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Adiman Lutua
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2017.01.15 15:10:20 -
[1] - Quote
Relatively new to eve, three weeks or so. First post here in the forum....
I'm trading in a few high and low volume items at the moment. items i have a healthy markup on and I'm making good isk,
In one item there's a very robust turnover in terms of volume. and a good few of us in the niche doing the .01 isk thing just to take a stable profit.
Then someone comes in and dumps a s**tload of new stock on it at market -20% taking a lot of the creamm off the top of the trade. I mean he dumps like a 5day supply of the stuff. so we have to follow him down and keep bumping along the the .01 isk because the volume trading isn't going to change massively from what I can see, so this guy is going to have to follow us down the same road.
Nope another trader comes in and takes another 20% off the market sell price and another buyer jacks up the buy side by 30% severely tightening the donchian burger.
Either way the traders that were trading these items are still there doing the .01 isk thing
So the only real thing thats happened is these guys that made huge bites have done is wipe out profit for themselves??????? they still have to do the same amount of updating to keep their price at the top, maybe not so much on the buy side with region buy orders but you get my drift.
Why does that happen? I mean, I'm staying in because I'm still making a healthy profit after the adjustment in prices.... |
Adiman Lutua
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2017.01.15 15:13:26 -
[2] - Quote
upon reflection.
Do guys who use a lot of this consumable use their stockpiles to drive down prices so they can hoover up our stock for consumption or hoarding? |
Adiman Lutua
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2017.01.15 15:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
i've found the answer on reddit. that was quick..... |
Cista2
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
283
|
Posted - 2017.01.15 15:55:58 -
[4] - Quote
THE answer?
I am sure we would all like to hear that :)
My channel: "Signatures"
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Rykker Bow
The Scope
237
|
Posted - 2017.01.15 18:21:34 -
[5] - Quote
THE answer is always 42. THE answer to life the universe and everything.
The Mjolnir Bloc - Lowsec PvP for the sophisticated -
The Mjolnir Bloc Killboards
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Investor Joe
Litla Sundlaugin
31
|
Posted - 2017.01.15 19:32:50 -
[6] - Quote
it's almost always just idiots tbh
very rarely will there be an actual good reason for this sort of stuff |
Luthor Ikkala
State War Academy
Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2017.01.15 19:42:37 -
[7] - Quote
Ive done it few times with items gathered around the galaxy. On those cases i undercut the price about 20% and hope someone buys all my stuff to keep the profit margin as high as possible. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt |
Adiman Lutua
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2017.01.15 19:45:04 -
[8] - Quote
i've done that as well when it's a smallish volume relative to the day volume buy it up and hope for the profit on the flip. this guy dumped 5-7days worth of trade on it. so no moving around that wall, either come down in price or ????? |
Zaha Koto
State War Academy
Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2017.01.15 21:02:54 -
[9] - Quote
Making peoples trading experience unpleasant by any means available is an accepted tactic to persuade people to go trade somewhere else |
Adiman Lutua
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2017.01.15 21:46:08 -
[10] - Quote
not unpleasant per se. i'm still making 300% roi at the lower price. preferred the 500% ROI to be honest :)
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Seer Profitus
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
9
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Posted - 2017.01.16 04:51:18 -
[11] - Quote
Sometimes I do it just to troll other traders. It feels good knowing you've ruined everyone's day.
May the market bless you and keep you;
May the market make its opportunities shine upon you and be profitable to you;
May the market lift up its margins upon you and grant you ISK.
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Luthor Ikkala
State War Academy
Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2017.01.16 10:19:25 -
[12] - Quote
Im just a small time trader so i have the patience to wait for the good margins and atm i only sell stuff i produce myself. And most times i dont produce anything that doesnt have a chance to make me 100-300% profit. On some items you'll just have to wait for the price to come to you |
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
446
|
Posted - 2017.01.16 10:55:11 -
[13] - Quote
Adiman Lutua wrote:Relatively new to eve, three weeks or so. First post here in the forum....
Then someone comes in and dumps a s**tload of new stock on it at market -20% taking a lot of the creamm off the top of the trade. I mean he dumps like a 5day supply of the stuff. so we have to follow him down and keep bumping along the the .01 isk because the volume trading isn't going to change massively from what I can see, so this guy is going to have to follow us down the same road.
Nope another trader comes in and takes another 20% off the market sell price and another buyer jacks up the buy side by 30% severely tightening the donchian burger.
