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Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
1013
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Posted - 2017.01.07 15:30:29 -
[61] - Quote
The Rifter is a jack-of-all-trades, master of none.
@lunettelulu7
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Reinhardt Kreiss
TetraVaal Tactical Group
62
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Posted - 2017.01.07 15:30:35 -
[62] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Reinhardt Kreiss wrote:...newbie Caldari low sec... You are doing nothing but demonstrating your lack of understanding of EVE Online and PVP, which is reflected in your KB and your uninformed posting. The only reason you have to keep calling lowsec this is because you either really believe that there is lowsec for newbies, or you are trying to deride my expertise in PVP. Why don't you come to 'newbie lowsec' and see just how 'newbie' it is.
Ok, so why do you never stray away from those system then. do tell? Could it perhaps be because Caldari has the most newbie characters and it's right next door to where said newbies have their first steps in EVE?
I mean, there must a be a reason you never leave that area. |
Salvos Rhoska
1896
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Posted - 2017.01.07 15:32:23 -
[63] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:So you can cherry pick my KB all you like, it's not an example of RPS. Oh, my lord. The irony considering your attempts to denigrate others on their 1 character's KB. And many other examples of such in this thread alone. You truly do lack the capacity of theory of mind. Nobody understands EVE, except you, right? Anyone that disagrees with you, doesnt, right? KBs demonstrate experience. It's like a resume. All yours demonstrates is failure. Point stands though, cherry-picking them proves nothing, but I can see your entire KB on one page. Don't have to cherry-pick four losses.
You really dont get it, do you.
This is not my only account, much less my only character.
You are the one cherry picking :D Nobody else.
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Salvos Rhoska
1897
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Posted - 2017.01.07 15:36:46 -
[64] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Ship balance/stats are not related to player aptitude in flying them. And as long as you have no aptitude, I'm sure you will continue to believe that. How do you presume to know my aptitude? And how does aptitude change the hard-coded stats of ships? How does a Magnate beat an Enyo? You'll never know because you'll never be good enough to do it.
Does a Magnate differ in stats from an Enyo?
Oh wait, yes they do! Thats why a Magnate is a Magnate, and an Enyo is an Enyo! What a surprise! Stop the press!
So one ship can beat another ship? OMG! It must have nothing to do with ship stats!
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
8669
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Posted - 2017.01.07 15:38:42 -
[65] - Quote
Reinhardt Kreiss wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Reinhardt Kreiss wrote:...newbie Caldari low sec... You are doing nothing but demonstrating your lack of understanding of EVE Online and PVP, which is reflected in your KB and your uninformed posting. The only reason you have to keep calling lowsec this is because you either really believe that there is lowsec for newbies, or you are trying to deride my expertise in PVP. Why don't you come to 'newbie lowsec' and see just how 'newbie' it is. Ok, so why do you never stray away from those system then. do tell? Could it perhaps be because Caldari has the most newbie characters and it's right next door to where said newbies have their first steps in EVE? I mean, there must a be a reason you never leave that area.
I live in those systems. They are my home. They have been my home since I first started PVP'ing in 2013. Sure, I've moved around a bit, but that lowsec has always been my home, and the friends I've made there make it that way. There is a very tight-knit community that has lived in that island for over a decade now, owns everything there, and has defended their property against a myriad of interlopers for as long as they've lived there. And it's not even close to 'right next door' of newbie systems, but even if it was, that wouldn't define it as a newbie system. I linked you the list of systems defined as newbie ones, and nothing else in the game apart from those systems is a newbie system. NOTHING. Not even the systems that are right next door to those ones.
All gates to lowsec from high give everyone a warning before entering, and everyone enters at their own risk, newbies included. You'd know this if you'd ever tried to go to lowsec, which I did when I was a newbie. First week, in a Navitas, straight into Seyllin where I mined Jaspet, and got wrecked by a Jaguar. I'll never forget that loss, because it's the one that made me want to stick around and learn to PVP.
Again, though, you can cherry-pick my KB all you want. It proves nothing except you don't understand why mine demonstrates me as having more PVP expertise and understanding than you.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
8669
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Posted - 2017.01.07 15:40:34 -
[66] - Quote
Salvos, I have your posts hidden now. I can see you posting, but I'm not reading your crap. It's just going to be more of the same; more narcissism, more pretentiousness 'ergos' and more of you being wrong about EVE on every level. If you had a shred of demonstrable PVP experience, I might consider you worth taking seriously, but you aren't. At this point, I'm pretty sure you're just being contrarian for its own sake, so I'm going to leave your posts hidden and generally ignore you. You are little more than a benign growth on this game, and these forums, that nobody would miss if you vanished forever.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Reinhardt Kreiss
TetraVaal Tactical Group
64
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Posted - 2017.01.07 15:41:04 -
[67] - Quote
HAH, ok.
