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General Mar ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.15 11:32:00 - [1] there are some serious bug/exploit in there atm, here is what happen : 1, freighter take a long time to speed up for warp (30s-1minutes) 2, bumping allow you interupt someone from warping by reset their speed so they have to speed up again 3, if some player want to bump you, they can "scramble" you forever and waste your time where the bumping come from ? A, there are too many ship undock from Jita with high chance to hit your freighter and interupt your warp B, some bad guy with nano-ship and play with my freighter and interupt my warp all time C, some bad guy released drone next to me and make them orbit close to freighter and interupt my warp all time this become serious problem if they catch my freighter, it may take hours to get away from station and require many dock/undock Jita have lots of people undock all time which can bump and interupt your freighter, it is "accident" so I can fly off the path to avoid bump but the problem is some people stay outside Jita and bump my freighter for fun, this become serious problem and can lock my freighter for hours if I am afk I did petition and not sure what can CCP do about this, I hope they can change undock to further distance or random direction, or change bumping rule so a small ship shouldn't create enough energy to change huge ship's speed if a small ship hit a freighter, they should bounce back instead of chance freighter's speed & direction
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.04.15 11:35:00 - [2] Originally by: General Mar I did petition Of course. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
Ralara Caldari Lilandri Foundation	Posted - 2007.04.15 11:35:00 - [3] bumping is not an exploit, it's perfectly fine. Don't dock in Jita 4-4 then. Dock in another station, and use a hauler to move your stuff. You should have your racial industrial at 5, yes? Shove on cargo expander rigs and as many tech 2 expanders as you can. It may take a few trips to the other station but ... meh. I'm a corp thief. And remember, I only do it because I like your robot.
Amphetaminer Grumpy Old Men	Posted - 2007.04.15 11:42:00 - [4] why should he go to another station and move with a hauler why not just fix an anoying situation?
Stakhanov Shih Yang Tong	Posted - 2007.04.15 11:45:00 - [5] Bumping a freighter you can't kill is classified as griefing / harassment. It's only legit if the bumper is working for privateers or a strong enough suicide gang. That said , it's only petitionable if you can prove it's deliberate. There are no log entries for bumping , at best you can have a GM come to witness it.
Del Narveux Obsidian Angels Enterprises	Posted - 2007.04.15 11:47:00 - [6] If someone bumps you constantly for more than 20 minutes or so Id say it would be considered harassment. Anyway I recommend avoding jita in general, if at all possible. The place just plain sucks... _________________ [SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? Originally by: Wrangler Well, at least we have forum PvP..
Ralara Caldari Lilandri Foundation	Posted - 2007.04.15 11:57:00 - [7] Edited by: Ralara on 15/04/2007 11:55:01 Originally by: Amphetaminer why should he go to another station and move with a hauler why not just fix an anoying situation? There is no "situation" to be fixed. Bumping is a game mechanic, it's not broken. The devs even suggested (before revelations 1.4) that to prevent a titan from warping (or mothership), you can make a nano-dread and bump it to stop aligning. This means that bumping off a ship will stop you aligning. Bumping is part of the game. The wonderful ships outside Jita aren't doing it on purpose, nine times out of ten. So if he docks and undocks there, he should know there's be about 40 ships sitting outside, and it's hell to get out of there. It's hell to get out in a battleship or a battlecruiser, let alone a freighter. Since the ships sitting there are doing nothing wrong, nothing will be done about it. Therefore, he can either continue to undock in 4-4 knowing what will happen, or, he can dock at another station and move items by badger / iteron / whatever to his freighter. Whichever takes the least amount of time. He asked for a solution, I gave him one. If he doesn't like it, well that's his problem :) I'm not going to lose much sleep over it. I'm a corp thief. And remember, I only do it because I like your robot.
