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Hettar Caldari Huff Technologies Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.15 23:03:00 - [1] this is the third time i've posted on this subject and yet nothing seems to be done about itor seems to be in the planning for it, loot thieves should be agressed to the gang that destoyed the target, i just blew up a CNR with some friends and yet again b4 he even died the loot thieves were already with there over views set for wrecks only, we did all the hard work and had nothing to show for it again I SAY AGAIN MAKE LOOT THIEVES AGRESSED! MAKE IT FAIRER TO THOSE PPL WHO PUT THERE NECK ON THE LINE! ENOUGH SAID. Your signature is too big, 400 x 120 and less then 24kb - Kreul Intentions ([email protected])
St'oto Taurus Inc	Posted - 2007.04.16 00:09:00 - [2] you do know caps keep people away.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.16 07:41:00 - [3] Hatter, be serious, you think 3 times is much? Look the threads about fixing drones, something that touch almost any player of EVE. I think those number in the hundred, and are years old, and still the drones are broken, even more than at the start. So cal down and be very patient. If you are lucky you will see some change in Revelation 2 in summer.
Tressia	Posted - 2007.04.16 09:26:00 - [4] adapt?
Eleana Tomelac Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.16 10:01:00 - [5] It seems that by the Concord Assembly laws, killing someone doesn't give rights on his assets, it remains owned by himself and by extent his corpmates. Thus people are not stealing from you, but from the citizen you just shot down. Concord will not give you mass murder rights on everyone that could steal from your ennemies. Maybe you should declare more wars and give more money to the Concord Assembly to gain such rights. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Flying Vexor and Ishkur, Myrmidon was too slow, got ganked by 3 BC and a Megathron...
Maximillian Power Minmatar WOLFPACK DELTA SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.16 11:33:00 - [6] Originally by: Hettar this is the third time i've posted on this subject and yet nothing seems to be done about itor seems to be in the planning for it, loot thieves should be agressed to the gang that destoyed the target, i just blew up a CNR with some friends and yet again b4 he even died the loot thieves were already with there over views set for wrecks only, we did all the hard work and had nothing to show for it again I SAY AGAIN MAKE LOOT THIEVES AGRESSED! MAKE IT FAIRER TO THOSE PPL WHO PUT THERE NECK ON THE LINE! ENOUGH SAID. No - Quite simply just because you blow something up does not make what's left belong to you. It still belongs to the person you blew up. Its not complicated at all. I don't like it when people steal loot of the person I blew up, but it makes sense that they can and that they are not flagged to me, after all I just blew some poor sod up. Why should I get everything my own way? -------------------------------- So....
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Riggers Incorporated	Posted - 2007.04.16 13:18:00 - [7] Originally by: Maximillian Power Originally by: Hettar this is the third time i've posted on this subject and yet nothing seems to be done about itor seems to be in the planning for it, loot thieves should be agressed to the gang that destoyed the target, i just blew up a CNR with some friends and yet again b4 he even died the loot thieves were already with there over views set for wrecks only, we did all the hard work and had nothing to show for it again I SAY AGAIN MAKE LOOT THIEVES AGRESSED! MAKE IT FAIRER TO THOSE PPL WHO PUT THERE NECK ON THE LINE! ENOUGH SAID. No - Quite simply just because you blow something up does not make what's left belong to you. It still belongs to the person you blew up. Its not complicated at all. I don't like it when people steal loot of the person I blew up, but it makes sense that they can and that they are not flagged to me, after all I just blew some poor sod up. Why should I get everything my own way? Hettar, why don't you read your own threads? I've posted the above answer so many times (so i just quote it this time ), that you should know why it won't change.
Speed Devil Caldari Privateers	Posted - 2007.04.16 13:28:00 - [8] imo its not stealing since we already pay concord for a wardec. There should be dual wreck ownership imo Originally by: Merkanas To people who can't understand: there are rules and there are morals, don't get them confused. If rules allow it and you have no moral objection, by all means... have fun.
