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Akis Talanas
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2016.12.29 12:12:02 -
[1] - Quote
Just a simple question because i find it surely is....
And what about stealing the mission related item? Both are not "PVP actions" they are just intended to ruin the mission for the missionrunner....and this is no pvp Sure one can "rebuy" the mission critical object....even in space from the thief....
But this is one of the things that really goes to far in my eyes and should be banned.....
And killing a mtu? I mean...why? Just because you can? Great reasoning.....at least wait if someone picks it up......
Both actions are -as said- no pvp and should stop because there is no other sense in it than the pure definition of harrasment..... |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3530
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Posted - 2016.12.29 12:15:06 -
[2] - Quote
They are both allowed to provoke PvP. The MTUs were specifically designed to be allowed to be shot with no Concord.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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Amanda Creire-Geng
University of Caille Gallente Federation
31
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Posted - 2016.12.29 12:24:02 -
[3] - Quote
EVE may just not be the game for you. That's PvP content, not harassment. |
Gregorius Goldstein
Ze One Man Show
1483
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Posted - 2016.12.29 12:31:27 -
[4] - Quote
MTU is not needed to do missions. It adds to your loot/salvage/ISK but will also increade your risk. Works as intended I think. Spoiling missions by snatching an misson critical item is quite mean, but part of EVE's sandbox playstyle. |
Salvos Rhoska
1776
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Posted - 2016.12.29 12:40:07 -
[5] - Quote
Your incessant whining and lack of intellectual effort to understand/internalize EVE mechanics and ethos is getting tiresome...
1) No, stealing loot or attacking an MTU is not harassment.
2) I have frequently had my loot stolen, and have stolen loot from others.
3) These will incur a Suspect Timer on the antagonist, allowing you and all others to freely aggress them for 15mins after the last action of its kind, as well as destroy their pod without sec status loss.
4) All of the above constitute PVP action. You are fundamentally failing to understand what PVP is.
5) View the first link in my sig to help you visualize the paradigm between what PVP and PVE is in EVE.
PvE v PvP
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Old School Exploration
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CODE Licenses
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CODE Special Agent
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Omar Alharazaad
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
3127
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Posted - 2016.12.29 12:41:01 -
[6] - Quote
OP, have we met? Just curious.
In my slow times I subside off of a steady diet of MTU's and liberated Damsels. Sometimes MTU's hold wonderful treasures, such as the leftover modules from the mission ship that just derped to NPC's. It's worth the time and effort usually to crack them open to see if there's something shiny inside. They're kinda like barrels in Diablo.
An important thing to keep in mind in EVE is that a thing isn't truly truly yours until you offload it in a station. Things in space can be taken from you, especially if you do not take measures to prevent that from happening.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Sequester Risalo
Semiki Minerals and Missiles Company Ltd.
260
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Posted - 2016.12.29 12:41:35 -
[7] - Quote
Akis Talanas wrote:And killing a mtu? I mean...why? Just because you can? Great reasoning.....at least wait if someone picks it up......
that you can't see a reason doesn't mean there is none.
The reason for stealing a mission related item and reselling to the mission runner has verz simple reason. Profit. There is no such thing as stealing as any item is only truly yours after you bank it in a station.
Shooting an MTU also has very good reasons. Again it can be done for a profit as you can scoop the contents. However most of the times the reason is provoking an attack. Shooting an MTU is not illegal as it is not sanction by the CONCORD police force. Instead the attacker gets a suspect timer (flashing yellow) allowing you to retaliate without CONCORD intervention.
However the attacker will most likely ba a PvP player in a ship fitted for PvP whereas you don't seem to be one and are sitting an a ship fitted for PvE. This means the odds aren't in your favour and you should probably not shoot at the offender. |
Cade Windstalker
680
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Posted - 2016.12.29 14:28:50 -
[8] - Quote
Akis Talanas wrote:Just a simple question because i find it surely is....
And what about stealing the mission related item? Both are not "PVP actions" they are just intended to ruin the mission for the missionrunner....and this is no pvp Sure one can "rebuy" the mission critical object....even in space from the thief....
