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Deadlyy Goliath
ordinary insane
0
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Posted - 2016.12.20 20:36:18 -
[1] - Quote
Hey guys, I was wondering how much my ship needs to cost to make me a target for gankers in HS space where I mission. I'm currently flying a Navy Raven worth 1b (fit mainly faction and deadspace) so I was wondering what are the risks. I mainly mission in 0.7 and higher and all 7 mids I have I use on tank mods. I'm not planning on making my ship anymore expensive so I was wondering if I should bring some of my mods to T2 instead of faction or deadspace in order to reduce the chances of getting ganked. Also is there any precautions I should take to reduce my chances of death except from looking at D scan? |
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
1030
|
Posted - 2016.12.20 20:44:09 -
[2] - Quote
Its pretty random but EHP versus fitting cost will have some implications i.e. a 100+K EHP battleship with a few 100m in modules would be a long way down the list of gank targets - also the risk rises exponentially the closer you are to the main mission hubs like some parts of the forge region. |
Silivar Karkun
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
204
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Posted - 2016.12.20 20:45:53 -
[3] - Quote
i think there's nothing more to cover, watch D-Scan, use T2 instead of blingy modules, maybe have someone to give you support in case of getting aggresed by gankers, of course, in terms of repairs, if you can tank more than what they can deal they will loose time that they could use to escape concord, i think.
oh an do missions in a low traffic system. that helps too. if anyone strange enters at least you will know its time to dock. specially if you're on a player corp since you could get wardecced and concord wont be there to protect you. |
Persephone Alleile
Tartarus Covert Operations
276
|
Posted - 2016.12.20 20:49:09 -
[4] - Quote
A trick people will use to gank bigger targets in hisec is they will shoot a ratter's MTU, causing them to go suspect. The ratter will then (sometimes) engage them giving them an engagement flag so the ganker can now attack them without having to worry about CONCORD.
The lesson here is to NOT engage them and simply scoop your MTU to cargo hold.
Other than that, anyone trying to gank you will probably just get CONCORDed before they could scratch you. |
Lady Ayeipsia
Perkone
Caldari State
1272
|
Posted - 2016.12.20 20:54:19 -
[5] - Quote
Step 1: Do not draw attention to yourself such as posting on the forums stating you fly a ship with expensive mods. You will get ganked, and it may just be for the fun of it and because you painted a target on yourself. You may think It would be hard to find you but a locator agent can tell people where you are within a half hour.
Step 2: Fly inconspicuously. Flying a Raven Navy Issue says i have spare risk but don't have the skills to fly a golem. It draws attention which may not be positive. Flying a normal Raven makes you look a little less like a target. Flying an Ishtar says... I'm a cheap date shoot someone else.
Step 3: Get away from crowded systems. Yes, the Sister's of Eve agent in Osmon is nice. She is a level 4 agent near Jita. Everyone knows of her and her system has 2 ice belts that help attract the wrong attention. You may want to switch to a more obscure agent. For example, Khanid Innovations which have a nice implant in the l.p. store and is way off the beaten path.
Step 4: think about your fit... If you are optimized to tank only one damage type and have holes, you make it easier to be ganked. Yes you may run missions a minute faster but is that trade-off worth the trouble? That is a personal call.
Step 5: Don't be stupid. Many mission runners are not yanked. Someone shoots their MTU in a frigate. The big bad battleship thinks it can beat the frigate, the frigate has friends and the BS dies. Don't shoot at people stealing your loot or MTU.
Step 6: Don't go AFK on a gate or in space with tanking mods off, especially in any system where there are gankers or crazy PvPers in the area. I know RvB ganked a few mission runners who went AFK in expensive ships.
Follow these steps and chances are, your mission ship will be fine. |
Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
529
|
Posted - 2016.12.20 20:57:22 -
[6] - Quote
I would say your chances have gone up a bit now... (But maybe that was your plan all along :D)
But in general, the chances of getting ganked is rather low. It's much easier to gank a hauler after all... |
Deadlyy Goliath
ordinary insane
0
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Posted - 2016.12.20 20:59:18 -
[7] - Quote
Thank you all for the advice it certainly will help me :) |
Lady Ayeipsia
Perkone
Caldari State
1272
|
Posted - 2016.12.20 21:00:56 -
[8] - Quote
Oh and a basic cost formula...