So you just happened to end up there by sheer accident and never noticed it's full of newbies, and you never moved elsewhere In two years.
Right, ok. |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
8669
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Posted - 2017.01.07 15:41:45 -
[68] - Quote
Reinhardt Kreiss wrote:HAH, ok.
So you just happened to end up there by sheer accident and never noticed it's full of newbies, and you never moved elsewhere In two years.
Right, ok.
Why don't you go there and see how full of newbies it is?
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Reinhardt Kreiss
TetraVaal Tactical Group
64
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Posted - 2017.01.07 15:48:39 -
[69] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Reinhardt Kreiss wrote:HAH, ok.
So you just happened to end up there by sheer accident and never noticed it's full of newbies, and you never moved elsewhere In two years.
Right, ok. Why don't you go there and see how full of newbies it is?
Oh no, it has a lot of older players claiming to be awesome, they just don't shoot each other very often. That would just get in the way of shooting newbies. |
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
1013
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Posted - 2017.01.07 15:55:31 -
[70] - Quote
Reinhardt Kreiss wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Reinhardt Kreiss wrote:HAH, ok.
So you just happened to end up there by sheer accident and never noticed it's full of newbies, and you never moved elsewhere In two years.
Right, ok. Why don't you go there and see how full of newbies it is? Oh no, it has a lot of older players claiming to be awesome, they just don't shoot each other very often. That would just get in the way of shooting newbies.
What's wrong with living where the food is?
@lunettelulu7
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Reinhardt Kreiss
TetraVaal Tactical Group
64
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Posted - 2017.01.07 15:59:00 -
[71] - Quote
Lulu Lunette wrote:Reinhardt Kreiss wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Reinhardt Kreiss wrote:HAH, ok.
So you just happened to end up there by sheer accident and never noticed it's full of newbies, and you never moved elsewhere In two years.
Right, ok. Why don't you go there and see how full of newbies it is? Oh no, it has a lot of older players claiming to be awesome, they just don't shoot each other very often. That would just get in the way of shooting newbies. What's wrong with living where the food is?
Nothing, I'm perfectly fine with it. But when people start putting up a smoke screen about how awesome they are and then illustrate that by how they risked an Atron to kill some pve guy in a Kestrel then I'll point and laugh.
Not saying he's bad, that would be stupid, but the whole "raah look at my killboard" isn't working in his favour. At least not with people who DO have a clue, I'm sure it works fine with most other people. |
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
1013
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Posted - 2017.01.07 16:05:56 -
[72] - Quote
Reinhardt Kreiss wrote:Lulu Lunette wrote:Reinhardt Kreiss wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Reinhardt Kreiss wrote:HAH, ok.
So you just happened to end up there by sheer accident and never noticed it's full of newbies, and you never moved elsewhere In two years.
Right, ok. Why don't you go there and see how full of newbies it is? Oh no, it has a lot of older players claiming to be awesome, they just don't shoot each other very often. That would just get in the way of shooting newbies. What's wrong with living where the food is? Nothing, I'm perfectly fine with it. But when people start putting up a smoke screen about how awesome they are and then illustrate that by how they risked an Atron to kill some pve guy in a Kestrel then I'll point and laugh. Not saying he's bad, that would be stupid, but the whole "raah look at my killboard" isn't working in his favour. At least not with people who DO have a clue, I'm sure it works fine with most other people.
Is this a weenie measuring thing? lol
@lunettelulu7
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Reinhardt Kreiss
TetraVaal Tactical Group
64
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Posted - 2017.01.07 16:08:20 -
[73] - Quote
Nope, just pointing out the (perhaps not so) obvious. The inconvenient truth, if you will. |
Salvos Rhoska
1898
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Posted - 2017.01.07 16:25:23 -
[74] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Salvos, I have your posts hidden now. I can see you posting, but I'm not reading your crap. It's just going to be more of the same; more narcissism, more pretentiousness 'ergos' and more of you being wrong about EVE on every level. If you had a shred of demonstrable PVP experience, I might consider you worth taking seriously, but you aren't. At this point, I'm pretty sure you're just being contrarian for its own sake, so I'm going to leave your posts hidden and generally ignore you. You are little more than a benign growth on this game, and these forums, that nobody would miss if you vanished forever.