But this is one of the things that really goes to far in my eyes and should be banned.....
And killing a mtu? I mean...why? Just because you can? Great reasoning.....at least wait if someone picks it up......
Both actions are -as said- no pvp and should stop because there is no other sense in it than the pure definition of harrasment.....
They're trying to provoke you into shooting them since in both cases they get a Suspect timer. Then they either turn around and kill you in their PvP fitted ship or they blow up, go get a PvP fitted ship, and kill you.
In either case this is an absolutely intended interaction of mechanics... as is complaining on the forums. I'm sure if whoever was messing with your mission running is reading this they're laughing their behind off at how much they got under your skin.
My suggestion, go fit up a PvP fit on your mission hull and turn the tables on them. |
Yourmoney Mywallet
Jita Institute of Applied Monetary Manipulation
1271
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Posted - 2016.12.29 14:55:11 -
[9] - Quote
Akis Talanas wrote:And what about stealing the mission related item? ... this is no pvp I agree with you wholeheartedly.
This should be called "PvC:" Player versus Cattle.
I'll leave it to you to figure out which category you belong to.
Happy Holidays! |
Memphis Baas
2600
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Posted - 2016.12.29 15:02:41 -
[10] - Quote
Anyway. No, MTU killing and stealing loot items are NOT considered harassment by the support staff or devs.
If you suspect harassment or have been harassed, open a support ticket under the harassment category, and you will get an official response and/or action.
As you can see on the forums, this is a PVP game where your ship pixels can explode or be stolen simply "for fun", and players can and WILL take all the actions that the game allows them to take, including blowing up ships, taking items, scamming, spying, killing your pod, making fun of you on the forums, etc. |
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Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
892
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Posted - 2016.12.29 15:09:16 -
[11] - Quote
You agree to anything going when you log into the New Eden universe. They have a vague defense against what is real harassment or not.
Quote:
You may encounter and converse with people who are rude, offensive, belligerent, and who may use indecent, obscene, and/or threatening or harassing language while playing the Game. You may report any instances of such behavior to CCP. CCP will investigate and take such measures as CCP, in its sole judgment, determines are reasonable under the circumstances. CCP does not guarantee that you will not encounter behavior of others that you may view as insulting, demeaning, offensive, threatening or harassing. You assume all risk associated with playing the Game, and CCP assumes no responsibility for the conduct of any other players, and shall not be liable to you or any other person for their conduct.
Your definition of harassment is not the kind of harassment CCP is looking for. If it was ongoing personal insults or attacks, I think that's more what they are looking at keeping policed.
Quote:This End User License Agreement ("EULA") describes the terms and conditions under which you may (i) install and use the Software; and (ii) subscribe to, access and use EVE online. CCP may amend this EULA from time to time by posting an amended version at http://www.eveonline.com/pnp/eula.asp. If you accept this EULA, the then-current version of this EULA shall apply each time you access the System or play EVE.
By using this software you are also agreeing to all of the EULA.
Sorry about the MTU!
@lunettelulu7
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Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
328
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Posted - 2016.12.29 15:16:54 -
[12] - Quote
>implying eve morality is the same as RL morality
Okay this is going way out-of-game but these types of problems experienced by some come from the FALSE idea that the real world, or eves virtual world, should follow the set of morals that you personally hold. In truth, there is no such thing as fair, or right. People often take what they want without thinking how it affects others. That's just life.
Adjust your perception from 'what is fair' to 'what am I capable of doing' and you'll be on the right track. If you're a small guy you won't be capable of much, but you'll at least be able to make it a hassle for anyone who wants to attack you.
A case for more AoE in EvE
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
8586
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Posted - 2016.12.29 15:30:47 -
[13] - Quote
Akis Talanas wrote:Just a simple question because i find it surely is....
And what about stealing the mission related item? Both are not "PVP actions" they are just intended to ruin the mission for the missionrunner....and this is no pvp Sure one can "rebuy" the mission critical object....even in space from the thief....