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Riggers Incorporated	Posted - 2007.04.16 13:47:00 - [9] Originally by: Speed Devil imo its not stealing since we already pay concord for a wardec. There should be dual wreck ownership imo So if I shoot you in RL and take you wallet, i'm not stealing?? Paying bail from my "new" wallet would really be irony . Its not your can, it didn't come from your ship.
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.04.16 14:53:00 - [10] Absolutely totally agree, i don't like empire war's for this very reason tbfh. Make it so if they nick the wreck, you can blowzor there ass to hell and back, die graverobber die, muahahahahaaaa. Ahem, but seriously, these people that do it are disgusting, lower than ore thieve's imo, kill them all, kill them all to death, clone them and kill them again BoB vs the coalition of family value's

fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.04.16 14:54:00 - [11] Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes Originally by: Speed Devil imo its not stealing since we already pay concord for a wardec. There should be dual wreck ownership imo So if I shoot you in RL and take you wallet, i'm not stealing?? Paying bail from my "new" wallet would really be irony . Its not your can, it didn't come from your ship. That doesn't make sense, if you were at war with someone and you shot them, they would quite often pad the bodie's down for whatever so your point is silly. BoB vs the coalition of family value's
Vasiliyan Gallente Ordnace Research and Development	Posted - 2007.04.16 16:19:00 - [12] If you don't like people stealing from those you kill, don't fight in highly populated highsec systems. --------- Currently offering high-sec POS standings service for 0.5 systems within the Gallente Federation. Evemail me for details.
Lukas Rox Torchwood Industries	Posted - 2007.04.16 17:15:00 - [13] Edited by: Lukas Rox on 16/04/2007 17:13:12 Provided the "loot thieves" are from the same corp that the victim then it's ok for retrieve their mates gear. But loot thieves as in vultures: someone kills and they loot - that is different.. Still, making them killable / global criminal is nonsense: it's not your gear but victim's --- Visit in game for nice items links http://eve.interkam.pl/eveships
Crazy Tasty Beyond Divinity Inc Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.16 19:54:00 - [14] /signed The only solution to this problem that fits in with the rest of Eve (risk vs reward) is either duel wreak ownership or the dead persons wreak is property of the person/corp that killed him. Rish free thieving is a problem that needs to be fixed.
Alpine 69 Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.04.16 20:05:00 - [15] How about just taking a cloaked blockade runner with you? That uncloaks when the victim is no longer a threat, mwd's to the wreck and fetches the loot? Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) Noes not again =(
NightF0x Gallente principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.04.17 01:04:00 - [16] Originally by: Crazy Tasty /signed The only solution to this problem that fits in with the rest of Eve (risk vs reward) is either duel wreak ownership or the dead persons wreak is property of the person/corp that killed him. Rish free thieving is a problem that needs to be fixed. Not true. They are flagged to the rightful owner of the wreck, thus there is risk of them being blown up. You guys really need to learn to adapt. Everyone else has adapted to your play-style, learn to adapt to their's.
Audemed Wraiths Reborn Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.17 06:39:00 - [17] Edited by: Audemed on 17/04/2007 06:36:16 How, exactly, are we supposed to "adapt" to having noobcorp alt destroyers follow us everywhere we go? Look at the hub systems, there's typically 10+ of them outside 4-4 at all times, and there's nothing we can do about it. If smartbombs worked at stations, it wouldn't be an issue, i'd gladly suicide a cruier/BC/BS to get the loot back from the gangs we fight. I personally lost at least 3 T2 ships' fittings worth of gear today alone... Really, blowing up another player ship is no different than an NPC ship, or popping roids. It's our way of making cash, why should they be able to steal form our wrecks without reprecussion? ------ Currently stationed in Iraq, 280 days left to go! http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0701/audzealotiniraq.jpg Sig Linked. Please resize to within 400*120 pixels. E-mail us with any questions. -ReverendM ([email protected])
Vasiliyan Gallente Ordnace Research and Development	Posted - 2007.04.17 09:24:00 - [18] Originally by: Audemed How, exactly, are we supposed to "adapt" to having noobcorp alt destroyers follow us everywhere we go? Look at the hub systems, there's typically 10+ of them outside 4-4 at all times, and there's nothing we can do about it. Adapt by not fighting at 4-4? Originally by: Audemed Really, blowing up another player ship is no different than an NPC ship, or popping roids. It's our way of making cash, why should they be able to steal form our wrecks without reprecussion? It is different: that ship and its items belongs to someone else. (I'm not averse to PvP, but Jita 4-4 is not the place for it) --------- Currently offering high-sec POS standings service for 0.5 systems within the Gallente Federation. Evemail me for details.
