (guns/ew/etc, and you don't need to hit)?. If you didn't, there's no logoff timer. If you did, there's a 15 minute logoff timer. --edit: agile, not speedy
William Hamilton	Posted - 2007.04.11 11:09:00 - [8] I wish the 15 min timer was always on, and got reset when someone entered the same grid as you. Mabye attempt a "new" emergency warp 30 seconds after someone enters grid with you.
Thread Winner Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.04.11 15:50:00 - [9] Originally by: Dirk Fallows Edited by: Dirk Fallows on 11/04/2007 10:45:55 If I understand it correctly you know his position just before he logs? If so, how about you 1) Go to that location with your main in something that's much more agile than a raven (ie af, cruiser sized or inertia stabbed bs). 2) Add the name of the macro and the macro scout to the addressbook of an alt stationed far away 3) Log off with your main 4) Log on with your main BUT stay in the character selection screen. Keep it alive by clicking on different chars every minute or so. 5) Once you see the macro log on, log on as well (you get an early alert by seeing the scout log on first). 6) You should arrive on top of him. Ofc, he logs, but as he does that he probably needs to make a slooow turn. You've got him. Once you fire a shot off at him, he's yours for 15 minutes. I doubt you can scramble him (probably stabbed to death to avoid getting popped because npc scrambled him), but once he's flagged, he will stay still at the logoff point. Basically a solo version of the logonski. I didn't quite get it from your description, but did you activate any module on him (guns/ew/etc, and you don't need to hit)?. If you didn't, there's no logoff timer. If you did, there's a 15 minute logoff timer. --edit: agile, not speedy I have a covops alt that stays in the system A8A-JN that the macroer roams. He stays there cloaked 24/7 and the macroer comes out and rats away. I enter the system on my main to make him ctrl+q and the instant he does that I probe him out but when I get to his log off point he's gone and his damn alt is watching me in the system now. Not as easy as you make it seem trust me Fight against log off tactics to protect your space from isk farmers!
Dirk Fallows Caldari Galley-la	Posted - 2007.04.11 16:20:00 - [10] Originally by: Thread Winner Originally by: Dirk Fallows I didn't quite get it from your description, but did you activate any module on him (guns/ew/etc, and you don't need to hit)?. If you didn't, there's no logoff timer. If you did, there's a 15 minute logoff timer. I have a covops alt that stays in the system A8A-JN that the macroer roams. He stays there cloaked 24/7 and the macroer comes out and rats away. I enter the system on my main to make him ctrl+q and the instant he does that I probe him out but when I get to his log off point he's gone and his damn alt is watching me in the system now. Not as easy as you make it seem trust me Didn't say it was easy, just possible Like I said, you need to log off your main at the point he will jump back to. Ie, the place where he pressed ctrl-q. Another way is to fire a shot at him with your covert alt, or sensor dampen him, ANYTHING. I recommend the latter and then cloak again when he can't lock you. Since he will then have engaged in PvP in the last 15 minutes, he will NOT disappear immediately after reaching the logoff point with you having no way of scanning him out. Ie, you will have NO problem scanning him if you manage to do that. He will sit perfectly still with no modules activated and wait while you pound him to bits. Not sure if you'll be able to get the pod without an interdictor though. Since he won't be shooting back, just use an interdictor and bubble him Voila - crFme macro