But this is one of the things that really goes to far in my eyes and should be banned.....
And killing a mtu? I mean...why? Just because you can? Great reasoning.....at least wait if someone picks it up......
Both actions are -as said- no pvp and should stop because there is no other sense in it than the pure definition of harrasment.....
Killing MTUs surely is not harassment. Anyone can scoop their own MTU at any time and ignore the flashy yellow ship on their overview. Make no mistake though, this is PVP, and working entirely as intended. There is nothing stopping you from making friends and having them come help kill him, running your missions in PVP fits, or learning how to PVP in this PVP game. Your missions are not protected areas. If they were, they would be instanced, but this isn't WoW, it's EVE Online.
Also, people who leave MTUs lying around clutter up my dscan. It's annoying and I will kill them whenever I see them.
This is a hard game. Not 'hard' as in difficult, but 'hard' as in 'for people who eat concrete'. You need to harden up, and adapt to it, if you want to enjoy it. And you will enjoy it if you adapt, I guarantee it.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Gregorius Goldstein
Ze One Man Show
1484
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Posted - 2016.12.29 15:31:49 -
[14] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:OP, have we met? Just curious.
In my slow times I subside off of a steady diet of MTU's and liberated Damsels.
You soloed a raven in a (navy)frigate? https://zkillboard.com/kill/54492144/ Guess those were some delicious tears.
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Bjorn Tyrson
EVE University Ivy League
137
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Posted - 2016.12.29 16:13:12 -
[15] - Quote
MTU killing is not harassment. It is content creation. |
Princess Adhara
University of Caille Gallente Federation
102
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Posted - 2016.12.29 16:32:09 -
[16] - Quote
MTU manufacturers have to make a living, too |
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1541
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Posted - 2016.12.29 17:46:55 -
[17] - Quote
Akis Talanas wrote: And killing a mtu? I mean...why? Just because you can? Great reasoning...
In Eve that's pretty much the only reason that matters. The rest of it is fluff and justification.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
3010
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Posted - 2016.12.29 17:53:06 -
[18] - Quote
I consider your post to be harassment, OP.
Watching someone be this much of a wimp in public is making me feel very triggered.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Pix Severus
Empty You
5550
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Posted - 2016.12.29 17:56:51 -
[19] - Quote
Welcome to the world of emergent gameplay, where players are allowed to do whatever they want, including things that don't fit neatly into your little categories of "PvP" and "Not PvP".
(Spoilers: Everything in EVE is PvP, whether you want it or not.)
MTU Hunter: Latest Entry - Dec 28 2016 - Vocal Local 4
MTU Hunting 101: Comprehensive Guide
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Salvos Rhoska
1778
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Posted - 2016.12.29 17:58:42 -
[20] - Quote
Princess Adhara wrote:MTU manufacturers have to make a living, too This is a central point. Unfortunately, I dont think OP will understand its crucial implications to EVE.
PvE v PvP
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Old School Exploration
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CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
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Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
2352
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Posted - 2016.12.29 18:08:12 -
[21] - Quote
well if the other person is a player, and you are a player, then surely it must be pvp
if you have a chance to buy a damsel well guess where that came from
@ChainsawPlankto
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Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
601
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Posted - 2016.12.29 18:17:42 -
[22] - Quote
Akis Talanas wrote: Is MTU killing harrasment?
No.
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Marcus Binchiette
Pyrotech Creations
42
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Posted - 2016.12.29 18:22:40 -
[23] - Quote
Akis Talanas wrote:Just a simple question because i find it surely is....
And what about stealing the mission related item? Both are not "PVP actions" they are just intended to ruin the mission for the missionrunner....and this is no pvp Sure one can "rebuy" the mission critical object....even in space from the thief....
But this is one of the things that really goes to far in my eyes and should be banned.....
And killing a mtu? I mean...why? Just because you can? Great reasoning.....at least wait if someone picks it up......
Both actions are -as said- no pvp and should stop because there is no other sense in it than the pure definition of harrasment.....
