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Ahz
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Posted - 2007.04.09 19:24:00 -
[1]
Just going through the stats of the Jaguar versus the Thrasher, I've got to wonder why more people don't fly destroyers. They're pretty small and fast. With tech II gear they've got to hit harder than the assault ships. In the overview during fleet battle they show up like a frigate. And they cost a fraction of what the assault ships cost.
Anywone else like the destroyers, or think I'm missing something big?
Thanks
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madaluap
Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.04.09 19:25:00 -
[2]
Edited by: madaluap on 09/04/2007 19:23:26 trasher = 700k 1 T2 gun = 500k
Think that is a reason, also they are slower and allthough they have a bit more hp than a AF, the resistances on a AF make up for that. That said: AF are crap aswell (talking pvp here). _________________________________________________ Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
Maeltstome
Minmatar Eve Defence Force Pure.
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Posted - 2007.04.09 19:28:00 -
[3]
My jag with 1 LSE took out 2 destroyers and never dropped below 80% shield, even when flying directly at them.
Destroyers recieve a nerf to ROF, so the damage bonus they get isn't that important... it's jsut an alpha strike bonus. The resistances on assault frigs far outclass the extra turrets that destroyers get.
Destroyers, for pvp, suck. (unless ofc you get a t1 frigate sitting at 500m off you when you have a web and 7 close range weapons...)
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Dahak2150
Chaos Monkeys
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Posted - 2007.04.09 19:30:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Dahak2150 on 09/04/2007 19:27:38 In some respects you are right. Tin cans do step on the toes of the assault frigs (or vice versa, depending on your bias) in that they are both dedicated frigate killers. When comparing the Harpy and the Cormorant they are extremely similar.
However, the assault frigates are much more survivable. I would take my Retribution or Vengeance over a Coercer any day, as destroyers have a life expectancy of the snowflake in hell if something looks at them. Additionally, some assault frigs have different roles/weapons than the destroyers. Ishkur and Hawk are good examples.
Finally, while the Enyo and Catalyst are both used as railboats, the Enyo is a much more attractive option, and it can be used in a blaster role much better than a Catalyst. ----------------
If you're on IE, pretend this is transparent while you get a browser that supports .png. |
madaluap
Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.04.09 19:32:00 -
[5]
Edited by: madaluap on 09/04/2007 19:29:42
Originally by: Maeltstome My jag with 1 LSE took out 2 destroyers and never dropped below 80% shield, even when flying directly at them.
Destroyers recieve a nerf to ROF, so the damage bonus they get isn't that important... it's jsut an alpha strike bonus. The resistances on assault frigs far outclass the extra turrets that destroyers get.
Destroyers, for pvp, suck. (unless ofc you get a t1 frigate sitting at 500m off you when you have a web and 7 close range weapons...)
Well thats not true. And using "i did this examples wont help". Else this:
Victim: *** Alliance: None Corp: *** Destroyed: Harpy System: Maut Security: 0.2
Involved parties:
Name: madaluap (laid the final blow) Security: -0.7 Alliance: None Corp: Mercenary Forces Ship: Thrasher Weapon: 150mm Light AutoCannon II
Would be the standard
/edit: can post caracal and vexor kill aswell using the trasher _________________________________________________ Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
Maeltstome
Minmatar Eve Defence Force Pure.
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Posted - 2007.04.09 19:38:00 -
[6]
EM ammo + web. I jsut said that. at close range th guns can help, however i'd like to see you get anywhere near doing that to a wolf.
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Marquis Dean
The Last Thing You'll Ever See
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Posted - 2007.04.09 19:47:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Maeltstome My jag with 1 LSE
Orly?
--- Indigo Fade is now selling jumpclones for superb prices, please see Marquis Dean's bio and/or evemail/convo him ingame.
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Maeltstome
Minmatar Eve Defence Force Pure.
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Posted - 2007.04.09 19:52:00 -
[8]
MSE - i'll edit it now :p
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Crazy Tasty
Beyond Divinity Inc Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.09 19:59:00 -
[9]
As stated above, AF's are much more survivable than a destroyer. However, when used right a destroyer can take out pretty much an frigate in the game. With a cormorant I have killed ceptors, bombers, and AF's, you just have to use them in the right way and target the other ships weakness. I think thrashers are nice just because for the damage bonus, I've seen them one volly ceptors with ease.
AF's main bonus is the ability to take on a larger ship class and not explode when it looks at them funny. For PvP in any serious fashion I'd fly a AF or ceptor, just my opinion.