Either way the traders that were trading these items are still there doing the .01 isk thing
So the only real thing thats happened is these guys that made huge bites have done is wipe out profit for themselves??????? they still have to do the same amount of updating to keep their price at the top, maybe not so much on the buy side with region buy orders but you get my drift.
Why does that happen? I mean, I'm staying in because I'm still making a healthy profit after the adjustment in prices....
Hey
It is awesome to dump in the 5 days volume in your market, then you follow, then on second drop I can buy out the whole market and have stock to crash the market on a later date on your cost :D.
Besides that, I never 0.01 isk. Just ride the market, just monitor someone does not relist just under your bulk order, that is annoying. Then it is time to do a dump from old stock until he / she lowers enough. Then do a buyout again. Repeat.
Also, hedge dumps with buy orders.
;)
"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X
"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron
-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
6616
|
Posted - 2017.01.16 20:43:04 -
[14] - Quote
When someone dumps on the market ... just ignore it.
Unless you are in some hurry to cash-out, the market will right itself eventually.
If it is a new sustained low, then you might want to adjust your sell price. These tend to be gradual (baring patch speculation). |
Matthias Ancaladron
Wrath of Angels
77
|
Posted - 2017.01.17 12:09:09 -
[15] - Quote
How do you know its not someone who just happened to gather all that stuff up mining or looting or whatever and hauled it somewhere to sell it quickly and get rid of it to go back to what they were doing. |
Matthias Khenakhtre
Wrath of Angels
113
|
Posted - 2017.01.17 12:09:09 -
[16] - Quote
How do you know its not someone who just happened to gather all that stuff up mining or looting or whatever and hauled it somewhere to sell it quickly and get rid of it to go back to what they were doing. |
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
446
|
Posted - 2017.01.19 01:43:34 -
[17] - Quote
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:How do you know its not someone who just happened to gather all that stuff up mining or looting or whatever and hauled it somewhere to sell it quickly and get rid of it to go back to what they were doing.
Check the daily volume graphs on the most popular trade hubs and sites like EVE markets* . If the volume in the market is suddenly changing (or turnover in ISK in the market) it most probably will be speculating and not someone shipping just a stack in. The stack will be a dent on daily volume in New Eden most of the time. Or a speculator will buy it for later stock.
* Set the table to a 180 day view and see where large quantities entered or left the market, Antimatter S as example, it is a volume market in EVE.
"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X
"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron
-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
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Veyreuth
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
7
|
Posted - 2017.02.09 18:01:06 -
[18] - Quote
Adiman Lutua wrote: the niche doing the .01 isk thing just to take a stable profit.
The .01 isk thing is great if you're a trader who wants to maximize ROI.
The person who "wins" the .01 game is the person who can relist the most. If you're not completely focused on trading, you usually don't turn stock over fast enough to be worth trading for profit vs. other ways of making ISK.
Undercuts have lots of uses when it comes to the game theory of the market...
One poster mentioned they take those undercuts as opportunity to "stock up". Many people who make that big undercut are saying, "Please, take my stuff, because liquidating these assets is more important to me than maximizing the return on these items." Liquidity is important... that liquid ISK could be a new construction project or a new ship that would bring in more ISK in the short run than maximizing return. It's also important for people who live in nullsec or wormholes to be able to liquidate rather than play market games as they aren't easily able to babysit their market orders without extra effort.
There are some items that I list and I can get undercut by .01 4 or 5 times in a 10 minute period. When you have a large number of players aggressively trying to be the lowest price by .01, frequently making large undercuts sends a signal for them to back off their aggression. When they see their margins take a beating every time they relist by .01, they learn pretty quick not to relist so fast. It's a useful tool.
Sometimes I use the big undercut as a way to "shake up" a market. People can get used to certain cycles. The big undercut disrupts those cycles. It causes some people to leave, some to panic, some to be patient. No matter which way things go, there sometimes opens up ways to profit among the disruption. I'll especially want to shake things up if I'm a new entrant to a certain market... it gives me an opportunity to observe the reactions of competitors.
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
3429
|
Posted - 2017.02.09 20:22:17 -
[19] - Quote
All the mentioned above ... impatience and wholesalers (big producers) are the most popular reasons imo.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger
Northern Coalition.