A Tornado can cause around 14k damage and costs 70 mil isk. Divide your EHP by 15000. Multiply that value by 70 mil isk. Is that value worth less than 1/2 the price of your ship? If yes, you are profitable to gank. Reduce mods to reduce ship costor increase ship costs. This formula means that an average freighter should carry under about 1bil in isk to be safeish. (i say safeish because people may gank you for fun and tears despite the list income)
Yes I know catalysts are cheaper and use different dps calculations but as a basic estimator rule, this is close enough. |
2Sonas1Cup
183
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Posted - 2016.12.20 21:01:05 -
[9] - Quote
Depends what you fly
Depends if anyone knows what you fly or wants you dead for some reason
Or depends if you're just unlucky to come across someone that hanks missioners for sport
Also depends on the system you're running missions on, the highest the system sec the less probability someone will gank you
But to answer your question, yes there's missioners gankers and most of them are very good at what they do, so beware and don't let anyone know about your fit neither that you run missions. |
Darth Kendari
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
11
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Posted - 2016.12.20 21:21:35 -
[10] - Quote
Well OP you have attracted the attention your snowflake post desired. Yes, now you are a target announcing that you fly a blinged out ship and in a good area for being ganked.
Mission accomplished see you soon.  |
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Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
352
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Posted - 2016.12.20 21:26:15 -
[11] - Quote
A good rule I was taught early on is: Never fly more ship than you can afford to lose. If you can teach yourself to run the same missions in a battle cruiser you can have a back-up ship fitted and waiting for you should you lose one. I've run lvl4 missions in a Drake with success. It takes longer and you have to actually fly around to keep damage down, but it can be done and draws no attention. At least, I've never been bothered while doing it.
Staying in unpopulated space is a great piece of advice as well. If yer gonna fly solo, be a loner.
GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½
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Paranoid Loyd
9974
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Posted - 2016.12.20 21:39:06 -
[12] - Quote
https://zkillboard.com/ship/17636/losses/highsec/
Ganks are the ones with more than 10 people on the killmail. (There are exceptions, if you see anything but Catalysts, Thrashers or Tornados it's probably a wardec)
At a minimum it costs about 50 mil to gank a Navy Raven. So roughly 100 mill in lootable modules is all it takes to be a potential target. (This is on the rare side as many wouldn't be able to field the accounts necessary to pull this off.)
Missioning in popular mission hubs also increases your chances of becoming a target.
"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix
Fix the Prospect!
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Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
385
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Posted - 2016.12.20 21:39:10 -
[13] - Quote
Persephone Alleile wrote:A trick people will use to gank bigger targets in hisec is they will shoot a ratter's MTU, causing them to go suspect. The ratter will then (sometimes) engage them giving them an engagement flag so the ganker can now attack them without having to worry about CONCORD.
The lesson here is to NOT engage them and simply scoop your MTU to cargo hold.
Other than that, anyone trying to gank you will probably just get CONCORDed before they could scratch you.
Before they fixed it (if they fixed it), aggressive drones worked against the missioners and attacked the aggressors who shoot mtu's lots of lulz. Good times, I made sure my drones were passive =).
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Keno Skir
1098
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Posted - 2016.12.20 22:04:18 -
[14] - Quote
Persephone Alleile wrote:A trick people will use to gank bigger targets in hisec is they will shoot a ratter's MTU, causing them to go suspect. The ratter will then (sometimes) engage them giving them an engagement flag so the ganker can now attack them without having to worry about CONCORD.
The lesson here is to NOT engage them and simply scoop your MTU to cargo hold.
Other than that, anyone trying to gank you will probably just get CONCORDed before they could scratch you.