Ryysa North Face Force Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.04.11 16:25:00 - [11] Originally by: Dirk Fallows Once you fire a shot off at him, he's yours for 15 minutes. You couldn't be more wrong. If you fire a shot at him when he is logged off, he doesn't get the 15 minute timer. That is in need of serious fixing, and the only issue atm imo. N.F.F. Recruitment
Dirk Fallows Caldari Galley-la	Posted - 2007.04.11 16:42:00 - [12] Originally by: Ryysa Originally by: Dirk Fallows Once you fire a shot off at him, he's yours for 15 minutes. You couldn't be more wrong. If you fire a shot at him when he is logged off, he doesn't get the 15 minute timer. That is in need of serious fixing, and the only issue atm imo. Ouch. Didn't know that, and I defintly agree. The second path (using the covert ops to aggro him) could still work. Unless he has enough time to log off when the covert uncloaks.
Thread Winner Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.04.11 16:46:00 - [13] This isn't just about farmers. This is about log off tactics in general guys. Fight against log off tactics to protect your space from isk farmers!
Danari Amarr Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.04.11 23:39:00 - [14] I've been on both sides of the pvp timer and I just don't know how this can be fixed. I do know that logging while cloaked after jumping in needs to be fixed. It's a pathetic save-my-ship mechanic with no excuse to exist. However, in a case of probing vs. safe spot jumping, at some point if a stalemate can be assumed then the pilot should be able to log. So even if a reasonable-sounding 5 minutes before disappearing from space timer anytime a module is activated, the farmer is just going to hop safespots until that timer expires and then log.
Thread Winner Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.04.12 02:20:00 - [15] Originally by: Danari I've been on both sides of the pvp timer and I just don't know how this can be fixed. I do know that logging while cloaked after jumping in needs to be fixed. It's a pathetic save-my-ship mechanic with no excuse to exist. However, in a case of probing vs. safe spot jumping, at some point if a stalemate can be assumed then the pilot should be able to log. So even if a reasonable-sounding 5 minutes before disappearing from space timer anytime a module is activated, the farmer is just going to hop safespots until that timer expires and then log. 2 minute timer applied to your last warp. If you warp you have a 2 minute timer applied. If you warp again the timer is negated and a new one is applied. Fight against log off tactics to protect your space from isk farmers!
Dirk Fallows Caldari Galley-la	Posted - 2007.04.12 06:06:00 - [16] Originally by: Danari I've been on both sides of the pvp timer and I just don't know how this can be fixed. I do know that logging while cloaked after jumping in needs to be fixed. It's a pathetic save-my-ship mechanic with no excuse to exist. I think they fixed it in the last patch. I think I saw it in a patch note. Originally by: Danari However, in a case of probing vs. safe spot jumping, at some point if a stalemate can be assumed then the pilot should be able to log. So even if a reasonable-sounding 5 minutes before disappearing from space timer anytime a module is activated, the farmer is just going to hop safespots until that timer expires and then log. That's much more work, but sure, it's possible.
Dirk Fallows Caldari Galley-la	Posted - 2007.04.12 06:08:00 - [17] Originally by: Thread Winner Originally by: Danari I've been on both sides of the pvp timer and I just don't know how this can be fixed. I do know that logging while cloaked after jumping in needs to be fixed. It's a pathetic save-my-ship mechanic with no excuse to exist. However, in a case of probing vs. safe spot jumping, at some point if a stalemate can be assumed then the pilot should be able to log. So even if a reasonable-sounding 5 minutes before disappearing from space timer anytime a module is activated, the farmer is just going to hop safespots until that timer expires and then log. 2 minute timer applied to your last warp. If you warp you have a 2 minute timer applied. If you warp again the timer is negated and a new one is applied. That would make it very unbalanced in the favour of the attacker. Basically, you could never logg off in low-sec or 0.0 unless in a station because you don't know if someone jumps through the gate after you've logged even if you're alone in the system.
Thread Winner Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.04.12 09:57:00 - [18] Originally by: Dirk Fallows Originally by: Thread Winner Originally by: Danari I've been on both sides of the pvp timer and I just don't know how this can be fixed. I do know that logging while cloaked after jumping in needs to be fixed. It's a pathetic save-my-ship mechanic with no excuse to exist. However, in a case of probing vs. safe spot jumping, at some point if a stalemate can be assumed then the pilot should be able to log. So even if a reasonable-sounding 5 minutes before disappearing from space timer anytime a module is activated, the farmer is just going to hop safespots until that timer expires and then log. 2 minute timer applied to your last warp. If you warp you have a 2 minute timer applied. If you warp again the timer is negated and a new one is applied. That would make it very unbalanced in the favour of the attacker. Basically, you could never logg off in low-sec or 0.0 unless in a station because you don't know if someone jumps through the gate after you've logged even if you're alone in the system. But with it Log Off tactics disapeer. Have you ever chased some one into a corner system to only have them log off? its things like that that need to go Fight against log off tactics to protect your space from isk farmers!
Elgar Lightfoot Lightfoot Industries	Posted - 2007.04.12 11:07:00 - [19] The only thing thats needed (I think) is a lock to prevent you logging on an Alt to force a log out. You log out with a timer. Attempt to log on an Alt. Message pops up...Unable to access due to a Logout timer on XXX
Clarena	Posted - 2007.04.17 00:03:00 - [20] So why is it that "logonski" is ok, but "logoffski" is not? Seems to me that they are simply 2 sides of the same coin/tactic. If one is ok, then by that very virtue, the other is ok too. In fact I believe I've seen that very thing argued in this forum a few months ago... A much better proposal would be to just get rid of local-chat - either make it that you only show up once you've spoken, or get rid of it completely. That way, these so called "isk farmers" or just plain "people I want to kill" will not be aware of your presence! Hunting suddenly became a whole lot more tactical!

Ryo Jang Central Defiance Terror In The System	Posted - 2007.06.04 09:36:00 - [21] please, please, CCP PLEASE fix this! over the last month or 2, i have personally lost out on the following kills because they logged before we could agress them: 1x freighter (which subsequently logged on and off until it was 5Mkm away) 2x farmer ravens at a gate multiple farmer ravens in belts lastly, and this happened just now, 1x farmer raven who had just killed an estemels officer, and logged as soon as i entered system. i saw the wreck, it was empty, and he was the only one in system. i have spent hours waiting for him to log on, while he sends multiple alts (i counted 5, some talked to me in broken english) through the system, to see if i was still there. i managed to trick him once, and scanned down the spot he warped to after he logged, lol. its all but impossible.
marie blueprint	Posted - 2007.12.11 02:41:00 - [22] i love it when pirats whine lol


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