1909
|
Posted - 2017.02.09 21:44:24 -
[20] - Quote
it's simply not true that "all traders" follow the 0.01 isking.
if i want ot sell my stuff quick, i undercut agressively. that way i can often sell in a day what would otherwise have taken me a week to get rid of.
that frees my money for another activity that can get me additional profit in that week.
i also often trade outside of jita. if some random scrublord moves in to make use of the established market with healthy 30% margin compared to jita i agressively drive him out of business by going right to production price +5% or so. If he starts buying my stock i simply flood the market with more than he can swallow just to make a statement. I don't even mind going to production price or even lower. i want him gone and i'm willing to pay for that.
i had someone try to enter the rig market in a lowsec pvp hub once. he stopped once i made sellorders that could have supplied jita for a week or longer.
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Royce Catton
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2017.02.10 01:10:06 -
[21] - Quote
I love it when they do that, free stock(in speculating you'll be able to turn over the stock), granted you'll have a lower profit margin. But I normally wait for some champ to come along and post a large supply at low price or wait for multiple people to do it. Then proceed to buy out the whole market and drive the price up and then list my reserves. I guess depending on the item you may need a lot of capital to counter like that. |
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
452
|
Posted - 2017.02.10 04:15:45 -
[22] - Quote
Royce Catton wrote:I love it when they do that, free stock(in speculating you'll be able to turn over the stock), granted you'll have a lower profit margin. But I normally wait for some champ to come along and post a large supply at low price or wait for multiple people to do it. Then proceed to buy out the whole market and drive the price up and then list my reserves. I guess depending on the item you may need a lot of capital to counter like that.
Love it when someone else starts speculating in a market that I am stepping out of :D
"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X
"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron
-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
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Catalytic morphisis
Diamond Dogz.
131
|
Posted - 2017.02.20 19:01:40 -
[23] - Quote
Adiman Lutua wrote:not unpleasant per se. i'm still making 300% roi at the lower price. preferred the 500% ROI to be honest :)
Thats why they're doing it, If you're getting a 300% ROI Chances are so are they, and they're doing it for quick turnover of goods to make maximum profit over time, rather than waiting on a higher singular profit margin
Actual Link free and scout free solo PvP'er
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Kaivarian Coste
Stellar Supply
110
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Posted - 2017.02.20 20:32:01 -
[24] - Quote
I've found this the case when local manufacturers can't be ****** hauling their goods to Jita, and just dump their goods locally at Jita prices. A sale's a sale, whether at Jita or someplace else. |
Jack Cavanaugh
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
27
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Posted - 2017.02.21 02:02:37 -
[25] - Quote
Adiman Lutua wrote:So the only real thing thats happened is these guys that made huge bites have done is wipe out profit for themselves???????
How do you know they are losing money? |
Alice Wonders
Acadia Investment Group
4
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 01:42:14 -
[26] - Quote
Adiman Lutua wrote:
So the only real thing thats happened is these guys that made huge bites have done is wipe out profit for themselves???????
Not at all. It sounds like you have a very narrow view due to being only involved in the trading side and not in the production side of things.
Producers need to turn over their products qiuckly so that they can obtain more materials for production. For producers its about throughput speed.
Think of it this way. Why would I want to spend days 1isk trading for a 300% ROI when I could get a 10% ROI every hour by dumping? Its not the amount of ROI, its the speed that the ROI can be rolled back into the process for exponential growth.
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Syds Sinclair
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
276
|
Posted - 2017.03.01 04:54:56 -
[27] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:When someone dumps on the market ... just ignore it.
Unless you are in some hurry to cash-out, the market will right itself eventually.
If it is a new sustained low, then you might want to adjust your sell price. These tend to be gradual (baring patch speculation).
..Tau, you are usually spot on, but I couldn't disagree with you more on this one.
When trading, your object is to turn your money over quickly. Having ISK stagnate while waiting for the price that you are accustomed to to return is not turning your money over quickly. Your ISK could be making ISK in different markets instead of being tied up.
OP, few possible answers. Other traders pushing out competition. Someone liquidating a stockpile of completed production jobs. Or just buffoons being buffoons. |
Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
32
|
Posted - 2017.03.01 15:40:10 -
[28] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:it's simply not true that "all traders" follow the 0.01 isking.
if i want ot sell my stuff quick, i undercut agressively. that way i can often sell in a day what would otherwise have taken me a week to get rid of.
that frees my money for another activity that can get me additional profit in that week.
i also often trade outside of jita. if some random scrublord moves in to make use of the established market with healthy 30% margin compared to jita i agressively drive him out of business by going right to production price +5% or so. If he starts buying my stock i simply flood the market with more than he can swallow just to make a statement. I don't even mind going to production price or even lower. i want him gone and i'm willing to pay for that.
i had someone try to enter the rig market in a lowsec pvp hub once. he stopped once i made sellorders that could have supplied jita for a week or longer.