Waxau Liberty Rogues Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.04.17 09:39:00 - [19] I know an alt very close to me whos responsible for such things ^^ Its nice getting free stuff just to annoy you >.< (but it might need a change)
NightF0x Gallente principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.04.17 11:18:00 - [20] Originally by: Audemed Edited by: Audemed on 17/04/2007 06:36:16 How, exactly, are we supposed to "adapt" to having noobcorp alt destroyers follow us everywhere we go? Maybe you should focus on killing outside of Jita and not ganking haulers for income. Your corp joined Privateers for fights, you accepted the consequences of loosing your wrecks. Sounds like you need to find a new source of income, other than haulers.

Audemed Wraiths Reborn Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.18 01:35:00 - [21] Why you think it's limited to 4-4 is beyond me, we've had people follow our roving gangs and loot. Also you think it's limited to privateers. This is a problem for ANYONE who has an active wardec, although their combat is admittedly less common and therefore they aren't shadowed as we are. ------ Currently stationed in Iraq, 190 days left to go! PVP in EvE is consentual, you agree to it when you login.
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Riggers Incorporated	Posted - 2007.04.18 10:14:00 - [22] Originally by: fire 59 Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes Originally by: Speed Devil imo its not stealing since we already pay concord for a wardec. There should be dual wreck ownership imo So if I shoot you in RL and take you wallet, i'm not stealing?? Paying bail from my "new" wallet would really be irony . Its not your can, it didn't come from your ship. That doesn't make sense, if you were at war with someone and you shot them, they would quite often pad the bodie's down for whatever so your point is silly. Point being, that in the case where i shoot you, i do pad the body down, but the cops are standing right beside me, doing nothing. A bystander can just as easily pad the body down. In both cases, "we" are stealing from you, the bystander is not stealing from me. Hence the cops will intervene if i try to shoot the bystander.
Speed Devil Caldari Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.18 11:48:00 - [23] Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes Originally by: fire 59 Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes Originally by: Speed Devil imo its not stealing since we already pay concord for a wardec. There should be dual wreck ownership imo So if I shoot you in RL and take you wallet, i'm not stealing?? Paying bail from my "new" wallet would really be irony . Its not your can, it didn't come from your ship. That doesn't make sense, if you were at war with someone and you shot them, they would quite often pad the bodie's down for whatever so your point is silly. Point being, that in the case where i shoot you, i do pad the body down, but the cops are standing right beside me, doing nothing. A bystander can just as easily pad the body down. In both cases, "we" are stealing from you, the bystander is not stealing from me. Hence the cops will intervene if i try to shoot the bystander. the cops would not intervene if you shoot the walletthief, since the thief is a witness that u bribed the cops to shoot that guy. that thief could get both cops in jail for not arresting the guy that just committed murder... Originally by: Merkanas To people who can't understand: there are rules and there are morals, don't get them confused. If rules allow it and you have no moral objection, by all means... have fun.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.18 14:35:00 - [24] Originally by: fire 59 Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes Originally by: Speed Devil imo its not stealing since we already pay concord for a wardec. There should be dual wreck ownership imo So if I shoot you in RL and take you wallet, i'm not stealing?? Paying bail from my "new" wallet would really be irony . Its not your can, it didn't come from your ship. That doesn't make sense, if you were at war with someone and you shot them, they would quite often pad the bodie's down for whatever so your point is silly. I really hope you aren't in the army. That will get you court martialled. True, most officials will turn a blind eye on this behavior, but it is illegal and punished by the militar law.