Supay Caldari The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.04.15 12:05:00 - [8] Originally by: Ralara Edited by: Ralara on 15/04/2007 11:55:01 Originally by: Amphetaminer why should he go to another station and move with a hauler why not just fix an anoying situation? There is no "situation" to be fixed. Bumping is a game mechanic, it's not broken. The devs even suggested (before revelations 1.4) that to prevent a titan from warping (or mothership), you can make a nano-dread and bump it to stop aligning. This means that bumping off a ship will stop you aligning. Bumping is part of the game. The wonderful ships outside Jita aren't doing it on purpose, nine times out of ten. So if he docks and undocks there, he should know there's be about 40 ships sitting outside, and it's hell to get out of there. It's hell to get out in a battleship or a battlecruiser, let alone a freighter. Since the ships sitting there are doing nothing wrong, nothing will be done about it. Therefore, he can either continue to undock in 4-4 knowing what will happen, or, he can dock at another station and move items by badger / iteron / whatever to his freighter. Whichever takes the least amount of time. He asked for a solution, I gave him one. If he doesn't like it, well that's his problem :) I'm not going to lose much sleep over it. If you read his post he did say that he understands that there is accidental bumping going on and while it annoys him he knows that's always going to happen. But there are people deliberately bumping him who don't have a war dec and are just doing it for fun. That is actually petitionable as it does classify as griefing. He'll need a GM to come and observe, as you said, but he is entitled to have something done about this if someone is deliberately trying to mess his day up for the hell of it, even though they can't kill him. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) I'll be eating out of your bins!
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.15 12:21:00 - [9] Originally by: Stakhanov Bumping a freighter you can't kill is classified as griefing / harassment. It's only legit if the bumper is working for privateers or a strong enough suicide gang. That said , it's only petitionable if you can prove it's deliberate. There are no log entries for bumping , at best you can have a GM come to witness it. I feel it is perfectly acceptable if the one bumping for the privateers is in one of the privateers corporation, as he is in a target as well as a aggressor, and the risk is the same for him that for the other aggressors. If he is in a corporation not at war or in a NPC corporation and help other players to get a kill, to me it seem griefplay, as the tactic used can't be countered. That aside, there is a interesting thing I have noticed in my more recent visits to Jita 4-4: when I leave the station, while local sign 600+ people in local, the space around the station is empty, no ship in sight. The first time it happened I was leaving the station, there was the usual rush hour mass, then improvvisely everyone disapparead from the screen and overview. I thought it was some overview bug, but the ships were invisible (and intagible, as I was not bumping on anyone) even in the main screen. Yesterday, leaving the station with, again, 600+ person in local, the overview and the space around the station was empty of ships. Even moving some tens of Km from the station, I could not see any ship. Someone other has witnessed this? It seem that CCP has implemented something to reduce the black scren kills from undocking at Jita, as there is the normal mass of ships near the gates.
eLLioTT wave Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.04.15 12:29:00 - [10] bumping is altogether one of the lamest parts of eve. It completely ruins the sense of "I'm flying a spaceship through a different universe". Introduce damage (and possible death) from bumping and you'll see Jita clearing up a lot quicker! EG interceptor doing 7km/s flies into a battleship... Interceptor blows up, battleship gets a small dint in shields. 2 cruisers un-docking and bump into each other, both sustain minor shield damage. cruiser MWD's into a battleship, large damage to cruiser, medium to battleship You get the idea, obviously some physics coding to be done for this.
Brisi Veto.	Posted - 2007.04.15 12:39:00 - [11] Originally by: eLLioTT wave bumping is altogether one of the lamest parts of eve. It completely ruins the sense of "I'm flying a spaceship through a different universe". Introduce damage (and possible death) from bumping and you'll see Jita clearing up a lot quicker! EG interceptor doing 7km/s flies into a battleship... Interceptor blows up, battleship gets a small dint in shields. 2 cruisers un-docking and bump into each other, both sustain minor shield damage. cruiser MWD's into a battleship, large damage to cruiser, medium to battleship You get the idea, obviously some physics coding to be done for this. I second this idea. Now we can suicide any ship without losing any sec status, and without using any modules. It's awesome! Resistance is Fertile.