1. Yes it is harassment. 2. Stealing the mission related item is also harassment. 3. Due to this harassment provoking interaction and a response between the players this would qualify as a PvP interaction 4. Yes there are ways of defeating the thief, or procuring the item by other means 5. Killing an MTU... See point one. 6. Why? Because you can... and because sometimes there is some really tasty loot inside the MTU. It is often well worth stealing.
7. Should these actions be banned? No. This is a classical PvP interaction inside a free world system. These actions should not be banned - and next time someone does it, fit yourself a warp scrambler and defend your ******* MTU you doppy ****.
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Marcus Binchiette
Pyrotech Creations
42
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Posted - 2016.12.29 18:24:25 -
[24] - Quote
Marcus Binchiette wrote:Akis Talanas wrote:Just a simple question because i find it surely is....
And what about stealing the mission related item? Both are not "PVP actions" they are just intended to ruin the mission for the missionrunner....and this is no pvp Sure one can "rebuy" the mission critical object....even in space from the thief....
But this is one of the things that really goes to far in my eyes and should be banned.....
And killing a mtu? I mean...why? Just because you can? Great reasoning.....at least wait if someone picks it up......
Both actions are -as said- no pvp and should stop because there is no other sense in it than the pure definition of harrasment..... 1. Yes it is harassment. 2. Stealing the mission related item is also harassment. 3. Due to this harassment provoking interaction and a response between the players this would qualify as a PvP interaction 4. Yes there are ways of defeating the thief, or procuring the item by other means 5. Killing an MTU... See point one. 6. Why? Because you can... and because sometimes there is some really tasty loot inside the MTU. It is often well worth stealing. 7. Should these actions be banned? No. This is a classical PvP interaction inside a free world system. These actions should not be banned - and next time someone does it, fit yourself a warp scrambler and defend your ******* MTU you doppy ****.
8. Yes it is harassment, and harassment is an essential characteristic of PvP. Just because someone is harassing you doesn't mean that it should be banned. |
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra Gallente Federation
403
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Posted - 2016.12.29 19:25:41 -
[25] - Quote
I once got in on a Proteus km . This person was getting the lvl1 Aethur Drone mission with alts then running them with a character who could fly a Proteus. I was trying to steal the Hive mind Embryo. He shot the Aethur Hive Queen wreck and got criminal flagged so I started slagging him while concord did the bulk of the work.
In his attempt to deprive me of the item (If I can't have it no one can style) he forgot that mission rats belong to the person assigned the mission no matter who kills the rat. So even though he killed the queen the wreck belonged to his alt. Fun times.
With the MTU thing, just be glad CCP fixed it so drones on aggressive don't volunteer to attack them for attacking the MTU anymore (At least I think they fixed that.). Lot of bling fit lvl4 missioners fell victim to this in the first few days of the MTUs introduction. |
Salvos Rhoska
1780
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Posted - 2016.12.29 19:26:03 -
[26] - Quote
Its not harassment in any legal tense, including that defined by the TOS/EULA.
Its not even harassment in a colloquial tense.
MTUs are attackable and destructible, according to mechanics specific to which security region it is deployed in. Attacking them in no way, shape or form, constitutes harassment.
PvE v PvP
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Old School Exploration
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CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
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Beast of Revelations
Hedion University Amarr Empire
85
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Posted - 2016.12.29 19:41:44 -
[27] - Quote
I bore of wanna-be internet 'tough guys' telling other people 'Eve is not for them' just because they disagree on something. My take? Yes, poster, 'Eve is for you' up and until you personally decide that it isn't - no sooner, and no later.
Now, on to the topic at hand. You should be advised that there is quite a bit of douche-baggery in this game, perpetrated by quite a number of associated douche bags. Basically, the deal is, there are sociopaths who play this game. Most of them probably don't act the way in real life that they do in this game (they'd punched in the face on a regular basis), but anonymity protects them.
I don't mind PvP at all, or what I'd consider 'rational' game play. For instance, stealing from you could be considered entirely rational. So could blowing up your ship for some particular reason. But I often see simply 'mindless' shooting of anything that moves for no reason whatsoever, and totally irrational gameplay. Either that, or worse - people purposefully being douchebags.