Ravenowl Caldari Kingfisher Industries	Posted - 2007.04.18 22:54:00 - [25] Edited by: Ravenowl on 18/04/2007 22:52:14 Sorry but if I undock on top of a wreck.. im going to loot it. Which actually happened in a remote empire system. There was no way I knew the wreck was there. There was no way I knew that it was trying to dock when it popped. So yes there was someone else out there. How am I to know who popped the wreck in the first place. If I asked in local, well absolutely everyone would say its theirs. So I am going to loot the wreck. It was fate that I happened to be at the right spot at the right time. I was actually undocking to go mission, but why mission when I can loot and get a lot of isk by simply winning the lottery. I looted and redocked and sold the stuff and went back to my mission. Made a nice 40mil isk by simlpy undocking at the right time. No one that sees a wreck litteraly 50 meters from them is going to skip a chance to see whats inside. on Adapting.. here is a solution I havent seen. Self destruct your on ship and leave something in it. Then get into something and pop whoever steals from it. I would still look and see whats in the wreck, and if its worth the risk of getting my own ship popped so be it. Everyone seems to be forgetting that there is risk in the looters that do this. I dont really count myself as that because it just happened to be the right time to undock, its not like I was looking to steal from someone at that moment like ore theifs do. I took the oportunity and made isk on it. so in summary. Why should I not loot the ship? Im taking the chance of popping a ship worth a whole lot more then what im getting out of the deal. But thats the chance I take. The person I looted docked, and maybe got into another ship. If he/she would have undocked .. they would have the stuff and not me.
Auron Shadowbane	Posted - 2007.04.19 08:07:00 - [26] simply: no. if you want to pvp in empire, loot thiefes are the price you have to pay for 1000s of fuel-free stations and targets. if you dont like loot thiefes grow a pair and go nullsec.
Speed Devil Caldari Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.19 14:23:00 - [27] isnt it strange... with the orethieving all carebears whined about it, that they couldnt take revenge... nobody was against the idea that miners should be able to take their ore back. but when privateers ask for dual ownership since we had the most empire wars, then its like OOOOWLA, its a privateer, lets take their well deserved pvp loot just to annoy them because it are really such a bunch of *******s to pvp in empire. they deserve it to get their loot stolen bunch of nubs
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.20 06:53:00 - [28] Originally by: Speed Devil isnt it strange... with the orethieving all carebears whined about it, that they couldnt take revenge... nobody was against the idea that miners should be able to take their ore back. but when privateers ask for dual ownership since we had the most empire wars, then its like OOOOWLA, its a privateer, lets take their well deserved pvp loot just to annoy them because it are really such a bunch of *******s to pvp in empire. they deserve it to get their loot stolen bunch of nubs Sigh, seem you don't read the most basic reply and don't think abouth it. Dual ownership require a change in code in all EVE. You have started asking for it in the last months, it will be implemented in some year. BTW it is similar to the request from miners about ore ownership and can flipping, and it was never even considered by CCP.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.20 07:52:00 - [29] To give a somewath useful reply: a partial solution that can be implemented reasonably fast is to give a security standing hit to people thieving from can/wrecks not belonmging to players against whom they have war rights, kill rights or aggro. So a player shooting someone in low sec get the hit for the attack, but then can loot the can without other sec loss, a player with war right can do that everywere and a miner gettin back his ore will not lose standing. The people looting war wrecks without being in the war, or the jet can thiefs instead will get a sec standing hit. This will damp a little the thieving from wrecks and the ore thieving without completly cancelling them. The advantage of this solution is that it seem easy to implement and will unite high sec warriors to miners in the request, so getting a better chance to be heard by CCP.
Blue Pixie	Posted - 2007.04.20 15:58:00 - [30] I've seen it all. A Privateer complaining EVE isn't fair? That's rich.



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