I don't think this actually works when done with volume.
If you're dumping a weeks worth of volume and it's at a price where I'm still going to make a profit, I'm going to change my price to get ahead of you in line. It doesn't matter if it's a .1 isk change, a 5 isk change or a 1 million isk change.
It's one thing if you're putting a small amount up... I'll wait for it to clear. But I'm not going to wait a week to get revenue from the product again if I can still get good profit while lowering my price.
Profits that are realized quickly allow for reinvestment and more profits. Sitting on a product for several weeks is rarely the right call. |
Syds Sinclair
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
276
|
Posted - 2017.03.01 18:45:51 -
[29] - Quote
Scialt wrote:
I don't think this actually works when done with volume.
If you're dumping a weeks worth of volume and it's at a price where I'm still going to make a profit, I'm going to change my price to get ahead of you in line. It doesn't matter if it's a .1 isk change, a 5 isk change or a 1 million isk change.
It's one thing if you're putting a small amount up... I'll wait for it to clear. But I'm not going to wait a week to get revenue from the product again if I can still get good profit while lowering my price.
Profits that are realized quickly allow for reinvestment and more profits. Sitting on a product for several weeks is rarely the right call.
..Exactly this. Your making less ISK on X but your turned more Y's over by getting rid of your product. |
Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
34
|
Posted - 2017.03.01 20:04:41 -
[30] - Quote
Syds Sinclair wrote:Scialt wrote:
I don't think this actually works when done with volume.
If you're dumping a weeks worth of volume and it's at a price where I'm still going to make a profit, I'm going to change my price to get ahead of you in line. It doesn't matter if it's a .1 isk change, a 5 isk change or a 1 million isk change.
It's one thing if you're putting a small amount up... I'll wait for it to clear. But I'm not going to wait a week to get revenue from the product again if I can still get good profit while lowering my price.
Profits that are realized quickly allow for reinvestment and more profits. Sitting on a product for several weeks is rarely the right call.
..Exactly this. Your making less ISK on X but your turned more Y's over by getting rid of your product.
I had a discussion on the help channel a month ago with someone about this very topic. He was talking about how he drove prices down so people would follow him and then he'd gobble up the inventory from sell orders and push the price back to where it was.
I kept telling him that I loved that he did that for me. The example I gave was that if there was 50 million in profit to be had on each sell order I put up and he drove it down to 25 million in profit... but allowed me to cycle through 5 sell orders in the time normal market activity would allow me to go through one.... I'd have 125 million in profit and he'd have the other 125 million in profit... that he'd have sitting in inventory until he managed to sell it all off.
It's not total profit that matters on trading... it's profit per unit of time (hour/day/month/whatever you care to measure by). |
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Syds Sinclair
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
276
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Posted - 2017.03.02 04:54:10 -
[31] - Quote
[quote=Scialt]Quality post.(/quote]
..Absolutely. It really shouldn't be that hard of a concept to grasp.
The market doesn't care if you were making 100m / transaction on your Widgets yesterday, the price today is 50m / transactions. Someone is going to make that ISK, the person at the front of the line. Are you going to be at the front happy about your 50m / transaction, or at the end of the line waiting for the "correct" price to come back. |
Raven Ship
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
15
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Posted - 2017.03.02 05:49:56 -
[32] - Quote
From my own experience and practice, there is shitload of bots on market, and they all have sefty margins set so that people would not rip them off.
So if I only see some of those 0.01isk, then will buy one unit from him to find out about his name, then make sure it is well reported as bot all over place.
After that, usually filling all buy orders, and setting huge stock of sell orders, at price generating loss for them, as lesson for those bot owners to stay away. |
Syds Sinclair
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
276
|
Posted - 2017.03.02 06:13:39 -
[33] - Quote
Raven Ship wrote:From my own experience and practice, there is shitload of bots on market, and they all have sefty margins set so that people would not rip them off.