The other week I was undocking out of a station in a shuttle. Some guy camping behind the station in a tornado just one-shotted my shuttle and pod (no implants, heh). I respawned in a nearby station and thought 'I wonder why he did that?' and decided to study this particular clone. So I went back to the station, docked, made it my home station, and undocked again. BOOM! Respawned inside the station, undocked again, BOOM! I kept this up for an hour, just wondering how long he'd go, and what motivated him. After an hour or so, he left. I guess he blew me up well over 100 times. Did he profit? No. Was he achieving some strategic objective? No. He was just a ******, or worse, a douchebag.
After that episode I considered advertising a service catering to retards of this type. "Come blow me up! Hundreds of times! All day long! On these particular days (listed)! All for the low price of X!" Might could make money with this idea, if the perpetrators are just mindless simpletons shooting at anything that moves. But I wouldn't have takers if the perpetrators are sociopaths who simply enjoy being douchebags.
Anyway, am I for banning this kind of stuff? Nah, not necessary. We don't need to police any and every action that there is. Just toughen-up, my friend. Next time someone shoots your MTU you could take a page out of my book. Buy another one and stick it in the same place, let him blow that one up. Then do it again, and again - see how long he lasts. Of course that could get expensive, but.... |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
19831
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Posted - 2016.12.29 19:42:12 -
[28] - Quote
Marcus Binchiette wrote:Marcus Binchiette wrote:Akis Talanas wrote:Just a simple question because i find it surely is....
And what about stealing the mission related item? Both are not "PVP actions" they are just intended to ruin the mission for the missionrunner....and this is no pvp Sure one can "rebuy" the mission critical object....even in space from the thief....
But this is one of the things that really goes to far in my eyes and should be banned.....
And killing a mtu? I mean...why? Just because you can? Great reasoning.....at least wait if someone picks it up......
Both actions are -as said- no pvp and should stop because there is no other sense in it than the pure definition of harrasment..... 1. Yes it is harassment. 2. Stealing the mission related item is also harassment. 3. Due to this harassment provoking interaction and a response between the players this would qualify as a PvP interaction 4. Yes there are ways of defeating the thief, or procuring the item by other means 5. Killing an MTU... See point one. 6. Why? Because you can... and because sometimes there is some really tasty loot inside the MTU. It is often well worth stealing. 7. Should these actions be banned? No. This is a classical PvP interaction inside a free world system. These actions should not be banned - and next time someone does it, fit yourself a warp scrambler and defend your ******* MTU you doppy ****. 8. Yes it is harassment, and harassment is an essential characteristic of PvP. Just because someone is harassing you doesn't mean that it should be banned.
Antagonising your opponent is an essential characteristic of PvP. Antagonistic behavior Gëá harassment Harassment has a specific meaning and the behavior described has absolutely no place here.
Murderers of Negotiable Motivations
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Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
650
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Posted - 2016.12.29 20:06:16 -
[29] - Quote
Beast of Revelations wrote:Now, on to the topic at hand. You should be advised that there is quite a bit of douche-baggery in this game, perpetrated by quite a number of associated douche bags. Basically, the deal is, there are sociopaths who play this game. Most of them probably don't act the way in real life that they do in this game (they'd punched in the face on a regular basis), but anonymity protects them. Are you telling me that playing a game within the rules of the game is sociopathic? By your logic, chess players are sociopaths because the capture queens. Capturing a queen in real life will get you much, much more than a punch in the face! Now, if you mean taunting or insulting the other player, sure, that's wrong - and against the TOS/EULA I think. But shooting an MTU for no particular reason at all? That's 100% allowed per the rules, just like capturing a pawn for no particular reason is 100% allowed per the rules of chess, and neither action is indicative of sociopathic behavior.
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Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1355
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Posted - 2016.12.29 20:11:13 -
[30] - Quote
Easy. No and no.
Remove standings and insurance.
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