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.04.15 12:46:00 - [12] Originally by: Brisi Originally by: eLLioTT wave bumping is altogether one of the lamest parts of eve. It completely ruins the sense of "I'm flying a spaceship through a different universe". Introduce damage (and possible death) from bumping and you'll see Jita clearing up a lot quicker! EG interceptor doing 7km/s flies into a battleship... Interceptor blows up, battleship gets a small dint in shields. 2 cruisers un-docking and bump into each other, both sustain minor shield damage. cruiser MWD's into a battleship, large damage to cruiser, medium to battleship You get the idea, obviously some physics coding to be done for this. I second this idea. Now we can suicide any ship without losing any sec status, and without using any modules. It's awesome! Third. Nano domi + jita 4-4 = free loots!
Alaris Caldari Murder of Crows E N I G M A	Posted - 2007.04.15 13:00:00 - [13] Undocking bookmark? Use the one naturally given to you at 4-4? Both are easy ways to get away from Jita 4-4 without any hassle of bumping, which I'd agree is horrible at that station.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.04.15 13:00:00 - [14] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 15/04/2007 12:56:34 To be honest, all they need to do is that when you undock - you appear randomly anyware in a sphere 2500 from station. Why 2500? Well, you are safer if you undock randomly around a station, but to be fair to the agressors, its to allow someone the chance to shoot you if you are playing undock games. 2500 is a nice number where most ships can also enter warp without bumping into the station itself. -- Billion Isk Mission
Deus Ex'Machina Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.04.15 14:27:00 - [15] Originally by: Brisi Originally by: eLLioTT wave bumping is altogether one of the lamest parts of eve. It completely ruins the sense of "I'm flying a spaceship through a different universe". Introduce damage (and possible death) from bumping and you'll see Jita clearing up a lot quicker! EG interceptor doing 7km/s flies into a battleship... Interceptor blows up, battleship gets a small dint in shields. 2 cruisers un-docking and bump into each other, both sustain minor shield damage. cruiser MWD's into a battleship, large damage to cruiser, medium to battleship You get the idea, obviously some physics coding to be done for this. I second this idea. Now we can suicide any ship without losing any sec status, and without using any modules. It's awesome! I can picture this now : Me going trough Chaven in my mighty Armageddon, squishing over all the newbie Impairors I see without taking a standing hit or more then 10 dmg to my shields... Destruction Derby, Ants + Mirror + Sun, Snails + Shovel, Me + Shotgun + Pigeons... AWESOME! snip - Image not appropriate for eve-o forums - hutch true amarr tank shields!
Miranda Ceres	Posted - 2007.04.15 14:31:00 - [16] Why aren't you using an alt to web you so that you warp more quickly?
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.04.15 14:38:00 - [17] While ramming damage seems like a cool idea I agree with others that in EVE it would be a nightmare not to mention exploited mercilessly. However, the whole bumping thing should be revisited as it is absurd. That a drone can bump a freighter out of alignment is just stupid. This may be a game but a tad of real world physics wouldn't hurt. If you do the math a Warrior drone has .00000228 the mass of the freighter. Some loose math shows that in comparison this would be roughly equivalent to a smallish bumblebee ramming an 80kg human. Not counting the human's flinch factor the human is not going to move at all...or at least so little as to make no odds. Even if we threw the bee at an astronaut in space the effect would be so negligible as to probably be unmeasurable. Bum0ping tactics are all well and good but give it at least some semblance of reason.
Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Pride - Honor - Duty	Posted - 2007.04.15 14:57:00 - [18] Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 15/04/2007 14:53:55 Originally by: Miranda Ceres Why aren't you using an alt to web you so that you warp more quickly? Yes because EVERYONE has alts. [EDIT: I failed at sarcasm due to poor spelling]
Mighty Dread Minmatar	Posted - 2007.04.15 15:11:00 - [19] If you ask me CONCORD should enforce a 10-15K clear zone around the undocking area of stations. Furthermore ships should be ejected from stations with enough room to warp without being caught on the station's pseudo hit detection area thus creating that lil dance your ships does as it attempts to warp in vain.