So if I only see some of those 0.01isk, then will buy one unit from him to find out about his name, then make sure it is well reported as bot all over place.
After that, usually filling all buy orders, and setting huge stock of sell orders, at price generating loss for them, as lesson for those bot owners to stay away.
..Not sure if a troll post or not, but I'll bite.
I don't think there's as many bots as people claim. CCP is good with banning bots, and I don't know any trader that would take that chance with their ISK, especially when you consider how easy it is to make ISK on the market.
The thing is, good trading and bot activity look very similar.
GÖá Sinclair Consulting GÖá
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Raven Ship
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
15
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Posted - 2017.03.02 06:30:14 -
[34] - Quote
Syds Sinclair wrote:
The thing is, good trading and bot activity look very similar.
If it behave like bot, is it look like bot, if it smell like one, it is a bot, so pass over this no bot propaganda.
One thing I learned by years, is that those who use them, will negate there existence for most part.
And there are some simple and easy ways to find bots, first use google, and search for images,
that will give you a clue about what to expect from market bot, then on field you operate, make sure you see time to expire of orders present, this time do refresh each time price is changed, and in fixed values, 3months, month, and so on,
then before setting your sell order print screen market view, that is if you can't remember it,
next if any of those hurly inactive orders get updated by 0.01 below your order, go down with random number, like 54 644 378 788
another update of 0.01-10isk is confirmation of bot, as no human will bother to type it that precise.
Then as said earlier, screw this bot owner income. |
Syds Sinclair
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
276
|
Posted - 2017.03.02 06:42:54 -
[35] - Quote
Raven Ship wrote:Lots of stuff, mostly inaccurate
Alright. Keep fighting the good fight brother!
GÖá Sinclair Consulting GÖá
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Raven Ship
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
15
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Posted - 2017.03.02 06:55:48 -
[36] - Quote
Syds Sinclair wrote:Raven Ship wrote:Lots of stuff, mostly inaccurate Alright. Keep fighting the good fight brother!
Advocating for non existence of bots will not work.
Or are you mad as your bots are exposed...
Anyway two steps check always work, let right click bot report shine now. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
5952
|
Posted - 2017.03.02 08:17:49 -
[37] - Quote
Raven Ship wrote:Syds Sinclair wrote:
The thing is, good trading and bot activity look very similar.
If it behave like bot, is it look like bot, if it smell like one, it is a bot, so pass over this no bot propaganda. One thing I learned by years, is that those who use them, will negate there existence for most part. And there are some simple and easy ways to find bots, first use google, and search for images, that will give you a clue about what to expect from market bot, then on field you operate, make sure you see time to expire of orders present, this time do refresh each time price is changed, and in fixed values, 3months, month, and so on, then before setting your sell order print screen market view, that is if you can't remember it, next if any of those hurly inactive orders get updated by 0.01 below your order, go down with random number, like 54 644 378 788 another update of 0.01-10isk is confirmation of bot, as no human will bother to type it that precise. Then as said earlier, screw this bot owner income.
Please do this to my orders.
I frequently type in the random number and manually 0.01 it, or 10.01 it.
If I get a sense that you think I am a bot, I can and will fight your tactics here.
(PS - market bots exist, they are rare, and the ones that last are too well programmed to be defeated by what you suggest here; the bad ones go broke and/or get caught and banned fast)
I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
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Bentley Goodfriend
Honest Bentley and Associates
1
|
Posted - 2017.03.02 08:25:46 -
[38] - Quote
Raven Ship wrote:
next if any of those hurly inactive orders get updated by 0.01 below your order, go down with random number, like 54 644 378 788
another update of 0.01-10isk is confirmation of bot, as no human will bother to type it that precise.
That is some fine exact science right there |
Ria Nieyli
50239
|
Posted - 2017.03.02 08:31:16 -
[39] - Quote
Raven Ship wrote:Syds Sinclair wrote:
The thing is, good trading and bot activity look very similar.
If it behave like bot, is it look like bot, if it smell like one, it is a bot, so pass over this no bot propaganda. One thing I learned by years, is that those who use them, will negate there existence for most part. And there are some simple and easy ways to find bots, first use google, and search for images, that will give you a clue about what to expect from market bot, then on field you operate, make sure you see time to expire of orders present, this time do refresh each time price is changed, and in fixed values, 3months, month, and so on, then before setting your sell order print screen market view, that is if you can't remember it, next if any of those hurly inactive orders get updated by 0.01 below your order, go down with random number, like 54 644 378 788 another update of 0.01-10isk is confirmation of bot, as no human will bother to type it that precise. Then as said earlier, screw this bot owner income.