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6Bagheera9
Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.09 20:09:00 -
[10]
Destroyers have better alpha and great tracking, but AFs can tank far better and have comparable dps.
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Jotan Veer
Slaughterhouse
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Posted - 2007.04.09 20:32:00 -
[11]
The bigger sig radius and the lower resists make destroyers a lot more paper like than AFs.
I'm a destroyer freak but these days I rather fly a dictor. Why? Because the tactical niche of an anti-support papership is simply not that important/useful in gangs/fleet.
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Max Hardcase
Art of War Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.04.09 20:41:00 -
[12]
Destroyers have a couple of drawbacks that seem insignificant at first.
a) The sig radius, the lowest dessie has one of 75 x 5 = 375m Biggest is 5 x 90 = 450m. That means thats they are more than fair game to cruiser sized weapons and up with MWD, which do not give them the stellar speeds that enable frigs to outrun tracking by the way. Without MWD they're decent enough targets for cruiser sized weapons that the little extra HP over frigs means nothing.
b) The 3 au/s warp speed thing means thay you lag up frigate gangs so much that you might as well bring a cruiser. Destroyers deserve 4.5 au/s at least.
c) Low agility/speed compared to frigs.
d) Slot layout which is teh suck. They're neither here nor there where it comes to slot layout. The totality of Destroyer drawbacks are probably such that they warrant a more cruiser like med/low slot layout. They need a bit more versatilit than they have now.
Having said all this, Destroyers can be deadly if used correctly you just have a VERY tight rope to walk if you want to survive. I like mine for scrambling bigger stuff in fights. They also suffer from a very big infringement from Assault Frigs on their niche. For general survival I'd rather take an AF.
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Ghostshadow
Templars of Space CORE.
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Posted - 2007.04.09 22:38:00 -
[13]
Cormy can pop inties from 100km
____________________________________________ A * B = C A = Skill Points B = GPA C = a Constant. Guess what happens to B as A increases.
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Snikkt
Time Cube Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.04.09 22:42:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ghostshadow Cormy can pop inties from 100km
The Abaddon can be used as a nano-ship. ------------------- My opinions (ie, all of my posting here) are not my corporations. Nor should it be taken as such. |
VanNostrum
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Posted - 2007.04.09 22:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Snikkt
Originally by: Ghostshadow Cormy can pop inties from 100km
The Abaddon can be used as a nano-ship.
and let's not forget, Hulk can tank multiple BS
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VJ Maverick
Caldari Maverick Specialized Services
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Posted - 2007.04.09 22:51:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Max Hardcase Destroyers have a couple of drawbacks that seem insignificant at first.
a) The sig radius, the lowest dessie has one of 75 x 5 = 375m Biggest is 5 x 90 = 450m.
MWD multiplies your sig radius by 6, not 5, so these figures are even larger. Way too big of a target for my taste - and with crap resists, too. AF all the way.
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar RONA Deepspace
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Posted - 2007.04.09 22:56:00 -
[17]
One is a t2 ship.........the other is t1.
so by that logic you need skillz to beat a af in a destroyer.
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2007.04.09 23:50:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ahz Anywone else like the destroyers, or think I'm missing something big?
"Something big" is exactly what you're missing:
Thrasher sig radius with Med Shield Extender = 82m Jaguar sig radius with Med Shield Extender = 41m
Thrasher is easier to hit and takes more damage than Jaguar under the same fire, yet has no extra hit points and only standard resists.
-- Guile can always trump hardware -- |
Marquis Dean
The Last Thing You'll Ever See
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Posted - 2007.04.09 23:53:00 -
[19]
Originally by: VJ Maverick MWD multiplies your sig radius by 6, not 5, so these figures are even larger. Way too big of a target for my taste - and with crap resists, too. AF all the way.
It depends on the MWD being used. You really ought to have known that.
--- Indigo Fade is now selling jumpclones for superb prices, please see Marquis Dean's bio and/or evemail/convo him ingame.
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LinBadar
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.04.09 23:54:00 -
[20]
Fitting close range on a thrasher makes baby jesus cry salty tears of insatiable sadness.
This ship truly shines with a rack of t2 280s, tremor, sensor boosters and dmg mods.
very situation and role specific class of ship but when used in this role it's quite effective, especially for a cheap t1 ship.
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Ahz
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Posted - 2007.04.10 00:11:00 -
[21]
Originally by: LinBadar Fitting close range on a thrasher makes baby jesus cry salty tears of insatiable sadness.