1) You are reading it, nonetheless.
2) More ad-hominem.
3) Totally ignoring my statement that you are incapable of understanding that the character a poster uses may not be their only one.
4) More ad-hominem.
5) Do you think anyone would miss you? :D
No addressing of the issues and arguments in my posts.
Just a claim that he is "ignoring" my posts, whilst nonetheless responding to them, without addressing their content.
Keep digging your head into the sand with your butt exposed and standing up in the air.
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Othran
Route One
762
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Posted - 2017.01.07 16:28:57 -
[75] - Quote
The Rifter is viable. I just don't think its very viable for people without extensive solo/small gang (under 8) experience. You need a certain level of SPs in the right area but you need a lot more in the actual experience area now.
The Rifter is not what it once was - Rifter Drifter days are a while ago :( |
Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
562
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Posted - 2017.01.07 16:32:08 -
[76] - Quote
Should have brought popcorn to the party... Damn, this turned into a **** measuring contest quite fast :D
LOOK AT MY PENIS! |
Salvos Rhoska
1898
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Posted - 2017.01.07 16:45:33 -
[77] - Quote
ITT: Remiel self-destructing, again. Ignoring arguments and insulting everyone else as "not understanding EVE" as his highness does. Comparing his KB to forum alts, and refusing to answer to repudiations on his own KB.
According to him, ship balance is perfect. Only pro skills like Remiel has, matter. He is so pro, he can defeat a Titan in a Rookie ship!
Watch out, everyone. Remiel has the magic to make a ship do something its hardcoded stats cant!
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Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
1013
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Posted - 2017.01.07 16:55:02 -
[78] - Quote
Forum alts xD
@lunettelulu7
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Bertok Francis
Raiju
2
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Posted - 2017.01.07 17:57:53 -
[79] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:ITT: Remiel self-destructing, again. Ignoring arguments and insulting everyone else as "not understanding EVE" as his highness does. Comparing his KB to forum alts, and refusing to answer to repudiations on his own KB.
According to him, ship balance is perfect. Only pro skills like Remiel has, matter. He is so pro, he can defeat a Titan in a Rookie ship!
Watch out, everyone. Remiel has the magic to make a ship do something its hardcoded stats cant!
Mathematically killing a titan in a rookie ship is possible; it will just take a few weeks to burn your way through the armor buffer.
As I (with my admittedly very limited experience) see it is like this; Fit and ship as well as player skill are both effectors of the outcome of a fight but neither operate alone; there are videos of kestrals killing T3Ds out there and also of herons killing cruisers, heck I even saw a video of an astero killing a Tengu. On the other hand, a solo kestral will neer beat a decently fit RLM caracal with a pilot who knows enough to lock the target, press F1 and maybe occasionally click on a medium shield repper, because that is what an RLM caracal does. On the other hand if it is a buffer caracal with heavy missiles and no scram or target painter then it is a winnable fight with the right fit (I personally probably couldn't do it but it is at least possible). TLDR: eve is not a 1 dimensional game and many things matter. |
Salvos Rhoska
1898
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Posted - 2017.01.07 18:00:49 -
[80] - Quote
Ships= stats no stats = no ship
There is no escaping the fact that ship stats underlie everything in EVE. There is also no escaping the fact that the balance in stats between those ships is imperfect. Pilot capability can swing the favor, but it cannot change the systemic stats of the ships in the engagement.
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Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
338
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Posted - 2017.01.07 18:52:52 -
[81] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Ships= stats no stats = no ship
There is no escaping the fact that ship stats underlie everything in EVE. There is also no escaping the fact that the balance in stats between those ships is imperfect. Pilot capability can swing the favor, but it cannot change the systemic stats of the ships in the engagement.
What are you even saying dude? I mean, yeah, a ship is it's stats, that's pretty obvious to anyone. Your ship has X PG, Y CPU, Z slots, and a few other things and you as a player can't do anything about that. However I don't believe your premise that the hulls are that imbalanced in the first place. Next, the bare hull stats mean next to nothing in a fight because both ships will be fitted to fill a certain strategy.
Your argument that pvp comes down to stats alone is demonstrably false, yet you continue. And worse, if you accept that it is not hull stats but fitted ship stats that are the decider, then you are agreeing with Remiel that player strategy is the important factor.