I type it out precise when I want to. And people have done what you outlined in your previous post to me. Am not a bot.
Then again, I'd probably fail the Turing test, but whatever. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
5953
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Posted - 2017.03.02 08:48:19 -
[40] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Then again, I'd probably fail the Turing test, but whatever.
#StringTableError
I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
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Bentley Goodfriend
Honest Bentley and Associates
1
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Posted - 2017.03.02 08:49:10 -
[41] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Please do this to my orders.
I frequently type in the random number and manually 0.01 it, or 10.01 it.
If I get a sense that you think I am a bot, I can and will fight your tactics here.
(PS - market bots exist, they are rare, and the ones that last are too well programmed to be defeated by what you suggest here; the bad ones go broke and/or get caught and banned fast)
Kindly stop applying logic, it make bot hunters very confused :-p |
Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
37
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Posted - 2017.03.02 13:54:20 -
[42] - Quote
Raven Ship wrote:Syds Sinclair wrote:
The thing is, good trading and bot activity look very similar.
If it behave like bot, is it look like bot, if it smell like one, it is a bot, so pass over this no bot propaganda. One thing I learned by years, is that those who use them, will negate there existence for most part. And there are some simple and easy ways to find bots, first use google, and search for images, that will give you a clue about what to expect from market bot, then on field you operate, make sure you see time to expire of orders present, this time do refresh each time price is changed, and in fixed values, 3months, month, and so on, then before setting your sell order print screen market view, that is if you can't remember it, next if any of those hurly inactive orders get updated by 0.01 below your order, go down with random number, like 54 644 378 788 another update of 0.01-10isk is confirmation of bot, as no human will bother to type it that precise. Then as said earlier, screw this bot owner income.
When I'm on and actively station trading as opposed to doing something else... I act exactly like a bot.
I cycle through orders, updating by .01 when I see that I'm not at the top.
It doesn't matter if you drop the price .01 isk or 153.32 isk. I'm going to get to the front by the smallest amount to put me in front. I'm always precise to the .01 isk level as well... why wouldn't I be?
If I'm semi-actively trading (perhaps while doing something on another toon or surfing the internet or watching netflix)... I'm slower. And obviously I'm not updating while I'm not logged in/asleep. But I believe a lot of stuff you view as bot behavior is just what traders do who are actively trading. Why would I leave isk on the table by NOT .01 isking to get in front? Why would I want to increase the decrease in sell price or increase the buy price (and lower my margins) more than I have to? |
Eleonora Skye
Sushi Corp
6
|
Posted - 2017.03.02 17:28:13 -
[43] - Quote
Raven Ship wrote:
Next if any of those hurly inactive orders get updated by 0.01 below your order, go down with random number, like 54 644 378 788
another update of 0.01-10isk is confirmation of bot, as no human will bother to type it that precise.
Then as said earlier, screw this bot owner income.
What if they don't have to type but just copy / paste ? |
Syds Sinclair
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
276
|
Posted - 2017.03.02 20:15:09 -
[44] - Quote
Scialt wrote:Raven Ship wrote:Syds Sinclair wrote:
The thing is, good trading and bot activity look very similar.
If it behave like bot, is it look like bot, if it smell like one, it is a bot, so pass over this no bot propaganda. One thing I learned by years, is that those who use them, will negate there existence for most part. And there are some simple and easy ways to find bots, first use google, and search for images, that will give you a clue about what to expect from market bot, then on field you operate, make sure you see time to expire of orders present, this time do refresh each time price is changed, and in fixed values, 3months, month, and so on, then before setting your sell order print screen market view, that is if you can't remember it, next if any of those hurly inactive orders get updated by 0.01 below your order, go down with random number, like 54 644 378 788 another update of 0.01-10isk is confirmation of bot, as no human will bother to type it that precise. Then as said earlier, screw this bot owner income. When I'm on and actively station trading as opposed to doing something else... I act exactly like a bot. I cycle through orders, updating by .01 when I see that I'm not at the top. It doesn't matter if you drop the price .01 isk or 153.32 isk. I'm going to get to the front by the smallest amount to put me in front. I'm always precise to the .01 isk level as well... why wouldn't I be? If I'm semi-actively trading (perhaps while doing something on another toon or surfing the internet or watching netflix)... I'm slower. And obviously I'm not updating while I'm not logged in/asleep. But I believe a lot of stuff you view as bot behavior is just what traders do who are actively trading. Why would I leave isk on the table by NOT .01 isking to get in front? Why would I want to increase the decrease in sell price or increase the buy price (and lower my margins) more than I have to?