This ship truly shines with a rack of t2 280s, tremor, sensor boosters and dmg mods.
very situation and role specific class of ship but when used in this role it's quite effective, especially for a cheap t1 ship.
It was privateers blasting haulers in Jita with exactly this setup that got me thinking. But for now I'm thinking that these ships perform different combat roles.
Anyone ever use destroyers to pop drones or fighters?
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Redglare's Demise
Shih Yang Tong
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Posted - 2007.04.10 00:15:00 -
[22]
Alot dessie pilots are new players, usually under a week old.
Which leads to many stories such as "I killed 10 at once with my pvp fitted whatever"
I recall killing a couple in a punisher while still on trial.
Fixed! |
6Bagheera9
Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.10 00:20:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ahz
Originally by: LinBadar Fitting close range on a thrasher makes baby jesus cry salty tears of insatiable sadness.
This ship truly shines with a rack of t2 280s, tremor, sensor boosters and dmg mods.
very situation and role specific class of ship but when used in this role it's quite effective, especially for a cheap t1 ship.
It was privateers blasting haulers in Jita with exactly this setup that got me thinking. But for now I'm thinking that these ships perform different combat roles.
Anyone ever use destroyers to pop drones or fighters?
Destroyers are great at popping drones, even the +50% hp bonus that some drone ships have doesn't interfere too much. You can hit fighters quite well too, but cruisers will put out more damage and evade their guns almost as well.
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Elain Reverse
Caldari Shokei
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Posted - 2007.04.10 01:20:00 -
[24]
I tryed Cormorant and it had problems tanking few Rat frigs in DED2 guristas complex. Today i finaly got to Hawk and its shields dont go under 97% in last room with full agro (20+ ships).
Destroyers can have litle more DPS, but they are paper tanks compared to AFs.
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VJ Maverick
Caldari Maverick Specialized Services
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Posted - 2007.04.10 01:31:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Marquis Dean
Originally by: VJ Maverick MWD multiplies your sig radius by 6, not 5, so these figures are even larger. Way too big of a target for my taste - and with crap resists, too. AF all the way.
It depends on the MWD being used. You really ought to have known that.
Generally, MWD gives a sig bonus of 500% or more. 500% bonus to your sig radius makes your sig radius 6 times as great (sig radius + (500%)(sig radius) = 6x(sig radius)). A 550% MWD gives you 6.5x to your sig radius, and so forth.
Care to elaborate on what exactly I "ought to have know[n]" about?
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Jotan Veer
Slaughterhouse
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Posted - 2007.04.10 03:19:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Jotan Veer on 10/04/2007 03:15:48
Originally by: Ghostshadow Cormy can pop inties from 100km
I have a whole lot of interceptor killmails from flying a 150mm T2 rail fitted cormorant but NONE of them solo.
Guess why? Because the cormorant dps sucks and it takes 3 rounds to pop a ceptor solo (or 4 if plated) and they simply warp out if they have half brains.
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PathetiQ
Gallente The Rat Pack
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Posted - 2007.04.10 04:48:00 -
[27]
destroyer with t2 gun are pretty good, but they arent solo own machine, but fleet support or small gank gang!
its a bit less popular than other ship too so less people fly them :)
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2007.04.10 04:55:00 -
[28]
Trust me, get quickfit, spend some time, do gate camps. You'll then know why we just stick with af's. ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever
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Nian Banks
Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir
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Posted - 2007.04.10 05:05:00 -
[29]
Because of the issues with destroyers, most people believe that they arn't all that effective and have an extremely limmited role, Another problem is that most people only ever used them when they were new to the world of eve and never continued to use them once they could afford a cruiser.
Given those two points then I would suggest that those of you who have greater skill and skill points should give them another go, the destroyer becomes infinitely better the more skills you and your character have. Naturally tho I would love to see new tier2 destroyers that could erm perhaps have an extra mid or low...
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Sir Drake
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Posted - 2007.04.10 05:32:00 -
[30]
The only thing destroyers are really usefull for are them being the step befor interdictors.
Destroyers are designed as anti-frig ships which they are not that bad going vs 1-2 frigs but anything more/bigger and they go pop. Tanking sucks big time on them and as someone else mentioned too the slot layout is neither here nor there. ------------------------------------------------------- Sig was removed due to derogatory comments towards a group of people. -Karl Chroimcer
I like that.
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