Korizan Oort Cloud Industries	Posted - 2007.04.15 15:11:00 - [20] Edited by: Korizan on 15/04/2007 15:07:50 Create an exit point SS then if you are quick no worries you will be gone before they know it. Directions have been posted many many times now as this is a common thread
Major Stormer Caldari Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.04.15 15:16:00 - [21] BREAKING NEWS: JITA 4-4 IS F*****G BUSY. In other news theres some huge war going on.
Fswd	Posted - 2007.04.15 15:52:00 - [22] Jita + (insert whine here) = bad JuJu --- So I flame and troll when the occasion calls for it. So what are you gonna do about it?
Therin Dracul	Posted - 2007.04.15 16:15:00 - [23] Quote: but the problem is some people stay outside Jita and bump my freighter for fun, this become serious problem and can lock my freighter for hours if I am afk ?
Izzy Pol Fear and Loathing in LoneTrek	Posted - 2007.04.15 16:20:00 - [24] Originally by: Korizan Edited by: Korizan on 15/04/2007 15:07:50 Create an exit point SS then if you are quick no worries you will be gone before they know it. Directions have been posted many many times now as this is a common thread ^^ Hooray for common sense. Then again, so few ppl here have it maybe its "uncommon sense!"
Cryptic Myst Caldari Helium 3	Posted - 2007.04.15 16:44:00 - [25] Originally by: General Mar ...bumping ... Bumping is the poor mans warp scrambler. Nothing wrong with it
Shan Juan Amarr KrayZ Dams Inc. R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.04.15 17:40:00 - [26] Like someone else has already mentioned, Simply select warp to Jita Planet IV @ (x)km. If you are fast enough with your clicks you will insta warp right trough the pile of ships clogging up the undock port before clipping ever kicks in. If you do it wrong redock, try again. My freighter alt has zero problems with that station apart from the odd black screen of nothingness.
Adoro Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.04.15 17:44:00 - [27] Originally by: Ralara bumping is not an exploit, it's perfectly fine. Don't dock in Jita 4-4 then. Dock in another station, and use a hauler to move your stuff. You should have your racial industrial at 5, yes? Shove on cargo expander rigs and as many tech 2 expanders as you can. It may take a few trips to the other station but ... meh. Hi corpthief, Bumping a freighter is considered harrasment and you can recieve a warning for it, ktnx. But ofc you dont care about that and just keep doing it aslong its in your favor right? Exactly what kind of person you are Ralara Adoro > Ralara any time -------- Originally by: Lavinrac Krad You're either one of us or a Minmatar! What about Amarr? Bah, ha ha ha ha, Amarr, lol...
William Hamilton	Posted - 2007.04.15 18:11:00 - [28] Sometimes I think the simplest solution would be to make it so a ship must have atleast 1/10th(?) the mass of the other ship in order to bump it. so capsules can't bump titans...
monkeyduck Mithril Inc Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.04.15 18:20:00 - [29] Originally by: Venkul Mul Yesterday, leaving the station with, again, 600+ person in local, the overview and the space around the station was empty of ships. Even moving some tens of Km from the station, I could not see any ship. Someone other has witnessed this? That's lag. Quite common during larger fleet PvP (surprisingly very akin to Jita 4-4). Seriously though, how hard is it to create more undocking points or jettison ships further (and randomly) around the station when undocking. Perhaps the lag would decrease if people could actually leave the station and system. It can sometimes take a half an hour to warp away from that cluster[you-know-what] in a freighter, more if people are intentionally harassing you.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.15 18:25:00 - [30] Empty Jita AS I have posted above, I am recently finding the area around Jita 4-4 empty, as you can see in the screenshot. Someone know if it is a new feature to avoid black screen deat and bumping? At the time of the screenshot there were 613 people in local, and less than 2 minute before the screenshot there was the usual caothic mass of ships around the station. Then they all disappareaded at the same time. Unless they were all from the same fleet and were aligned for warp (and they weren't) it is not possible to do a similar mass diapparence. Some comment.

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