..You just might be my long lost twin.
GÖá Sinclair Consulting GÖá
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Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
402
|
Posted - 2017.03.03 07:28:37 -
[45] - Quote
I undercut what I sell, and ive also caused a collapse on things like ice just by dropping 100 cubes on the market and watching everyone .01 isk down from 100k to 50k isk. a lot of your .01s are also bots because they do it way to quick.
post a sale, market refreshes, see several orders now .01 isk under yours
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
38
|
Posted - 2017.03.03 15:33:28 -
[46] - Quote
Agondray wrote:I undercut what I sell, and ive also caused a collapse on things like ice just by dropping 100 cubes on the market and watching everyone .01 isk down from 100k to 50k isk. a lot of your .01s are also bots because they do it way to quick.
post a sale, market refreshes, see several orders now .01 isk under yours
Look, when I am trading actively (or even semi-actively while watching TV), I cycle through my orders and adjust so I'm at the top. If there are 10 other people in the same hub doing the same thing... it's going to look like a bot to you.
I've gone head to head with people dropping prices by .01 isk for half an hour before. I realize I hit another active trader... wait a couple of hours and adjust the price... and it sticks for a while. Why? Because that guy is not active trading anymore. I guess the guy could have "logged his bot off"... but if you're afk anyway while letting a bot trade for you I don't see why you wouldn't let it keep going.
We've all run into times where we get topped (either by .01 isk or by greater amounts) very quickly. The thing is... it doesn't always happen. And if it's not happening 100% of the time... it's probably not a bot. The whole point of botting would be for it to happen all the time... not just when you're paying attention to it. If it's only happening for a few hours at a time for a given order... it's likely a real person. |
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
504
|
Posted - 2017.03.03 23:09:05 -
[47] - Quote
Adiman Lutua wrote:Then someone comes in and dumps a s**tload of new stock on it at market -20% taking a lot of the creamm off the top of the trade. I mean he dumps like a 5day supply of the stuff. so we have to follow him down and keep bumping along the the .01 isk because the volume trading isn't going to change massively from what I can see, so this guy is going to have to follow us down the same road.
There's your mistake. He won't follow you. He's posted his order, he'll take a peek at the market once every day or so just to make sure things are progressing as planned. There's nothing left to do except wait for his order to trickle through.
You and your 0.01ing competitors have a little bit of stock still riding on this trade that this new trader has just ruined for you. He fully expects you to keep trading at the new lower level to sell off your remaining stock, but then he expects you to walk away, hoping to find another wide margin item to trade.
If he's wrong and the 0.01ers don't clear out, he'll make the margin even smaller. The game essentially becomes a game of wills: Who is more sure they're buying/selling for the best price?
<^.^> I'm a cat lol
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Syds Sinclair
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
278
|
Posted - 2017.03.04 00:52:11 -
[48] - Quote
Agondray wrote:I undercut what I sell, and ive also caused a collapse on things like ice just by dropping 100 cubes on the market and watching everyone .01 isk down from 100k to 50k isk. a lot of your .01s are also bots because they do it way to quick.
post a sale, market refreshes, see several orders now .01 isk under yours
..Yes, that's true. Sometimes it's near impossible to be the top order, because a lot of other pilots are trading that item. Now you are ready to diversify. So what if you can't stay top order in product x? You're trading with 100 different items.
GÖá Sinclair Consulting GÖá
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x-Matarka-x
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 08:10:20 -
[49] - Quote
Syds Sinclair wrote:Agondray wrote:I undercut what I sell, and ive also caused a collapse on things like ice just by dropping 100 cubes on the market and watching everyone .01 isk down from 100k to 50k isk. a lot of your .01s are also bots because they do it way to quick.
post a sale, market refreshes, see several orders now .01 isk under yours ..Yes, that's true. Sometimes it's near impossible to be the top order, because a lot of other pilots are trading that item. Now you are ready to diversify. So what if you can't stay top order in product x? You're trading with 100 different items.
a lot of other BOTS... |
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