^ That's not what gank means. You're talking about consensual PvP there 
<Gùï> 250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <Gùï>
Including ISK Bonus & In Game Assistance - Piracy / Wormhole Space / Covops PvP
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Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
874
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Posted - 2016.12.20 22:05:06 -
[15] - Quote
Watch local, d-scan, have a cloak fit and have a few safes set up. You will never get caught |
Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
592
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Posted - 2016.12.20 22:07:33 -
[16] - Quote
Zero ... if you buy a mining permit and adhere to the CODE. For just 10 million ISK a year you fly safe. |
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
1512
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Posted - 2016.12.20 23:33:19 -
[17] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:Watch local, d-scan, have a cloak fit and have a few safes set up. You will never get caught
The last sentence is nonsensical. You will get caught, at some point. Your concentration will slip, you'll make a mistake, someone will be faster than you, the lag gods will laugh at you. You'll get caught. You'll lose ships.
However, everything Sonya says is good advice to reduce that risk to an absolute minimum - and that is the bets you can do. There's no such thing as perfectly safe in Eve, as long as you're undocked.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
1512
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Posted - 2016.12.20 23:35:05 -
[18] - Quote
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:Zero ... if you buy a mining permit and adhere to the CODE. For just 10 million ISK a year you fly safe.
hey, question - do people who gank ships that aren't part of Code need a permit to gank?
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
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Pix Severus
Empty You
5408
|
Posted - 2016.12.20 23:54:15 -
[19] - Quote
The only people who care about your shiny mods are you, and gankers.
So you have to ask yourself, do you really need that extra 20 DPS the faction mod gives you? Do you really need the slightly higher shield rep that officer mod gives you?
If you are confident in your abilities to avoid being ganked, then by all means fit yourself up with epics and hope you don't end up like this guy.
MTU Hunter: Latest Entry - Dec 20 2016 - The Damsel
MTU Hunting 101: Comprehensive Guide
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Scarlett LaBlanc
Midnight Savran Industries
178
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Posted - 2016.12.21 00:29:35 -
[20] - Quote
Pix Severus wrote:The only people who care about your shiny mods are you, and gankers. So you have to ask yourself, do you really need that extra 20 DPS the faction mod gives you? Do you really need the slightly higher shield rep that officer mod gives you? If you are confident in your abilities to avoid being ganked, then by all means fit yourself up with epics and hope you don't end up like this guy.
Great to read that article again. People like that are not made every day (thank God). |
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Code Redd
The Scope
Gallente Federation
12
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Posted - 2016.12.21 00:39:17 -
[21] - Quote
i have (not on this character, dont look), lost a navy raven to a gank in 0.6 sec, at a gate. It was accomplished with 4 tornadoes.
The thing is, those 4 tornadoes cost, what, 350m, gank fit? They did a FINe job of getting that raven down.
The drop rate on mods is, what, around 50%? SO, when the tankers look at your ship, if they're ganking you to make isk, they do a ship scan. Beware frigs on gates, or on the undock, that always seem to be there. You wont know that they scan you, they use a passive targeter and a ships scanner.
IF the value of your mods exceeds the calculated cost to kill you, you are a target. Most of the time, they're not going to bring the thrasher gang to gank you for your mods, those people do it for fun.
So, for example, if you have 800m in mods, but it would cost them 5 tornadoes in 0.6 sec .. chances are they wont do it, because the cost to them is going to be almost over 400m for a 50% drop rate. If, instead, you fit 2.5b in mods on there... their gank cost is the same, 430m or so in tornadoes, but a 50% drop rate can almost promise them 1.25b ... enough to pay for 3 ganks if they win. If the loot fairy smiles and 100% of your bling drops, 6 ganks with no drops, is still break even.
It's about the cost to gank you vs the profit. Again, a gang of thrashers, are probably not going to care what's on your ship, but gankers for profit do math. Be familure with that math.
My mission ship has a 250 dps tank, no bling. Doesnt need it. It pushes out 1300 dps in guns alone--again, no bling. If i put a TON of isk into it, i could get it to 800 dps tank, and 1750 dps--but at that point, THREE tornados could kill it, and i would have something on the order of 1.8b in mods on it... i would be a target. BUT, the tank doesnt need to be over 250, the dps difference inside the mission from 1300 to 1700 is ZERO because of rate-of-fire (things die in a volly, volly time is unchanged) ... but one fit costs me 175m, and the other 1.8b ... why bling it?
do math. |
Chopper Rollins
Far Beyond Triggered
1711
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Posted - 2016.12.21 02:17:11 -
[22] - Quote
Having some sort of killboard and not letting people get aggro helps.