A case for more AoE in EvE
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Matthias Ancaladron
Wrath of Angels
67
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Posted - 2017.01.07 19:18:15 -
[82] - Quote
Cause its minmatar and minmatar are ugly trash ships. |
Cyrina FaithWeaver
Brutor tribe Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2017.01.07 19:48:22 -
[83] - Quote
Fek Mercer wrote:At this point, I've flown the rifter quite a lot. It's not the best for sure, but I'm not sure what it is exactly that makes it apparently bad. is it just a case of other t1 ships being op?
Its not bad, its just that its terrible for the role of scram kiter or projection ship. Its outclassed by rockets, which perform said role much better, it either needs a new role or some kind of buff to make it a relevant ship. |
Cyrina FaithWeaver
Brutor tribe Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2017.01.07 19:51:28 -
[84] - Quote
Kamala Sakar wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:I am of the philosophy that there is no such thing as a bad ship in the hands of a capable pilot. This is nonsense often claimed in games. Ships are categorically defined by their stats. They exist as their stats. No stats = no ship. When a player flies that specific ship, it is under constraints of those stats. Ergo, player capability is secondary to ship stats. It is patently impossible and irrational to claim there exists perfect ship balance in EVE. That would be the only premise where player capability would become primary, as all ship stats would be equal. Given two pilots of equal capacity, ship stats decide. This further reinforces that ship stats are primary, player capability is secondary. No amount of capability of a player, can turn a "bad" ship, into a "good" one. I was under the impression that EVE PvP is more of a rock-paper-scissors kind of thing, is that wrong ?
It is if your in faction warfare, however outside of that, pilot skill matters alot more. Hellovalot more. |
Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
2026
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Posted - 2017.01.07 22:34:36 -
[85] - Quote
Hey Salvos.
Explain this.
Itty solo's Mega
I also remember the Velator pilot who murdered an Oracle.
And all this was BEFORE the rebalance.
Yep, pilot skill counts for nothing........
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
18307
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Posted - 2017.01.07 23:01:29 -
[86] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
The notion that all ships are only as "good" as the pilot sitting in them, is false.
No it isn't. That's the opposite of the truth. The stats, which you are so obsessed about, define the potential capability of a ship. The piloting skill, experience, alertness and situation (plus variables like having ping spots, not getting snagged on a wreck, current shield/armor/cap which might have been depleted from previous activity, and so on) of the pilot are what determine what fraction of that potential capability is actually brought to bear on a given situation.
If what you hypothesise were the case, there would never be siuations where "inferior" ships prevailed over superior ones, or where smaller, highly skilled groups defeat (or at least inflict disproportionate casualties) larger groups. Yet the evidence is that these situations occur so frequently as to be unremarkable.
"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."
Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
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Sitting Bull Lakota
SBL Co
249
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Posted - 2017.01.07 23:34:05 -
[87] - Quote
Rifter can conceivably kite, brawl, or scramkite but not particularly well. The Slasher's slot layout and bonus set just make it a more user friendly ship if you want to use projectiles. Last I checked, the only really strong entry in Minmatar's frigate lineup is the Breacher. This is all second and third hand hearsay, though. I think if the Rifter's utility high was changed to a mid, then it would claim the scramkiter crown with best-in-class range control. |
Marcus Binchiette
Pyrotech Creations
69
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Posted - 2017.01.07 23:44:58 -
[88] - Quote
Damn you people are dumb. Reading this for 5 pages, and all I'm getting is guff about which ship is better.... BUT NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON HAS SAID WHY... What are the attributes which make it what it is. What was so good about it. How was it nerfed. What does it do and what is it good for now? There is absolutely no information in this thread save for a bunch of people arguing. |
Orlacc
957
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Posted - 2017.01.08 00:11:35 -
[89] - Quote
Topics like this show how the demographic has changed........are pallys better than shammys? (Have to put a "Y" after everything)
"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
8674
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Posted - 2017.01.08 00:17:04 -
[90] - Quote
Marcus Binchiette wrote:Damn you people are dumb. Reading this for 5 pages, and all I'm getting is guff about which ship is better.... BUT NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON HAS SAID WHY... What are the attributes which make it what it is? What was so good about it? How was it nerfed? What does it do and what is it good for now? There is absolutely no information in this thread save for a bunch of people arguing.
I'm sure that any ship in the hands of a capable pilot is a good ship - and would also add that piloting skill is not a one dimensional attribute. It is the matching of the style of ship with the inclinations of the player which truly produces the best results. So what is this ship all about?
I actually wrote a post outlining what makes it good. Better? There is no 'better'. This isn't Call of Duty or Black Desert with best in slot gear, it's EVE Online. What makes it better is how you fit and fly it.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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