I did missions in a faction machariel until my eyes went glassy and only ever met intruders in my mission pocket twice in a year.
Yes, you can fly a meh ship fitted with meh mods, that way you can crouch with your head between your knees in hisec, hoping nobody notices you. Or you can have your tank running when you travel in your bling isk-printer and not get alpha'd at all.
(inb4 a bunch of stats from people who will advise you to lie down and hold still when a moth flies into the room)
Ultimately you need to graduate to PVE outside empire where a blinged loss is recoverable and a team of blue maniacs can pulverise anyone who even looks at you funny.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Sylvia Kildare
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
30
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Posted - 2016.12.21 02:44:05 -
[23] - Quote
Deadlyy Goliath wrote:Hey guys, I was wondering how much my ship needs to cost to make me a target for gankers in HS space where I mission. I'm currently flying a Navy Raven worth 1b (fit mainly faction and deadspace) so I was wondering what are the risks. I mainly mission in 0.7 and higher and all 7 mids I have I use on tank mods. I'm not planning on making my ship anymore expensive so I was wondering if I should bring some of my mods to T2 instead of faction or deadspace in order to reduce the chances of getting ganked. Also is there any precautions I should take to reduce my chances of death except from looking at D scan?
a few notes:
A) your Navy Raven may have 7 midslots, but you really shouldn't need to use all 7 on tank unless your skills aren't up to snuff. Target Painters and Missile Guidance Computers are a missileboat captain's best friends after the launchers and BCSes.
B) avoid the temptation to bring your shiny shinies to Osmon, Lanngisi, and Apanake for L4 SOE missions (more likely to get ganked in or near those systems than most other L4 mission hubs, though other corp L4 mission hubs that are very close to the trade hubs and to the Uedama or Niarja or Balle/Aufay gank corridors are also sometimes unsafe).
C) make instaundock and instadock bookmarks at all trade hubs and all mission stations and anywhere else you dock and undock expensive stuff from/at. People can still scan your ship and gank you at gates, but at least at stations, you can instantly warp out of the undock and instantly dock up rather than slowboating into dock range like often happens when manually warping to stations. |
Taz Carnarth
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2016.12.21 02:44:58 -
[24] - Quote
Pix Severus wrote:The only people who care about your shiny mods are you, and gankers. So you have to ask yourself, do you really need that extra 20 DPS the faction mod gives you? Do you really need the slightly higher shield rep that officer mod gives you? If you're confident in your abilities to avoid being ganked, then by all means fit yourself up with epics and hope you don't end up like this guy.
I am fairly new to this game and so haven't seen that story before, but other then feeling sorry for the overly trusting man that got scammed, I can't help but feel this is the reason Eve is a niche market game. It's nature is that you can risk real money and most people dont want that. I have spent way too much on World of tanks, but my purchases are permanent (well until the game dies). I am not putting at risk that money invested every time I get into a battle. I cant help feel that it making mechanics that allow that to happen is really a bad marketing strategy that wont pull in huge amounts of players. If that guy who got scammed stuck around how much more would he have spent on the game compared to him quitting after his 2 bad experiences.
Personally it won't effect me as I am happy to spend the sub and explore the game without rushing. Time isnt a problem for me.
Maybe this stuff has been discussed previously to death, but I find this games monetization strategies to be weird. maybe I will make a proper forum post about to discuss it. |
Pix Severus
Empty You
5411
|
Posted - 2016.12.21 03:42:38 -
[25] - Quote
Taz Carnarth wrote:Pix Severus wrote:The only people who care about your shiny mods are you, and gankers. So you have to ask yourself, do you really need that extra 20 DPS the faction mod gives you? Do you really need the slightly higher shield rep that officer mod gives you? If you're confident in your abilities to avoid being ganked, then by all means fit yourself up with epics and hope you don't end up like this guy. I am fairly new to this game and so haven't seen that story before, but other then feeling sorry for the overly trusting man that got scammed, I can't help but feel this is the reason Eve is a niche market game. It's nature is that you can risk real money and most people dont want that. I have spent way too much on World of tanks, but my purchases are permanent (well until the game dies). I am not putting at risk that money invested every time I get into a battle. I cant help feel that it making mechanics that allow that to happen is really a bad marketing strategy that wont pull in huge amounts of players. If that guy who got scammed stuck around how much more would he have spent on the game compared to him quitting after his 2 bad experiences. Personally it won't effect me as I am happy to spend the sub and explore the game without rushing. Time isnt a problem for me. Maybe this stuff has been discussed previously to death, but I find this games monetization strategies to be weird. maybe I will make a proper forum post about to discuss it.
It has indeed been discussed at length, many times. You say that this is the reason EVE is a niche game, but you could also argue that a game to give players freedom like this could be the reason why its still going strong after 13 years.
Perhaps this is a discussion for another thread, however.
MTU Hunter: Latest Entry - Dec 20 2016 - The Damsel
MTU Hunting 101: Comprehensive Guide
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Taz Carnarth
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2016.12.21 04:23:26 -
[26] - Quote
Pix Severus wrote:Taz Carnarth wrote:Pix Severus wrote:The only people who care about your shiny mods are you, and gankers. So you have to ask yourself, do you really need that extra 20 DPS the faction mod gives you? Do you really need the slightly higher shield rep that officer mod gives you? If you're confident in your abilities to avoid being ganked, then by all means fit yourself up with epics and hope you don't end up like this guy. I am fairly new to this game and so haven't seen that story before, but other then feeling sorry for the overly trusting man that got scammed, I can't help but feel this is the reason Eve is a niche market game. It's nature is that you can risk real money and most people dont want that. I have spent way too much on World of tanks, but my purchases are permanent (well until the game dies). I am not putting at risk that money invested every time I get into a battle. I cant help feel that it making mechanics that allow that to happen is really a bad marketing strategy that wont pull in huge amounts of players. If that guy who got scammed stuck around how much more would he have spent on the game compared to him quitting after his 2 bad experiences. Personally it won't effect me as I am happy to spend the sub and explore the game without rushing. Time isnt a problem for me. Maybe this stuff has been discussed previously to death, but I find this games monetization strategies to be weird. maybe I will make a proper forum post about to discuss it. It has indeed been discussed at length, many times. You say that this is the reason EVE is a niche game, but you could also argue that a game to give players freedom like this could be the reason why its still going strong after 13 years. Perhaps this is a discussion for another thread, however.
Yes there will be two sides of the argument and I am positive that the owners of the game have put a lot of thought into it. As you point out this is derailing the OP's topic so I will look for previous posts on the topic.
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Chainsaw Plankton
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
2342
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Posted - 2016.12.21 04:52:57 -
[27] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:Oh and a basic cost formula...
A Tornado can cause around 14k damage and costs 70 mil isk. Divide your EHP by 15000. Multiply that value by 70 mil isk. Is that value worth less than 1/2 the price of your ship? If yes, you are profitable to gank. Reduce mods to reduce ship costor increase ship costs. This formula means that an average freighter should carry under about 1bil in isk to be safeish. (i say safeish because people may gank you for fun and tears despite the list income)
Yes I know catalysts are cheaper and use different dps calculations but as a basic estimator rule, this is close enough.
I've used 100m/10k ehp for years, also helps to assume they make a decent profit off ganking you. Imo if you get ganked for less they were just doing it for lulz anyways. Replacing a gank fleet and taking the time to scout people is more effort than most people will put in for minimal profit. Also another reason I like blitzing, I'm not out in space for a long time so the chances of getting probed and still being there by the time they warp in on me are pretty low. The gate ganks are typically the more specialized tornado ganks and they are usually looking for max profit.
That said decent mission fits should come in well below that bench mark, especially if you consider that the ship hull and rigs can't drop. So many faction/deadspace items have crashed in price over the years. Mainly want a few faction damage mods to help boost dps to get missions done quicker. faction/deadspace tank is almost all for the sake of pimp or laziness, I do like the pith c-type xl booster, pretty cheap and uses less cpu than t2, but deadspace invluns or gist boosters get very flashy.
@ChainsawPlankto
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